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Just Realized why Joker is fleeing at the end.


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#151
Lonsecia

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LandoCalrisian wrote...

 I just finished my second playthrough - first time around I couldn't figure out why Joker was fleeing from the beam/laser/cloud - I thought it was the same beam that was bouncing around the Mass Effect Relays and destroying them, but that isn't the case, as now seems obvoius to me.

In all of the endings there's a red/pink energy field that washes over Earth and the universe, either destroying the reapers, putting them under Shepherd's control or synthesizing organic and synthetic life. That's what Joker is running from, not the Relay Destruction Beam or whatever bounces between the relays.

The glowy kid on the Citadel mentions that Shepherd will destroy/control/synthesize synthetic life, "including the geth" and the reapers, but since EDI has become a living synthetic (as revealed in her final chat with Shepherd), she would of course also affected. Joker is trying to outrun the cloud to save his lover. He is fully aware that she has similarities to the Reapers and the Geth, and seeing the red cloud that wiped them out approaching would of course cause Joker to turn and try to escape it.

EDI has a triple nature as both ship and individual robot and software in the span of ME3, remember, so we can consider both the EVA body, the ship and her code itself as "Synthetic Life".

Therefore, in the Destroy ending, the ship is sufficiently screwed by her annhilation that it crashes and she's nowhere to be seen afterwards.

In the Control ending, she has lost all free will and become a slave to Shepherd and therefore wouldn't functionally exist either since her "life/consciousness/free will" would no longer be there to control her body/ship/software code. Presumably this also causes the Normandy to malfunction/crash since she was controlling pretty much all ship's systems.

In the synthesis ending, she survives and her and Joker are products of synthesis - maybe he's become part of the ship and the ship (EDI) has become part of him? Or in any case he and EDI are each synthesized with the opposite form of life. Presumeably, this process would cause the ship to malfunction, at least temporarily and that's why they land and/or crash on the planet - note we don't actually see the Normandy crash land, just that it's heavily damaged, which may also have occured due to instability/malfunction during the synthesis process as well as the preceding battle.

Anyways, I'm not sure if I'm the only one who misinterpreted the ending, but maybe this helps clear things up for a few people. Since the other ships in the fleet are all controlled by VI's instead of synthetic life forms, we can presume they all would have been fine. 

I'm assuming that the Extended cut will clarify this a bit by showing the direct effects of Shepherd's choice on not only the Reapers but also the Geth and maybe also a shot of EDI's death/synthesis.

In terms of crewmembers being with Joker, I assume the first thing Joker would do when the Citadel's arms opened would be to shoot down to earth and pick up as many surviving crewmembers as he could find - he's that kind of guy. Shepherd was up on the Citadel for who knows how long, so this is somewhat plausible. The extended cut will in all likelihood show him picking up the survivors, possibly also letting us know that several of the Normandy's crew dies (Shepherd's final team in all likelihood).

I honestly still don't like the glowy kid ending - I feel like introducing a new character/entity, (despite a fair bit of foreshadowing), after 99.5% of the story is complete is a bit of a cop out/Deus Ex Machina, that I never really appreciate in storytelling. But, at least everything else has a certain logic to it!


The major issue I see with this is that it implies the Normandy/Joker is in direct contact with Shep throughout the ending, and that the crew members on Earth are perfectly okay with saving their own bacon, but not Shep's. 

As it stands, the only person who appears to even have any contact with Shep is Hackett, and even that's one-way.

Also, even if Joker was able to convince them all the abandon Shep, there's the other issue of how close the active crew members were to the beam. I honestly don't see Harbinger letting that ship get anywhere near close enough, or be there long enough to pick up survivors.

It's established right from the very beginning that the Reapers can hit ships pretty easily, and considering how slowly it'sd have to be moving, I would guess that the Normandy not only being bigger than the shuttles from the beginning (the ones that the boy is on with all the soldiers), but also being so close would make it a priority target.

At least that's how I see it.

#152
Zaalbar

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anlk92 wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

This "why is Joker running away" is perhaps the most pathetic of the retaker questions. I say this because the answer is so strikingly obvious:

He is going away from the explosion, because otherwise he would die. duh. It is not at all uncharacteristic of him to try to save his beloved ship (think of ME2 beginning) and the "woman" he loves, that is basically the ship again.

There is a plothole only for those trying to dig one themselves. Quit it, people.


Yes, almost everyone who has played the game is trying to dig a plothole out of nothing. Congratulations you're on to us.

