524 réponses à ce sujet

[SimonTheFrog]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Its certainly been a wake up call, not just about Bioware but about the industry as a whole (and the medias role in it)  Not that I didn't already know it, I just never really... took it all to heart much. 

Its not just Mass Effect 3 anymore.  Its Bioware's transformation in the recent years, its their behavior as developers just blatantly lying and not giving a ****, like a good faceless business does and this reflects off many other developers in the industry.  Its EA being the greedy soulless corporation that it is, just like all the others in the industry.  Its the media in its just disgusting sellout nature being in the pockets and the beds of the very companies they are supposed to report on and criticize, going far enough to treat us, the very consumers whos dollars provide the blood for their entire system, whos eyes and ears are the audience they serve, like entitled children that they must protect their overlords from.  And many of us consumers ourselves... well... sadly having no real choice but acting like the entitled children we're made out to be.  That or put our money where our mouth is like cold hard laws of capitalism insists and simply not give our money to any of it anymore, which isn't really as much of a perfect option as its foolishly made out to be. 

Theres just so much bull**** everywhere becoming far too visible and indigestible.  I'm starting to get really turned off of this hobby.  At least turned off the more glamorous mainstream part of it and caring less and less about an increasing majority of new games and even less about the people making them and the media reporting on them.  Same thing happened to me years ago for music and not long too ago for movies, both of those industries I now don't really follow at all just cause I know how much bull**** is going on and just stick with the classic stuff and only rarely finding something new (usually indie) that I care about only after its come out. I guess it makes sense for video games to follow that pattern.  I don't see myself really staying in touch with this industry for much longer.  I'm just tired off all the stupid ass-backwards corporate bull**** going on. 

I knew all this already, honestly.  Its just this whole situation with ME3 has braught it all up to the surface, got me thinking about it a lot more.  Making me sick of it a lot more. 

I feel you.

On the plus side, as you already mentioned: the people that truely love games and love creating games still exist. And new ways to get those groups together are emerging everywhere.

Just let big business do it's thing and die out eventually.

[Dragoonlordz]

zarnk567 wrote...

@ Dragoonlordz Jesus just stop. I know what your trying to do, but coming off as condescending to everyone you respond too is not helping anything.

Not everyone. Me and rudy don't tend to agree on ME3 but I am not condecending towards him. Those who I am such towards tend to be the ones using hyperbole and emotional blackmail in arguments as a way to dismiss the content and context of a different opinion. If they wish to be treated better, then stop with the nonsense.

[Brockxz]

Well I somehow feel a little bit the same for now as OP. After finishing ME3 I haven't been able to play any game just for single player and it's story. All i have played since then is some multiplayer or some mindless minigames. ME3 ending just changed my opinion a little bit about gaming as a whole because I don't want to play games to be disappointed in the end. Especially if you invest in that game 100+ hours and multiple playthroughs throughout the whole series. I haven't even able to do one more playthrough of ME# to see if there is any changes with my different Shepards I have.

[Elyiia]

QuantumSheep13 wrote...

People are allowed to vent, no matter how illogical they might seem. If they want to get emotionally invested in a video game series and then get broken up over its crappy ending, let them. No harm done, if you ask me.

@Dragoonlordz, why do you continue? Belittling people isn't going to help your case much.

Because he's just as "bad" as the people he's complaining about. Probably worse, because he's doing it just to get a rise.

[The Angry One]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

@ Dragoonlordz Jesus just stop. I know what your trying to do, but coming off as condescending to everyone you respond too is not helping anything.

Not everyone. Me and rudy don't tend to agree on ME3 but I am not condecending towards him. Those who I am such towards tend to be the ones using hyperbole and emotional blackmail in arguments as a way to dismiss the content and context of a different opinion. If they wish to be treated better, then stop with the nonsense.

I'm glad people have to meet your personal standards of arguing before you won't insult and belittle them.
You must be a very lonely person indeed.

You have no idea what context means in any case.

[Dragoonlordz]

Elyiia wrote...

QuantumSheep13 wrote...

