54 réponses à ce sujet

[Ponendus]

MichaelStuart wrote...

The type of character I have always wanted to play, is someone who is old. By old I mean someone who has been adventuring for many years and want to retire, but gets forced into the events of the game.

I like that idea.

[Fast Jimmy]

MichaelStuart wrote...

The type of character I have always wanted to play, is someone who is old. By old I mean someone who has been adventuring for many years and want to retire, but gets forced into the events of the game.

 
Jokes aside, from the original Dragon Age Origins trailers, the Warden is portrayed as a grey haired, grizzled war veteran, to my recollection. More like a seasoned general than the young son of a human noble, or a mage just past his harrowing (since he was obviously human in the trailer and those were the only origins that you could play as a human).

So, on a theoretical level, an older protagonist could be marketed and sold, if people think Origins was successfully marketed and sold... which I do Going from a relative unknown PC release to being ported out to all platforms in a matter of months and given Game of the Year Award, despite being rooted in "dated old gameplay mechanics", like a silent protagonist and slow combat, is pretty succesful in my book.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 22 avril 2012 - 12:26 .

[Maria Caliban]

This topic is so vague as to be meaningless.

Yes, BioWare will put in role-playing. The question is whether it's the type of role-playing you want.
Yes, BioWare will put in choices. The question is whether they're the type of choices you value.

Other things included in game: Characters, plot, graphics, gameplay, and setting.

[cJohnOne]

A new topic entered my mind. Why streamlining is wrong for Dragon Age. It was a good idea for MassEffect but a bad idea for DragonAge. Yes?

[ChaosAgentLoki]

cJohnOne wrote...

A new topic entered my mind. Why streamlining is wrong for Dragon Age. It was a good idea for MassEffect but a bad idea for DragonAge. Yes?

This is a point of yours I can get behind. The streamlining of Mass Effect was fine, however Dragon Age needs to retain the depth of an RPG.

A limited amount of streamlining is fine (cleaning up inventory systems, making the management of skills and abilities more user friendly, etc) however don't go overboard and remove too many forms of customization. I am also fine with a predetermined protagonist (I am a major fan of RPGs in total, Japanese and Western) so that part wouldn't be an issue. However, removing the depth of the player's interactions with the world and cutting it apart for the sake of new fans is not something that should be done. Bioware could easily appeal to new fans by making an in depth tutorial. They really do make games more appealing to many people without ruining the genre.

Modifié par ChaosAgentLoki, 22 avril 2012 - 05:16 .

[MichaelStuart]

I cant say I understand what you mean by streamlining.

If you mean removing game mechanics like needless inventory and skills that don't really do anything, than yes streamlining is good.

If you mean making a game simpler to the point when the game tells to what to do, then streamlining is bad

[ChaosAgentLoki]

MichaelStuart wrote...

I cant say I understand what you mean by streamlining.

If you mean removing game mechanics like needless inventory and skills that don't really do anything, than yes streamlining is good.

If you mean making a game simpler to the point when the game tells to what to do, then streamlining is bad

I think that is the point attempting to be made.

[Emzamination]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Jokes aside, from the original Dragon Age Origins trailers, the Warden is portrayed as a grey haired, grizzled war veteran, to my recollection. More like a seasoned general than the young son of a human noble, or a mage just past his harrowing (since he was obviously human in the trailer and those were the only origins that you could play as a human).

Grey grizzled warden? You surely can't be talking about the sacred ashes trailer?

Modifié par Emzamination, 23 avril 2012 - 05:47 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Emzamination wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Jokes aside, from the original Dragon Age Origins trailers, the Warden is portrayed as a grey haired, grizzled war veteran, to my recollection. More like a seasoned general than the young son of a human noble, or a mage just past his harrowing (since he was obviously human in the trailer and those were the only origins that you could play as a human).

Grey grizzled warden? You surely can't be talking about the sacred ashes trailer?

I am talking about the Sacred Ashes Trailer. 

And stop calling me Shirley. 

The Warden in that trailer is gray haired. And sort of resembles Zaeed from ME. So he's not the prototypical wide-eyed doe most RPGs start off with... even though that is what Hawke and every Origin shows you being. 

