150 réponses à ce sujet

[Imryll]

Maria Caliban wrote...
And BioWare should do whatever they want to do.

That's fine so long as their goal is to make the game they want to make--as opposed to a game I will buy. In my opinion they would benefit from thinking a little less about their "artistic integrity" and a little more about how a variety of fans will experience their games. I don't mean to suggest that this is an either/or sort of dichotomy, only that balance is needed. I'm pretty sure that Todd Howard's constantly asking "will this be fun for the player" and Skyrim sales are connected. It's easy to fall in love with an idea and as a result to be unwilling to question its impact and whether it's something that players likely to choose to experience it will enjoy.

[Maria Caliban]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

You have said yourself, Maria, that classic Bioware RPGs aren't really your normal cup of tea. But you still play them because they are exceptionally good games.

WTH? I've never said anything like this.

cJohnOne wrote...

Since DragonAge is the only games that I like at the momment. I would definitely Pre-order probably ship by ups too.

Amazon.com's 99¢ release day shipping is the best.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 20 avril 2012 - 09:29 .

[Who is that Masked Man]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

People are off-loading it at an alarming rate, so much so that the ME team is saying in their tweets 'please don't sell your copies of ME3 a just wait to see what we have coming out on DLC!'

Wait... really?

Really, really. 


http://videogamewrit...customers-41956

I am unable to find the Twitter posts, as I don't have a Twitter account, but I have read the Tweets from links in the ME3 forum posts. 

The story about Amazon giving out refunds for Mass Effect 3 has been mentioned frequently by the "retake mass effect" folks, and quoted uncritically in many video game blog posts.

What these stories usually fail to mention is that Amazon offers full or partial refunds for EVERYTHING if you return it within 30 days. Because THAT IS THEIR RETURN POLICY.

http://www.amazon.co...8&nodeId=468532

So, no, Amazon did not make a "special" exception to their return policy when it came to Mass Effect 3.

And in fact the whole "the game's ending is so bad that Amazon will give you a refund for it" claim is a canard.

[Blastback]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

You have said yourself, Maria, that classic Bioware RPGs aren't really your normal cup of tea. But you still play them because they are exceptionally good games.

WTH? I've never said anything like this.

You've said you didn't care that much for the Baldur's Gate series.. or if that's not what you meant, you've given that impression.

[In Exile]

bEVEsthda wrote...
1: DA2 sold in 2 mil, due to expectations from retailers' experience of DA:O. I believe it's now clear that DA2 failed to sell through 2 mil. Let's say close to 2 mil, doesn't matter so much.
Now, - did DA2 sell all those games? - No! DA:O sold the vast majority of those close to 2 mil copies of DA2.

So these sales represent a return of the investment in developing DA:O, not DA2!

This is the same logic flop that you're accusing the poster you're debating with, though.

DA2 had quite a lot of internet furor building up pre-release. No warden. No Morrigain. PC VO. No armour customiation. More hack & slash combat. "Hot Rod Samurai" art style.

All of these things, which you've identified as the "real" issues with DA2 before (not the obvious blunders like the recycled maps) were well known before DA2's release, and lots of people swore they wouldn't pre-order becuase of them. So what makes you think the majority of the pre-orders for DA2 (which were less than 1/4 of the total DA:O sales at the time) were due to the "true belivers" and not people who didn't for whatever reason like DA:O as it was?

Not to mention that we can look at how DA:A sold, i.e. not even close to DA:O, and just say that DA:O itself was not so well-liked as to ever be able to sustain 4+ million sales for a sequel.

And then we have all the unforeseen ways in which DA2 actually sucked - nonsensical Act 3 plot, no choices, terrible stale city, recycled maps - which themelves could be responsible for the flop.

And lastly,  we have a vocal internet group that hates a particular part of DA2 (i.e. how it was not DA:O).

So how are we getting to the idea that the majority of DA:O fans were responsible for DA2's success? Apparently wishful thinking and results-oriented reasoning on your part.

So, basically, poster you were responding to? Making up reasons for how DA2 might have been some kind of succes. You? Making up reasons for why DA:O might be responsible for any of that success.

[In Exile]

Blastback wrote...
You've said you didn't care that much for the Baldur's Gate series.. or if that's not what you meant, you've given that impression.

