86 réponses à ce sujet

[Elysius]

MokahTGS wrote...

 I've updated my demo mod to include 3 blueprints in total: Regular Hydra, Pyrohyrda, and Cryohydra.

Cool. Three hydras.

 

MokahTGS wrote...

Ideally, both the Cryo and Pyro versions should breath fire/ice but I can't seem to get them to do that bit.

I don't know why, but while testing the hydra before its intial release, I couldn't make it breathe fire or cast spells when I changed a badger to a hydra. My eventual solution was to change a dragon to a hydra. That worked.


And now for an important update.

I uploaded a new version of the hydra to both the Vault and the Nexus. The hydra now has a new breath attack animation and attachment points for all the mouths, not just the central one. With the right effects and scripts, the hydra can put a dragon of an equivalent level to shame.

Thanks go to DannJ for recommending a value for the size of the selection capsule in appearance.2da. I've incorporated his recommendation in the new version.

Keep those comments coming, everyone. I'm always open to suggestions for improvement.

Modifié par Elysius, 29 mai 2012 - 09:43 .

[MokahTGS]

DannJ wrote...

I gave my own pyrohydra and cryohydra blueprints the 'cone of fire' and 'cone of cold' special abilities, and they use them fairly well. The fire cone effect doesn't show up, and the cold cone tends to shoot upwards at an angle, but they at least use the abilities and do damage to multiple targets. A couple of custom VFXs, and some new scripts based on the existing cone spells, should do the trick though.

Pyrohydras can apparently also be killed with cold damage. I'm thinking of coming up with a generic troll-like OnDamage script that reads a couple of damage type integers off the creature, so both types of elemental hydra can use the same script (and indeed any other creature that requires specific damage types to die).

I'm having zero luck getting custom VFX to fire the proper direction instead of straight up.  Any tips?  It looks right in the VFX editor, but in game it is messed up.

[Hellfire_RWS]

THe AP objects probably need to be rotated 90 degrees on the skeleton

[Dann-J]

I've created some new VFX for the hydra that fire jets of cold or fire from all five mouths at once:

http://www.neverwint...ds.com/mods/167

It was hell getting them to point in the right direction! I'll get some screen shots up eventually.

Modifié par DannJ, 29 mai 2012 - 11:05 .

[MokahTGS]

 Heres a screen shot of the custom VFX that shoots straight up.  Hellfire mentioned in IRC that:

<hellfire> its the alignment of the APs<hellfire> Take a screen for him/her so they can be rotated correctly
<hellfire> looks like it needs to come down 45 degrees

[MokahTGS]

DannJ wrote...

I've created some new VFX for the hydra that fire jets of cold or fire from all five mouths at once:

http://www.neverwint...ds.com/mods/167

It was hell getting them to point in the right direction! I'll get some screen shots up eventually.

I'd love to hear how you finally managed it.  Would be good information for the community.  I know this issue has plagued more than me.

[Dann-J]

Trial and error. Endless, infuriating trial and error.

I've noticed that cone effects tend to do the same thing with dragons as well.

[Alupinu]

Ok, I have the two scripts installed and the VFX installed but I’m only still getting one cone of fire from the center head. I’m under the impression that all five heads should spit fire. Right? Do I have the right Special Abilities chosen? “Cone of Fire” Am I missing something?

[Elysius]

Hi, it seems there is a problem with the attachment points. I tried Dann's custom vfx, but it looks like the breath effects are spraying the hydra.

 

I'll work on fixing the hydra pronto.

Dann, that was awesome work getting all five attachment points to shoot those effects. Having the hydra use its breath attack animation, however, will require some 2DA editing. I'm going to tinker with the vfx you made and see if I can make the whole thing to shoot as intended.

[painofdungeoneternal]

Sounds like a vfx issue - you'd have to attach it to the correct nodes in the vfx for it to come out of the non main head ( or offset it so it's start location is so far above the origin, but that is hard to set up with scaling )

Not sure if the nodes are set up, or if that is possible, but you might be able to have alternative nodes such as the ones for the hands moved to where the mouth is.

[Dann-J]

The VFX seem to work fine on my machine. They all spray forward and downward from the heads. I did however clone the hydra model to take the 't' out of the filenames for the tinted version. I don't know if cloning it changed it in some way (I can't imagine it would though).

