19 réponses à ce sujet

[indyracing]

First, I'm not sure if this is the right forum, but I can't find a DA 3 one.

In my opinion, Dragon Age 2, while not terrible at all, wasn't as good, in terms of story, as Dragon Age 1.  Not because it was smaller in scope, but because I remember feeling a bit disjointed when the final enemy (act 3) wasn't the same as from acts 1 and 2.  Now it's been a while since I've played the end, so I could be a bit hazy on that, and apologize if I am incorrect.

Granted, since the final "true" enemy didn't suddenly appear from out of nowhere for just the last scene, I didn't dislike it nearly as much as some, ahem, other recent Bioware release.

But that other Bioware release has pretty much shattered my trust (which was, probably naively, simply unquestionable, until now) in Bioware.  I don't think I can ever buy another Bioware game without extensive research beforehand (and this research will not involve going to gaming review sites such as IGN and the like - but actual normal people's opinions).  I even knew, beforehand, that many people thought ME 3 had a bad ending, and thought I prepared myself for whatever it could be, but I simply could not have imagined an ending that bad (in a work that wasn't TRYING to be bad).

It may or may not be generally accepted, but I thought the story telling in DA 2 was weaker in DA 1 (I liked the combat more, but not the parachuting enemies, nor the reused locations with no effort to hide them as being reused).  I also thought the storytelling was weaker (overall, which includes, the end, but definitely not in certain points) in both ME 2 and ME 3 than their predecessors.  And the stories (saw 2, plus the generic Sith-side quests) in SWTOR, while "good for an MMO", were average, at best, for Bioware.

What I'm getting at is that I am noticing a definite trend downward for myself (with a sudden fall off of a cliff with the last story).

What has me nervous is that the ratio of game devs and paid reviewers seem to have no issue at all with my main complaint about the end of ME 3 - the Deus Ex Machina nature of, well, you may or may not know - but those who's opinion I'm really after, the writers of DA 3 - surely do.  IMO, Deus Ex Machina is, quite simply, never good.  I didn't play Deus Ex, so maybe it is there, I don't know.  And the more important point it's introduced, the worse it is.

I guess I wonder if DA 3 writers tend to share this opinion, and if not, why not?  Outside of comedies, I can't think of a time where I've seen it (and I didn't know what the term for it was, but had seen it before) and didn't at least internally groan, or roll my eyes, or at worst start saying things like "WTF?" or "my god that's stupid".  Comedies, I think, are different, because their purpose is laughter.  Any sort of mostly drama, though, has to be internally consistant.  And to me, DEM's simply aren't.  Ever.

So I'm left to wonder just what Bioware, as a whole (not specifically the writers behind the end of Mass Effect 3) have learned.  And since DA 3, as far as I can tell, is the next Bioware game (and would have been my next 100% automatic purchase upon release), why should I trust it to be good?

[thats1evildude]

You're asking us to speculate on the ending of a game we know next to nothing about. You might as well ask if it's worthwhile to trade in your PC now in anticipation of the Next-Gen XBox. Um, maybe? I heard a totally legitimate rumour that it will have a special feature where it turns into a robot girl and strokes your hair at night while whispering what a pretty, pretty bird you are.

I will note, however, that the DA team is not the same as the ME team, and while you may have disliked DA2 somewhat, the devs have acknowledged some of the faults of DA2 and are working towards improving the sequel. You can either take that as a glimmer of hope or a confirmation that you should spend the next six months to a year wailing that DA2 defiled the franchise and stole the innocence of a thousand thousand gamers, as many of your fellow forum-goers have. I can't answer that question for you, as this is a battle every man and woman must wage in the very depths of their soul.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 20 avril 2012 - 08:51 .

[Maria Caliban]

Pro-tip: The best time to ask a bunch of forum goers if you should get a game is after it's been released and they've managed to play it.

[thats1evildude]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Pro-tip: The best time to ask a bunch of forum goers if you should get a game is after it's been released and they've managed to play it.

Well, I can understand his thinking. I frequently go up to random people in restaurants and ask them if they're going to enjoy their meal just as they've ordered and whether I should do the same.

Of course, I'm also banned at a number of eating establishments within the city, and I understand that the local McDonalds now keeps my picture on the wall with the words "DO NOT SERVE" scrawled underneath in blood. I guess no one had a pen.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 20 avril 2012 - 07:26 .

