80 réponses à ce sujet

[golyoscsapagy]

hihey54 wrote...
I have already stated what my idea of "beast" is.
I do believe the Talon to be a good heavy pistol (on gold).
I don't believe it to be a beast (on gold).
I do believe there are many weapons which outperform the Talon (on gold).

Look, when I find a new gun I usually use it a couple of times to test its effectiveness, especially with ultra-rares, regardless of the opinions people share on the Bioware Social Network. I usually repeat this after each buff a weapon receives.
And, for the time being, I see NO POINT in choosing the Talon over my Carnifex X or my Phalanx VII on my power-based characters. And the same goes for my Valiant on my Infiltrators.

I am sure that there are people who like this gun and believe that it is better than the aforementioned weapons. BUT I do not share the same opinion at all. I am sorry.

There is one huge boon of talon you completely miss (and will never find it out with funky math as well).

Do the following experiment. Start a gold match. Run around like mad (um, as you would do with a shotgun). Run into a group of enemies hiding behind a corner (can't say you have to try for that real hard).

Start shooting with a carnifex. You die.
Start shooting with a talon. You'll live.

Talon staggers on headshots. The reason I said you're playing it horrible is because you are sniping with it. It's simply retarded. Talon is a shotgun first and foremost which also able to handle sniping if the need arises. Your reasoning is like I would dismiss BW or whichever is the best sniper according to you because I can't run around with it noscoping stuff.

You are trying to judge talon by pusing it into your 'infiltrators should snipe, anyone else playing anything else is stupid and idiot' box. The joke is on you.

[Iodine]

golyoscsapagy wrote...
Talon staggers on headshots. The reason I said you're playing it horrible is because you are sniping with it. It's simply retarded.

Just noting because I happened to look into it a few hours ago - Talon has three possible reactions which ignore shields (can occur even on shielded enemies): Heavy reactions on "short" range headshots, and medium or light reactions on up to medium range chest shots. But yeah, all of its hit reactions only go up to short or medium range, so long range wastes those delightful, life-prolonging staggers.

[hihey54]

golyoscsapagy wrote...
There is one huge boon of talon you completely miss (and will never find it out with funky math as well).

Do the following experiment. Start a gold match. Run around like mad (um, as you would do with a shotgun). Run into a group of enemies hiding behind a corner (can't say you have to try for that real hard).

Start shooting with a carnifex. You die.
Start shooting with a talon. You'll live.

Talon staggers on headshots. The reason I said you're playing it horrible is because you are sniping with it. It's simply retarded. Talon is a shotgun first and foremost which also able to handle sniping if the need arises. Your reasoning is like I would dismiss BW or whichever is the best sniper according to you because I can't run around with it noscoping stuff.

You are trying to judge talon by pusing it into your 'infiltrators should snipe, anyone else playing anything else is stupid and idiot' box. The joke is on you.

Slow down. I wrote about the sniping because somebody said "I could 2 shots troopers from map to map".
(Please note that many weapons stagger on headshots. The Carnifex and the Phalanx being some of those.)
I am judging the Talon for its bad versatility (its weight being a huge drawback).
Just to let you know, I do support the shotty-infiltrator users.

cruc1al wrote...

And, for
the time being, I see NO POINT in choosing the Talon over my Carnifex X
or my Phalanx VII on my power-based characters. And the same goes for my
Valiant on my Infiltrators.

Assuming you have Black
Widow, it's better on an infiltrator, at least if you shoot only
cloaked shots. Valiant's damage output suffers when using it only with
cloaked shots, because a single cloak cycle takes at least 4.4 seconds
or so (according to my experiments; the minimum cloak cooldown of 3
seconds won't initiate immediately as you fire), while Valiant will have
shot three times and reloaded in about 2.3-2.4 seconds.

You have
the possibility of firing six shots in each cloak cycle though - three
cloaked, three uncloaked, extending the cloak cycle to near 5 seconds.
With this method it should beat black widow's 4.7 second 3 shot cloak
cycle (again, according to my experiments).

edit: did some testing, corrected error

Correct. With the reload cancel I can Cloak->ED->3 shots->reload cancel->3 shots->Cloak.
I can even fire 4 shots (tested) while cloaked if the need arises (against brutes for example) with the reload cancel

Modifié par hihey54, 20 avril 2012 - 01:03 .

[cruc1al]

hihey54 wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

And, for
the time being, I see NO POINT in choosing the Talon over my Carnifex X
or my Phalanx VII on my power-based characters. And the same goes for my
Valiant on my Infiltrators.

Assuming you have Black
Widow, it's better on an infiltrator, at least if you shoot only
cloaked shots. Valiant's damage output suffers when using it only with
cloaked shots, because a single cloak cycle takes at least 4.4 seconds
or so (according to my experiments; the minimum cloak cooldown of 3
seconds won't initiate immediately as you fire), while Valiant will have
shot three times and reloaded in about 2.3-2.4 seconds.

