47 réponses à ce sujet

[EnerPrime]

So, a lot of people seem to be hating on Kaidan and Ashley because they don't automaticly trust Shepard again in ME2. But it seems to me that a lot of people have trouble seeing things from their point of view.

Look at it like this:
Let's say that your Shepard was never killed by Collectors then revived by Cerberus and is going along his or her business, when all of a sudden you run into a bunch of Cerberus forces. And leading them is your Shepard's Virmire casualty, AKA the teammate you thought you saw get turned into nuclear ashes. So, Shepard demands to know why Kaiden/Ashley never got in touch with you if they survived, and why the hell are they working with Cerberus all of a sudden. In response, they say something about being in a coma, and say they are working with Cerberus now because it's the right thing to do. When Shepard gets understandably upset and goes to leave, Ashley/Kaidan say that you should stay and work with them. You refuse to work with terrorists and leave.
The next time you see Kaidan/Ashley, they have recently been arrested for blowing up a star system and killing hundreds of thousands of people. They claim they had to do it to top the readers and have left Cerberus, but get angry at you if you don't take every word they say as gospel truth. 

The fact is that from Kaidan/Ashley's point of view, you've shattered every reason they had to trust you and done next to nothing to restore that trust. Can you really blame them for not instantly falling into line for you like the old days? It's more amazing to me that Anderson and Hackett actually do trust you, and their higher ranks and resources probably give them a far more complete picture than Kaidan or Ashley ever get.

Modifié par EnerPrime, 21 avril 2012 - 04:21 .

[EnerPrime]

jreezy wrote...

Good defense for the Virmire Survivor. I've thought along similar lines about the situation. Still, I find it sad that someone who has more of a reason to dislike Cerberus buries their grudge because they trust Shepard.

Well, Tali has a whole lot more time to come to terms with Shepard being alive between when she meets him/her agian and when she joins. With Ashley and Kaidan, you get their first reaction and then they are gone until ME3. Perhaps if you met up with them again a few missions later, they would be more receptive to pulling a Chakwas and working with you. As it is, they've got half a colony's worth of survivors to deal with and are probably still dealing emotionaly with Shepard's return. 

[SJNKD]

i see your point, it's exactly how i felt about the situation. Shepard expected them to trust him when he hasn't contacted them since he came back to life.

[CptData]

Actually, it's less the fact ppl dislike the VS for distrusting Shepard but more the issue those people don't even try to understand why the VS acts like s/he does.

Some of them are violently defending their view and feel joy when finally finishing the VS in ME3. Let's say it does not only nullify the sacrifice of the other one, it also dishonors that sacrifice entirely. One of the reasons why my VS Ashley is my LI is the sacrifice of Kaidan. Ditching her for another LI would make Kaidan's death far less meaningful. Sure, that's RPing only, but in my eyes Kaidan wanted his friends to be happy. In my headcanon he knew about Shepard and Ashley.
I think some Kaidanmancers have a similar headcanon: they romance Kaidan not only because he's an awesome character but also to make Ashley's sacrifice more meaningful.

What makes me more sad is the issue with "let's kill the VS". I mean, WTF? It's okay to dislike a character. It's okay to hate someone. ME3 provides a non-violent way to get rid of the VS: allow him or her to join Hackett's team and become a war asset.
Shooting the VS is nearly useless, especially since it's quite easy to convince him/her to drop the gun (imported savegame). It's more difficult with a Shepard from scratch in ME3, but those players shouldn't have that much bad feelings for the VS. So why killing the VS? Just 'cause of feelings? You know, IRL that's called "homicide" - and it's caused by really low motives ... -.-

[KingNothing125]

I've defended the Virmire suvivor mucho on these forums over the past year or so.

Now I'm content to just let VS haters drink their haterade. It's not a hill I want to die on, and I'ma like Ashley despite them (I dislike Kaidan for other reasons).

[Rudy Lis]

CptData wrote...

Actually, it's less the fact ppl dislike the VS for distrusting Shepard but more the issue those people don't even try to understand why the VS acts like s/he does.

Or maybe they do, but their critique is not targeting VS, but their writers?

[L. Han]

I don't blame them for not trusting.

But I did expect them to trust.

[CptData]

Rudy Lis wrote...

CptData wrote...

Actually, it's less the fact ppl dislike the VS for distrusting Shepard but more the issue those people don't even try to understand why the VS acts like s/he does.

Or maybe they do, but their critique is not targeting VS, but their writers?