People are allowed to vent, no matter how illogical they might seem. If they want to get emotionally invested in a video game series and then get broken up over its crappy ending, let them. No harm done, if you ask me.

@Dragoonlordz, why do you continue? Belittling people isn't going to help your case much.

Because he's just as "bad" as the people he's complaining about. Probably worse, because he's doing it just to get a rise.

And what make you think you know why I do the things I do better than I do? Genuine question.

[Rudy Lis]

Alamar2078 wrote...

Ooh let me guess.  You haven't grown up in an environment where there is both blatant and/or couched racism, bigotry, prejudice, etc.....  Right?

The exact folks that are racially insensitive do exactly those sorts of things.

If you would like to compare notes via PM please feel free.

Rogin?
I guess you took my words as accusation of you in trolling, right?

[Dragoonlordz]

The Angry One wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

@ Dragoonlordz Jesus just stop. I know what your trying to do, but coming off as condescending to everyone you respond too is not helping anything.

Not everyone. Me and rudy don't tend to agree on ME3 but I am not condecending towards him. Those who I am such towards tend to be the ones using hyperbole and emotional blackmail in arguments as a way to dismiss the content and context of a different opinion. If they wish to be treated better, then stop with the nonsense.

I'm glad people have to meet your personal standards of arguing before you won't insult and belittle them.
You must be a very lonely person indeed.

You have no idea what context means in any case.

I shall repeat what you appear to have ignored.

Amusing given the first insults came from you, the rage started with you, the hyperbole started with you. My first post was fairly reasonable and you blew it out of proportions I assume because you lack the emotional self control to deal with conflicting opinions. I think I will leave you there, I have no intention of sinking to your level but feel free to complain about that if wish too.

The phrase stop acting like a child if you do not like being treated like one springs to mind.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 21 avril 2012 - 01:23 .

[Doctoglethorpe]

On the subject of "retiring" from gaming, I won't do that. I never retired from listening to music or watching movies, I just changed my priorities. I'll always play video games, but the games I play will change. Already some of the stuff I'm looking forward to the most are kickstarter and other indie projects, while simultaniously finding myself spending far more time replaying old favorites then I do even thinking about purchasing new games let alone buying any (mass effect 3 is the first and only new game I've played this year so far), when in the past I used to just play every new AAA game that looked even modestly promising just for the sake of keeping up with the current. I'm worn out, or maybe I'm just getting old (early 20's is old?) but thats just how it is I guess.

[QuantumSheep13]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

Its certainly been a wake up call, not just about Bioware but about the industry as a whole (and the medias role in it)  Not that I didn't already know it, I just never really... took it all to heart much. 

Its not just Mass Effect 3 anymore.  Its Bioware's transformation in the recent years, its their behavior as developers just blatantly lying and not giving a ****, like a good faceless business does and this reflects off many other developers in the industry.  Its EA being the greedy soulless corporation that it is, just like all the others in the industry.  Its the media in its just disgusting sellout nature being in the pockets and the beds of the very companies they are supposed to report on and criticize, going far enough to treat us, the very consumers whos dollars provide the blood for their entire system, whos eyes and ears are the audience they serve, like entitled children that they must protect their overlords from.  And many of us consumers ourselves... well... sadly having no real choice but acting like the entitled children we're made out to be.  That or put our money where our mouth is like cold hard laws of capitalism insists and simply not give our money to any of it anymore, which isn't really as much of a perfect option as its foolishly made out to be. 

Theres just so much bull**** everywhere becoming far too visible and indigestible.  I'm starting to get really turned off of this hobby.  At least turned off the more glamorous mainstream part of it and caring less and less about an increasing majority of new games and even less about the people making them and the media reporting on them.  Same thing happened to me years ago for music and not long too ago for movies, both of those industries I now don't really follow at all just cause I know how much bull**** is going on and just stick with the classic stuff and only rarely finding something new (usually indie) that I care about only after its come out. I guess it makes sense for video games to follow that pattern.  I don't see myself really staying in touch with this industry for much longer.  I'm just tired off all the stupid ass-backwards corporate bull**** going on. 