This may cause existential panic, but I feel obligated to inform you that between BG2 and DA:O, Bioware released many different types of critically acclaimed games that are by now "classics" that one could like while thinking the BG series was nothing special.

[Dakota Strider]

However, it cannot be denied that Bioware/EA rushed to announce before PAX East, that they would be giving away two different DLC's for ME3, for free. Maybe that is common practice for them, but I cannot recall the last time that has happened. Maybe that DLC was always planned to be given away for free. But, it is probably more likely they are in damage control mode. Let's hope that they look long-term for how to fix things, and not just try to play spin doctor until the furor over the recent problems die down.

Modifié par Dakota Strider, 20 avril 2012 - 09:47 .

[Blastback]

In Exile wrote...

Blastback wrote...
You've said you didn't care that much for the Baldur's Gate series.. or if that's not what you meant, you've given that impression.

This may cause existential panic, but I feel obligated to inform you that between BG2 and DA:O, Bioware released many different types of critically acclaimed games that are by now "classics" that one could like while thinking the BG series was nothing special.

I was just trying to clarify how some of Maria's statements could have been interpreted.  I am well aware that KotOR and Jade Empire are awesome, and I loved Neverwinter Nights to.

So I was attempting to facilitate communication, and the termination of hostiles...er hostilities.

Modifié par Blastback, 20 avril 2012 - 09:52 .

[In Exile]

Blastback wrote...
I was just trying to clarify how some of Maria's statements could have been interpreted.  I am well aware that KotOR and Jade Empire are awesome, and I loved Neverwinter Nights to.

So I was attempting to facilitate communication, and the termination of hostiles...er hostilities.

Ah, my mistake. I say, BG, and my mind went toward the abyss that is BG2 is the best game of all time arguments.

It's just that I think that in the context of DA:O, KoTOR is actually the better comparison. Aside from the top-down camera + point  & click, DA:O and KoTOR are almost identical games.

[Blastback]

In Exile wrote...

Blastback wrote...
I was just trying to clarify how some of Maria's statements could have been interpreted.  I am well aware that KotOR and Jade Empire are awesome, and I loved Neverwinter Nights to.

So I was attempting to facilitate communication, and the termination of hostiles...er hostilities.

Ah, my mistake. I say, BG, and my mind went toward the abyss that is BG2 is the best game of all time arguments.

It's just that I think that in the context of DA:O, KoTOR is actually the better comparison. Aside from the top-down camera + point  & click, DA:O and KoTOR are almost identical games.

Well to be fair, I am in the Baldur's Gate 2 was the greatest game of all time camp, but hey, that's my opinion.  Sholuldn't have any bearing on what anyone else thinks. 

KotOR might be the closer game to Origins...  

[bEVEsthda]

In Exile wrote...
This is the same logic flop that you're accusing the poster you're debating with, though.

DA2 had quite a lot of internet furor building up pre-release. No warden. No Morrigain. PC VO. No armour customiation. More hack & slash combat. "Hot Rod Samurai" art style.

All of these things, which you've identified as the "real" issues with DA2 before (not the obvious blunders like the recycled maps) were well known before DA2's release, and lots of people swore they wouldn't pre-order becuase of them. So what makes you think the majority of the pre-orders for DA2 (which were less than 1/4 of the total DA:O sales at the time) were due to the "true belivers" and not people who didn't for whatever reason like DA:O as it was?

Not to mention that we can look at how DA:A sold, i.e. not even close to DA:O, and just say that DA:O itself was not so well-liked as to ever be able to sustain 4+ million sales for a sequel.

And then we have all the unforeseen ways in which DA2 actually sucked - nonsensical Act 3 plot, no choices, terrible stale city, recycled maps - which themelves could be responsible for the flop.

And lastly,  we have a vocal internet group that hates a particular part of DA2 (i.e. how it was not DA:O).

So how are we getting to the idea that the majority of DA:O fans were responsible for DA2's success? Apparently wishful thinking and results-oriented reasoning on your part.

So, basically, poster you were responding to? Making up reasons for how DA2 might have been some kind of succes. You? Making up reasons for why DA:O might be responsible for any of that success.

That you claim to believe these things, has long been wellknown to me. I've seen most of your posts and arguments on the matter.

