131 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Cucobr wrote...

''build and protection''

N7 Team arent scientis.

They are protection for assets that enable Hackett's forces.

You know, those strategic cites you fight at and over?

Protect crucible has absolutely nothing to do with the power that exerts crucible.

Of course damage to a system can lead it to not being as capable. A machine exposed to more Reaper forces and damage can quite sensibly be in worse condition come time for activation.

So this theory of the crucible being built differently is invalid.

Care to address how so, when different war assets in game specifically address changes and additions to the Crucible?

[Cucobr]

EMS is awesome because it is essentially what is expected.

Shepard must assemble the galaxy. Simple as that.

But EMS affecting the powers of the Crucible is simply meaningless.


Indoctrination Theory explain... but... you know..Artistic integrity...

[Allan Schumacher]

draken-heart wrote...

 Allan, what logical reason can you come up with for the fact that the Quarian-Geth peace thingy appears to favor the Quarians. i mean:

• +2 for blowing up the heretics
• +2 for making sure the Migrant fleet does not exile Tali
• +1 for Saving admiral Zal'Koris Vas Qwib-Qwib

seems to me that BW wants us to see the Quarians as right and the Geth as traitors. (this fits as peace nets both Quarian and Geth assets)

No, it's not that at all.  In order to get peace between the Quarians and Geth, it's the Quarians you need to convince to stop attacking.  It makes perfect sense that you need to have greater influence over the Quarians since they're the ones being pigheaded during the final fight.

I don't think the Geth are traitors, and in fact I actually chose the Geth initially myself, though I ended up with peace in the end.

[Cucobr]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Of course damage to a system can lead it to not being as capable.

again... and again..

you are especulation things that aren't IN GAME

The crucible NOT TAKES DAMAGE, in any moment of the game.

Modifié par Cucobr, 21 avril 2012 - 07:30 .

[winterbrood]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Based on the differences that can occur with the varying EMS thresholds, it seems that the EMS is more reflective of the ability to engineer and protect the crucible as opposed to directly attack the Reapers.

Note that I didn't fully realize that while playing through the first time either.


I don't feel that any of the choices are necessarily better than the others, just that they may require a better constructed Crucible in order to happen. I picked the Destroy ending even without knowing that Shepard survives, and I don't think that his survival necessarily makes it the best ending either.

If it is the case that the entire EMS system is dedicated solely to building and protecting the Crucible, then why are a considerable number of war assets stated to be entirely ground-based military? One of the most substantial groups of war assets you can get is the Krogan army. Krogan have no scientists to build the Crucible, and no space ships to contribute to defending it. In the system where literally everything revolves around engineering the crucible and defending it in space from reapers, how would Krogan killing Husks on Earth contribute to this at all, let alone in the huge number (around 800 EMS points on my playthrough I think) that they do?

[AllergevKev]

I agree. Luckily, the impact of your EMS is almost definitely going to be in the extended cut in a more understandable manner. God help BW if its not.

[Dean_the_Young]

Cucobr wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Of course damage to a system can lead it to not being as capable.

again... and again..

you are especulation things that aren't IN GAME

The crucible NOT TAKES DAMAGE, in any moment of the game.

Since it can be destroyed if you wait long enough, clearly it not only can but does take damage.

Now, are the results modeled off of a timer rather than a numeric statistic? Of course not, any more than all those other 'time-sensitive issues' that conveniently wait around in plot-stasis until Shepard shows up.

Does that numeric statistic justify a change of result in such ways? Not perfectly, but yes.

[Allan Schumacher]

In the system where literally everything revolves around engineering the crucible and defending it in space from reapers, how would Krogan killing Husks on Earth contribute to this at all, let alone in the huge number (around 800 EMS points on my playthrough I think) that they do?

By freeing up those that can work on it? The Krogan aren't just fighting Husks on Earth. They're also fighting Palaven, and possibly elsewhere too.

At this point though, I've stated my explanation for why it doesn't cause a _logical_ inconsistency for myself. If the EMS is a bone of contention for people, that's fine and I don't think it's without merit.