I knew all this already, honestly.  Its just this whole situation with ME3 has braught it all up to the surface, got me thinking about it a lot more.  Making me sick of it a lot more. 

The gaming industry has been overtaken by corporate greed, more so than ever before. I myself have stopped caring about new release games in general, especially in the wake of this ME3 debacle. The corruption runs rife in game developers/publishers these days, with corporations like EA doing their damndest to suck money out of people whilst gutting decent developers. And then there's the whole "professional reviewer" thing that seems suspect, considering places like IGN gush about games like ME3 without mentioning any of the obvious flaws. "Give our game a good review and we'll keep giving you advertising revenue," say the EA excecutives.

[Elyiia]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

QuantumSheep13 wrote...

People are allowed to vent, no matter how illogical they might seem. If they want to get emotionally invested in a video game series and then get broken up over its crappy ending, let them. No harm done, if you ask me.

@Dragoonlordz, why do you continue? Belittling people isn't going to help your case much.

Because he's just as "bad" as the people he's complaining about. Probably worse, because he's doing it just to get a rise.

And what make you think you know why I do the things I do better than I do? Genuine question.

Because there's only two reasons to resort to calling people names, your argument is weak so you insult them to disguise it or your deliberately trying to get people mad.

[soulprovider]

I know how you feel OP, I see whats happened here and then I remember what happened with activision and 2kgames and then I see things like "the true ending to azura's wrath" it is disheartening, there are good companies out there but they are few and far between.

List of companies to avoid: Capcom, EA,Actvision/vivendi, 2kgames

List of companies I support: Rock star, Indie developers, the makers of Serious sam 3(three guys in a garage, goes back to the old days)

[The Angry One]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I shall repeat what you appear to have ignored.

Amusing given the first insults came from you, the rage started with you, the hyperbole started with you. My first post was fairly reasonable and you blew it out of proportions I assume because you lack the emotional self control to deal with conflicting opinions. I think I will leave you there, I have no intention of sinking to your level but feel free to complain about that if wish too.

Not my fault if you don't read my posts..

The Angry One wrote...

Amusing given the first
insults came from you, the rage started with you, the hyperbole started
with you. My first post was fairly reasonable and you blew it out of
proportions I assume because you lack the emotional self control to deal
with conflicting opinions.

You have a very
selective memory, don't you? Interesting. The only thing that "started"
with me is the hyperbole, which was in fact nothing of the sort.
Did you even read the codex entry I provided? It's not hyperbole when BioWare are the ones making the allegory.
Or do you think they meant for us to think of something else when they described death camps and human slaughterhouses.

The phrase stop acting like a child if you do not like being treated like one springs to mind.

Children tend to become indignant, angry and insulting when their views are challenged.
You know, like you're doing.

Modifié par The Angry One, 21 avril 2012 - 01:25 .

[cuzsal]

the ending really did kill my mood to play games till now, just finshed portal 2 the other day for the first time, wow that was amazing great ending to

but i dont see my self playing any mass effect games again if this ending stays, and ive put in over 600 hours into both part 1 and 2 total :/

[Dragoonlordz]

Elyiia wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

QuantumSheep13 wrote...

People are allowed to vent, no matter how illogical they might seem. If they want to get emotionally invested in a video game series and then get broken up over its crappy ending, let them. No harm done, if you ask me.

@Dragoonlordz, why do you continue? Belittling people isn't going to help your case much.

Because he's just as "bad" as the people he's complaining about. Probably worse, because he's doing it just to get a rise.

And what make you think you know why I do the things I do better than I do? Genuine question.

Because there's only two reasons to resort to calling people names, your argument is weak so you insult them to disguise it or your deliberately trying to get people mad.

Late to the party were you? The first names being called came from elsewhere, the first insults again from others. Personal bias I guess is playing a part in your comment from the looks of it.

