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Why the Reapers probably exist in real life


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#101
NoUserNameHere

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tractrpl wrote...

NoUserNameHere wrote...

I dunno. Fermi's paradox as described doesn't seem to account for setbacks of any kinds in any alien civilization's space program. This was from a time when we were all supposed to have flying cars and robot maids, too, so there's that.

# Six doesn't seem sound either. If there were some Reapers preventing all other civilizations from advancing past the space age, would't we at least see their handiwork. Or do they just sit on their asses out in dark space?


There's not much we can actually "see" outside our own solar system at this point.


... maybe that's why we haven't seen evidence of any alien civilizations yet. Posted Image Paradox solved. I'll be here all week.

#102
Biotic_Warlock

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This thread...

... *worries*


If there are reapers; I WANNA BE BIOTIC! :D

and not just username-wise :P

Modifié par Biotic_Warlock, 20 avril 2012 - 11:18 .


#103
kalasaurus

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Hmm... I don't know much about the subject, but I like #4 and #5. I would hope that an advanced species would be peaceful and tolerant enough that #6 weren't the case.

People do claim to see aliens and UFO's, even if they aren't credible sources. Then there are those conspiracies on the pyramids and other ancient marvels being the product of alien influence. All unlikely, but I think #5 (and even 4) could work if there truly are other advanced species who are aware of us.

I mean, in ME the Protheans were watching us and they messed with the development of asari and rachni.

#104
Zeppex

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I think the search for alien life should be more open then what it is today. Most science shows that talk about the search for alien life, talk about the goldylocks zone. But that is just a comparison to how life developed here on earth. Water is essential to life etc... I've read mags where they suggest that scientist may have discovered a planet with life, but since its not an earth like planet they is dismiss the planet.

There could be planets where the life isn't carbon based, the life in said planet could be silicon based. The universe is so vast that I think its still beyond our comprehension.

#105
Apathy1989

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1, 3 and 6 sound the most plausible.

Sentient life may be possible at many places in the galaxy, but we will be at different stages of evolution and development. It may be we are currently the only ones. Seeing as how hard it is for us to get beyond Earth, and how much destructive power we have while stuck here, its very probable most civilizations destroy themselves before discovering interstellar travel.

#106
Elizabeth Lestrad

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I'd say it's pretty obvious the reapers exist. Indoctrination of the development team by the Reapers is the only logical explanation for the game having three "different" endings where the reapers win/get the last laugh in every one of them.

*Thinks*

Hold up a sec...Biowares been indoctrinated. Yet EA owns Bioware. So if the Reapers ALSO own Bioware then.... EA are Collectors!




(Sorry, I couldnt resist)

Modifié par Elizabeth Lestrad, 20 avril 2012 - 11:22 .


#107
tractrpl

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Adugan wrote...

Lol OP, where did you get these 1-6 points? 

1. Rare is a matter of opinion. Millions of worlds is rare compared to billions in the galaxy in total.
2. Lolwat?
3. Depends on what you base that on. All we have to go on is human nature, and aliens may be too alien to comprehend, and their motivations may be different. Their technology may be different too. All their machinery may be organic for all we know.
4. Says who?
5. Again, aliens may have different motivations. You are basing this completely on human nature.
6. Probable, sure. Just like it is probable that this entire universe is a figment of someone's or something's imagination. 


Ok, I guess I need to go into more detail.

1. Just google rare earth hypothesis. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of lack of observational evidence. It's truth or non-truth is independant of anyone's opinions.  Earth-like planets may be rare or non-rare, we just don't have enough data yet. Part of this goes into possibility 2. The sun is not a very common star, like was previously assumed. Most stars like the sun are part of binary systems, and such systems make planetary orbits very unstable.  As far as yellow dwarf stars that are not binary, our sun is very interesting. Just a tiny fraction more mass, like 10% more mass, our sun would have a lifespan of 4 billion years. Complex life didn't evolve until the sun was about 4 billion years old, meaning such a sun is unlikely to produce a space-faring civilization.  Finally, we have night and day thanks to our huge moon, and the unusual circumstances under which it was formed (giant impact theory).  An earthlike planet orbiting around any star like ours is likely to have an unstable axis and it's days would be so long that one side would scorch, the other freeze. Plate techtonics would stop working, and it would lose its magnetic field within a billion years. All of this makes it unlikely that any earth-like planet in the habitable zone circling around a sun-like star would harbor any life without something like our moon, and the probability of something like our moon be created around an earthlike planet is unknown, but we can probably safely bet that such circumstances should be very, very rare.

