178 réponses à ce sujet

[LandoCalrisian]

 I just finished my second playthrough - first time around I couldn't figure out why Joker was fleeing from the beam/laser/cloud - I thought it was the same beam that was bouncing around the Mass Effect Relays and destroying them, but that isn't the case, as now seems obvoius to me.

In all of the endings there's a red/pink energy field that washes over Earth and the universe, either destroying the reapers, putting them under Shepherd's control or synthesizing organic and synthetic life. That's what Joker is running from, not the Relay Destruction Beam or whatever bounces between the relays.

The glowy kid on the Citadel mentions that Shepherd will destroy/control/synthesize synthetic life, "including the geth" and the reapers, but since EDI has become a living synthetic (as revealed in her final chat with Shepherd), she would of course also affected. Joker is trying to outrun the cloud to save his lover. He is fully aware that she has similarities to the Reapers and the Geth, and seeing the red cloud that wiped them out approaching would of course cause Joker to turn and try to escape it.

EDI has a triple nature as both ship and individual robot and software in the span of ME3, remember, so we can consider both the EVA body, the ship and her code itself as "Synthetic Life".

Therefore, in the Destroy ending, the ship is sufficiently screwed by her annhilation that it crashes and she's nowhere to be seen afterwards.

In the Control ending, she has lost all free will and become a slave to Shepherd and therefore wouldn't functionally exist either since her "life/consciousness/free will" would no longer be there to control her body/ship/software code. Presumably this also causes the Normandy to malfunction/crash since she was controlling pretty much all ship's systems.

In the synthesis ending, she survives and her and Joker are products of synthesis - maybe he's become part of the ship and the ship (EDI) has become part of him? Or in any case he and EDI are each synthesized with the opposite form of life. Presumeably, this process would cause the ship to malfunction, at least temporarily and that's why they land and/or crash on the planet - note we don't actually see the Normandy crash land, just that it's heavily damaged, which may also have occured due to instability/malfunction during the synthesis process as well as the preceding battle.

Anyways, I'm not sure if I'm the only one who misinterpreted the ending, but maybe this helps clear things up for a few people. Since the other ships in the fleet are all controlled by VI's instead of synthetic life forms, we can presume they all would have been fine. 

I'm assuming that the Extended cut will clarify this a bit by showing the direct effects of Shepherd's choice on not only the Reapers but also the Geth and maybe also a shot of EDI's death/synthesis.

In terms of crewmembers being with Joker, I assume the first thing Joker would do when the Citadel's arms opened would be to shoot down to earth and pick up as many surviving crewmembers as he could find - he's that kind of guy. Shepherd was up on the Citadel for who knows how long, so this is somewhat plausible. The extended cut will in all likelihood show him picking up the survivors, possibly also letting us know that several of the Normandy's crew dies (Shepherd's final team in all likelihood).

I honestly still don't like the glowy kid ending - I feel like introducing a new character/entity, (despite a fair bit of foreshadowing), after 99.5% of the story is complete is a bit of a cop out/Deus Ex Machina, that I never really appreciate in storytelling. But, at least everything else has a certain logic to it!

[The Invisible Commando]

Speculation by someone trying to fill a plothole again. Did Joker talk to the starbrat? How can he know what those beams would do? The only logic is that he got scared and ran off.

[jstme]

How Joker knows what the kid told Sheperd and what is that explosion on citadel? Where is the rest of the fleet? Where does Normandy crash if it is not traveling via mass relay - on Mars?
Why they do not land on Earth where even soldiers survived the blast? Why would Normandy crew allow Joker to try and save EDI and not go help Sheperd?
There is no sense, so no need to look for one. It is,like, spiritualy artistic. You do not need to know the answers.

[George Costanza]

That's a real stretch. He couldn't possibly have known what the energy was doing, and even if he saw it coming he wouldn't have had time to pick up the crew members from Earth before flooring it.

[Riddic]

How did Joker even know? Shepard had no contact with anyone. Hackett is yelling where is Shepard, why isn't the Catalyst firing? Then without warning it goes off. So you're saying Joker is telepathic and knew to flee without any communication.

[ediskrad327]

still doesn't explain how a "control" wave damages the Normandy? are we supposed to assume that the entire fleet also crashed on several planets?...oh wait "speculation"

[Norrax]

How Joker knows what the kid told Shepard? that just blows your entire post out of the water!

[LandoCalrisian]

Commando: Joker would have seen the dark energy field washing over the reapers and destroying them, then turned and fled. It wasn't instantaneous, he would've had a minute to see what was going on...

jstme: he would flee in the opposite direction of earth. We don't know what planet the ended up on - Eden Prime or another nearby world with a forest? Also, nobody heard from shepherd before his choice, they probably all think he's dead, and if it was a split second decision, I doubt the crew would hold a vote...