[Emzamination]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Jokes aside, from the original Dragon Age Origins trailers, the Warden is portrayed as a grey haired, grizzled war veteran, to my recollection. More like a seasoned general than the young son of a human noble, or a mage just past his harrowing (since he was obviously human in the trailer and those were the only origins that you could play as a human).

Grey grizzled warden? You surely can't be talking about the sacred ashes trailer?

I am talking about the Sacred Ashes Trailer. 

And stop calling me Shirley. 

The Warden in that trailer is gray haired. And sort of resembles Zaeed from ME. So he's not the prototypical wide-eyed doe most RPGs start off with... even though that is what Hawke and every Origin shows you being. 

No he is not, the warden has blonde hair in that trailer with no type of facial hair what so ever.What have you been looking at?

[TEWR]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I am talking about the Sacred Ashes Trailer. 

And stop calling me Shirley. 

The Warden in that trailer is gray haired. And sort of resembles Zaeed from ME. So he's not the prototypical wide-eyed doe most RPGs start off with... even though that is what Hawke and every Origin shows you being. 

I don't think he was grey-haired.





Seemed to be more brown-haired or black-haired to me.

You know what I found slightly funny in an ironic sort of way? The SA trailer had a voiced protagonist, while the DAII trailers didn't have a voiced protagonist (from what I can remember). Yet in-game, The Warden was silent and Hawke was voiced.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 23 avril 2012 - 06:52 .

[Pasquale1234]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

You know what I found slightly funny in an ironic sort of way? The SA trailer had a voiced protagonist, while the DAII trailers didn't have a voiced protagonist (from what I can remember). Yet in-game, The Warden was silent and Hawke was voiced.

I felt the same way about battle cries, at least on the PS3.  The Warden has them, Hawke does not.

[HanErlik]

SA trailer warden was charismatic as hell. It is a shame Bioware will condemn us to a highschool guy again instead of a stern, charismatic figure.

[AlexJK]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Yes, BioWare will put in role-playing. The question is whether it's the type of role-playing you want.
Yes, BioWare will put in choices. The question is whether they're the type of choices you value.

Other things included in game: Characters, plot, graphics, gameplay, and setting.

What about ending...?

Modifié par AlexJK, 24 avril 2012 - 10:56 .

[cJohnOne]

I find it difficult figuring out different characters to roleplay but I think wuold be a great feature to have a game be freindly to roleplaying.

Did we ever get back to discussing Roleplaying in DragonAge?

[5trangeCase]

I found roleplaying easy in both Origins and II.

I created a deep and well-layered character who developed throughout the story and found nothing within my path to halt me. I could write a great deal about the intricacies of Bleu Mahariel and Freya Hawke, but I would bore everyone but myself.

My point is, you can roleplay as much as you wish.

[cJohnOne]

If you could bore us a little bit that would be great. Perhaps the short version.

[Pasquale1234]

It isn't an easy topic to discuss, because people seem to have vastly different ideas about what it means, or at the very least, different playstyles.

I think your question is a valid one, because I don't find the act of watching a pre-defined character move through a cinematic story to be role-playing.  DA2's style put me in the place of the observer, sometimes director, but never the actor or role-player.  The animated avatar and VA are doing the role-playing.  As such, I don't consider it to be an RPG, although I know that many others disagree.  For my part, the answer to the question posed in the thread's title is:  Probably not.

There have been other threads addressing specific topics that are part and parcel of the current concept of role-playing - the dialog wheel, auto-dialog, paraphrases, customization, and various other traditional RPG mechanics.  Many players are asking for greater agency, and a greater degree of control over the PC's behaviors.  What the devs will utlimately do with any of these requests remains to be seen.

[Sidney]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

I think your question is a valid one, because I don't find the act of watching a pre-defined character move through a cinematic story to be role-playing.  DA2's style put me in the place of the observer, sometimes director, but never the actor or role-player.  The animated avatar and VA are doing the role-playing.  As such, I don't consider it to be an RPG, although I know that many others disagree.  For my part, the answer to the question posed in the thread's title is:  Probably not.

Of course it is. Your Hawke and mine made a host of different decisions throughout the game.