[Doctor Uburian]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Doctor Uburian wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It is not a problem with ME3 ending, sounds to me like a problem of your own making developed over time long before you even played ME3. The final 10 minutes of one game should and in my experience does not turn people off gaming unless they already had lost interest in the first place in which case it becomes an excuse to stop or hide behind. There are many greeat games out and coming out, some good and some bad but if your mindset was leaning towards breaking away from gaming in first place then no games no matter how good will change that because at that stage all your doing is looking for an excuse.

No, it's a problem with the ending. Don't presume to play armchair psychologist.
I was an avid gamer before this, so were many others. Now we're put off. Were we all looking for an excuse?

Yeah, no. Sorry. It's this ending. That's what happens when one experiences an ending where you surrender to Hitler.

Load of crap and full of hyperbole. Grow up.

So try again.

People need to stop treating gaming as an oxygen supply and treat developers with disdain and bile just because you did not enjoy their game. They create it and you chose to buy it. They never threw your mother under a bus or put a gun to your head, so treat it as should do which is a hobby, somethign to pass the time and if gain enjoyment from some titles then great if not then do something else. Stop treating it like a personal affront/offense everytime your not giddy with joy about something. Sell it and buy something else or do something else and leave the throwing toys out the pram for more important issues.

You may see it as Nothing more than an entertainment, but a lot of people see it like something inspiring. 
Yea, Mass Effect is nothing more than a video Game, and Das Capital was nothing more than a book. 

Feel free to be very specific about what exactly ME3 inspires in you. I would like to hear it.

It gives me hope, enthusiasm, and enhances my motivation to work with persons who are not like i am.

At least until the last ten minutes 

Modifié par Doctor Uburian, 21 avril 2012 - 01:25 .

[Kileyan]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

QuantumSheep13 wrote...

People are allowed to vent, no matter how illogical they might seem. If they want to get emotionally invested in a video game series and then get broken up over its crappy ending, let them. No harm done, if you ask me.

@Dragoonlordz, why do you continue? Belittling people isn't going to help your case much.

Because he's just as "bad" as the people he's complaining about. Probably worse, because he's doing it just to get a rise.

And what make you think you know why I do the things I do better than I do? Genuine question.

Weren't you that guy a page back that was playing psychologist and knowing why everyone does what they do, and even taking your intimate knowledge of them to judge their personal lives on a video game forum, where all you supposedly want to do is talk about video games?

[Alamar2078]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Alamar2078 wrote...
A lot of things BW / EA has said about the game aren't lies but they were happy to inentionally mislead folks about the game content, structure, etc.

Heck they're still doing it with the ad talking about 75 perfect review scores and the ME3 enging causing the greatest fan reaction in the history of gaming.   None of this is a lie.   However BW loses the moral high ground as soon as they omit vital pieces of information like the biggest part of the fan reaction has been NEGATIVE.

What are you talking about, firstly it is an article based on EA not Bioware so Bioware are not ever part of it.

Secondly EA exist to make money, sell their products, they never sought the moral highground to begin with.

You projecting your own morality onto their business decision to promote their product. I am guessing you do not own a business based on your comment. They are not selling medical supplies to the third world or cures for poverty. Stop making mountains out of molehills.

I am referring to an ad for ME3 where BW / EA is intentionally misleading those folks that don't know better.  Claiming 75 perfect review scores is certainly true.   Claiming that the ending for ME3 has generated the largest fan reaction in the history of gaming is likely true.   Not mentioning that the biggest parts of the fan reaction has been OVERWHELMINGLY NEGATIVE is deceptive advertising.  Perhaps not illegal but it certainly would violate the ethical code of conduct I'm expected to use at my company.

This goes to the point that BW's prelaunch hype was also deceptive so folks had every reason to believe the themes, tone, how the game was handled, etc. in ME3 would be consistent with the hype and how ME1 & ME2 were handled.


I agree that EA's primary goal is to make money.  However this goal does not relieve them of the responsibility to live up to certain moral and ethical standards.


While I don't currently own my own business [I work for a Fortune 500 currently] I did run my own business in the past.  I offerred a good product for a good price and more importantly I ran my business in an above-board, clear, ethical manner.