I usually see "I hate Ashley because she's a racist" but never a comment "I hate Ashley's writer because he made her acting like a racist"

[Rudy Lis]

CptData wrote...

I usually see "I hate Ashley because she's a racist" but never a comment "I hate Ashley's writer because he made her acting like a racist"

C'mon, she's not racist, she just "human-first", not just "human-only".
What I don't like, is how they handled all that "you alive?" and "you not with Cerberus" sub-plots. Got feeling it was done "just for show", and got feeling Kaidan's author had more common sense than one who wrote Ash. Or did Kaidan earlier, and got tired when wrote Ash, if it was same person.
Not to mention Kaidan's more reserved person and conflicts of two Aries.

[lillitheris]

Hate? No. But at the same time, when Kaidan was still questioning me after Horizon, after Mars, after seeing him at the hospital, and during and after the Citadel incident…I can't have someone like that on a crucial mission. Sorry, Kaidan.

The character might be reasonably written, and have reasonable reasons for distrust…but I've plenty of people who don't.

[EnerPrime]

lillitheris wrote...

Hate? No. But at the same time, when Kaidan was still questioning me after Horizon, after Mars, after seeing him at the hospital, and during and after the Citadel incident…I can't have someone like that on a crucial mission. Sorry, Kaidan.

The character might be reasonably written, and have reasonable reasons for distrust…but I've plenty of people who don't.

But the thing is, if Kaidan is willing to turn is gun on Udina for you he is showing you immense trust. The only real reason you've given him to trust you is shooting Cerberus troops, and he knows as well as you and I do that Cerberus would not hesitate to sacrifice people to achieve their goals. Then you show up and point your guns at one of (as far as he knows) Cerberus's primary targets? And the fact is he stops and asks why you're doing it, and is amazingly easy ( I usually don't even have to use the persuade option on either of them) to convince to turn his gun at one of the leaders of galactic civilization on your word alone. Even after all the reasons you've given them not to trust you, the VS gives Shepard way more trust than any average person would.

And if it's about him asking if you would have pulled the trigger, I think that's a reasonable question given how many people say yes. And after that, he doesn't ever question you more that Tali or Garrus or anyone else on your team.

[lillitheris]

EnerPrime wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Hate? No. But at the same time, when Kaidan was still questioning me after Horizon, after Mars, after seeing him at the hospital, and during and after the Citadel incident…I can't have someone like that on a crucial mission. Sorry, Kaidan.

The character might be reasonably written, and have reasonable reasons for distrust…but I've plenty of people who don't.

But the thing is, if Kaidan is willing to turn is gun on Udina for you he is showing you immense trust.

I disagree about the scene, especially in-character.

And if it's about him asking if you would have pulled the trigger, I think that's a reasonable question given how many people say yes. And after that, he doesn't ever question you more that Tali or Garrus or anyone else on your team.

Supposedly. I don't know if I can trust him if things get tight. What if there's another situation where there's Cerberus involvement – who will he get killed by hesitating that moment rather than trusting implicitly?

You can't simultaneously argue that Kaidan/Ash is justified in mistrust and that Shepard isn't

[EnerPrime]

lillitheris wrote...

Supposedly. I don't know if I can trust him if things get tight. What if there's another situation where there's Cerberus involvement – who will he get killed by hesitating that moment rather than trusting implicitly?

You can't simultaneously argue that Kaidan/Ash is justified in mistrust and that Shepard isn't

Except that you can bring the VS to other stituation where ther's Cerberus involvement, and they never question you again. And considering that they still have no guarantee that TIM didn't install a control chip in your head without Miranda knowing, meaning that TIM could just say 'tiddlywinks' or some other code phrase that  turns you into the Cerberus meat puppet they feared Shepard could have been all long, that's a pretty big thing.

And Ashley and Kaiden are far more justified in any mistrust than Shepard could ever be. They stayed as loyal Alliance soldiers and refused to join terrorists for Shepard, and then doubted him/her when he/she showed up and started aiming at a council member while Cerberus is trying to kill the council. Shepard was believed dead for two years, came back and worked with terrorists, and then killed 300000 people why flying in a ship covered in Cerberus logos. One of those sentences was areally god reason not to trust someone. The other is the VS's actions.

[Reikilea]

I thought all Vs says on Horizon is actually really logical. Somethimes I think the player are just blind to his reason. People should use their brain somethimes while playing. I wasnt even angry at him. Even I thought Shepard sudden rise from a death sounded rather suspicious.