You have
the possibility of firing six shots in each cloak cycle though - three
cloaked, three uncloaked, extending the cloak cycle to near 5 seconds.
With this method it should beat black widow's 4.7 second 3 shot cloak
cycle (again, according to my experiments).

edit: did some testing, corrected error

Correct. With the reload cancel I can Cloak->ED->3 shots->reload cancel->3 shots->Cloak.
I can even fire 4 shots (tested) while cloaked if the need arises (against brutes for example) with the reload cancel

Actually, I take it back, I was wrong. Wrote a post in another thread: http://social.biowar...3768/3#11561472

With a Geth Infiltrator maxed for damage output and using Barrel V, Valiant I loses to Black Widow I by about 10% (DPS) even when firing six shots per cloak cycle (3 cloaked, 3 uncloaked).

Modifié par cruc1al, 20 avril 2012 - 01:06 .

[TAO Devil]

I wouldn't know. i don't get nice things.....

[Arilian]

Weapons suck on gold. Powers are way better...

[golyoscsapagy]

hihey54 wrote...
Slow down. I wrote about the sniping because somebody said "I could 2 shots troopers from map to map".
(Please note that many weapons stagger on headshots. The Carnifex and the Phalanx being some of those.)
I am judging the Talon for its bad versatility (its weight being a huge drawback).
Just to let you know, I do support the shotty-infiltrator users.

P/C stagger is not guaranteed (and quite rare if they didn't touch the rate in the last few weeks). Also, those are light staggers. Talon is guaranteed to lock them into a 2s stagger animation giving you ample time to shoot again, reload, come off CD, run away, whatever.

If something is Talon's strong point it's is lightweight, versatile nature. It's one of the lightest shotgun (remember it's 0,7 now - should put you at about 160% without any weight mods) and only a few are able to cover such ranges talon is able to.

I don't use it on infils (like the claymore much better), but it's my gun of choice for engineers/vanguards.

[hihey54]

golyoscsapagy wrote...

hihey54 wrote...
Slow down. I wrote about the sniping because somebody said "I could 2 shots troopers from map to map".
(Please note that many weapons stagger on headshots. The Carnifex and the Phalanx being some of those.)
I am judging the Talon for its bad versatility (its weight being a huge drawback).
Just to let you know, I do support the shotty-infiltrator users.

P/C stagger is not guaranteed (and quite rare if they didn't touch the rate in the last few weeks). Also, those are light staggers. Talon is guaranteed to lock them into a 2s stagger animation giving you ample time to shoot again, reload, come off CD, run away, whatever.

If something is Talon's strong point it's is lightweight, versatile nature. It's one of the lightest shotgun (remember it's 0,7 now - should put you at about 160% without any weight mods) and only a few are able to cover such ranges talon is able to.

I don't use it on infils (like the claymore much better), but it's my gun of choice for engineers/vanguards.

I only have a Talon I, so I refer to it as a 1.25 weight weapon
I did not notice the difference on headshots, though. I will see if it is as good as you are stating. If it is, though, I'll give it a second chance on my engineer.
However, no matter how you put it, I could hardly consider the Talon "beast". 

[A Wild Snorlax]

I tried it for a game now. very unimpressive compared to other shotguns like the claymore, gps, wraith or other pistols like the carnifex/paladin.

Useable maybe, beast, hell no.

[golyoscsapagy]

hihey54 wrote...

I only have a Talon I, so I refer to it as a 1.25 weight weapon
I did not notice the difference on headshots, though. I will see if it is as good as you are stating. If it is, though, I'll give it a second chance on my engineer.
However, no matter how you put it, I could hardly consider the Talon "beast". 

It's pretty much unfair to expect a lvl1 weapon to perform better than a lvl10...

Missile launcher is a beast. The rest are peashooters anyway.

[hihey54]

golyoscsapagy wrote...



It's pretty much unfair to expect a lvl1 weapon to perform better than a lvl10...

You are right. However, the rarity of the Talon has to be taken into account.
For the record, I have been using my Carnifex since it was III, and I was surprised of how well it performed on my AA/HS.

[golyoscsapagy]

hihey54 wrote...
You are right. However, the rarity of the Talon has to be taken into account.
For the record, I have been using my Carnifex since it was III, and I was surprised of how well it performed on my AA/HS.

Then remember this conversation when you pull out talon x eventually, and give it a try. You'll be suprised.

The difference between blue/silver and gold weapons is much higher than it is between gold and black ones. I would think it's intentional and pretty much common design choice (instant gratification for golds to hook you up, giving much less as you reach the finish - all multiplayer games do this).
Can't think I can name one black weapon which I would chose over a lvl10 gold one. About level 3 is the break point where they start to get better.

[SiIencE]

spyro396 wrote...

