121 réponses à ce sujet

[RedSteel23]

maxtofunator wrote...

How is it the best gun? It is ONLY useful in CQC, and even then, you have to be overly careful when you use it. If there are more than 3 enemies around you, you're dead. Simple as that. I'm not saying other guns are the best gun either, but the claymore's problems are rather large to qualify it as the best gun. I use it on my battlemaster but that is it. I go with my Katana for more reliable kills on an infiltrator, because I don't have the health to sit there and take face bullets while reloading

ONLY? Um, I can easily use this gun to snipe across the map and take out two or more weaker enemies, or do impressive damage to everything else. I am not sure how you are using it, but it does that just fine. I prefer to be up close, but anything far like an Atlas is just ripped to shreds, even at range. This gun is godly in the hands of a Salarian too. Use cloak, bonus power energy drain, shoot. Everything dies. I can do Gold without going down once or a single point into health or shields, and I am not a great player by any means. Claymore might not be the best shotgun by opinion to some, or the best to the others, but this gun is versatile enough to be used from any distance with impressive results. 

[lolpunch]

Slap that gun onto a GI with Choke and Hunter Mode accuracy boosts. Turns into a sniper rifle that bypasses shield gate. I use it more often for sniping than actual sniper rifles.

[Trickshavv]

^ That's how I play. Choke + EB. Also the fact that Claymore has head shot bonus while GPS does not is another reason why I prefer it.

[KainD]

People that put Claymore on a GI, just lol. I can really understand other infiltrators, but geth really better of with a GPS, and that is not subjective since he get's the extra 10% free damage bonus.

[Rosalina is my BabyCakes]

The smart choke barley adds any accuracy what's so ever. So does it really make an difference.

I only use damage and AP

[TOMMOEX]

Air Quotes wrote...

Geth Infiltrator + Claymore = OWNAGE. Much better than sniping even, because Claymore ignores shieldgate. It's almost too easy.

The key word here is geth inflitrator, its damage bonus is insane! on gold they drop like dead flies, and with claymore oh god...

[lolpunch]

KainD wrote...

People that put Claymore on a GI, just lol. I can really understand other infiltrators, but geth really better of with a GPS, and that is not subjective since he get's the extra 10% free damage bonus.

I use the Claymore because the GPS is overpowered and boring to use.  It doesn't have the visceral feel that I feel a shotgun should have, and the GPS is so broken that you can slap it onto any class and do well with it.  Feels like I'm not even playing the damn game when I use the GPS, and when I start to feel like that, there's a problem.  

[Shepard Wins]

I've just switched from Claymore I to Katana VI on my Batarian Soldier for better Ballistic Blades cooldown. Profits!

The Claymore is powerful but sloooow as hell and heavy, too.

[KainD]

lolpunch wrote...
I use the Claymore because the GPS is overpowered and boring to use.  It doesn't have the visceral feel that I feel a shotgun should have, and the GPS is so broken that you can slap it onto any class and do well with it.  Feels like I'm not even playing the damn game when I use the GPS, and when I start to feel like that, there's a problem.  

Best fair response. I like to have 100k more points than everyone else though, it's fun for me. 

[Cayse]

KainD wrote...

People that put Claymore on a GI, just lol. I can really understand other infiltrators, but geth really better of with a GPS, and that is not subjective since he get's the extra 10% free damage bonus.

Heads are structural weaknesses. Plasma shotguns do not use them.

[RamsenC]

KainD wrote...

People that put Claymore on a GI, just lol. I can really understand other infiltrators, but geth really better of with a GPS, and that is not subjective since he get's the extra 10% free damage bonus.

The Clamore can do things the GPS is not capable of, while still being able to one shot enemies. Things like pierce and headshots. That means more damage against Atlases, Primes, Phantoms (and other things with heads), Brutes with armor, and things behind cover. You can use the GPS tracking to hook around cover at times, but it's not always reliable. GPS (or Graal) is better than the Claymore on most classes due to weight, but for Inf, the Claymore is the way to go. GPS is far easier to use though.

I also hate having to charge before cloaking, but that's just me. 

Modifié par RamsenC, 20 avril 2012 - 07:01 .

[We Tigers]

I notice a big change from with smart choke to without. I do most of my claymoring at midrange, though.

[KainD]

RamsenC wrote...

The Clamore can do things the GPS is not capable of, while still being able to one shot enemies. Things like pierce and headshots. That means more damage against Atlases, Primes, Phantoms (and other things with heads), Brutes with armor, and things behind cover. You can use the GPS tracking to hook around cover at times, but it's not always reliable. GPS (or Graal) is better than the Claymore on most classes due to weight, but for Inf, the Claymore is the way to go.

