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[Randomjack]

Tali for sure. I probably would have romanced her in ME1 if I could've.

I definitely liked Ashley, but the rockiness of the relationship got to me - Tali was a true friend, no matter what, while Ashley wanted nothing to do with me during Cerberus. I'd like to bring up that Tali had major reason to hate Cerberus after the Migrant Fleet attack - but still chose to stick with me.

Beyond personal taste and personality leaning me toward Tali, this juxtaposition hit me.
Ashley (paraphrased): I dont even know you anymore. I cant accept that youre working with cerberus, and dont trust you now
Tali: I'm here for you, not Cerberus.

Modifié par Randomjack, 20 avril 2012 - 05:23 .

[huntrrz]

jreezy wrote...

huntrrz wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Ashley continues to call you on your Cerberus ties until the coup. If anything she and Kaidan are the most consistent characters in the series. Alliance soldiers through and through.

Shepard was reinstated by Admiral Anderson.  For an "Aliance soldier, through and through", questioning him at every turn doesn't seem to show much respect for the chain of command...

How dare someone of EQUAL or SUPERIOR rank question me!!!

I wasn't talking about disrespecting Shepard, I was talking about disrespecting ANDERSON.  He's several ranks above either of them, and presumably had knowledge that Williams did not that allowed him to clear Shepard for duty.

(And if I'm not mistaken Shepard is still William's superior because he was appointed to the rank before she was.)

[Rudy Lis]

huntrrz wrote...

(And if I'm not mistaken Shepard is still William's superior because he was appointed to the rank before she was.)

Gah, Ash new rank is one of pet peeves major psychotic ****ing hatreds of mine. One of those I will never accept. Not without solid proofs. Especially after seeing they means nothing in game.

[Ruthac_Arus]

Hard to know without knowing your preferences, current run through situation, OP. But, for an overwhelming multitude of reasons, I personally chose miss vas Normandy hands down, so Tali is my recommendation.

[Rudy Lis]

Ruthac_Arus wrote...

Hard to know without knowing your preferences, current run through situation, OP. But, for an overwhelming multitude of reasons, I personally chose miss vas Normandy hands down, so Tali is my recommendation.

By the way - had anyone suggested sash and tiara for Tali Miss vas Normandy?

[im commander shep]

Ashley and Tali there is enough shep love to go round. Ashley did say she see's tali like a sister. Sisters

[CptData]

Rudy Lis wrote...

CptData wrote...

Must say, TIM redeems himself when doing "The Saren".

He is not always reenacting Saren.

No, he doesn't. I had to take him down on my own
Maybe in another playthrough - if I can force myself to do one before new endings.

TIM was a great villain - to bad BW didn't spend enough time explaining his goals in ME3. However, that game was about stopping the Reapers, not stopping TIM.

[im commander shep]

huntrrz wrote...

jreezy wrote...

huntrrz wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Ashley continues to call you on your Cerberus ties until the coup. If anything she and Kaidan are the most consistent characters in the series. Alliance soldiers through and through.

Shepard was reinstated by Admiral Anderson.  For an "Aliance soldier, through and through", questioning him at every turn doesn't seem to show much respect for the chain of command...

How dare someone of EQUAL or SUPERIOR rank question me!!!

I wasn't talking about disrespecting Shepard, I was talking about disrespecting ANDERSON.  He's several ranks above either of them, and presumably had knowledge that Williams did not that allowed him to clear Shepard for duty.

(And if I'm not mistaken Shepard is still William's superior because he was appointed to the rank before she was.)

Ashley is Lieutenant Commander

Shepard is just Commander, rank above ashley, he is still her superior.

[sammysoso]

Everyone has their favorites, that's the beauty of Mass Effect.

But me personally, I choose Ashley

[CptData]

Randomjack wrote...

Tali for sure. I probably would have romanced her in ME1 if I could've.

I definitely liked Ashley, but the rockiness of the relationship got to me - Tali was a true friend, no matter what, while Ashley wanted nothing to do with me during Cerberus. I'd like to bring up that Tali had major reason to hate Cerberus after the Migrant Fleet attack - but still chose to stick with me.

Beyond personal taste and personality leaning me toward Tali, this juxtaposition hit me.
Ashley (paraphrased): I dont even know you anymore. I cant accept that youre working with cerberus, and dont trust you now
Tali: I'm here for you, not Cerberus.