I prefer the geth plasma shotgun, that just outclasses everything

Don't like it 1 bit, feels.... weird rather, and to be honest shotguns aren't my thing.

[hihey54]

golyoscsapagy wrote...

hihey54 wrote...
You are right. However, the rarity of the Talon has to be taken into account.
For the record, I have been using my Carnifex since it was III, and I was surprised of how well it performed on my AA/HS.

Then remember this conversation when you pull out talon x eventually, and give it a try. You'll be suprised.

The difference between blue/silver and gold weapons is much higher than it is between gold and black ones. I would think it's intentional and pretty much common design choice (instant gratification for golds to hook you up, giving much less as you reach the finish - all multiplayer games do this).
Can't think I can name one black weapon which I would chose over a lvl10 gold one. About level 3 is the break point where they start to get better.

For the record, do you actually own a Talon X?

[RazRei]

Shock n Awe wrote...

hihey54 wrote...

Not on gold

Aww, that's disappointing.  Well, at least when I have to get from 1-17, I can still have fun treating Silver like Bronze.

It is on gold.

[Stardrinker]

I regularly use a Talon II on gold, with a Geth infiltrator specced for accuracy in hunter mode. Scope mod for additional accuracy. The pellet grouping with that setup is insanely tight, making it very effective for long range sniping. With pistol amp III and decent ammo, I can take out a Prime in 2 cloak cycles (3 shots per cycle). Would love to get it up to level X.

I've also noticed that it seems to do insane damage to shields. but I don't really know why.

[lays12]

hihey54 wrote...

Not on gold

I did fine with it on Gold before the buff. I'd usually score on top... albeit, not as many points as I had with my Valiant or BW, but it still did the job...

Put the scope on it and aim for the head.

[Wesus]

Yep its strong, btw u should try out Revenant X with à turian soldier, marksman specced on stab and speed and it blows everything away on gold

[RGFrog]

rofl, wesus, it blows everything away for the 5 seconds you live between revives.

[stribies]

Metal Vile wrote...

So sick of measuring every gun's performance based on the "Sucks on Gold" scale.

80% of the guns suck on gold! Should the whole game only consist of

Carnifex
Paladin
Phalanx
Widow
Black Widow
Valiant
Javelin
Geth Plasma Shotgun
Claymore

Everything works on silver/bronze. Should we base the game around bronze?

[Wesus]

Nah, i did reapers gold last night on condor with 3 mates all equipped with Revenant x as turian soldiers, 1 mate went down 1 time due to banshee instakill

[ryoldschool]

RGFrog wrote...

rofl, wesus, it blows everything away for the 5 seconds you live between revives.

( Re: Revenant X on Turian Soldier ) That was my experience - you have to be in cover.

[stribies]

golyoscsapagy wrote...

hihey54 wrote...
I have already stated what my idea of "beast" is.
I do believe the Talon to be a good heavy pistol (on gold).
I don't believe it to be a beast (on gold).
I do believe there are many weapons which outperform the Talon (on gold).

Look, when I find a new gun I usually use it a couple of times to test its effectiveness, especially with ultra-rares, regardless of the opinions people share on the Bioware Social Network. I usually repeat this after each buff a weapon receives.
And, for the time being, I see NO POINT in choosing the Talon over my Carnifex X or my Phalanx VII on my power-based characters. And the same goes for my Valiant on my Infiltrators.

I am sure that there are people who like this gun and believe that it is better than the aforementioned weapons. BUT I do not share the same opinion at all. I am sorry.

There is one huge boon of talon you completely miss (and will never find it out with funky math as well).

Do the following experiment. Start a gold match. Run around like mad (um, as you would do with a shotgun). Run into a group of enemies hiding behind a corner (can't say you have to try for that real hard).

Start shooting with a carnifex. You die.
Start shooting with a talon. You'll live.

Talon staggers on headshots. The reason I said you're playing it horrible is because you are sniping with it. It's simply retarded. Talon is a shotgun first and foremost which also able to handle sniping if the need arises. Your reasoning is like I would dismiss BW or whichever is the best sniper according to you because I can't run around with it noscoping stuff.

You are trying to judge talon by pusing it into your 'infiltrators should snipe, anyone else playing anything else is stupid and idiot' box. The joke is on you.

If you're not staggering your enemies with the carnifex, you're not hitting the head. From my experience with going rambo (at least on the first few waves in gold) using carnifex on drell, hitting the head and staggering enemies is no problem.

[Mazandus]

A Wild Snorlax wrote...

I tried it for a game now. very unimpressive compared to other shotguns like the claymore, gps, wraith or other pistols like the carnifex/paladin.

Useable maybe, beast, hell no.

Probably a dumb question, but did you use both AP mod and Ext Barrel? 

Also, how to you spec your Wraith? Choke? Pierce? Barrel? 

As I hijack the thread...

[whalewhisker]

Um I just ran through gold and ripped things apart with the talon. It's totally viable on gold.