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

It's just that I think that in the context of DA:O, KoTOR is actually the better comparison. Aside from the top-down camera + point  & click, DA:O and KoTOR are almost identical games.

The combat is fundamentally different, though.

In DAO, the player can control all of the party members simultaneously.

In KotOR (and this is top of my mind right nw because I'm playing NWN2, which does the same thing) only one character can be controlled at a time, with the other characters abandoning any previously given instructions as soon as a different character is selected.

KotOR plays more like Mass Effect or NWN - single character games - than it does like BG or DAO.

[Maria Caliban]

Blastback wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

You have said yourself, Maria, that classic Bioware RPGs aren't really your normal cup of tea. But you still play them because they are exceptionally good games.

WTH? I've never said anything like this.

You've said you didn't care that much for the Baldur's Gate series.. or if that's not what you meant, you've given that impression.

I've never finished BG I and managed to finish BG 2 once, over a decade ago. I haven't played KotOR or Jade Empire since I first got them. I finished DA:O once and DA II once.

BioWare's games are my cup of tea but I don't 'still play them.' I play them once and move on.

What he said it about the exact opposite of what's accurate, other than that I consider them excellent games.

[the_one_54321]

bEVEsthda wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
If you'll take note, there are actually posters that have no "II" or "3" beneath their forum avatar. It maybe the minority, but there are gamers that see something they know they won't really enjoy and actually don't buy it.

Well, that doesn't have to mean much. I have only a DA2 symbol. However, I have all Bioware games since BG1, plus expansions, except Jade Empire and ME3. What is more, I have multiple copies. I have so many Baldur's Gate games that I actually don't know how many.

Granted, but I actually did not buy either of the new games. And I know a number of others that did not. "I'm voting with my wallet" is not always an idle threat. Progressive DAII sales also seems to support this. Not that it was a failure in sales, but it didn't continue to sell the way that DA:O did.

[Blastback]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Blastback wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

You have said yourself, Maria, that classic Bioware RPGs aren't really your normal cup of tea. But you still play them because they are exceptionally good games.

WTH? I've never said anything like this.

You've said you didn't care that much for the Baldur's Gate series.. or if that's not what you meant, you've given that impression.

I've never finished BG I and managed to finish BG 2 once, over a decade ago. I haven't played KotOR or Jade Empire since I first got them. I finished DA:O once and DA II once.

BioWare's games are my cup of tea but I don't 'still play them.' I play them once and move on.

What he said it about the exact opposite of what's accurate, other than that I consider them excellent games.

You.. you don't replay? Error does not compute. Error does not compute.

[Maria Caliban]

Blastback wrote...

I was just trying to clarify how some of Maria's statements could have been interpreted.  I am well aware that KotOR and Jade Empire are awesome, and I loved Neverwinter Nights to.

So I was attempting to facilitate communication, and the termination of hostiles...er hostilities.

That's sweet of you.

[Brockololly]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

First of all, this would concern me much more if we hadn't just seen the rise of fan-funded projects.

True. And it will be interesting to see how some of these projects end up doing once they're released too. Just the success of the Kickstarters for games like Wasteland 2 or the Banner Saga or Shadowrun show that there is still a demand for those kind of games.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Second, when BioWare was acquired by EA, EA's executive made it clear that they had no plans to interfere with the way BioWare was run. However, that executive executes at the will of the Board of Directors, and a falling share price is exactly the sort of thing that might cause a change in that executive. As such, any promises made by the previous executive would be irrelevant. This was always the risk of the EA acquisition. Regardless of EA's stated benevolence, they could not credibly guarantee that benevolence going forward.

Considering how closely tied BioWare seems tied to Riccitiello, if he ever leaves EA or gets sacked  then all bets would be off in how much BioWare retains any sense of autonomy. And who knows with how EA's stock has been tanking hard over the past year.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
I do think BioWare is now chasing a non-existent market with their unpolished hybrid adventure games (rather than the polished tactical roleplaying games they used to make), with the market they've abandoned now going unserved (with the exception of independent titles from Paradox and Spiderweb, or the aforementioned fan-funded projects). And BioWare's repeated claims that the market has changed ring quite hollow in the face of Skyrim's sales figures. Bethesda has been making fundamentally the same game for 18 years; the market can't have changed much.

