178 réponses à ce sujet

[count_4]

LandoCalrisian wrote...
Why would the Destroy ending cause the death of all synthetic life, both Reapers and Geth but the Control only the Reapers?

Because Destroy is like a giant EMP kill switch. It's brute force and kills everything resembling a synthetic lifeform (almost as nonsensical as Synthethis but anyway).
Control is entirely different. Remember, the Catalyst already controls the Reapers. All the pulse does is transfer this control to Shepard. 
Probably best envisioned as a kind of firmware update. The Reapers already have this control mechanism in them whereas regular synthetics are just hardware running some sort of software. No way to just suddenly control them.

[ticklefist]

Head canon masquerading as author intent.

AGAIN.

[LandoCalrisian]

Zardoc wrote...



There are still no known Garden Worlds within FTL distance of Earth.

How do you know? Do you really assume that the starmap has every Garden World listed on it? That would put only about 100 different planets in the milky way...

[Alent]

Guys. GUYS. I figured out why Joker is fleeing at the end:








Bad writing.

[The Protheans]

WTF did I just read.

So joker who was flying that Normandy picked up his lover on Earth and then fleed when he should of been fighting.
Don't get me wrong you tried but I don't see how he would know that the shock from the mass relay which should of already hit him by the time he realised what was going made any sense.
He starting fleeing before the crucible even light up the citadel.

[LastFadingSmile]

LandoCalrisian wrote...

The Normandy travels between a lot of different solar systems without Mass Relays.... and it doesn't take years. The mass relays help for getting from one side of the milky way to the other, but neighboring solar systems don't seem to take much time at all to move between. 

And before you say there aren't any nearby systems accessible on the CIC starmap, there are plenty of solar systems that come and go in the course of the missions, unlocked as it suits the game's story....

No, it doesn't take years. It does take hours, though. Just how long a timeframe do you presume the ending sequence, specifically the, using your own theory, "split-second decision to run to save EDI" and the getting swallowed by the Colour Wheel occurs across? And do you really think that if there was a habitable garden world so close to Earth that it was that easily accessible that they wouldn't have already found it, colonised it, and probably lost it to the Reapers as well?

I mean, I'm all for the suspension of disbelief and everything, but that's seems like a wee bit of a stretch.

[The Angry One]

Geneaux486 wrote...

I think it's as simple as Joker just trying to avoid an explosion. Loyal as he is he more than likely would have gone back afterward.

He wouldn't have to avoid it if he hadn't fled through the relays.
Let me remind everyone that the crucible and relay pulses are going at sublight velocity.

[Zardoc]

LandoCalrisian wrote...

Zardoc wrote...



There are still no known Garden Worlds within FTL distance of Earth.

How do you know? Do you really assume that the starmap has every Garden World listed on it? That would put only about 100 different planets in the milky way...

Not the point. If there were Garden Worlds in FTL distance of Earth, humanity would have settlements there already. Yet we never see any indication there are any. 

Modifié par Zardoc, 20 avril 2012 - 03:26 .

[EricHVela]

Alent wrote...

Guys. GUYS. I figured out why Joker is fleeing at the end:

Bad writing.

It was rushed.

[Geneaux486]

Zardoc wrote...
Then why do we not see anyone else try and flee from that explosion?

 
Ask the developers, how should I know?

How is the Normandy suddenly in relay transit? Had he been in the space battle (as he was supposed to be) he wouldn't have been fast enough to react to the burst of energy released by the Crucible, given that the battle was right next to the Citadel.

We've seen the Normandy instantly pop out of danger zones before.  Two of the encounters with Collector ships, and the derelict Reaper incident come to mind.

[count_4]

LandoCalrisian wrote...
How do you know? Do you really assume that the starmap has every Garden World listed on it? That would put only about 100 different planets in the milky way...

The next star system is 4ly away, which would take Joker 8 hours to reach. Which is FTL distance but irrelevant for this ending as it's still too long.

Modifié par count_4, 20 avril 2012 - 03:28 .

[txmn1016]

JShepppp wrote...

Cut cutscene had Shep telling Joker to take his squadmates and get out of there. However, now that they took it out, it's all speculation...