2. This one is tied to 1 because, like I said, an earth-like planet with something like our moon revolving around something like our sun is probably rediculously rare. However, it might be more common that life revolves around red dwarfs.  Red dwarfs are the most common type of star in our galaxy, but an earthlike planet revolving around such a star would be tidally locked, with one side always facing its sun.  Perhaps a large moon could be created around such a planet from a giant impact, giving the planet spin.  It's more likely that a gas giant could settle in the habitable zone around such a star and one of its large moons could harbor life. Living moons might be more common in the universe than earth-like planets.  Therefore, civilization that arise would look for life within red dwarf stars containing gas giants in the habitable zones.  Most civilizations might ignore sunlike stars because, as I've already mentioned, such stars are unlikely to harbor life, but red dwarfs might be more likely to harbor life.

3. As for this one, all we have is human nature. However, scientists have used the notion that we're nothing special and usually have been proven right. More than likely, a civilized species would evolve from a predatory species because predators must be smarter than their prey. Likely they will also have territorial instincts as well.  A species with predatory instincts is far more likely to be hostile than a non-predatory species, but non-predatory species are not likely to become sentient.

4. Says our own dependance on technology. Eventually we get implants to make us stronger. Perhaps a little genetic engineering.  We start replacing more and more of our bodies with tech until we replace our own brains with tech. Eventually we BECOME tech.  Instead of the sci-fi notion that synthetics wipe out organics, it's more that we become synthetics.  As synthetics, we'd have no need of earthlike planets at all, because as synthetics, we don't need to eat biological food. Instead we just get energy directly from solar radiation and all the resources we need from mining asteroids and such.

5. See explanation number 3

6. See explanation number 3. If humans have a tendancy to be selfish @ssholes, what makes you think that other civilizations would NOT be selfish @ssholes?

#108
wryterra

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shepdog77 wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

shepdog77 wrote...

i believe #3 is the most viable out of these arguments. think of it as humans evolving to use 100% of their brain capacity instead of the 3% or however small it is now. and as for number 6, hawking may be smart, but his theories on aliens sound more science fictiony than the damn reapers themselves


That 3% number is a complete myth. We use almost all of our brain capacity. Also, "Such and such may be smart", well he's certainly smarter than you, so it would be best for you to shut up and listen.


settle down bud, it was an analogy.  and i watched hawking's show on aliens a few years back and all it boiled down to was him pitching science fiction ideas that any SF writer could have come up with.  he'd also have us not try to make contact with aliens out of fear they'll conquer us?  i'm more scared of our own "leaders" causing our destruction then some guddamn aliens


But your analogy was to something that was ridiculous and made up. So it was a terrible analogy. That's not how analogies work. 

#109
tractrpl

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sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Actually the sun is a pretty rare type of yellow dwarf. Astronomers have only found one other similar to it so far. This doesn't mean there are not others. This also doesn't mean it is the only type of star that can support life on its planets. I read this in Astronomy magazine a couple years back.

Most of the planets that have been discovered so far have been either gas giants or terrestrial types that have been too large to support life as we know it. Astronomers have discovered a couple with water which might show promise.

Forget anything orbiting any blue or white giants. They're too short lived for life to evolve, and then there's the radiation issues.

Red dwarfs? very long lives. Might be good candidates if they have planets with water orbiting.

Setting up a research colony on the moon is going to cost $$$ and on Mars would cost $$$$$, and that probably won't happen in our lifetimes. We're broke. Terraforming? You've got to have a planet that has a gravitational field that can hold the oxygen, and that will cost $ trillions to do, but when the resources on earth are depleted we're going to have to do something else go the way of the dinosaur.

I don't think humans are ready for first contact at the moment, however. You just know that the first contact would end up with a landing in NE Kentucky or somewhere in Nebraska (the part with one radio station for miles and miles). No offense to anyone living there.