[keesio74]

All I know is that I will judge games for myself from now on. It took me a year to pick up DA2 because I assumed I would not like it from reading other people's thoughts. I ended up liking it quite a bit.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

You should likely follow game development and decide on the information leaked and demos displayed before you formulate an opinion.

[BomberJR]

If you have these doubts, then do not pre-order. Just wait for it to come out and see how the reviews go. Purchase from a position of strength!

[bEVEsthda]

I think you should stay interested, just out of curiosity about what Bioware will do.
They're aware they have problems, and they intend to fix it.
Last time this happened, NWN:OC, they did fix it. And then laid it on with a line of straight winners,..
up to DA2.

So things are definitely not hopeless. The suggestion of how they will handle party equipment customization looks quite tolerable. Besides, it's always the total sum of the whole package. Just some details don't ruin it. All games have flaws, quite many, in fact, even those games we like.

As for the ME3 ending, it is somewhat of a mystery. One would really take for granted that no qualified writer would ever participate in such silly Deus Ex Machina nonsens! So did they really? According to hearsay I've received they didn't.
But again, it seem likely that Bioware will eventually come to some conclusion that they need to see to it that such a thing doesn't happen again. No matter what the release shedule is or what things they're forced to reallocate resources to. Right now they're behaving in a crazy manner though. With that dlc that is supposed to "clarify". That ending doesn't need a clarification. It will help nada. It's weird they can't see that.

[wsandista]

You should buy it if you get the chance to play it a little and you think it's worth the price tag.

[In Exile]

Well, story structure wise DA2 was almost a throwback to BG. I was having this discussion in another thread, actually. But I think Bioware will never touch the minefield that is a disconnected plot again, after DA2.

The real issue is whether they'll tie up a plot well. YMMV with that one. I thought DA:O flopped completely in the ending, but most people loved it (at least here on the forum), so I'm not the right person to ask. I don't think Bioware's structured a story well since ME1.

[Bizantura]

Is being in sinc with others opinions that importent to you?

You have listed various criticism about bioware's games shurely you can make up your own mind?

[sindrie111]

Give them a chance, yes they completely dropped the ball with DA2 but I think they learned there lesson. I have hope that DA3 with be the best yet, now lets hope i'm right

[bEVEsthda]

Bizantura wrote...

Is being in sinc with others opinions that importent to you?

You have listed various criticism about bioware's games shurely you can make up your own mind?

In Exile is a champion of a past and long since lost cause.
(Maybe many of us are?  )

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 22 avril 2012 - 09:34 .

[Shrrukan]

Touche!

[OrganizedChaos826]

It's annoying how few people are able to understand that the DA team has absolutely nothing to do with ME and vice versa. They are two separate teams. Not one.
Anyways, maybe you should reserve judgement until we actually know stuff about the game? We know next to nothing about it at this point, except that it's most likely taking place in Orlais.
Also, Mark Darrah stated that they will keep us updated throughout the development and will be looking for our input on their decisions.
They definitely learned from their mistakes with DA2, as they've said.

[AlexJK]

thats1evildude wrote...

Well, I can understand his thinking. I frequently go up to random people in restaurants and ask them if they're going to enjoy their meal just as they've ordered and whether I should do the same.

Of course, I'm also banned at a number of eating establishments within the city, and I understand that the local McDonalds now keeps my picture on the wall with the words "DO NOT SERVE" scrawled underneath in blood. I guess no one had a pen.

Awesome post. Thank you 

OrganizedChaos826 wrote...

It's annoying how few people are able to understand that the DA team has absolutely nothing to do with ME and vice versa. They are two separate teams. Not one.

 
Unfortunately they are both operating under the Bioware brand, and once that brand has been (possibly forever) damaged by something like ME3, it's easy to assume that the same mistakes could carry over to other products from the same people.

[Sean]

AlexJK wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Well, I can understand his thinking. I frequently go up to random people in restaurants and ask them if they're going to enjoy their meal just as they've ordered and whether I should do the same.

Of course, I'm also banned at a number of eating establishments within the city, and I understand that the local McDonalds now keeps my picture on the wall with the words "DO NOT SERVE" scrawled underneath in blood. I guess no one had a pen.

Awesome post. Thank you 

OrganizedChaos826 wrote...

It's annoying how few people are able to understand that the DA team has absolutely nothing to do with ME and vice versa. They are two separate teams. Not one.