Yep, this.  Saw a pastebin of stuff that was cut from the final product and that was pretty much it.  I'm really hoping they don't just stick that scene back in.  <_<

[Zardoc]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Zardoc wrote...
Then why do we not see anyone else try and flee from that explosion?

 
Ask the developers, how should I know?

How is the Normandy suddenly in relay transit? Had he been in the space battle (as he was supposed to be) he wouldn't have been fast enough to react to the burst of energy released by the Crucible, given that the battle was right next to the Citadel.

We've seen the Normandy instantly pop out of danger zones before.  Two of the encounters with Collector ships, and the derelict Reaper incident come to mind.

Yeah, big difference. In these 2 situations the main goal actually was to get the hell away. And even then it still tooks them some time. 

[Sekrev]

jstme wrote...

How Joker knows what the kid told Sheperd and what is that explosion on citadel? Where is the rest of the fleet? Where does Normandy crash if it is not traveling via mass relay - on Mars?
Why they do not land on Earth where even soldiers survived the blast? Why would Normandy crew allow Joker to try and save EDI and not go help Sheperd?
There is no sense, so no need to look for one. It is,like, spiritualy artistic. You do not need to know the answers.

The only logic for this I could imagine, is that Shepard is setting out to defeat/destroy the Reapers, which Joker knows. The Normandy has the IFF, which is reaper tech, and thus could make them vulnerable if the Crucible starts firing and destroying all reaper tech. If Joker or EDI, or anyone on the Normandy knows the Crucible has began firing, that would be a good reason for them to run like hell. Though must have been easier to just, you know, land the damned thing on the planet it's orbiting.

[LandoCalrisian]

Zardoc wrote...



Not the point. If there were Garden Worlds in FTL distance of Earth, humanity would have settlements there already. Yet we never see any indication there are any. 
And AFAIK we (IRL) haven't found any Garden Worlds anywhere near us either. 

1st of all, the planet they land on might have a colony, we don't know that it's uninhabited. For example, Earth is inhabited but I'm pretty sure that there will still be some uninhabited forested valleys somewhere or other for the next thousand years or so...

2nd, just because we never see any indication, just means they didn't fit into the ME story yet.

[The Angry One]

The problem with the IFF is that control and synthesis do absolutely nothing to Reaper tech, and yet we still get the same results.
And this still assumes Joker has the clairvoyance to know that there's going to be a pulse, when it's going to fire and that he needs to outrun it.

.. wait actually no. They know the Crucible is supposed to affect all Reapers everywhere, either destroying them or making them go away somehow... so why does he think he can outrun it!?

Joker. It's going to affect the entire galaxy, you moron. There's nowhere to run.

Modifié par The Angry One, 20 avril 2012 - 03:31 .

[Robhuzz]

JShepppp wrote...

Cut cutscene had Shep telling Joker to take his squadmates and get out of there. However, now that they took it out, it's all speculation...

Even if that had remained in there, the squadmembers were spread all over. 2 of them were at the beam, the rest were fighting somewhere else. And even if he could've picked all of them up somehow, Hackett never gave the order to retreat. Joker knew they would either win or fight to the death there so there's no way he would've fled.

The scene just makes no sense no matter how you try to look at it, I guess they did in on purpose to fit with the rest of the ending.

[Alent]

ReggarBlane wrote...

Alent wrote...

Guys. GUYS. I figured out why Joker is fleeing at the end:

Bad writing.

It was rushed.

my point stands = p

I don't try to make sense out of it, it's not worth asking why joker fled when the whole situation is so nonsensical.  Just accept it for what it is: bad writing.  We can quarrel about what caused it to be bad later.

Speaking of, I'd love to get an explanation to all of this: what really did happen while the ending was being written.  I heard walters and hudson locked themselves away but I'm pretty sure that was just a rumor.  I would really like to know what series of decisions led up to this - it could be a cautionary tale in future game design textbooks / writing workshops.

[zarnk567]

Keep on speculating OP keep on speculating..... meanwhile I'm gonna be over imagining that joker has ESP and could read Shepard's mind during the whole Star-brat conversation and that's how he knew to turn traitor and run. Besides the obvious logical conclusion.....bad writing/one heck of a rushed ending.

Modifié par zarnk567, 20 avril 2012 - 03:32 .