Joker did a p*** poor job of saving the ship he loves. Did you see the Normandy in the last scene? Its a write off. I'm just surprised anyone survived. He should have just taken his chances with the Skittles shockwave.

It also interesting to note that these shockwaves appear to have a personal vendetta towards the Normandy as it doesn't appear to harm the buildings, or people on earth. It reminds me of the Nexus in Star Trek Generation. In space it trashes everything in its path but when passing through a planet, Its completely harmless and non destructive. Maybe Joker should have just landed the ship on earth given the shockwaves ozone friendliness.

#153
The Angry One

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zaalbar76 wrote...

Joker did a p*** poor job of saving the ship he loves. Did you see the Normandy in the last scene? Its a write off. I'm just surprised anyone survived. He should have just taken his chances with the Skittles shockwave.

It also interesting to note that these shockwaves appear to have a personal vendetta towards the Normandy as it doesn't appear to harm the buildings, or people on earth. It reminds me of the Nexus in Star Trek Generation. In space it trashes everything in its path but when passing through a planet, Its completely harmless and non destructive. Maybe Joker should have just landed the ship on earth given the shockwaves ozone friendliness.


That or the pulse beam in the relay transit is far more concentrated and thus highly destructive.
This part is actually logical..... as logical as space magic can get anyway.

What isn't logical is why Joker's stupid ass was using the relays in the first place, and it implies that if he had just sit still with the fleet everything would've been okay.

#154
lillitheris

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Written earlier...

Summary: it takes 5 HOURS to get to Charon from Earth, and it takes at least 10 HOURS to fly from Sol to the nearest habitable planet in FTL.

So, no.


I'm just going to repost this, because you're completely ignoring this.

You must explain this problem before even broaching the issue of why Joker is fleeing.

This thread has a longer discussion on that topic. And others.

Modifié par lillitheris, 21 avril 2012 - 12:11 .


#155
KennyAshes

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The Angry One wrote...

zaalbar76 wrote...

Joker did a p*** poor job of saving the ship he loves. Did you see the Normandy in the last scene? Its a write off. I'm just surprised anyone survived. He should have just taken his chances with the Skittles shockwave.

It also interesting to note that these shockwaves appear to have a personal vendetta towards the Normandy as it doesn't appear to harm the buildings, or people on earth. It reminds me of the Nexus in Star Trek Generation. In space it trashes everything in its path but when passing through a planet, Its completely harmless and non destructive. Maybe Joker should have just landed the ship on earth given the shockwaves ozone friendliness.


That or the pulse beam in the relay transit is far more concentrated and thus highly destructive.
This part is actually logical..... as logical as space magic can get anyway.

What isn't logical is why Joker's stupid ass was using the relays in the first place, and it implies that if he had just sit still with the fleet everything would've been okay.


Adding another unlogical thing : stranding on a planet that supports life when you are just wrecked at FTL speeds. If the Mass Relay opens a path to another solarsystem the path must be predefined thus the Normandy did crash on a known location. But the chance of hitting a life-supporting-planet with a wrecked ship is like throwing down a needle, getting in a plane with a pilot that doesn't know where it is and jumping out of the plane blindfolded to land exactly on the needle.

#156
Tamuzzi

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lillitheris wrote...

Written earlier...

Summary: it takes 5 HOURS to get to Charon from Earth, and it takes at least 10 HOURS to fly from Sol to the nearest habitable planet in FTL.

So, no.


I'm just going to repost this, because you're completely ignoring this.

You must explain this problem before even broaching the issue of why Joker is fleeing.

This thread has a longer discussion on that topic. And others.


That quote is wrong. It takes light itself about 5 hours to travel from Earth to the Charon relay, ergo a ship travelling at faster than light would take significantly less time to reach the relay. I am not saying that solves anything, it just irks me that amids al this speculation things that are actually knowable get misrepresented.

Just to add to it, if that second claim is correct (ten hours from Sol to nearest inhabitable planet), and if for the sake of argument you take that planet to circle the starsystem nearest to Sol itself (Alpha Centauri, which is a little over 4 lightyears distant), then using that information to calculate the time it would actually take to fly from Earth to the Charon relay you would find it takes less than 5 seconds.

And since the nearest inhabitable planet is probably not within one of the closestby starsystems, it might actually take a whole lot less than those 5 seconds.

edited for clarification clarity, even :whistle:

Modifié par Tamuzzi, 21 avril 2012 - 01:44 .


