131 réponses à ce sujet

[stysiaq]

frankly, I don't think about the connection between EMS and the endings. The system breaks the effort-reward scheme because you don't get to see fleets you gathered destroying some Reapers. And that was reward I hoped for.

you aquired Geth fleet, and have high EMS = you see Geth destroyers destroy Sovereigns twin.
you aquired Geth and the Quarians = you see Geth saving Quarian lifeship from a Reaper attack/oculus swarms.

god its so awfully easy.

[Allan Schumacher]

Would it be possible to get a comment from you regarding the amount of EMS available in only Single Player without any influence from Multiplayer or iOS Apps?

I have had a few people ask me about this and I'm going to have to deflect it, sorry.

I had zero input to the creation of ME3 so I'm not comfortable speaking on behalf of the team that did produce it since I don't know any details. If the thread links to an issue and you feel it's valid, I'll say that there's a good chance it HAS been seen, and if you feel strongly enough about it continue to discuss it in a generally polite manner and maybe try to bring it to the attention of Mike Gamble or someone similar.

[King_Gabs]

well just give the bioware guys a break... this is what we do. DON'T buy BIOWARE/EA GAMES. play diablo 3 and guildwars2 and DONE! you wont remember mass effect.

[SimonTheFrog]

The EMS and the crucible would make a lot more sense if:

- Hacket or anybody ingame and therefore the player would know what it does and how adding "assets" is improving its effectiveness.

- As has been mentioned before, the game would tell the player more clearly that the EMS is about the crucible first and only very partially about the direct combat against reapers.

- The endings would actually make sense and be rewarding in any way.

The way it is now, I just add stuff to the crucible because i like to be thorough and see all the content. Which ending it triggers i couldn't care less, I ignore them in order to keep my sanity.

Modifié par SimonTheFrog, 21 avril 2012 - 08:00 .

[miracleofsound]

Look, I think it was a dick move for them to put less than 8000 WA in the singleplayer game too, but you're talking about a 5 second scene that anyone can watch on Youtube for free. It's hardly SecuROM, you know?

It's the principle.

Making players play multiplayer to unlock a single player ending sets a FAR more dangerous precedent for gaming than changing a bad ending.

[miracleofsound]

King_Gabs wrote...

well just give the bioware guys a break... this is what we do. DON'T buy BIOWARE/EA GAMES. play diablo 3 and guildwars2 and DONE! you wont remember mass effect.

'Don't buy any more Bioware games' is a stupid thing to say.

Everyone is here because they love Bioware, none of us wants to see them fail. We want them to succeed and keep making amazing stories.

[Wulfram]

When you get 900 points for the Krogan, EMS isn't about the Crucible.

[Swisspease]

miracleofsound wrote...

Look, I think it was a dick move for them to put less than 8000 WA in the singleplayer game too, but you're talking about a 5 second scene that anyone can watch on Youtube for free. It's hardly SecuROM, you know?

It's the principle.

Making players play multiplayer to unlock a single player ending sets a FAR more dangerous precedent for gaming than changing a bad ending.

That is one of the things I'm upset about. I do not play multi player, nor do I have an Apple product to download the app, so I cannot get all of the endings playing SP. That is bull****. I tend to play as a completionist trying to squeeze everything I can out of a game and I can't do that playing SP. If this practice continues I will not be buying games that require MP play, no matter if the company that made the game is Bioware or another company. This is bad business practice to force people into something that they don't want to do.

[OchreJelly]

Ideally there would have been two types: Crucible Tech that affects the ending choices you get, and Military Strength that affects the fleet and ground scenes for Earth... and to a lesser extent damage potential to the Crucible.

There should have been far fewer individual war assets, and more strategic side-missions, small handful of fetch quests, and some other misc. plot choices involving collecting the assets with direct moral and gameplay consequences on the endgame.