I also hate having to charge before cloaking, but that's just me. 

Atlases - the only thing Claymore does a LITTLE better since they won't stagger and GPS needs more time to shoot the whole clip, being exposed to said atlas. Primes are stunned, so there is no problem there. Phantoms die from one shot from both Claymore and GPS, the only difference is that with GPS you don't aim for the head. Brutes die better from GPS, because they die in a single clip while claymore needs reload. I blast people out of cover with a proximity mine. Also if GPS wasn't a charge weapon I wouldn't use it, even if it had more buff damage without the charge. 

Modifié par KainD, 20 avril 2012 - 07:04 .

[KainD]

Cayse wrote...

Heads are structural weaknesses. Plasma shotguns do not use them.

Yes, but it doesn't matter with the DPS GPS puts out. 

[Axialbloom]

So is the increased accuracy mod worth it? Or is it best go damage and AP?

[DCko]

LOL. I outscore GPS users with my claymore. Just saying. I don't care about points.

But if you don't recognize claymore and it's awesomeness. Then you aren't playing the game right. not reload canceling, or just not trying out that shotty at all.

[Arkley]

KainD wrote...
Atlases - the only thing Claymore does a LITTLE better since they won't stagger and GPS needs more time to shoot the whole clip, being exposed to said atlas. Primes are stunned, so there is no problem there. Phantoms die from one shot from both Claymore and GPS, the only difference is that with GPS you don't aim for the head. Brutes die better from GPS, because they die in a single clip while claymore needs reload. I blast people out of cover with a proximity mine. Also if GPS wasn't a charge weapon I wouldn't use it, even if it had more buff damage without the charge.

You don't need to aim for the head with the Geth Infiltrator. A cloaked bodyshot is enough to bring down a Phantom on Gold.

It should also be noted that the Claymore doesn't even require you to cloak in order to one-shot a Phantom if you're aiming for the head, especially not with Hunter Vision.

Also, the GPS doesn't kill Brutes better, either. Hunter Vision/Cloak/Proxi mine/Claymore X is a Brute one-shotted, same for Ravagers.

There are plenty of reasons why someone might consider the Claymore a better weapon than the GPS on the GI. With the highest damage single shot in the game, the ability to benefit from headshot damage and the Hunter Vision damage/accuracy buff, the Claymore is an all range weapon with no projectile travel time or charging required, and it can one-shot all but Primes, Atlas and Banshees.

Lastly, the Claymore may need to reload after each shot, but with the reload interrupt, it can fire 2~3 shots in the time it takes the GPS to empty its clip - especially if you include the charge time for the initial shot, which as I mentioned before, the Claymore doesn't require - roundly outdamaging it against any target before you even take potential headshot damage into account.

KainD wrote...

Cayse wrote...

Heads are structural weaknesses. Plasma shotguns do not use them.

Yes, but it doesn't matter with the DPS GPS puts out. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

Once again, with reload canceling, the Claymore beats the GPS in DPS before headshot damage is even taken into account. The gap widens even further when you account for the GPS' charge time.

Modifié par Arkley, 20 avril 2012 - 07:25 .

[JXS nWp]

Axialbloom wrote...

So is the increased accuracy mod worth it? Or is it best go damage and AP?

If you are going to use the claymore, then the accuracy mod is not worth it. it will never be accurate enough to use at anything other then point blank to close range.

If it fired slug like munitions then obviously accuracy is important. The only shotguns that come close to this are the geth plasma or the graal spike thrower because both have high accuracy

best to go damage, armor pen, bayonette or extra ammo mods
if you are using a krogan, the bayonette is a must

[Arkley]

JXS nWp wrote...

Axialbloom wrote...

So is the increased accuracy mod worth it? Or is it best go damage and AP?

If you are going to use the claymore, then the accuracy mod is not worth it. it will never be accurate enough to use at anything other then point blank to close range.

If it fired slug like munitions then obviously accuracy is important. The only shotguns that come close to this are the geth plasma or the graal spike thrower because both have high accuracy

best to go damage, armor pen, bayonette or extra ammo mods
if you are using a krogan, the bayonette is a must

You are enormously incorrect - the accuracy mods for shotguns do not work the way you think they do. They tighten the spread of the pellets by the listed percentage, making them much more viable at range. The Claymore is an incredibly potent weapon even at mid ranges simply due to its sheer power - it fires 8 pellets, and you only need a few of them to land to one-shot most enemies when you're cloaked. And god help them if one of those pellets hits their head. Long range is a bit of a gamble, but with cloak it's still very, very possible to one-shot basic enemies.