 
Unfortunately they are both operating under the Bioware brand, and once that brand has been (possibly forever) damaged by something like ME3, it's easy to assume that the same mistakes could carry over to other products from the same people.

Both DA2 and ME3 did not live up to the expecations of many people.

For DA2, the Exalted March expansion was cancelled and there is no retailer intertest for an Ultimate Edition showing how far that game had fallen.

With ME3, the game shows of sloppy writing and blatant lies on Bioware's part within the weeks prior to release.

Both are two different teams, both are still Bioware, both have been bad on their own terms.

I don't think I will buy another Bioware game on release day and instead wait for it to hear the reviews from customers and not biased "journalists".

Modifié par RX_Sean_XI, 24 avril 2012 - 04:04 .

[yk1468]

when I look at DA2 its like in the same setting but different places, evidenced by the ending of the game and starting the game and yes origins as a story is better, but the reason its linear because that is the change that Morrigan was talking about in witch hunt, so check it out and the new character might be the son of the warden or if your warden made the sacrifice, bioware will change the events and such and explain something else like anders's death and leliana's so just try the game when it comes out.

[TheReignmaker]

RX_Sean_XI wrote...

AlexJK wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Well, I can understand his thinking. I frequently go up to random people in restaurants and ask them if they're going to enjoy their meal just as they've ordered and whether I should do the same.

Of course, I'm also banned at a number of eating establishments within the city, and I understand that the local McDonalds now keeps my picture on the wall with the words "DO NOT SERVE" scrawled underneath in blood. I guess no one had a pen.

Awesome post. Thank you 

OrganizedChaos826 wrote...

It's annoying how few people are able to understand that the DA team has absolutely nothing to do with ME and vice versa. They are two separate teams. Not one.

 
Unfortunately they are both operating under the Bioware brand, and once that brand has been (possibly forever) damaged by something like ME3, it's easy to assume that the same mistakes could carry over to other products from the same people.

Both DA2 and ME3 did not live up to the expecations of many people.

For DA2, the Exalted March expansion was cancelled and there is no retailer intertest for an Ultimate Edition showing how far that game had fallen.

With ME3, the game shows of sloppy writing and blatant lies on Bioware's part within the weeks prior to release.

Both are two different teams, both are still Bioware, both have been bad on their own terms.

I don't think I will buy another Bioware game on release day and instead wait for it to hear the reviews from customers and not biased "journalists".

I understand what you mean. 

Absolutely loved Origins.  Still consider it my most enjoyable single-player experience ever.  That being said, DA 3 is not even on my radar.  Not even excited for it.  And seeing the sinking ship that SWTOR has become, Bioware is "just another" gaming company now.

But fear not, Diablo 3 is near.

[Ryenke]

I only started watching/participating in the BSN forums just before DA2 was released, because I was so excited by it. It was also my first game pre-order ever.

I felt badly burned by DA2 - the bugs that left many hours of my first game completely unusable, and when I was able to play it was disappointing at best: the railroad storyline and virtually everything I enjoyed in DA:O was missing (item lore/descriptions/pictures, equipping companions, long thoughtful dialogs with companions, party camp, breathtaking artwork, multiple origins, visually appropriate codex, variations in story I could effect, engaging roleplay, etc.).

I tried but never made it through a second playthrough (although given that I had to abandon my first playthrough as bugged beyond fixing - it is not surprising that I had no tolerance for going through the exact same story and the same Kirkwall map for the 10th+ time).

So, why am I still here? Curiosity for one, watching the process as the devs tell us what they are going for. But mostly to put my 2 cents worth down in the probably vain hope that some BioWare dev will decide some DA:O type play are worth saving.

Will I buy DA3? Unlikely, based upon BioWare's track recent track record (Yes, I know ME3 team is a different team, but some of the problems I see in it were also problems I saw in DA2, so I think the EA/BioWare institution is moving in a direction I don't like).  Also unlikely based upon the dev's comments that leave me thinking we will get a reworked DA2 - with very little DA:O like play.

Still, no one will have any idea of what DA3 will be like 'til it is released, so I'll watch the boards for curiositiy's sake, and remind myself not get caught up in the hype. Post release I'll check in here and/or other game discussion forums and find out how the fans think the game plays. If it sounds good, I'll give it a try.

But all we can do now is speculate and wait and see.

Modifié par Ryenke, 26 avril 2012 - 03:24 .