For example, if you were gaming for Control in line with TIM's wishes (retconning his indoctrination), you could choose to collect and implement more reaper tech into the Crucible, extrapolate the Horizon data, choose to salvage the reaper heart/brain from his base on top of handing him the Collector Base in 2. You'd go on to win, but for the sake of making humanity the ruthless leaders of the Galaxy or somethin like that.

Or perhaps with the same assets, you instead choose to implement them as ways to target Reapers directly with the Destroy option, and the more fine-tuned you managed to get it, the less non-Reaper and Reaper-based tech you destroyed to the ultimate level of just eradicating Reapers alone.

There'd probably have to be a third option somewhere, but Synthesis is just silly so I won't even go into it. Probably some sacrificial path or something like that.

Of course you would gain points towards all categories, but the better you did in one, the better the outcome. A humanist Renegade aiming for Control assets would fail at Destroy, but might still manage to beat the Reapers anyways, but with dramatically different effects.

Apply the same ideas for non-fleet War Assets, with specific categories showing up in the battle for Earth, like Krogan/Salarians or Geth plus Quarians, biotic students, etc. Fleet assets on the other hand contribute directly to how the Crucible fairs, with visuals and dialog about it.

Bake for 6 months to 2 years, release as ICanDream DLC.

Now I'm depressed...

Modifié par OchreJelly, 21 avril 2012 - 10:44 .

[Sir Fluffykins]

I understood early on that your choices and rewards were all getting turned into War Assets which -from the bar, was a number crunch. Going just from that it was safe to assume the amount of War Assets would determine your ending, with major choices and secondary choices playing out in an Epilogue <--- I know I was wrong, that's what I thought at the time.

Fast forward, to near the end, 7680 War assets, at 50% readiness. Here's what I thought would happen. Some choice would be presented, whatever that choice was it may have needed the Relays to explode (Due to previous plot lines about Relays being a massive Reaper trap) -then we'd see the result play out with War Assets determining how well it goes.

By reading that you'd think I'd be ready for what the ending was like, but I wasn't. I didn't feel like I saw the result of anything, to me, the War Assets had been thrown out a window and then, no epilogue, leaving me with a "what happened" ending with a "what happened" aftermath.

So after -basically- 3 games of choices being turned into numbers to determine the outcome of an entire Galaxy, all of it, at least at face value, didn't mean anything and if you do go into it, it changed extremely little visually and your RESULT/REWARD is "Guess what happened".

Someone who got 10000 EMS, by playing all games and Multiplayer, buying all the DLC should have got a hugely different ending, where Shepard beats Harbinger in a winner-takes-all boxing match or something - to someone who came in at ME3 and rushed through -who should have failed and seen the Reapers win.

Also Epilogue! No one cares whether their EMS let 2 random Grunts on Earth survive or not, we care about our crew and choices and whether we got to sit on an island with Garrus or drink with Jacob at a wrecked bar in Rio and build a home with Tali with the Geth allowing her to take her helmet off.

Hope that helps explaining why I felt the EMS system failed.

Modifié par Sir Fluffykins, 21 avril 2012 - 11:28 .

[ShadowNinja1129]

I would disagree with you OP, because gathering EMS was just as much about adding in numbers that affected the Crucible construction as it was adding in numbers of fleets and soldiers, and it makes sense that the more military strength and resources you had to build and defend the Crucible, the more options would be available to you (since the Crucible is at peak capacity).

As I said, I would disagree with you, but I can't because of that stupid 5000+ EMS "Shepard Lives" Destroy ending. If we really are supposed to take all of this at face value, then WHY is destroy painted as the "best" ending with the inclusion of this easter egg? If destroy is supposed to be the rash, selfish option, then why does Shepard have to be effectively selfless (regardless of paragon/renegade alignment) by mopping up the galaxy's problems and doing their work for them before carting everyone off to the big Reaper showdown to get the "I survived! Yay me!" ending? To be selfish and let Shepard live, we must do everything right and be totally selfless characters?

Brain . . . hurt . . .

Modifié par ShadowNinja1129, 21 avril 2012 - 11:41 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Jog0907 wrote...