I mean just look at it. You amazing Allience officer, possible Akuze survivors, dies in a herpic death saving the crew, where your LI had to watch you die and when you told him to get lost. And suddenly you appear two years later, alive and kicking and wow working with Cerberus. The Cerberus most infamous terrorist organization. And never send a message to Kaidan or Ashley informing them you are alive, they had to found out from someone else, Shepard did even save him on Horizon and most possibly cheated on him with Garrus or Tali (who both suddenlz dissapeared some time ago, ehm not suspicious at all?), or worse Cerberus officer. And dont think you even replied to their apology message.

And then you killed one star system and went to prison. Or possibly gave Collectors base to TIM as a nice present from a ex alliance to most infamus terrorist organisation. Definitely not suspicious.

And besides Alliance wanted to arrest you before you did all this.

To say frankly I was suprised he didnt punch me. My Shepard would definitely punch someone who would do something like this to him.

Kaidan/Ash have right to question you. I am quite happy someone do it. So you worked with Cerberus now Cerberus is trying to sabotage whole Reaper fight. And he/she as a high ranking Alliance officer is not even allowed to say a word about it. So you would rather have puppets without their own mind following you?

Common people wake up. There is a logical reason behind their behaviour. And moreover they apologize in a hospital. And the coup - saved the council from Cerberus and woho who is that Sheprd with a gun trying to kill councilour. Again - this is so not suspicious. The decision VS must do there is more that a big one. And I always let them kill Udina.

I am actually tired of people complaining about VS, caling them stupid and annoying. All they do is act normal.

Edit: I mean VS act normal. Those who cant understand writing behind them are just irrational.

Modifié par Reikilea, 21 avril 2012 - 04:08 .

[Rudy Lis]

Yes, writing back to VS is my favorite part. Well, lack of possibility to do that. And it doesn't seem Anderson (in my case) informed VS about Shepard being alive even if first thing you do after Shepard get control over SR2 is to paying Anderson a visit.

[lillitheris]

EnerPrime wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Supposedly. I don't know if I can trust him if things get tight. What if there's another situation where there's Cerberus involvement – who will he get killed by hesitating that moment rather than trusting implicitly?

You can't simultaneously argue that Kaidan/Ash is justified in mistrust and that Shepard isn't

Except that you can bring the VS to other stituation where ther's Cerberus involvement, and they never question you again.

I'm sorely tempted to make a sarcastic comment about roleplaying, because it seems there's a trend on these boards to not have any idea what that means. You've displayed that that's probably not the case with you, so I'm a bit baffled.

In that moment, how is Shepard supposed to know what will and won't happen in the future?

(Also, did you forget about Sanctuary? Rescuing Jacob? Any of the other N7 missions that can happen after that sequence?)

And Ashley and Kaiden are far more justified in any mistrust than Shepard could ever be. They stayed as loyal Alliance soldiers and refused to join terrorists for Shepard, and then doubted him/her when he/she showed up and started aiming at a council member while Cerberus is trying to kill the council. Shepard was believed dead for two years, came back and worked with terrorists, and then killed 300000 people why flying in a ship covered in Cerberus logos. One of those sentences was areally god reason not to trust someone. The other is the VS's actions.

Your framing of the issue is pretty much exactly how I think Kaidan thinks about the situation, despite his split-second turnaround. So I don't think he's a reliable asset. Sorry.

[EnerPrime]

lillitheris wrote...

I'm sorely tempted to make a sarcastic comment about roleplaying, because it seems there's a trend on these boards to not have any idea what that means. You've displayed that that's probably not the case with you, so I'm a bit baffled.

In that moment, how is Shepard supposed to know what will and won't happen in the future?

(Also, did you forget about Sanctuary? Rescuing Jacob? Any of the other N7 missions that can happen after that sequence?)

Well, by the logic of 'in-character knowlege only', you can obviously never trust Wrex ever again. He was willing to kill Shepard for a genophage cure on Virmire, after all. How can you know that he won't shoot you right in the back if he thinks it's what his people need? It took a whole lot less for Wrex to stop trusting you than it did either Ashley of Kaidan.

And I didn't forget about about the Cerberus missions after the coup. Like I said, you can bring the VS with you to all of them, and the closest I remember either of them come to questioning you is asking how you know Jacob.

Your framing of the issue is pretty much exactly how I think Kaidan thinks about the situation, despite his split-second turnaround. So I don't think he's a reliable asset. Sorry.

That's fine if you don't think he's reliable. I'm just sick of the people who think the VS is a horrible person for not instantly buying into everything Shepard says.