[txmn1016]

Robhuzz wrote...

JShepppp wrote...

Cut cutscene had Shep telling Joker to take his squadmates and get out of there. However, now that they took it out, it's all speculation...

Even if that had remained in there, the squadmembers were spread all over. 2 of them were at the beam, the rest were fighting somewhere else. And even if he could've picked all of them up somehow, Hackett never gave the order to retreat. Joker knew they would either win or fight to the death there so there's no way he would've fled.

The scene just makes no sense no matter how you try to look at it, I guess they did in on purpose to fit with the rest of the ending.

Yeah, it definitely still wouldn't make much sense--which is why I'm personally hoping they don't just stick that cutscene back in there.  And if they do stick it back in, I'm hoping that they at least make it where the two squaddies that were with you in the final push can't come out of the Normandy at the end. 

Honestly, I don't see them taking out, but I have no suggestions as to what could redeem it either.  I get the feeling that we'll be stuck with all of these lingering questions even after the Ending DLC is released.

[jstme]

LandoCalrisian wrote...

jstme wrote...

LandoCalrisian wrote...

jstme: he would flee in the opposite direction of earth. We don't know what planet the ended up on - Eden Prime or another nearby world with a forest? Also, nobody heard from shepherd before his choice, they probably all think he's dead, and if it was a split second decision, I doubt the crew would hold a vote...

To get to any planet outside Solar system in less then few years Joker needs to go through mass relays. Opposite Earth and in FTL distance are either Sun or other planets of Solar system. That are all forest-less.
As for split-second decision - there is a giant space battle going on. Then there is some kind of explosion on citadel. Joker knows that it is dark energy and it is going to harm EDI in a split second and then ditches the fight for the future of humanity for EDI and the crew does not strangle him? Then it takes a minute until mass relays everywhere go bang bang anhilating the systems they are in.
Normandy had to be traveling via mass relays.

The Normandy travels between a lot of different solar systems without Mass Relays.... and it doesn't take years. The mass relays help for getting from one side of the milky way to the other, but neighboring solar systems don't seem to take much time at all to move between. 

And before you say there aren't any nearby systems accessible on the CIC starmap, there are plenty of solar systems that come and go in the course of the missions, unlocked as it suits the game's story....

You are completely correct and it does not take years to travel between star systems using FTL if we accept the (12 light years less then a day trip) only known to me speed of FTL description in ME universe.
But still - closest star to Sun is 4.2 light years away. This will take few hours. And the wave is considerably faster then Normandy as the ending shows,whatever Normandy uses - FTL or mass relay. But if Joker fled after the citadel explosion he could not have hours on FTL to get to closest star. Because,again, the wave is noticably faster.
And if he fled after picking other squad traito... members - he used FTL and not mass relay because....?     

[Geneaux486]

Zardoc wrote...
Yeah, big difference. In these 2 situations the main goal actually was to get the hell away. And even then it still tooks them some time. 

It didn't take time in the case of the Brown Dwarf, aside from Joker waiting for Shepard to get back to the ship.  Same with the encounter at the Collector Ship trap.  And as for getting the hell away, like I said, Joker was probably avoiding the giant-ass energy pulse.  He had no reason to think the thing would keep following him and spread through the galaxy, he was, like I said, probably trying to avoid it.

[leeboi2]

For the last time, HE DIDN'T GO THROUGH THE RELAY!

[The Angry One]

leeboi2 wrote...

For the last time, HE DIDN'T GO THROUGH THE RELAY!

Prove it. My pictures say otherwise. The fact that the crucible pulse is not faster than light says otherwise.

[The Angry One]

Geneaux486 wrote...

It didn't take time in the case of the Brown Dwarf, aside from Joker waiting for Shepard to get back to the ship.  Same with the encounter at the Collector Ship trap.  And as for getting the hell away, like I said, Joker was probably avoiding the giant-ass energy pulse.  He had no reason to think the thing would keep following him and spread through the galaxy, he was, like I said, probably trying to avoid it.

No reason to believe it's galaxy wide? THAT WAS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE CRUCIBLE.
You're basically saying Joker is thicker than canadian bacon.

Modifié par The Angry One, 20 avril 2012 - 03:43 .