[count_4]

First of all, he wouldn't even see that pulse coming. The only reason we see it is an artistic choice. Were it really that slow, it would take hundreds of years for it to just reach Pluto.
Besides, we can see the relay tunnel collapsing behind the Normandy. So he is indeed running from the beam while in relay transit.

Modifié par count_4, 20 avril 2012 - 03:09 .

[LandoCalrisian]

ediskrad327 wrote...

still doesn't explain how a "control" wave damages the Normandy? are we supposed to assume that the entire fleet also crashed on several planets?...oh wait "speculation"

Read my post - the entire fleet wouldn't crash because they have VI's controlling their systems, NOT synthetic life forms. The Control wave would have put EDI under the domination of Shepherd - who knows if that would result in the ship funtioning perfectly or not? I would assume problems...

[Zardoc]

LandoCalrisian wrote...

Commando: Joker would have seen the dark energy field washing over the reapers and destroying them, then turned and fled. It wasn't instantaneous, he would've had a minute to see what was going on...

jstme: he would flee in the opposite direction of earth. We don't know what planet the ended up on - Eden Prime or another nearby world with a forest? Also, nobody heard from shepherd before his choice, they probably all think he's dead, and if it was a split second decision, I doubt the crew would hold a vote...

Joker had no reason to flee the battle. Period. We also see noone else flee the scene. Hell, we can see the battle in space while standing on the Citadel, talking to Star-Jar. And while not instantaneous, the shockwave was still fast enough to get to the Charon Relay in a matter of moments.

And Eden Prime is quite far away from Earth, as are all the other known Garden Worlds. And there would be no vote because neither your crew nor Joker would just run away, whether Shepard is alive or not. They all knew from the start that this is the definite final battle. They either win there or die trying.

Modifié par Zardoc, 20 avril 2012 - 03:14 .

[count_4]

LandoCalrisian wrote...
The Control wave would have put EDI under the domination of Shepherd 

Sorry, but that's wrong. Only the Reapers are controlled by Shepard.

[StElmo]

How did Joker suddenly know that EDI was in danger? Lol, what a big guess!

[jstme]

LandoCalrisian wrote...

jstme: he would flee in the opposite direction of earth. We don't know what planet the ended up on - Eden Prime or another nearby world with a forest? Also, nobody heard from shepherd before his choice, they probably all think he's dead, and if it was a split second decision, I doubt the crew would hold a vote...

To get to any planet outside Solar system in less then few years Joker needs to go through mass relays. Opposite Earth and in FTL distance are either Sun or other planets of Solar system. That are all forest-less.
As for split-second decision - there is a giant space battle going on. Then there is some kind of explosion on citadel. Joker knows that it is dark energy and it is going to harm EDI in a split second and then ditches the fight for the future of humanity for EDI and the crew does not strangle him? Then it takes a minute until mass relays everywhere go bang bang anhilating the systems they are in.
Normandy had to be traveling via mass relays.

[LandoCalrisian]

count_4 wrote...

LandoCalrisian wrote...
The Control wave would have put EDI under the domination of Shepherd 

Sorry, but that's wrong. Only the Reapers are controlled by Shepard.

Why would the Destroy ending cause the death of all synthetic life, both Reapers and Geth but the Control only the Reapers?

[The Angry One]

Lots of speculation from everyone.

I will now use PRETTY PICTURES to point out one thing.



Seconds after detonation, the Crucible pulse is twice the size of the Citadel and grows larger every second.
The pulse from the Charon relay is much the same.



Why is it so small here? It's not distance, if it were distance it should be covering a far larger area of the background.
The only conclusion is, this is a relay transit, The pulse is a tight beam. Joker fled through the relays. Which he could only have done before the Crucible fired.

Joker is a coward.

[lofte_2000]

The Invisible Commando wrote...

Speculation by someone trying to fill a plothole again. Did Joker talk to the starbrat? How can he know what those beams would do? The only logic is that he got scared and ran off.

My exact thoughts as I read the thread openers post.  Good try though and I was secretly hoping that you had something

[JShepppp]

Cut cutscene had Shep telling Joker to take his squadmates and get out of there. However, now that they took it out, it's all speculation...

[LastFadingSmile]

LandoCalrisian wrote...

jstme: he would flee in the opposite direction of earth. We don't know what planet the ended up on - Eden Prime or another nearby world with a forest? Also, nobody heard from shepherd before his choice, they probably all think he's dead, and if it was a split second decision, I doubt the crew would hold a vote...

See, this is the problem. If he's not in a relay jump, then "conventional" FTL travel isn't fast enough to get them some mysterious, apparently unpopulated garden world in the presumed timeframe we're seeing depicted in the game; especially if what you say is true and it's a split-second decision made at the time that he sees the Crucible energy. Eden Prime is in an entirely different system -- ie, past a relay gate.