Personally, they both say things along the lines of "I'm not going to doubt you again" (and they don't, but that's metagaming) and they have both proven themselves loyal and honest enough people for me to rely on them again.

[Reikilea]

lillitheris wrote...

And Ashley and Kaiden are far more justified in any mistrust than Shepard could ever be. They stayed as loyal Alliance soldiers and refused to join terrorists for Shepard, and then doubted him/her when he/she showed up and started aiming at a council member while Cerberus is trying to kill the council. Shepard was believed dead for two years, came back and worked with terrorists, and then killed 300000 people why flying in a ship covered in Cerberus logos. One of those sentences was areally god reason not to trust someone. The other is the VS's actions.

Your framing of the issue is pretty much exactly how I think Kaidan thinks about the situation, despite his split-second turnaround. So I don't think he's a reliable asset. Sorry.

In that case who is walauble asset for you... Wrex? He questions you, he nearly sabotaged your Virmire misson, and he is not so trusting gun for hire. Very unreliable squadmate.
Liara? Child of a second antagonist in a game, claming she never saw her mother and wait a minute is a prothean expert too. Suspicous.
Miranda - TIM most trusted officer? (and poor Jacob as a cheating LI and you trusted him to wait for you) not sure if trust them.
Jack- psycho biotic with Cerberus hate has trust issues.
Dont even get my started on Legion. What happened in third game. Omg heretic geth are back. You told me thsiwould not happen.  
Rachni queen.
Tali and her Veetor problem. Her daddy.
Rana Thanopshis or whatever her name is. She was nice example of Shepard - I trust you you do good next time. Hah sorry stupid commander.


You cant expect all people to blindly follow you. They have their own mind. No one is 100% reliable. There are many people who shouldnt be trusted in this game. And Shepard trust them despite that. VS is just one of many. And VS only question you. He never shoots you or anything. They only ask questions. So even in future we cant do that? And in the right moment -  in a very suspicious situation from a Shepard side, he let himself to trust you and turn his/her gun at Udina and possibly shoots him. In my mind that problem solved.
And if VS doesnt lower his gun? Well Sheprd was jerk to him then. Didnt visit in hospital, ignored all mesages and so on. Its normal to act like that then.

Modifié par Reikilea, 21 avril 2012 - 05:00 .

[lillitheris]

Reikilea wrote...
In that case who is walauble asset for you... Wrex? He questions you, he nearly sabotaged your Virmire misson, and he is not so trusting gun for hire. Very unreliable squadmate.
Liara? Child of a second antagonist in a game, claming she never saw her mother and wait a minute is a prothean expert too. Suspicous.
Miranda - TIM most trusted officer? (and poor Jacob as a cheating LI and you trusted him to wait for you) not sure if trust them.
Jack- psycho biotic with Cerberus hate has trust issues.
Dont even get my started on Legion. What happened in third game. Omg heretic geth are back. You told me thsiwould not happen.  
Rachni queen.
Tali and her Veetor problem. Her daddy.
Rana Thanopshis or whatever her name is. She was nice example of Shepard - I trust you you do good next time. Hah sorry stupid commander.

I'm sorry, was this supposed to help your case?

You cant expect all people to blindly follow you. They have their own mind. No one is 100% reliable. There are many people who shouldnt be trusted in this game. And Shepard trust them despite that. VS is just one of many. And VS only question you.

…Constantly. Here's an idea, how about taking a day from the 6 months to come visit? Or, you know, even read the reports about what the Cerberus-sponsored team achieved while the VS observed firsthand how the Alliance was dealing with the situation?

And if VS doesnt lower his gun? Well Sheprd was jerk to him then. Didnt visit in hospital, ignored all mesages and so on. Its normal to act like that then.

Disagree.

Don't need the drama, there's a war going on.

[Reikilea]

lillitheris wrote...

Reikilea wrote...
In that case who is walauble asset for you... Wrex? He questions you, he nearly sabotaged your Virmire misson, and he is not so trusting gun for hire. Very unreliable squadmate.
Liara? Child of a second antagonist in a game, claming she never saw her mother and wait a minute is a prothean expert too. Suspicous.
Miranda - TIM most trusted officer? (and poor Jacob as a cheating LI and you trusted him to wait for you) not sure if trust them.
Jack- psycho biotic with Cerberus hate has trust issues.
Dont even get my started on Legion. What happened in third game. Omg heretic geth are back. You told me thsiwould not happen.  
Rachni queen.
Tali and her Veetor problem. Her daddy.
Rana Thanopshis or whatever her name is. She was nice example of Shepard - I trust you you do good next time. Hah sorry stupid commander.