#157
Zaalbar

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KennyAshes wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

zaalbar76 wrote...

Joker did a p*** poor job of saving the ship he loves. Did you see the Normandy in the last scene? Its a write off. I'm just surprised anyone survived. He should have just taken his chances with the Skittles shockwave.

It also interesting to note that these shockwaves appear to have a personal vendetta towards the Normandy as it doesn't appear to harm the buildings, or people on earth. It reminds me of the Nexus in Star Trek Generation. In space it trashes everything in its path but when passing through a planet, Its completely harmless and non destructive. Maybe Joker should have just landed the ship on earth given the shockwaves ozone friendliness.


That or the pulse beam in the relay transit is far more concentrated and thus highly destructive.
This part is actually logical..... as logical as space magic can get anyway.

What isn't logical is why Joker's stupid ass was using the relays in the first place, and it implies that if he had just sit still with the fleet everything would've been okay.


Adding another unlogical thing : stranding on a planet that supports life when you are just wrecked at FTL speeds. If the Mass Relay opens a path to another solarsystem the path must be predefined thus the Normandy did crash on a known location. But the chance of hitting a life-supporting-planet with a wrecked ship is like throwing down a needle, getting in a plane with a pilot that doesn't know where it is and jumping out of the plane blindfolded to land exactly on the needle.

Another big WTF moment is how the hell did Joker land the Nomandy in the first place. That Shockwave was quite literally removing parts of the ship at FTL speeds, he some how managed to come out of FTL right next to a conveniently placed earth like planet, survive reentry then land this ship without disturbing the surrounding flora.
He did all that with a ship that's missing half if not all of its engines
That's like a Passanger jet loosing its wings then have the pilot managing to bring the the craft down to safely land at the terminal it was scheduled for. I know Joker's good but I don't think he's magic.

Modifié par zaalbar76, 21 avril 2012 - 03:44 .


#158
greghorvath

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yes, please use physics and other disciplines to explain discrepancies in a story where there is FASTER THAN LIGHT travel, a race of sentient machines that wipe out sentient life every once in a while leaving no trace (but leaving some anyway), aliens speaking english, and so on and so forth. One could cite weird things from the mass effect franchise till the break of dawn. But they simply do not matter. They just don't.

You guys are hung up over things, that, with a little imagination could be swept aside in the blink of an eye. What this demonstrates is that most of you come from a world where people are used to someone else imagining things for them instead of using those capacities that actually make it worth wile being human. Yes, I mean thinking and imagination. And yes, contrary to some poor soul's earlier comment, I am capable of thinking. Not only capable, but willing, qualified and certified that I can.

However, many threads on the BSN (and years of personal experience) have proven that it is absolutely futile to try to explain something to someone unwilling (not incapable, just unwilling) to listen to what the other party is saying.

I will not delude myself by thinking many are capable of rising beyond their childish anger about the toy they think someone else spoiled for them, and anger that there is actually someone who dares to disagree. I am only posting this because I hope there will be at least one who will THINK, instead of flame. The rest do not matter.

I am done with this issue. For good.

#159
The Vanquished1

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And yet he still walked away from the crash brittle bones and all. :)

#160
zarnk567

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greghorvath wrote...

yes, please use physics and other disciplines to explain discrepancies in a story where there is FASTER THAN LIGHT travel, a race of sentient machines that wipe out sentient life every once in a while leaving no trace (but leaving some anyway), aliens speaking english, and so on and so forth. One could cite weird things from the mass effect franchise till the break of dawn. But they simply do not matter. They just don't.

You guys are hung up over things, that, with a little imagination could be swept aside in the blink of an eye. What this demonstrates is that most of you come from a world where people are used to someone else imagining things for them instead of using those capacities that actually make it worth wile being human. Yes, I mean thinking and imagination. And yes, contrary to some poor soul's earlier comment, I am capable of thinking. Not only capable, but willing, qualified and certified that I can.

However, many threads on the BSN (and years of personal experience) have proven that it is absolutely futile to try to explain something to someone unwilling (not incapable, just unwilling) to listen to what the other party is saying.

I will not delude myself by thinking many are capable of rising beyond their childish anger about the toy they think someone else spoiled for them, and anger that there is actually someone who dares to disagree. I am only posting this because I hope there will be at least one who will THINK, instead of flame. The rest do not matter.

I am done with this issue. For good.


Cool story, bro.

#161
The Vanquished1

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cue Roy Orbison "Just Runnin' Scared."