True.
But keep in mind: Tali's loyalty is towards her own people and Shepard. The Flotilla doesn't have any issues with Cerberus und Cerberus simply doesn't care about the Quarians - they don't fight each other, period. Tali had no real reason to feel like a traitor to her people.
She didn't like Cerberus, that's why she was "working for you, not for them."

Ashley on the other side is an Alliance officer. Her loyalty are set in stone: Alliance first. Cerberus is no longer part of the Alliance, it's a private corporation or ex black ops - and it's seen as a terrorist organization, at least as something tainting mankind.
True, there are some connections between high ranking Alliance officers and Cerberus, no doubt. I'm pretty sure Hackett is connected to Cerberus somehow, same for Anderson. But they don't trust them, as it seems, they trust Shepard, at least in some way.
Ash is in ME2 still an ordinary NCO. We dunno what she did on Horizon or what she learned about Cerberus and Shepard before meeting him in person on Horizon. But it definitely didn't help to rekindle anything.

In ME3 she still doesn't trust Shepard. I might remind you Ashley's most prominent trait (and the one that makes her looking like a racist and an unpleasant person to have around) is her distrustfulness: she doesn't trust Shepard anymore until he redeemed himself in her eyes. All trust issues are resolved in one or another way at Udina's coup, but before that point, Ash doesn't know if Shepard is fully loyal towards the Alliance.

Yes, I know, it's painful, especially since Shepard IS loyal and proves it in several missions (in our eyes) - but Ashley doesn't know the full picture. That makes it incredible painful to regain her trust (or even fail).

What irks me most is the fact it doesn't come with a reward - if you don't pick the romance. And even if you have that romance, the reward is reduced to said romance - Ash is no longer the friend you had in ME1. And that's one of the reasons why her romance feels incomplete, while Tali's, although far shorter, feels better.

[Rudy Lis]

CptData wrote...

No, he doesn't. I had to take him down on my own
Maybe in another playthrough - if I can force myself to do one before new endings.

I guess it is linked to way you persuading him - my renegade Shepard had to kill him (having big renegade bar), yet paragon path allowed to reason with him to suicide path quite fast. Maybe it's definitely like Saren - unless you go "all good" on Virmire you just won't have that option to reason with him there. Not sure bug or feat.

CptData wrote...

TIM was a great villain - to bad BW didn't spend enough time explaining his goals in ME3. However, that game was about stopping the Reapers, not stopping TIM.

Well, I disagree on villain part. He wasn't saint, yes, but someone has to do dirty job. I haven't read books and won't do after "recent events", that's for sure, but judging on games only, he had abnormal potential of being, say, "bastard, but our bastard". And being turned into Saren wannabe? By people who created Irenicus? Do. Not. Believe. That. Crap.
Tsk. Sad, but true. It's not even "you can’t make an omelette without breaking eggs: grade of breaking, it's worse.
Oh, well, instead deeply developed characters and story we have multiplayer, Allers and lot of pom-poms.

im commander shep wrote...

Ashley is Lieutenant Commander

Shepard is just Commander, rank above ashley, he is still her superior.

There is no "commander" in codex. Lieutenant-Commander and Staff Commander only. But there was zero references on Shepard's promotion.
Of course there is no references on Ensign, yet one was killed on Normandy SR-1 attack and lot of Ensigns were at Grissom.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 20 avril 2012 - 07:01 .

[TheAwesomologist]

CptData wrote...

But keep in mind: Tali's loyalty is towards her own people and Shepard. The Flotilla doesn't have any issues with Cerberus und Cerberus simply doesn't care about the Quarians - they don't fight each other, period. Tali had no real reason to feel like a traitor to her people.
She didn't like Cerberus, that's why she was "working for you, not for them."

Actually I believe there was a book before ME2 came out that was all about Cerberus attacking the Migrant Fleet. Tali even brings it up at the begining of ME2. The Quarians don't like Cerberus, they do however seem to respect Commander Shepard as both an accomplished "Captain" as well as bringing Tali with him/her and making her one of the heroes in the events of ME1. Now that respect only went so far in ME2, since they thought that forcing Shepard to represent Tali at her trial would work against Tali and in fact it could completely blow up in their face (assuming you acquit her of all charges).