[hippanda]

I said the gist of this in another thread, but I think the biggest problem I have with the EMS system is that it doesn't provide consequences for your choices in the traditional sense. Whether you go full paragon, full renegade or some mixture of the two, a roughly completionist playthrough is always going to net you somewhere in the ballpark of 7000-7700 total war assets. Even assuming the standard 50% readiness penalty, that's more than enough to get the last (or "best") set of cutscenes for the endgame (short of the breath scene after picking destroy, which requires greater than 50% readiness no matter how you play). Consequently, the only way to see differentiation in the ending scenes isn't to make different choices - it's to actively avoid making choices or collecting assets wherever possible.

[PsyrenY]

What I've found misleading is that when you go to your main menu of the game and you've got say 98% galactic readiness, you get a message like "the galactic forces are winning in all theaters." This to me means they're beating the reapers conventionally. So what do we need this crucible for again?

1) It never says "all theaters," it says "key theaters."

2) Readiness relates to ground battles (protecting supply lines and evacuating civilians) since you can't do any battles in space.

3) "Winning" doesn't necessarily mean what you think it means. Getting a colony evacuated safely before the Reapers arrive is a win. That doesn't mean you're nuking capital ships left and right.

[Bfler]

Optimystic_X wrote...


3) "Winning" doesn't necessarily mean what you think it means. Getting a colony evacuated safely before the Reapers arrive is a win. That doesn't mean you're nuking capital ships left and right.

This is damage control and not victory.

[Federally]

What I'm wondering is how do you get the bad endings? I mean I just completed a playthrough that had several deaths in ME2 and really wasn't a perfect play through. But just because I play MP a bit I actually left Mars with enough Ems to meet that "minimum". The rest of the numbers were pretty pointless.

Ems really wasn't thought out well. It's way easy to get a hell of a lot, it doesn't make sense a new cruiser helps me build a big weapon, and lastly 99% of them are just shown in text even tho this is a visual medium.

[Temper_Graniteskul]

AllergevKev wrote...

I agree. Luckily, the impact of your EMS is almost definitely going to be in the extended cut in a more understandable manner. God help BW if its not.

This right here is why I think BioWare and EA have to fix the EMS-SP game relationship sooner rather than later. With no way for a player in the SP campaign to raise EMS in-game, those of us who don't/can't use MP and/or the iOS app are going to be even more screwed out of a decent ending.

Right at the moment, based on what you actually see happening, the 50% GR mostly only impacts whether you get to see Shep take a breath at the end, and whether buildings get blown up in the Destroy choice. (I'm unsure, but think it may also impact whether some crew members are seen to be killed on the ground in London.) With an extended ending - one that's almost invariably going to be based on your choices and your EMS - anyone without that GR boost is stuck with the crappy 'good' versions of the endings - the ones you get for just having enough EMS to get the job done.

Situation... problematic.

[Federally]

You're incorrect sir. There is no way to see squadmates dead on Earth. That's a deleted scene that was not included in the game.

[Kalundume]

I find EMS system very insufficient: it is a purely quantitative approach to treat very complex plot problems. The players do not care that much about numbers, they care more about the actual results (qualitative) they can see on the screen... and those are not seen that much (partially in the fleet cutscene, partially in the ground troops cutscenes, but nothing matters at all ... in the endings)

and in here EMS caused quite a mess: The green ending requires significant number of EMS, yet it is the most disturbing ending from the moral point of view (full moral relativism mode)

[Federally]

I think the green synthesis ending being the top choice both in its difficulty to achieve and in its presentation says a lot about Mac and Casey's personal morals. It's just a bit odd that in a trilogy that dealt much with trying to create peace and understanding between different groups their grand solution was homogeny. Thank god they're just making video games and not in more influential positions.

[Cucobr]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Of course damage to a system can lead it to not being as capable.

again... and again..

you are especulation things that aren't IN GAME

The crucible NOT TAKES DAMAGE, in any moment of the game.

Since it can be destroyed if you wait long enough, clearly it not only can but does take damage.

Now, are the results modeled off of a timer rather than a numeric statistic? Of course not, any more than all those other 'time-sensitive issues' that conveniently wait around in plot-stasis until Shepard shows up.

Does that numeric statistic justify a change of result in such ways? Not perfectly, but yes.

The crucible is destroyed if you took a long time to choose. But this meaning nothing.


you are saying that the EMS have scientists who are built the crucible. The more scientists rather the Crucible is built, right?