#162
Verit

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Especially in the case of the Normandy running from the battle, I think we're speculating about something that even Bioware themselves don't have the answer to. I think it's obvious the ending was altered at some point, perhaps due to lack of time, and a lot of stuff was cut to the point where a lot of things just didn't make sense anymore. And it's disappointing to see Bioware actually defending that ending when they're fully aware it's completely nonsensical. From what little they've answered regarding our questions about what actually happened, it's painfully apparent they're scrambling to find the answers. And the fact that they don't want to deviate from they've already shown to us makes it all the more difficult for them to fix the ending.

#163
GLR-0053

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Looks like we have more: Space Magic:The Speculating

I'm still sticking with my own assertion that Joker was suddenly hit with jungle fever. :P

#164
Uigy

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http://www.youtube.c...X1q4hIgSk#t=775

 

Leaving Earth and Shepard 

 

1. Admiral Hackett ordered them  to leave.

AND YES I know Joker doesn't usually follow orders.

This leads my second claim.

 

2. Joker didn't want to leave. As you can see in the video link above he almost stayed but two squad members will always tell him "we have to leave." no matter what ending. Green, blue, and red alike 

 

The crash

1. They crashed because they were hit by the beam.

 

2.  Joker got off the ship just fine because if you actually played Mass Effect 2 you would have saw that the SR-2 crashed onto the collector ship after going through the omega-4 relay, and was just fine. Just a few broken bones. The ship would have basicly 'softened' the fall.

 

3. Joker is the best dang pilot in the alliance fleet. he would have made sure to land a certain way to avoid as many casualties as possible in the crash landing.

 

Now i know someone is going to nitpick at my response but i have ample ways to back up my claims 

 

It makes me so angry about how people have to find some way to complain about a great game just to make them feel better about an ending.

 

And in my Opinion I like the ending. It makes sense to me. Because ever since the beacon on Eden Prime, Shepard''s destiny was to save the galaxy. One way or another. All your decisions before the ME3 ending have an effect on the galaxy. It is fitting that Shepard, again in my opinion, the person the Reapers considered a threat, was to die to in order to defeat/control the Reapers or synthesize organics and synthetics, to fulfill this destiny.


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#165
Farangbaa

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Holy mother of Necro.



#166
CronoDragoon

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First welcome to the forum.

 

Second, this thread is over 2 years old and was made even before the EC was released, so some of your points weren't in existence then. :P

 

Maybe make a new topic if you want to talk about this?



#167
Uigy

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Sorry D: i Just opened a link and replied without looking at the date, i do it quite often ._.

And why i usually don't post on forums o_o

 

sooooooooooooo 

I might but id rather make another topic and get people all bothered about something again. 



#168
RZIBARA

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and how does joker know what the crucible does? lol no. He's running because bad writing



#169
dreamgazer

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and how does joker know what the crucible does? lol no. He's running because bad writing

 

Could be wrong, but I think the majority of people's responses to an approaching energy wave, no matter if they know what it does or not, would be: "RUN!"



#170
RZIBARA

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Could be wrong, but I think the majority of people's responses to an approaching energy wave, no matter if they know what it does or not, would be: "RUN!"

 

I wouldn't, I'd fly into it



#171
dreamgazer

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I wouldn't, I'd fly into it

 

#YOLOSWAG



#172
RZIBARA

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#YOLOSWAG

 

#YOLOSWAG4/20BLAZZZZEE



#173
themikefest

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http://www.youtube.c...X1q4hIgSk#t=775

 

Leaving Earth and Shepard 

 

2. Joker didn't want to leave. As you can see in the video link above he almost stayed but two squad members will always tell him "we have to leave." no matter what ending. Green, blue, and red alike 

 

Who are the two squadmembers that tell Joker to leave?

 

Depending on your playthrough, you can have no one to tell him to leave. He just turns his head to his right and says damn. Samantha will always be in the scene and says nothing



#174
Tyrannosaurus Rex

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Could be wrong, but I think the majority of people's responses to an approaching energy wave, no matter if they know what it does or not, would be: "RUN!"

 

Yes, becaus trying to outrun an energy wave that is going to catch up to you no matter what is such a brilliant idea.



#175
dreamgazer

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Yes, becaus trying to outrun an energy wave that is going to catch up to you no matter what is such a brilliant idea.

 

Getting to a relay before it happens? Maybe.  Better than clamming up or Leeeeeeroy Jenkins-ing it.


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