In ME3 not only do they call on Shepard to help (regardless of his prior association with Cerberus), Shepard almost single handledly gives them back their planet.

[Ranarc]

im commander shep wrote...

Ashley is Lieutenant Commander

Shepard is just Commander, rank above ashley, he is still her superior.

They are both Lieutenant Commander, http://masseffect.wi...mmander_Shepard
Shepard never got promoted throughout the games.

[CptData]

TheAwesomologist wrote...

CptData wrote...

But keep in mind: Tali's loyalty is towards her own people and Shepard. The Flotilla doesn't have any issues with Cerberus und Cerberus simply doesn't care about the Quarians - they don't fight each other, period. Tali had no real reason to feel like a traitor to her people.
She didn't like Cerberus, that's why she was "working for you, not for them."

Actually I believe there was a book before ME2 came out that was all about Cerberus attacking the Migrant Fleet. Tali even brings it up at the begining of ME2. The Quarians don't like Cerberus, they do however seem to respect Commander Shepard as both an accomplished "Captain" as well as bringing Tali with him/her and making her one of the heroes in the events of ME1. Now that respect only went so far in ME2, since they thought that forcing Shepard to represent Tali at her trial would work against Tali and in fact it could completely blow up in their face (assuming you acquit her of all charges).

In ME3 not only do they call on Shepard to help (regardless of his prior association with Cerberus), Shepard almost single handledly gives them back their planet.

I need to state that I don't consider the books as "canon" - only stuff used, mentioned or developed in the games taken from the books are okay to me, but the books themselves are a tad too detached for my taste.

So if Tali brings that one up, it's okay (missed that one maybe). 

I like that "honored Captain" stuff you mentioned, by the way.

[im commander shep]

Rudy Lis wrote...

CptData wrote...

No, he doesn't. I had to take him down on my own
Maybe in another playthrough - if I can force myself to do one before new endings.

I guess it is linked to way you persuading him - my renegade Shepard had to kill him (having big renegade bar), yet paragon path allowed to reason with him to suicide path quite fast. Maybe it's definitely like Saren - unless you go "all good" on Virmire you just won't have that option to reason with him there. Not sure bug or feat.

CptData wrote...

TIM was a great villain - to bad BW didn't spend enough time explaining his goals in ME3. However, that game was about stopping the Reapers, not stopping TIM.

Well, I disagree on villain part. He wasn't saint, yes, but someone has to do dirty job. I haven't read books and won't do after "recent events", that's for sure, but judging on games only, he had abnormal potential of being, say, "bastard, but our bastard". And being turned into Saren wannabe? By people who created Irenicus? Do. Not. Believe. That. Crap.
Tsk. Sad, but true. It's not even "you can’t make an omelette without breaking eggs: grade of breaking, it's worse.
Oh, well, instead deeply developed characters and story we have multiplayer, Allers and lot of pom-poms.

im commander shep wrote...

Ashley is Lieutenant Commander

Shepard is just Commander, rank above ashley, he is still her superior.

There is no "commander" in codex. Lieutenant-Commander and Staff Commander only. But there was zero references on Shepard's promotion.
Of course there is no references on Ensign, yet one was killed on Normandy SR-1 attack and lot of Ensigns were at Grissom.

This is one case where I have ignored the codex. He's commander shepard or commander  though-out the series. This being based on real world naval rankings that is.

Modifié par im commander shep, 20 avril 2012 - 07:07 .

[im commander shep]

My mistake, missed the in game references to him being lieutenant commander.

[Complistic]

Lizardviking wrote...

Foxhound2121 wrote...

Tali. I can't stand Ash. and this www.youtube.com/watch

"I hope the Reapers send you to hell."

Stay classy Ash, stay classy.

dammmn I like Ashley but i haven't heard that one before. I really like ME1 ashley but Im starting to think that ashley is no more.

Modifié par Complistic, 20 avril 2012 - 07:20 .

[Hadeedak]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

Make another Shepard! Pick both!

Make another Shepard, choose both, then do barrel roll and pick Cortez!

ROMANCE ALL THE THINGS! 

[Rudy Lis]

CptData wrote...

Ashley on the other side is an Alliance officer.