In regards to the first point, (reapers destroying the crucible while shep talks with the catalyst) you do know that by the time that happens you've already met the catalyst (the master of the reapers) and thus it makes no sense for that to happen, since the catalyst kinda says that you deserve to be there to shape the galaxy.
Why would reapers destroy the crucible if their master decided that shep should not be killed yet and allowed to make the decision first?

It makes you wonder how much control the Catalyst actually has, I agree.  Are the Reapers sentient and able to determine self-preservation?

Alternatively, Shepard's lack of choice can be perceived as a choice in and of itself.

'Hey man, I gave you plenty of time to make a decision. You wouldn't have been screwed if you had just made it.'

[Cucobr]

pistolols wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I don't feel that any of the choices are necessarily better than the others, just that they may require a better constructed Crucible in order to happen.

This.  EMS dictates the quality of it's construction and possibilities it can bring via the quality of parts / scientists shepard acquires for it.

Nops.

Crucible is 100% built when it reaches Earth no matter your EMS.

[Dean_the_Young]

Cucobr wrote...

pistolols wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I don't feel that any of the choices are necessarily better than the others, just that they may require a better constructed Crucible in order to happen.

This.  EMS dictates the quality of it's construction and possibilities it can bring via the quality of parts / scientists shepard acquires for it.

Nops.

Crucible is 100% built when it reaches Earth no matter your EMS.

Being complete doesn't mean being optimal: you can have a car, but still add more things to it that would make it a better car.

[Cucobr]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Jog0907 wrote...

In regards to the first point, (reapers destroying the crucible while shep talks with the catalyst) you do know that by the time that happens you've already met the catalyst (the master of the reapers) and thus it makes no sense for that to happen, since the catalyst kinda says that you deserve to be there to shape the galaxy.
Why would reapers destroy the crucible if their master decided that shep should not be killed yet and allowed to make the decision first?

It makes you wonder how much control the Catalyst actually has, I agree.  Are the Reapers sentient and able to determine self-preservation?

another plot hole I think.

If the Catalyst control the Reapers. He just needs to give one order for the Reapers do not attack the Crucible + Citadel.

right?

[Cucobr]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

pistolols wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I don't feel that any of the choices are necessarily better than the others, just that they may require a better constructed Crucible in order to happen.

This.  EMS dictates the quality of it's construction and possibilities it can bring via the quality of parts / scientists shepard acquires for it.

Nops.

Crucible is 100% built when it reaches Earth no matter your EMS.

Being complete doesn't mean being optimal: you can have a car, but still add more things to it that would make it a better car.

You can't support this affirmation. You are speculating to make sense.

Nothing IN GAME tells me this.

The Crucible is done, when is done. 100% operacional coming to Earth for the Final Battle.

[Wulfram]

Cucobr wrote...

You can't support this affirmation. You are speculating to make sense.

Nothing IN GAME tells me this.

The Crucible is done, when is done. 100% operacional coming to Earth for the Final Battle.

Some of the Crucible war assets themselves explain how they improve on the Crucible.

And the fact that the Crucible is described as having been added and improved on by various races throughout history makes it clear that there is in fact no one definitive finished form of the Crucible.

[Cucobr]

Wulfram wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

You can't support this affirmation. You are speculating to make sense.

Nothing IN GAME tells me this.

The Crucible is done, when is done. 100% operacional coming to Earth for the Final Battle.

Some of the Crucible war assets themselves explain how they improve on the Crucible.

And the fact that the Crucible is described as having been added and improved on by various races throughout history makes it clear that there is in fact no one definitive finished form of the Crucible.

Let's assume that I didn't almost nothing of the secondary missions.

BUT

I played much the multiplayer of the game.

[Dean_the_Young]

Cucobr wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

You can't support this affirmation. You are speculating to make sense.

Nothing IN GAME tells me this.

The Crucible is done, when is done. 100% operacional coming to Earth for the Final Battle.