I think with something like Skyrim, the Elder Scrolls games have changed over the years but Bethesda has the core of what makes an Elder Scrolls game an Elder Scrolls game. With something like Dragon Age, I don't know what exactly BioWare thinks makes for a Dragon Age game. I'd guess the party based approach, but thats a more nebulous thing than a big sandbox world like the Elder Scrolls games.

I agree that BioWare has their potential fanbase spread too thin at this point though. It seems they had an established fanbase at one point but in the attempt to expand, they've ended up alienating a good amount of them. Instead of trying to bring more people into the fold with an established kind of game, they've gradually changed the types of games they've made to try and get larger sales for some mythical audience.

Modifié par Brockololly, 20 avril 2012 - 10:38 .

[Blastback]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Blastback wrote...

I was just trying to clarify how some of Maria's statements could have been interpreted.  I am well aware that KotOR and Jade Empire are awesome, and I loved Neverwinter Nights to.

So I was attempting to facilitate communication, and the termination of hostiles...er hostilities.

That's sweet of you.

I'm disapointed no one seems to have caught the KotOR 2 refrence...

[TheBlackBaron]

I would hardly use Skyrim's sales figures as evidence that the market hasn't changed. They're even more actionized in combat and shallower in story and roleplaying depth than DA2 or ME.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I've never finished BG I and managed to finish BG 2 once, over a decade ago. I haven't played KotOR or Jade Empire since I first got them. I finished DA:O once and DA II once.

BioWare's games are my cup of tea but I don't 'still play them.' I play them once and move on.

If a game is worth finishing, then it's worth starting and playing halfway through 12 times.

At least, that's how I do it.

[Yrkoon]

Blastback wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I've never finished BG I and managed to finish BG 2 once, over a decade ago. I haven't played KotOR or Jade Empire since I first got them. I finished DA:O once and DA II once.

BioWare's games are my cup of tea but I don't 'still play them.' I play them once and move on.

What he said it about the exact opposite of what's accurate, other than that I consider them excellent games.

You.. you don't replay? Error does not compute. Error does not compute.

The vast majority of gamers are like that.  They don't replay games, and most don't even do a full  single playthrough.

I just don't get that at all.  The whole notion is completely alien to me.  To me, a good game is something that becomes a part of my entertainment life.  I  can play a truly good game for years.

In fact, generally speaking, I tend to enjoy  the second playthough far more than the first

[Dakota Strider]

When I buy a game, I want to be able to replay it. Hopefully numerous times. But, if I cannot have different choices to make, with different outcomes throughout the game, that makes it very difficult to do. BG, NwN and DAO were BW games that I was able to play at least 6-10 times each, because of all the various ways you could play it. DA2 was harder for me to replay. Played as Hawke warrior first time, second time played rogue...alternated between Isabella and Merrill as LI. Still, way too much was the same between the two play throughs, though I tried to make different types of choices and comments. Waited a while before playing for a third time, bought the DLC's, and have tried to play through as a mage Hawke. I am stalled out early in Act 2....its no fun to play when you know the conversations and combats before hand.

[Sabriana]

Yes indeed, Yrkoon. I enjoy replays a lot. I still replay Fallout 2 even to this day. And I enjoy it very much. Heck, I still get p.o'd at FO1's ending.

I do enjoy NWN user modules, even now, and I could replay HotU endlessly.

I could go on and on about the old games, but heck yeah, just try to take them away from me, just go ahead and try. Can you believe that I have yet to uninstall BG2? Or NWN because of the user made mods? Or Morrowind? Or VtM Bloodlines? Love them to pieces.

[Sylvanpyxie]

They don't replay games

Cannot imagine this.

Especially these days, where every other game released is a stagnant, horrific, mess on the floor that i wouldn't let my dog eat.

I spend more time on Dungeon Keeper and Jade Empire than i've ever spent on a "modern" RPG.

[Dejajeva]

I'm going to buy it all. Twice. No, seriously, I'll pre-order console and then later buy it on PC for the fun mods. I figure I'm buying it once for myself and once for the "bitter hardcore rpger who hates DA2 and Bioware and thinks console gamers suck!" guy.