She's not. She's NCO. Apparently after Arrival she made that jump from OC to LtCdr (HTF is that?), in six month. You, of all people, should know how proper officer's commision and promotion work.

CptData wrote...

Her loyalty are set in stone: Alliance first.

Aha. Three times. If she is Alliance first - why there are doubts in Shepard? Anderson "reinstated" him and she was there, right on Normandy's ramp. If you so "loyal" - be kind, follow guddamn orders and CoC. Have doubts and complains? Write report. There is no guarantee it will be approved and transfer order will be granted (for example), but chewing that old "you and Cerberus" blah-blah is more than just minor annoyance. That's why I like Kaidan and Vega: they behave like officers and even if they have doubts, they know their place.
Of course, one may object and say Ash just "strong woman" or "stubborn person". Doesn't matter - "you're in the army now".

CptData wrote...

Cerberus is no longer part of the Alliance, it's a private corporation or ex black ops - and it's seen as a terrorist organization, at least as something tainting mankind.
True, there are some connections between high ranking Alliance officers and Cerberus, no doubt. I'm pretty sure Hackett is connected to Cerberus somehow, same for Anderson. But they don't trust them, as it seems, they trust Shepard, at least in some way.

Not so sure. Their relations could be far more deep than we see (remember Red Alert 1 - "some thing you are not clear to see"). Cerberus may still be naturally black-ops organisation, "red herring" or "put blame on" organisation, sort of modern PMC who could do all dirty jobs, keeping their "founding country" clean.
That's why I have strong disbelief on their role and behavior in ME3. I'd prefer to see more collectors - basically they are same, only without shields, wings, CAR and CPB, but with ninja and sniper ladies and rocket boots. Speaking of ladies: why there is so strange disproportion between males and females, even if integrations is so powerful?

CptData wrote...

In ME3 she still doesn't trust Shepard. I might remind you Ashley's most prominent trait (and the one that makes her looking like a racist and an unpleasant person to have around) is her distrustfulness: she doesn't trust Shepard anymore until he redeemed himself in her eyes. All trust issues are resolved in one or another way at Udina's coup, but before that point, Ash doesn't know if Shepard is fully loyal towards the Alliance.

Hehe. "redeem". I'm not sure for "to do" list, but, let's check:
- faithful/cheated in case of maleshep. Not sure if case.
- number of visits in hospital.
- gift. Russian roulette without playing ME1 and knowing about Tennyson.
- keeping salarian councillor alive (impossible without both previous games).
Anything I missed?
Even if yes, so far I fail to see how all of those, except salarian somehow proves Shepard's loyalty. If they wanted to play suspicious card for VS, Shepard's personal interest and "care" should be coloured with suspicion - sort of "is he really worried about me or just trying to sweeten the pill while he is still working for Cerberus?"

CptData wrote...

What irks me most is the fact it doesn't come with a reward - if you don't pick the romance. And even if you have that romance, the reward is reduced to said romance - Ash is no longer the friend you had in ME1. And that's one of the reasons why her romance feels incomplete, while Tali's, although far shorter, feels better.

One more reason to keep Kaidan alive.

Hadeedak wrote...

ROMANCE ALL THE THINGS!

Including robodog?

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 20 avril 2012 - 07:32 .

[Hellfire257]

I think it goes beyond simple loyalty. Ash needs to see that he is still the same guy she knew before the Normandy's destruction. She says this herself, I believe. Those things you have pointed out, Rudy, affirm Shepard's character to her - he has not changed (unless you as a player have decided to change Shepard). How can she be loyal to something she doesn't truly know? Remember, she doesn't know as much about Shepard's ordeal as the player does and it is easy to forget that.

[BP93]

I've never seen that before.

Bitter Ash is bitter. What the hell did that player do to ****** her off that much? LOL

That was gut wrenching.

[Hadeedak]

Hadeedak wrote...

ROMANCE ALL THE THINGS!

Including robodog?

Ok, no... Damnit. Way to kill the silly.

[Quething]

BP93 wrote...

I've never seen that before.

Bitter Ash is bitter. What the hell did that player do to ****** her off that much? LOL

That was gut wrenching.

I don't know, but I'm proud of her for sticking it to him as much as she could. Poor Ash.