Some of the Crucible war assets themselves explain how they improve on the Crucible.

And the fact that the Crucible is described as having been added and improved on by various races throughout history makes it clear that there is in fact no one definitive finished form of the Crucible.

Let's assume that I didn't almost nothing of the secondary missions.

BUT

I played much the multiplayer of the game.

Then your effective military strength is still the combination of how well you build the Crucible AND how well you can protect it.

[draken-heart]

 Allan, what logical reason can you come up with for the fact that the Quarian-Geth peace thingy appears to favor the Quarians. i mean:

• +2 for blowing up the heretics
• +2 for making sure the Migrant fleet does not exile Tali
• +1 for Saving admiral Zal'Koris Vas Qwib-Qwib

seems to me that BW wants us to see the Quarians as right and the Geth as traitors. (this fits as peace nets both Quarian and Geth assets)

Modifié par draken-heart, 21 avril 2012 - 06:36 .

[Cucobr]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

You can't support this affirmation. You are speculating to make sense.

Nothing IN GAME tells me this.

The Crucible is done, when is done. 100% operacional coming to Earth for the Final Battle.

Some of the Crucible war assets themselves explain how they improve on the Crucible.

And the fact that the Crucible is described as having been added and improved on by various races throughout history makes it clear that there is in fact no one definitive finished form of the Crucible.

Let's assume that I didn't almost nothing of the secondary missions.

BUT

I played much the multiplayer of the game.

Then your effective military strength is still the combination of how well you build the Crucible AND how well you can protect it.

''build and protection''

N7 Team arent scientis.


Protect crucible has absolutely nothing to do with the power that exerts crucible.

So this theory of the crucible being built differently is invalid.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Would it be possible to get a comment from you regarding the amount of EMS available in only Single Player without any influence from Multiplayer or iOS Apps?

I have had a few people ask me about this and I'm going to have to deflect it, sorry.

I had zero input to the creation of ME3 so I'm not comfortable speaking on behalf of the team that did produce it since I don't know any details. If the thread links to an issue and you feel it's valid, I'll say that there's a good chance it HAS been seen, and if you feel strongly enough about it continue to discuss it in a generally polite manner and maybe try to bring it to the attention of Mike Gamble or someone similar.

Allen, of the Dragon Age side of things.... Hi. That's obvious from this comment, and that a few of the other moderators we've seen recently are from the DA side. BTW I think you guys are doing a great job handling this powder keg.

Yeah, this EMS issue has been a sore spot. I personally like the multiplayer. I find it fun and one of the better parts of the game. However I don't think it should be required to get the best result, nor do I particularly like the idea that if you don't play the MP you must have an Apple device. I don't like linking apps to my facebook page either.

What I've found misleading is that when you go to your main menu of the game and you've got say 98% galactic readiness, you get a message like "the galactic forces are winning in all theaters." This to me means they're beating the reapers conventionally. So what do we need this crucible for again?

[Cucobr]

"No species can remain neutral during the Reaper conflict. Allied forces are recruiting anyone, soldier or mercenary, smart, fast, and tough enough to survive galactic war. The most experienced operatives form squads to secure objectives, evacuate civilians, and battle Cerberus or the Reapers deep in enemy territory. Initially led by N7 Alliance marines, these squads have been nicknamed the N7 Special Ops. In light of these teams' exemplary service and remarkable bravery, the Alliance has allowed this unofficial name to spread across the ranks as a sign of respect for their efforts. "

[Xandurpein]

I really wish they had made more of the EMS, and I've seen some great ideas on how it could have been done here in this thread. Still, I understand that no matter how you do it, it's an abstraction in the end. I have to say though that it was the whole iOS/multiplayer thing with Galactic Readiness that killed the immersion for me.

[ScooterPie88]

EMS was supposed to be representative of your chances (similar to how loyalty represented your chances in ME2). The problem was they took it too far and instead of showing the consequences of your individual actions every action was reduced to an arbitrary number.