I don't know if you think shotguns have a damage penalty over distance like they did in ME2, but in ME3 weapons do the same damage at all ranges, as long as they connect.

Modifié par Arkley, 20 avril 2012 - 07:36 .

[ryoldschool]

Arkley wrote...


Once again, with reload canceling, the Claymore

Wait, the reload trick works in ME3?   I thought they were going to take it out?

[Arkley]

ryoldschool wrote...

Arkley wrote...


Once again, with reload canceling, the Claymore

Wait, the reload trick works in ME3?   I thought they were going to take it out?

It actually works even better than before. All you need to do is tap a power button and it'll be interrupted whether the power is available or on cooldown, so there's no need to wait for your melee animation to end any more. You can also do it by briefly breaking into a sprint, taking/leaving cover, or hitting the medi-gel button.

[suprarj]

Arkley wrote...

JXS nWp wrote...

Axialbloom wrote...

So is the increased accuracy mod worth it? Or is it best go damage and AP?

If you are going to use the claymore, then the accuracy mod is not worth it. it will never be accurate enough to use at anything other then point blank to close range.

If it fired slug like munitions then obviously accuracy is important. The only shotguns that come close to this are the geth plasma or the graal spike thrower because both have high accuracy

best to go damage, armor pen, bayonette or extra ammo mods
if you are using a krogan, the bayonette is a must

You are enormously incorrect - the accuracy mods for shotguns do not work the way you think they do. They tighten the spread of the pellets by the listed percentage, making them much more viable at range. The Claymore is an incredibly potent weapon even at mid ranges simply due to its sheer power - it fires 8 pellets, and you only need a few of them to land to one-shot most enemies when you're cloaked. And god help them if one of those pellets hits their head. Long range is a bit of a gamble, but with cloak it's still very, very possible to one-shot basic enemies in bronze and silver.

FTFY

[Arkley]

suprarj wrote...

Arkley wrote...

JXS nWp wrote...

Axialbloom wrote...

So is the increased accuracy mod worth it? Or is it best go damage and AP?

If you are going to use the claymore, then the accuracy mod is not worth it. it will never be accurate enough to use at anything other then point blank to close range.

If it fired slug like munitions then obviously accuracy is important. The only shotguns that come close to this are the geth plasma or the graal spike thrower because both have high accuracy

best to go damage, armor pen, bayonette or extra ammo mods
if you are using a krogan, the bayonette is a must

You are enormously incorrect - the accuracy mods for shotguns do not work the way you think they do. They tighten the spread of the pellets by the listed percentage, making them much more viable at range. The Claymore is an incredibly potent weapon even at mid ranges simply due to its sheer power - it fires 8 pellets, and you only need a few of them to land to one-shot most enemies when you're cloaked. And god help them if one of those pellets hits their head. Long range is a bit of a gamble, but with cloak it's still very, very possible to one-shot basic enemies in bronze and silver.

FTFY

No, it's perfectly possible to do it on Gold. Like I said, it's a gamble, but you only need a few of those pellets to connect and/or one to hit the head. You're not gonna be one-shotting troopers at sniping distance every time you pull the trigger, but it happens much more easily than you'd think.

[KainD]

Arkley wrote...

You don't need to aim for the head with the Geth Infiltrator. A cloaked bodyshot is enough to bring down a Phantom on Gold.

 

Then both are equal, and GPS just has more shots in clip. 

Arkley wrote...

Also, the GPS doesn't kill Brutes better, either. Hunter Vision/Cloak/Proxi mine/Claymore X is a Brute one-shotted, same for Ravagers.

 

Then they are equal here aswell again, it takes GPS a charged shot and 2 quick shots to kill a brute.

Arkley wrote... 
There are plenty of reasons why someone might consider the Claymore a better weapon than the GPS on the GI. With the highest damage single shot in the game, the ability to benefit from headshot damage and the Hunter Vision damage/accuracy buff, the Claymore is an all range weapon with no projectile travel time or charging required, and it can one-shot all but Primes, Atlas and Banshees.

  

It takes GPS 1 charged cloaked shot for everything except above and a couple more for Brutes/Ravagers. 

Arkley wrote...  
Lastly, the Claymore may need to reload after each shot, but with the reload interrupt, it can fire 2~3 shots in the time it takes the GPS to empty its clip - especially if you include the charge time for the initial shot, which as I mentioned before, the Claymore doesn't require - roundly outdamaging it against any target before you even take potential headshot damage into account.