I see you that you seem to be prejuding me.  As someone else would say you may need to watch that as it is sloppy thinking    At best that's a nasty habit to fall into.

[The Angry One]

Dragoonlordz wrote...


Late to the party were you? The first names being called came from elsewhere, the first insults again from others. Personal bias I guess is playing a part in your comment from the looks of it.

You started off calling people children, being snide and belittling.
Don't lie. We can read this topic from start to finish, and everyone except you sees you were the one who began.

[Myrmedus]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

@ Dragoonlordz Jesus just stop. I know what your trying to do, but coming off as condescending to everyone you respond too is not helping anything.

Not everyone. Me and rudy don't tend to agree on ME3 but I am not condecending towards him. Those who I am such towards tend to be the ones using hyperbole and emotional blackmail in arguments as a way to dismiss the content and context of a different opinion. If they wish to be treated better, then stop with the nonsense.

Quite honestly, it doesn't matter why you're condescending and insulting, you're still acting like a douche. Even if it's not you who started flinging insults first - and if that was you TAO then you shouldn't really bother with that because only makes you look worse - it's alot down to the general phrasing and tone of your posts: they come across as though you think you're Emperor of the World.

Besides, while I also would never go as far as to be put off gaming generally because of that ending, I also think the way you experience games (at least based on your description) misses out on alot - being emotionally invested is (usually) a big plus.

Modifié par Myrmedus, 21 avril 2012 - 01:29 .

[Elyiia]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

QuantumSheep13 wrote...

People are allowed to vent, no matter how illogical they might seem. If they want to get emotionally invested in a video game series and then get broken up over its crappy ending, let them. No harm done, if you ask me.

@Dragoonlordz, why do you continue? Belittling people isn't going to help your case much.

Because he's just as "bad" as the people he's complaining about. Probably worse, because he's doing it just to get a rise.

And what make you think you know why I do the things I do better than I do? Genuine question.

Because there's only two reasons to resort to calling people names, your argument is weak so you insult them to disguise it or your deliberately trying to get people mad.

Late to the party were you? The first names being called came from elsewhere, the first insults again from others. Personal bias I guess is playing a part in your comment from the looks of it.

Your very first post in the thread is so condescending it's borederline insulting. So no, the insults might have been subtle, but they started with you.

[LTKerr]

You should play any Valve game like Portal or Half-Life

[Dragoonlordz]

The Angry One wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I shall repeat what you appear to have ignored.

Amusing given the first insults came from you, the rage started with you, the hyperbole started with you. My first post was fairly reasonable and you blew it out of proportions I assume because you lack the emotional self control to deal with conflicting opinions. I think I will leave you there, I have no intention of sinking to your level but feel free to complain about that if wish too.

Not my fault if you don't read my posts..

The Angry One wrote...

Amusing given the first
insults came from you, the rage started with you, the hyperbole started
with you. My first post was fairly reasonable and you blew it out of
proportions I assume because you lack the emotional self control to deal
with conflicting opinions.

You have a very
selective memory, don't you? Interesting. The only thing that "started"
with me is the hyperbole, which was in fact nothing of the sort.
Did you even read the codex entry I provided? It's not hyperbole when BioWare are the ones making the allegory.
Or do you think they meant for us to think of something else when they described death camps and human slaughterhouses.

The phrase stop acting like a child if you do not like being treated like one springs to mind.

Children tend to become indignant, angry and insulting when their views are challenged.
You know, like you're doing.

Oh I read your post and responded to it already thanks.

You went and threw a hissy fit when I called you out on what you did.

Lastly yes I have noticed you become indignant, angry and insulting when confronted with the childish way you tried to counter my reasonable point / initial comment. So I agree people do that as you very much have done yourself from the offset. Now your crying wolf and whining about the fact you have been caught out doing so.

[PaxtonFetel]

Dragoonlordz
You think you're a real person living in the real world? Look at the history books. How many people were killed because of intangible ideas 1. Religious war 2. Ideological differences 2. Racial hatred. This is all the phantoms of existing in the human mind, but their influence is great.