You'll only get the multiple sprays if you set the right local string variables on the creature.

[Elysius]

painofdungeoneternal wrote...

Not sure if the nodes are set up, or if that is possible, but you might be able to have alternative nodes such as the ones for the hands moved to where the mouth is.

Already done. Referencing the picture below, the attachment points at the mouths are (from left to right) ap_foot_left, ap_hand_left, ap_mouth, ap_hand_right, and ap_foot_right.

 

[Elysius]

DannJ wrote...

The VFX seem to work fine on my machine. They all spray forward and downward from the heads.

Strange. I don't know why it looks different on my machine. I would appreciate a screenie of Dann's hydra vfx from a third party.

DannJ wrote...

I did however clone the hydra model to take the 't' out of the filenames for the tinted version. I don't know if cloning it changed it in some way (I can't imagine it would though).

No, that wouldn't affect the direction of the vfx. Anyhow, I'll look into it.

[Alupinu]

Yea, ok, it helps if I read *ALL* the directions.
Works great now, looks really good! Thanks DannJ.

[Dann-J]

Elysius wrote...

Already done. Referencing the picture below, the attachment points at the mouths are (from left to right) ap_foot_left, ap_hand_left, ap_mouth, ap_hand_right, and ap_foot_right.

That'll make creating new VFX a lot easier. I used five copies of the same FX all relative to the mouth, and offset four of them manually to coincide with the other mouths. You've just rendered most of my hard work obsolete...

I wonder if it's possible to create an invisibility effect that only targets specific body parts? Then you could create OnDamage and Hearbeat scripts that make certain heads disappear (perhaps replaced with a blood-spurting effect) when hit points drop below certain levels. The heads could reappear in the same order as it regenerated.

At the very least, it might now be possible to selectively mask each head with a blood-gushing effect large enough to hide the head completely.

[Elysius]

DannJ wrote...

That'll make creating new VFX a lot easier. I used five copies of the same FX all relative to the mouth, and offset four of them manually to coincide with the other mouths. You've just rendered most of my hard work obsolete...

 

Once I re-orient the attachment points, I'm afraid I'll wind up making all your hard work obsolete. Sorry, man. 

DannJ wrote... 

I wonder if it's possible to create an invisibility effect that only targets specific body parts?

To the best of my knowledge, it can't be done in a straightforward manner. The closest I can think of to achieving this kind of effect would be to model the heads as visual effects that can be attached and removed through scripting. That poses a number of problems though. Firstly, visual effect models have their own animations that are independent of whatever creature they are attached to. To switch from one animation to another would require switching visual effects models. The transition would be noticeably abrupt, sort of like seeing someone who had been leaning on a wall a moment ago suddenly standing up straight with no movement between the two poses.

Secondly, a different head/neck model is required for each position on the hydra's body. Heads on the extreme left or right have a more pronounced curvature of the neck than those closer to the center. Multiply those heads by the number of animations to be done, and that's how many head models + skeletons + animations that the hydra will need.

Thirdly, attack animations would be a mess to coordinate. I doubt if the animations among different visual effects can be coordinated, so we'll wind up with heads clipping through each other.

Fourthly, if the player character tries to run off after killing a few heads, the hydra will look strange dragging dead heads around, especially if those heads don't move realistically as if being dragged.

I really gave it a lot of thought when I was rigging the hydra. Unfortunately, the problems involved were far too weighty to spend a lot of time on, especially for one creature. In the end, I decided to give it a fixed number of heads. It's a cop out, I know, but there are lots of other models I would like to work on rather than spending several more months on this creature. 

Modifié par Elysius, 30 mai 2012 - 05:40 .

[Dann-J]

It sounds like the easiest option is to create blood-spurt VFX that are large enough to hide each head individually. The head would still be there - just masked by spouting bursts of glorious gore. You'd have to create at least four individual effects (one head gone, two, three, then four), since I don't think a creature can have more than one visual effect at any one time. A fifth effect (all heads hidden in bursts of gore) would only last as long as it takes for the corpse to decay, so may not be worth the trouble.

Now that each head has it's own attachment point that'd be fairly easy to do.