I already proven that this is indifferent.


Now you say that the Crucible can be destroyed.
okay.

and?

The crucible came to Earth 100% build, with the EMS that you gathered.

and other thing,

The choices you have, are already pre-set when you come to Earth.

Nothing will change that.

[Temper_Graniteskul]

Federally wrote...

You're incorrect sir. There is no way to see squadmates dead on Earth. That's a deleted scene that was not included in the game.

Call it 'heavily implied' death; also, crew - not the squad selected for the final push to the Citadel transporter light column. I know I got to see Wrex and his squad (mixed krogan/turian) get targeted by a Reaper beam, though I can't remember if Garrus was part of that or not. No bodies, but they weren't exactly outrunning it. The sense I got from other threads around the EMS effect on the endings was that the scene was not shown if your EMS was 4000+, but I may have been mistaken.

[LordJeyl]

Why does EMS determine if your squad mates get killed by harbinger?

[Federally]

Temper do you mean the scenes with the destroyer guarding the beam? The ones where the mixed species force gets shot at by the main gun on the destroyer? Those scenes do not vary based on Ems, neither does the charge to the light with Harby shooting

[lx_theo]

What moral choice? Most of all the games was quite blak and white.

[OchreJelly]

Federally wrote...

You're incorrect sir. There is no way to see squadmates dead on Earth. That's a deleted scene that was not included in the game.

Not sure if someone else addressed this, but...

Low EMS will show your squadmates dead near the beam at the end, once you wake up. Higher EMS doesn't show them dead on the ground (doesn't show them at all, actually.)

Probably just an oversight due to last minute changes, because they can still show up during the Normandy crash.

[Temper_Graniteskul]

Federally wrote...

Temper do you mean the scenes with the destroyer guarding the beam? The ones where the mixed species force gets shot at by the main gun on the destroyer? Those scenes do not vary based on Ems, neither does the charge to the light with Harby shooting

This is probably the one. Looks like I confused it with discussion over the scene OchreJelly described.

Modifié par Temper_Graniteskul, 21 avril 2012 - 10:21 .

[PsyrenY]

Cucobr wrote...

The crucible came to Earth 100% build, with the EMS that you gathered.

Not quite. Remember what Vendetta said - every cycle adds something of its own to the blueprints. Depending on the assets you pick up, yours does too - for example, Xen and David Archer both add things to the Crucible that aren't in the basic blueprints, as do Adams+Gabby+Ken, Jacob's Cerberus pals, the Rachni etc.

If you lack these assets, the Crucible still gets built, but certain options are closed off because it's less complex/efficient/souped up/whatever.

[Cirreus]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

The crucible came to Earth 100% build, with the EMS that you gathered.

Not quite. Remember what Vendetta said - every cycle adds something of its own to the blueprints. Depending on the assets you pick up, yours does too - for example, Xen and David Archer both add things to the Crucible that aren't in the basic blueprints, as do Adams+Gabby+Ken, Jacob's Cerberus pals, the Rachni etc.

If you lack these assets, the Crucible still gets built, but certain options are closed off because it's less complex/efficient/souped up/whatever.

The problem here is the relationship between EMS meter, it's lack of context to the ending scenes (rewards?) & the perception that is brought up over again, the Crucible's link to it all.

If the Crucible was an "option" to be built, I'd be on board with this idea. It's not. If there was ANY war assest, side mission, fetch quest, anything that effected the ending scenes, I'd agreed to this idea. There isn't a single one. An example would be the Rachni. Say if I saved the Queen in ME1 & in ME3, Shepard would breath in the destory ending. I'd be 100% behind the idea that there is a lore/story/theme link. Again, this isn't the case.

Busting out Gibb's ME3 editor proves that ALL war assest are generic. Diana Allars, boosted 5,000 works no different than doing every fetch quest or ignoring all them with 100% GR and speed running the game in under 10hrs on action mode.

I want to believe the intentions of EMS is an RPG element (especially for the constuction of the Crucible), but it's nothing more than a "you are here" progress bar for the end game cut scene elements only. And as game feature , EMS is still a form of DRM.

Modifié par Cirreus, 22 avril 2012 - 01:47 .