I'm sorry, was this supposed to help your case?

You cant expect all people to blindly follow you. They have their own mind. No one is 100% reliable. There are many people who shouldnt be trusted in this game. And Shepard trust them despite that. VS is just one of many. And VS only question you.

…Constantly. Here's an idea, how about taking a day from the 6 months to come visit? Or, you know, even read the reports about what the Cerberus-sponsored team achieved while the VS observed firsthand how the Alliance was dealing with the situation?

And if VS doesnt lower his gun? Well Sheprd was jerk to him then. Didnt visit in hospital, ignored all mesages and so on. Its normal to act like that then.

Disagree.

Don't need the drama, there's a war going on.

It did helped my cause. Moreover because it proved you wrong. Back in ME all those yeard ago, with Kaidan and Ash only Alliance soldiers Shepard trusted. You know Alliance soldier are trained as a team. Why would I trust krogan mercenary or kiddo quarian.
And there is ME2. And ME3.
Everyone questions Shepard. Galaxy loves doing that. It didnt even started with Council 'oh yes reapers'

No one was allowed to see you in prison. All Shepard could do was to stare at Vega muscular shoulders. Must have been amazing killer of time. Neither Anderson bothered to show up.

Nice sentiment, but I am sure you found time to go shooting bottles with Garrus or drinking with Vega, or Steve, played chess or had a shower with Samantha. Or stared at Presidium with Liara. So why is one small visit such a problem? It took you like what 5 minutes. You didnt even had to go there for VS you could have it as a detour while visiting Thane.

So there is no valid point in - no time for that, theres a war going on. Even in war there is a time to visit dying squadmate. Oh wait a minute. Thats what people usually do in war.

[lillitheris]

Reikilea wrote...

It did helped my cause. Moreover because it proved you wrong.

You proved me wrong…by giving examples of where going against the gut and trusting someone you have an iffy feeling about doesn't turn out well? Good work. Plus, of course, Wrex isn't a squadmate and has proven to be loyal anyway, and so on.

So there is no valid point in - no time for that, theres a war going on. Even in war there is a time to visit dying squadmate. Oh wait a minute. Thats what people usually do in war.

Those were two different statements. You can tell by the paragraph break inbetween. Also, they weren't dying.

Don't need the drama on the ship, don't need someone I don't trust 100%.

I dunno why you insist that everyone should play the way you see the situation. It's a little silly. There's a perfectly valid case for trusting them, and there's a perfectly valid case for not. Neither is right, they just are.

Modifié par lillitheris, 21 avril 2012 - 06:15 .

[Reikilea]

lillitheris wrote...

Reikilea wrote...

It did helped my cause. Moreover because it proved you wrong.

You proved me wrong…by giving examples of where going by the gut and trusting someone you have an iffy feeling about doesn't turn out well? Good work. Plus, of course, Wrex isn't a squadmate and has proven to be loyal anyway, and so on.

So there is no valid point in - no time for that, theres a war going on. Even in war there is a time to visit dying squadmate. Oh wait a minute. Thats what people usually do in war.

Those were two different statements. You can tell by the paragraph break inbetween. Also, they weren't dying.

Don't need the drama on the ship, don't need someone I don't trust 100%.

I dunno why you insist that everyone should play the way you see the situation. It's a little silly. There's a perfectly valid case for trusting them, and there's a perfectly valid case for not. Neither is right, they just are.

Yeah loyal. To the point where you have to kill him. Same in third game.

Well dying. No one was sure after the first visit. But you did find time to visit Thane. I see your point then.

No this whole thread was about trying to understand VS. Silly is that that exacly you never did. Understood them. I may be silly too, but I see their reason. And to think all Shepard wanted was to be back in Alliance in ME3. Whole Alliance mistrusted him.

Well then let them die,  or send them to Hackett if you dont like then. I dislike many characters in ME universe too (starting with EDI, Jack, Liara and so on) and cant even kill them off. At least Bioware gave you choide to dispose of them. Thats ME universe, its your choice. But bashing them without reason is something completely different. After all its clear what Bioware intented with them - same as Udina only used them to create another ingame conflict. They were asking for it. They were the only Alliance squadmates in the first game.  It was logicall.

So yup you have your own reason to consider to not trust them. Its your game.

[lillitheris]

Reikilea wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Reikilea wrote...