Edit: I see Jstme beat me to the punch while I was busy ****footing around with wording.

Edit 2: REALLY, Bioware? fine.    Kittyfooting.

Modifié par Kolotosa, 20 avril 2012 - 03:17 .

[LandoCalrisian]

jstme wrote...

LandoCalrisian wrote...

jstme: he would flee in the opposite direction of earth. We don't know what planet the ended up on - Eden Prime or another nearby world with a forest? Also, nobody heard from shepherd before his choice, they probably all think he's dead, and if it was a split second decision, I doubt the crew would hold a vote...

To get to any planet outside Solar system in less then few years Joker needs to go through mass relays. Opposite Earth and in FTL distance are either Sun or other planets of Solar system. That are all forest-less.
As for split-second decision - there is a giant space battle going on. Then there is some kind of explosion on citadel. Joker knows that it is dark energy and it is going to harm EDI in a split second and then ditches the fight for the future of humanity for EDI and the crew does not strangle him? Then it takes a minute until mass relays everywhere go bang bang anhilating the systems they are in.
Normandy had to be traveling via mass relays.

The Normandy travels between a lot of different solar systems without Mass Relays.... and it doesn't take years. The mass relays help for getting from one side of the milky way to the other, but neighboring solar systems don't seem to take much time at all to move between. 

And before you say there aren't any nearby systems accessible on the CIC starmap, there are plenty of solar systems that come and go in the course of the missions, unlocked as it suits the game's story....

[Zardoc]

JShepppp wrote...

Cut cutscene had Shep telling Joker to take his squadmates and get out of there. However, now that they took it out, it's all speculation...

Say what? 

LandoCalrisian wrote...

jstme wrote...

LandoCalrisian wrote...

jstme: he would flee in the opposite direction of earth. We don't know what planet the ended up on - Eden Prime or another nearby world with a forest? Also, nobody heard from shepherd before his choice, they probably all think he's dead, and if it was a split second decision, I doubt the crew would hold a vote...

To get to any planet outside Solar system in less then few years Joker needs to go through mass relays. Opposite Earth and in FTL distance are either Sun or other planets of Solar system. That are all forest-less.
As for split-second decision - there is a giant space battle going on. Then there is some kind of explosion on citadel. Joker knows that it is dark energy and it is going to harm EDI in a split second and then ditches the fight for the future of humanity for EDI and the crew does not strangle him? Then it takes a minute until mass relays everywhere go bang bang anhilating the systems they are in. 
Normandy had to be traveling via mass relays.

The Normandy travels between a lot of different solar systems without Mass Relays.... and it doesn't take years. The mass relays help for getting from one side of the milky way to the other, but neighboring solar systems don't seem to take much time at all to move between. 

And before you say there aren't any nearby systems accessible on the CIC starmap, there are plenty of solar systems that come and go in the course of the missions, unlocked as it suits the game's story....

 

There are still no known Garden Worlds within FTL distance of Earth.

Modifié par Zardoc, 20 avril 2012 - 03:18 .

[The Angry One]

JShepppp wrote...

Cut cutscene had Shep telling Joker to take his squadmates and get out of there. However, now that they took it out, it's all speculation...

There was no such cutscene.
It wouldn't matter if there was, because Shepard doesn't have the authority to make such an order and Joker (the real Joker) would never obey it.

[Geneaux486]

I think it's as simple as Joker just trying to avoid an explosion. Loyal as he is he more than likely would have gone back afterward.

[BlackAlpha]

I always thought Joker was simply using FTL at that point. Which makes sense. Things start exploding, so Joker/EDI tries to escape the blast.

Modifié par BlackAlpha, 20 avril 2012 - 03:19 .

[Zardoc]

The Angry One wrote...

JShepppp wrote...

Cut cutscene had Shep telling Joker to take his squadmates and get out of there. However, now that they took it out, it's all speculation...

There was no such cutscene.
It wouldn't matter if there was, because Shepard doesn't have the authority to make such an order and Joker (the real Joker) would never obey it.

Nor would Shepard ever give such an order given the situation, especially a Renegade. You know, victory at any cost?

Geneaux486 wrote...

I think it's as simple as Joker just trying to avoid an explosion. Loyal as he is he more than likely would have gone back afterward.

 

Then why do we not see anyone else try and flee from that explosion? How is the Normandy suddenly in relay transit? Had he been in the space battle (as he was supposed to be) he wouldn't have been fast enough to react to the burst of energy released by the Crucible, given that the battle was right next to the Citadel.

Modifié par Zardoc, 20 avril 2012 - 03:21 .