Yes, I just wrote about this. Many scientists think red dwarfs are more likely to harbor life than stars like our sun.  So advanced civilizations tend to ignore stars like our sun. This could solve the Fermi paradox. Or, it could be impossible for red dwarfs to form life, therefore meaning only yellow dwarfs could harbor life. Given the rarity of yellow dwarfs not already existing as binary stars, and how rare it is for most of them to last more than 4 billion years, a civilization evolving from such a star is very, very unlikely, meaning we may be the only ones in our galaxy, thus solving the Fermi paradox.

#110
Myrmedus

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tractrpl wrote...

If number 6 is true, then basically we're all toast. The only way we could defeat such a civilization is through sheer luck, up to including their architect giving up and saying "I'm tired of winning all the time".  


BS! We're humans!

Did you play Mass Effect? Humans are ****ing baws, dude!

On a serious note though, it is also possible that said advanced civilization is so far away that we have not come within their sphere of influence yet. Of course, like you say, we better damn well hope we're ready by the time they do, and hope that their advancement as stagnated vs. ours so we can 'catch up'.

#111
Little Old Woman

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tractrpl wrote...

The Reapers make a disturbingly effecient solution to the Fermi paradox. The Fermi paradox was positid by Henrico Fermi to his colleagues while on a lunch break while working on the Mahattan Project.  He came to the conclusion that it should take any spacefaring civilization at most a few million years to colonize the entire galaxy, even assuming ponderously slower than light travel. This is a blink of an eye in galactic time scales. Therefore, either advanced civilization don't exist, or something else might happen.

Several solutions to the Fermi paradox include:
1) The rarity of Earth. Either habitable worlds are very rare,we may be the only civilization
2) A star like the sun is unlikely to produce life, so most civilizations ingnore our star.  
3) It's rare for civilizations to survive past a certain technological level
4) Advanced civilizations evolve away from biological level, don't require habitable planets, and so ignore us
5) They have a non-intervention policy, note that this one is very implausible because if a civilization exists, the likelihood that some of its members decide to "break ranks" and make contact, for ill or for good, is overwhelming
6) There's only one advanced civilization in existence and it destroys all other civilizations it encounters.  This one is deemed probable by no one other than Stephen Hawking.

If number 6 is true, then basically we're all toast. The only way we could defeat such a civilization is through sheer luck, up to including their architect giving up and saying "I'm tired of winning all the time".  


Sadly this has already begun to happen:




Posted Image


Still a better ending than ME3 thoughPosted Image

#112
lordofdogtown19

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 Posted Image

#113
CmdrSlander

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guacamayus wrote...

Red Dust wrote...

Cyne wrote...


Posted Image




OMG THEY ARE HERE!!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!


Posted Image

XKCD Predicted this long ago... we will bring it upon ourselves... 

#114
Madecologist

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Well if you listen to Javik enough he pretty much explains the Prothean Empire operated under the premise of the 6th option (barring Reapocalypse which is the 6th hypothesis as well). They did not exterminate other civilisations persay, but they forced them to submit or die.

They did manage to maintain a near total Hegemony (though they were involved with many wars of putting down races or fighting AI synthetic races) when the Reapers arrived. He even hints if the Reapers did not show up humanity would eventually been 'invited' to 'join' the Prothean Empire... or die fighting.

They left primitive races alone not out of kindness but letting them develop to a point they were useful as 'members' in their Empire.

Modifié par Madecologist, 21 avril 2012 - 12:07 .


#115
Ultra Prism

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Cyne wrote...


Posted Image


WE ARE VANGUARD OF YOUR DESTRUCTION BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

#116
CmdrSlander

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Ultra Prism wrote...

Cyne wrote...


Posted Image


WE ARE VANGUARD OF YOUR DESTRUCTION BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ


Posted Image

You have the attention of those infinitly you smaller... 

#117
VistaSoldier

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No matter how selfish our race can be, it doesn't mean that we would eliminate another species on sight. If we theoretically discovered an intelligent race (not as advanced as us), even our race would first interact and communicate with them. Maybe after a while, we will decide to wage war, but that will never be our first thought. I imagine a similar way of thinking among other theoretical species (no matter how brutal).

Humans only destroy each other so selfishly because we know that we have nothing to learn or gain from cooperation (we are all human, and we know everything about each other).