It did helped my cause. Moreover because it proved you wrong.

You proved me wrong…by giving examples of where going by the gut and trusting someone you have an iffy feeling about doesn't turn out well? Good work. Plus, of course, Wrex isn't a squadmate and has proven to be loyal anyway, and so on.

So there is no valid point in - no time for that, theres a war going on. Even in war there is a time to visit dying squadmate. Oh wait a minute. Thats what people usually do in war.

Those were two different statements. You can tell by the paragraph break inbetween. Also, they weren't dying.

Don't need the drama on the ship, don't need someone I don't trust 100%.

I dunno why you insist that everyone should play the way you see the situation. It's a little silly. There's a perfectly valid case for trusting them, and there's a perfectly valid case for not. Neither is right, they just are.

Yeah loyal. To the point where you have to kill him. Same in third game.

Well dying. No one was sure after the first visit. But you did find time to visit Thane. I see your point then. 

Do you make a habit of leaving out essential information (in ME, if Wrex is loyal = armor or you can charm him, in ME3 only after you betray him), embellishing situations (Kaidan/Ash dying) and just flat-out inventing stuff (whether or not the character visits Thane, or whether Thane's even alive), or am I a special case?

It's quite hard to debate reasonably with you (seems a common theme on this particular forum), so I'll just leave you to it…

Modifié par lillitheris, 21 avril 2012 - 06:48 .

[Reikilea]

lillitheris wrote...

Reikilea wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Reikilea wrote...

It did helped my cause. Moreover because it proved you wrong.

You proved me wrong…by giving examples of where going by the gut and trusting someone you have an iffy feeling about doesn't turn out well? Good work. Plus, of course, Wrex isn't a squadmate and has proven to be loyal anyway, and so on.

So there is no valid point in - no time for that, theres a war going on. Even in war there is a time to visit dying squadmate. Oh wait a minute. Thats what people usually do in war.

Those were two different statements. You can tell by the paragraph break inbetween. Also, they weren't dying.

Don't need the drama on the ship, don't need someone I don't trust 100%.

I dunno why you insist that everyone should play the way you see the situation. It's a little silly. There's a perfectly valid case for trusting them, and there's a perfectly valid case for not. Neither is right, they just are.

Yeah loyal. To the point where you have to kill him. Same in third game.

Well dying. No one was sure after the first visit. But you did find time to visit Thane. I see your point then. 

Do you make a habit of leaving out essential information (in ME, if Wrex is loyal = armor or you can charm him, in ME3 only after you betray him), embellishing situations (Kaidan/Ash dying) and just flat-out inventing stuff (whether or not the character visits Thane, or whether Thane's even alive), or am I a special case?

It's quite hard to debate reasonably with you (seems a common theme on this particular forum), so I'll just leave you to it…

Huh, I wonder where we stopped debating normally. Or when we stopped being reasonable. Its just you mentioned you dont trust Kaidan/ash because they can be completely trusted. So I said that same can apply for a for example Wrex. Indeed everything depends on how you interact with them. If you dont speak with Wrex much, or or dont have enough paragon point, there is a great chance you might kill him. Same can be applied to VS. If you dont really speak to them, you have to kill them during the coup. But if you do you can see the reason behind ther behaviour and made them trust you - by turning on Udina the same guy who tried to use them against you. For me that was quite trustworthy. They never question you again.

Also,  about dying thing. There is a chance Kaidan/Ash may die - you couldnt be sure in the game. I had no idea when I played. (And i did think for a minute they really wanted to kill them). So making sure they are doing well and just one small to see the progress is not that bad. You mentioned you didnt have time to do that. Fair enough, you dont need to do that if you dont care about them. So there is a reason iny why they should trust Shepard again. Shepard didnt even bothered to show up - so VS dont have reason to trust Shepard and so wont stand down during the coup. You said you dont need someone you cant trust 100%. That VS is unreliable. The coup was just typical turning point in the story/plot story drive in the ME story. Now you can find out if VS trusts you. If you interacted with them enough and tried to understand their reasons, they turn their gun on Udina. If not, well bye bye VS. Now I can certainly say some people enjoyed it.

All characters in this game needs a reason to follow you or to trust you. You just need to give it to them. If you dont, well lets say it works both ways. As you said Wrex proved to be loyal, because you were good to him. It works same for VS. After all Shepard ids oding pretty awfull stuff in the game. Everyone can be little worried. 

Oh and believe me, I can only debate reasonably. It goes with my profession. Especially analyzing stuff - my favourite.