One of my favorite parts of DA2 was feeling like the world wasn't just sitting about waiting on me to do everything. People had agendas and activities outside my control. It made the world feel more alive. I really liked that my companions weren't just tools for my to use as I wished. They had lives outisde my control and they did things that I might not have liked.

[Pasquale1234]

Sidney wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

I think your question is a valid one, because I don't find the act of watching a pre-defined character move through a cinematic story to be role-playing.  DA2's style put me in the place of the observer, sometimes director, but never the actor or role-player.  The animated avatar and VA are doing the role-playing.  As such, I don't consider it to be an RPG, although I know that many others disagree.  For my part, the answer to the question posed in the thread's title is:  Probably not.

Of course it is. Your Hawke and mine made a host of different decisions throughout the game.

In your opinion, which may be shared by others, but is obviously not universal.

And it has precious little to do with decision making.  The amount of control I had over Hawke's dialog and behaviors made me feel like a partial director, but not the actor (role-player).

[LobselVith8]

Dakota Strider wrote...

Depends on your (and more importantly, the Bioware DA team's) definition of RolePlay.

They have to get away from the railroad ride plots, that give no significant choices.

I thought that was the main problem with the narrative of Dragon Age II. In Origins, The Warden could be proactive at times, and make choices that mattered: helping save Redcliffe, or abandoning the village; sparing the Anvil, or destroying it; making the decision about who deserved the crown for Orzammar. In Dragon Age II, choices often felt like they didn't matter. I think that problem continued into the two DLCs that were released, and it makes me wonder whether choice is actually going to be a factor in Dragon Age III.

We were told by Mike Laidlaw that Kirkwall would be shaped around Hawke's choices, and that simply wasn't true. Despite Mike Laidlaw's proclamation in his "Thank You" thread about how choice would now matter, his words were followed by Legacy and Mark of the Assassin - two story DLCs that only continued the problem of giving the player choices that really didn't matter.

I also think that it was difficult to shape Hawke to be a particular protagonist. Hawke was pretty much already written by Bioware, where we had to deal with auto-lines, and very poor paraphrasing that made it difficult to determine what the dialogue options would actually have the protagonist verbally say.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 25 avril 2012 - 05:20 .

[ChaosAgentLoki]

I think this differing view on Roleplaying amongst a variety of gamers is what's causing part of the problem. For me, a roleplaying game is defined by the usage of strategy, levels, attributes and skills. The choices and dialogue systems are bonuses (in my case). However, this is not the case for everyone and that is where the trouble with this question comes in.

People's views differ. They don't always agree with one another and there is no feasible way that a developer can satisfy everyone. When it comes to Roleplaying, you either like it or you don't. There seems to be no middle ground (at least not when the game first releases).

[Sidney]

ChaosAgentLoki wrote...

I think this differing view on Roleplaying amongst a variety of gamers is what's causing part of the problem. For me, a roleplaying game is defined by the usage of strategy, levels, attributes and skills. The choices and dialogue systems are bonuses (in my case). However, this is not the case for everyone and that is where the trouble with this question comes in. .

..and I am exactly the opposite. Role playing is about playing a role that requires character agency (choice, interaction and effect on a story or world). Playing a game about levels and skills is nothing that Jagged Alliance and XCOM haven't done but those aren't role playing games. 

Where skills and attributes (but not levels) enter into things is that role playing games (for me) should have the character do things not the player. I hate the lockpicking in Skyrim for example - or decrpyting in ME -  because character skills allows you to access the lockpicking min-game but it doesn't drive success. You the player do.

[Sidney]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

And it has precious little to do with decision making.  The amount of control I had over Hawke's dialog and behaviors made me feel like a partial director, but not the actor (role-player).

You had no less control than you did in DAO. You are never the actor in any CRPG you are always the director because the script has been written for you. In DAO my control only extended as far as having him say the very brief things Bioware allowed me to select him to say and usually those didn't cover my desired responses either.

You and plenty of other are making an artificial distinction between the two games when they both shared the same underlying problem that most RPG's share - limited dialog spoken or not - and a very narrow range of reasons for your actions. The answer is not to say "We want more DAO's limited set of dialog" but to say we want to see the next step in creating a more open and interactive environment for dialog.