4 is interesting because I was recently given a lecture on this theory. Why do we play video games? Because it lets us do things we wouldn't normally be able to do without consequence. The perfect video game would be one that could emulate life. The scary thing is that this is plausible. In our imaginations, we can emulate whatever the hell we want perfectly. In a decade or so, computers will have more computing power than the mind. The only thing we need for this "perfect video game" is the ability to read data from a human brain, or take over the brain's cognitive functions (e.g. making a person dream).

If there was a perfect emulation of the world, everyone would be hooked up. You could live exactly like you did normally, fully functional and believing. You would essentially be immortal. If everyone is hooked up, then there would be no need to explore other planets (hence argument 4).

The only problem is that, this is like inception. In a perfect emulation of the world, at one point, there will be technology sufficient to make a perfect emulation of the world. How do we know we aren't in one right now? (Philosophical Mindblow)

#118
tractrpl

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VistaSoldier wrote...

No matter how selfish our race can be, it doesn't mean that we would eliminate another species on sight. If we theoretically discovered an intelligent race (not as advanced as us), even our race would first interact and communicate with them. Maybe after a while, we will decide to wage war, but that will never be our first thought. I imagine a similar way of thinking among other theoretical species (no matter how brutal).

Humans only destroy each other so selfishly because we know that we have nothing to learn or gain from cooperation (we are all human, and we know everything about each other).

4 is interesting because I was recently given a lecture on this theory. Why do we play video games? Because it lets us do things we wouldn't normally be able to do without consequence. The perfect video game would be one that could emulate life. The scary thing is that this is plausible. In our imaginations, we can emulate whatever the hell we want perfectly. In a decade or so, computers will have more computing power than the mind. The only thing we need for this "perfect video game" is the ability to read data from a human brain, or take over the brain's cognitive functions (e.g. making a person dream).

If there was a perfect emulation of the world, everyone would be hooked up. You could live exactly like you did normally, fully functional and believing. You would essentially be immortal. If everyone is hooked up, then there would be no need to explore other planets (hence argument 4).

The only problem is that, this is like inception. In a perfect emulation of the world, at one point, there will be technology sufficient to make a perfect emulation of the world. How do we know we aren't in one right now? (Philosophical Mindblow)


You'll notice I didn't say anything about "synthetics inevitably destroy organics" because that kind of logic only works for the starbrats of this universe.

#119
Biotic_Warlock

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The cats are the first to be indoctrinated... fact.


Posted Image

#120
Kreid

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Actually, it's a possibility.

Since NASA installed their Kepler telescope scientists have discovered a stunning quantity of exoplanets that might in theory be potential harbors or life, so it's really hard to think that in the billions of years in the universe there's been no civilizations which have reached a technological level high enough to travel the stars, even the Galaxy itself.

Maybe they tend to destroy themselves or don't want to influence our evolution and keep themselves hidden, or maybe there's something out there like the Reapers and the Inhibitors fro Alastair Reynold's Revelation Space that don't want spacefaring civilizations to exist for a reason or another, in any case, Stephen Hawking said it well when he said we should wait all we can until we find ET because if we're not ready it might turn very bad., for us.

Modifié par Creid-X, 21 avril 2012 - 11:29 .


#121
Zkyire

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Malanek999 wrote...

Red Dust wrote...

An interesting topic given the age of the universe. I think 5 is not implausible at all. By the stage any civilisation reaches the level of advancement necessary, they are much less likely to be douchebags.


What on earth would lead you to this conclusion?

Because I optimistically believe that evolution, including humanitys, will ultimately lead to people working together more without the need or want to break laws that have been established for good reason. 


Our technology has advanced over the last 10,000 years.

But we're pretty much the same people, even with more education; a lot of people are stil thieves, rapists, and murders, and getting shiny new toys in the future wont change that.

#122
Joccaren

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Ummm. No.
Not probable. Possible? Sure. Probable? No.

#123
The Protheans

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tractrpl wrote...



Ok, I guess I need to go into more detail.