 

Nooo, that is ridicilously inaccurate. GPS has a clip of 5, charged shot takes 2, the next shot that follows the charged shot has zero delay and the next 2 shots equals to a normal shots but GPS fires fast and has + 15% faster shooting from hunter mode, that doesn't benefit claymore since you have to reaload it. The charging time is only as much as you want it to be, but charging is not required to deal effective damage, it is a bonus and someting that allows 3 shots to be fired from cloak.

Modifié par KainD, 20 avril 2012 - 08:22 .

[Arkley]

KainD wrote...

Arkley wrote...

You don't need to aim for the head with the Geth Infiltrator. A cloaked bodyshot is enough to bring down a Phantom on Gold.

 

Then both are equal, and GPS just has more shots in clip. 

Arkley wrote...

Also, the GPS doesn't kill Brutes better, either. Hunter Vision/Cloak/Proxi mine/Claymore X is a Brute one-shotted, same for Ravagers.

 

Then they are equal here aswell again, it takes GPS a charged shot and 2 quick shots to kill a brute.

Arkley wrote... 
There are plenty of reasons why someone might consider the Claymore a better weapon than the GPS on the GI. With the highest damage single shot in the game, the ability to benefit from headshot damage and the Hunter Vision damage/accuracy buff, the Claymore is an all range weapon with no projectile travel time or charging required, and it can one-shot all but Primes, Atlas and Banshees.

  

It takes GPS 1 charged cloaked shot for everything except above and a couple more for Brutes/Ravagers. 

Arkley wrote...  
Lastly, the Claymore may need to reload after each shot, but with the reload interrupt, it can fire 2~3 shots in the time it takes the GPS to empty its clip - especially if you include the charge time for the initial shot, which as I mentioned before, the Claymore doesn't require - roundly outdamaging it against any target before you even take potential headshot damage into account.

 

Nooo, that is ridicilously inaccurate. GPS has a clip of 5, charged shot takes 2, the next shot that follows the charged shot has zero delay and the next 2 shots equals to a normal shots but GPS fires fast and has + 15% faster shooting from hunter mode, that doesn't benefit claymore since you have to reaload it. The charging time is only as much as you want it to be, but charging is not required to deal effective damage, it is a bonus and someting that allows 3 shots to be fired from cloak.

They are most certainly not equal in any of those accounts. I don't know why you refuse to count the delay in charging the the GPS, but the fact remains that the GPS needs to be charged. You can't just spot an enemy and instantly one-shot it like you can with the Claymore, and charging takes more time than interrupt reloading. I'm aware that you can run around with it charged, but you can't immediately follow up one charged shot with another in the same time frame as the Claymore can reload and fire again, and the gap widens when the GPS itself has to reload.

And again - Claymore deals more damage than the GPS charged shot without even without taking
headshot damage into account. Further widening the damage gap is that the Claymore, when reload-cancelled, can fire two shots under cloak's damage bonus. The GPS certainly can't fire two charged shots under the bonus, and one charged shot/two regular shots are quite a distance from two Claymore shots.

Also, as for the pure DPS, the Claymore does win, soundly, by a considerable margin. In addition to keeping in mind the things written above - about firing two Claymore shots under cloak, the charge time for the GPS, etc - the pure hard stats back it up, too. You point out that the charge time needn't be counted for every shot , since you're not going to charge every shot. So let's look at the GPS' actual fire rate and DPS.

The GPS fires at 60 RPM or once per second. That goes up to 69 RPM with the 15% RoF bonus, so 1.15 shots per second. That's 4.3 seconds to empty its magazine.

The reload interrupt reduces reload time to 1.5 seconds (the minimum possible reload time for any weapon) from time of firing to ready to fire. In the time it takes the GPS to empty its mag from full - with the RoF bonus - the Claymore can fire 2.8 times. That said, the GPS must immediately begin to reload after emptying its mag (1.5 secs, assuming an interrupt as with the Claymore), while the Claymore will be firing again - so for that fact and the sake of simplicity, let's say the Claymore fires 3 shots while the GPS fires 5.

Now I know you're a good player and frequently involved in these discussions. I know you know how much damage the GPS deals per uncharged shot. I'm sure you know how much the Claymore does too. Three Claymore shots beat five GPS shots soundly even without headshot damage. The thing is, the gap doesn't get any more narrow with a charged shot either.

Pick any given time frame. Use as many charged shots or uncharged shots as you like. Don't forget to factor in the reload times for the GPS as well as the Claymore. If you want, you can factor in cloak damage for both weapons in those time frames too. It doesn't matter. The Claymore beats the GPS in terms of DPS. The GPS cannot beat it for pure damage. It's not like it doesn't have plenty of other things going for it, though. It has plenty of other benefits and drawbacks, damage isn't the only thing about the comparison.

Modifié par Arkley, 20 avril 2012 - 09:10 .