1. Just google rare earth hypothesis. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of lack of observational evidence. It's truth or non-truth is independant of anyone's opinions.  Earth-like planets may be rare or non-rare, we just don't have enough data yet. Part of this goes into possibility 2. The sun is not a very common star, like was previously assumed. Most stars like the sun are part of binary systems, and such systems make planetary orbits very unstable.  As far as yellow dwarf stars that are not binary, our sun is very interesting. Just a tiny fraction more mass, like 10% more mass, our sun would have a lifespan of 4 billion years. Complex life didn't evolve until the sun was about 4 billion years old, meaning such a sun is unlikely to produce a space-faring civilization.  Finally, we have night and day thanks to our huge moon, and the unusual circumstances under which it was formed (giant impact theory).  An earthlike planet orbiting around any star like ours is likely to have an unstable axis and it's days would be so long that one side would scorch, the other freeze. Plate techtonics would stop working, and it would lose its magnetic field within a billion years. All of this makes it unlikely that any earth-like planet in the habitable zone circling around a sun-like star would harbor any life without something like our moon, and the probability of something like our moon be created around an earthlike planet is unknown, but we can probably safely bet that such circumstances should be very, very rare.



Its all a matter of opinion and no human really knows the truth behind it so it probably if you say it is one thing the opposite is true and vice versa.




2. This one is tied to 1 because, like I said, an earth-like planet with something like our moon revolving around something like our sun is probably rediculously rare. However, it might be more common that life revolves around red dwarfs.  Red dwarfs are the most common type of star in our galaxy, but an earthlike planet revolving around such a star would be tidally locked, with one side always facing its sun.  Perhaps a large moon could be created around such a planet from a giant impact, giving the planet spin.  It's more likely that a gas giant could settle in the habitable zone around such a star and one of its large moons could harbor life. Living moons might be more common in the universe than earth-like planets.  Therefore, civilization that arise would look for life within red dwarf stars containing gas giants in the habitable zones.  Most civilizations might ignore sunlike stars because, as I've already mentioned, such stars are unlikely to harbor life, but red dwarfs might be more likely to harbor life.


This one is tied to #1


3. As for this one, all we have is human nature. However, scientists have used the notion that we're nothing special and usually have been proven right. More than likely, a civilized species would evolve from a predatory species because predators must be smarter than their prey. Likely they will also have territorial instincts as well.  A species with predatory instincts is far more likely to be hostile than a non-predatory species, but non-predatory species are not likely to become sentient.


One example doesn't justify it to used in every encounter.




4. Says our own dependance on technology. Eventually we get implants to make us stronger. Perhaps a little genetic engineering.  We start replacing more and more of our bodies with tech until we replace our own brains with tech. Eventually we BECOME tech.  Instead of the sci-fi notion that synthetics wipe out organics, it's more that we become synthetics.  As synthetics, we'd have no need of earthlike planets at all, because as synthetics, we don't need to eat biological food. Instead we just get energy directly from solar radiation and all the resources we need from mining asteroids and such.


What if a group of people don't want to get a implant that makes them more synthetic than organic

5. See explanation number 3

6. See explanation number 3. If humans have a tendancy to be selfish @ssholes, what makes you think that other civilizations would NOT be selfish @ssholes?


See previous points

Modifié par The Protheans, 21 avril 2012 - 12:09 .


#124
Cadeym

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It wouldn't really matter if there existed a type of reapers that destroy all space faring civilizations... because humanity won't manage to travel beyond this solar system within the next 500 years.

Besides we should have had an iceage decades ago... i'm expecting that the majority of humanity will die in some iceage that probably appears within the next 100 years. If not, then an asteroyed is bound to hit earth eventually.

#125
Navasha

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Honestly, I would imagine its a combination of many different reasons that end up being the "truth" of the matter.

For instance, while its nice to dream about an advanced future for humanity... its not actually very probable. The time we are living in right now could very well be the apex of human technology. Theres a pretty good chance that things will start to decline for humanity pretty rapidly.

The fact that we have pretty much abandoned our attempts to expand into space and begin to focus on rising domestic issues for which there is no real solution seems to indicate that we have reached our golden age of humanity and beginning to decline. Growing population, dwindling food and resources. Its hard to push for space exploration when people are hungry in the streets.

As resources and food become scarce, more wars and violence will escalate, which again will shift resources away from "dreaming".

Expanding into space requires an immense amount of initial investment of resources for a civilization, and I imagine most civilizations, including ours, are going to be unwilling to make that initial investment during that small window of opportunity of time when resources still are in abundance. Our window is rapidly closing. Our population explosion will quickly hit the limit of our resources in the near future.