[Elysius]

Please don't make any visual effects for the hydra until I upload a new version to the Vault and the Nexus. I've just confirmed that rotating ap_mouth downward by 90 degrees will make the default cone of cold vfx shoot correctly. I'm going to re-orient all the other APs and export all the animations anew.

The reason why cone-type spells don't shoot properly from dragons is because the modelers at OEI made the same mistake I did. Cone of cold also shoots upward when black dragons cast it.

[Elysius]

A new update is available at the Vault and the Nexus. I apologize for any inconvenience that my errors may have caused. In recompense, I uploaded a sample visual effect and script for a cryohydra's breath weapon.

Thanks, everyone, for being patient with me as I learn the nuances of creature modeling for NWN2. 

[painofdungeoneternal]

Elysius wrote...

DannJ wrote...

That'll make creating new VFX a lot easier. I used five copies of the same FX all relative to the mouth, and offset four of them manually to coincide with the other mouths. You've just rendered most of my hard work obsolete...

 

Once I re-orient the attachment points, I'm afraid I'll wind up making all your hard work obsolete. Sorry, man. 

DannJ wrote... 

I wonder if it's possible to create an invisibility effect that only targets specific body parts?

To the best of my knowledge, it can't be done in a straightforward manner. The closest I can think of to achieving this kind of effect would be to model the heads as visual effects that can be attached and removed through scripting. That poses a number of problems though. Firstly, visual effect models have their own animations that are independent of whatever creature they are attached to. To switch from one animation to another would require switching visual effects models. The transition would be noticeably abrupt, sort of like seeing someone who had been leaning on a wall a moment ago suddenly standing up straight with no movement between the two poses.

Secondly, a different head/neck model is required for each position on the hydra's body. Heads on the extreme left or right have a more pronounced curvature of the neck than those closer to the center. Multiply those heads by the number of animations to be done, and that's how many head models + skeletons + animations that the hydra will need.

Thirdly, attack animations would be a mess to coordinate. I doubt if the animations among different visual effects can be coordinated, so we'll wind up with heads clipping through each other.

Fourthly, if the player character tries to run off after killing a few heads, the hydra will look strange dragging dead heads around, especially if those heads don't move realistically as if being dragged.

I really gave it a lot of thought when I was rigging the hydra. Unfortunately, the problems involved were far too weighty to spend a lot of time on, especially for one creature. In the end, I decided to give it a fixed number of heads. It's a cop out, I know, but there are lots of other models I would like to work on rather than spending several more months on this creature. 

Hmm it is starting with 5 heads, i think chopping off a head is foolish and we don't even have vorpal swords. However if you do a snake which matches except it has one head, it would be cool to do an appearance change from a one headed snake to a similar 5 headed hydra. I'd really like a snake which works as a complement to what you have done with the hydra, and which is tintable in a similar manner ( really just deleting all but one of the heads ).

I could see a snake coming out of the darkness/vfx even so you cannot see all of it and I could treat it as part of a larger creature. That could implement the hundred headed dragon Ladon for example --> http://en.wikipedia....adon_(mythology)

( a two headed snake would be nice as well but that is dreaming, there actually are a few of those born )

[MokahTGS]

Elysius wrote...

A new update is available at the Vault and the Nexus. I apologize for any inconvenience that my errors may have caused. In recompense, I uploaded a sample visual effect and script for a cryohydra's breath weapon.

Thanks, everyone, for being patient with me as I learn the nuances of creature modeling for NWN2. 

Any chance we can get someone to fix the dragons as well?  I know I have been struggling with this issue on the Jabberwock.

[Dann-J]

Elysius wrote...

A new update is available at the Vault and the Nexus. I apologize for any inconvenience that my errors may have caused. In recompense, I uploaded a sample visual effect and script for a cryohydra's breath weapon.

Thanks, everyone, for being patient with me as I learn the nuances of creature modeling for NWN2. 

I'd already updated the Nexus before reading this, but at least the new scripts I posted now use the breath attack animation.

I had updated the VFX as well (added additional sprays of ice crystals and hot sparks), but with the new attachment points for the other heads, and the fact that cone effects won't be twisted any more, anyone should be able to create new breath VFX easily enough. I plan to create a poison breath weapon as well.

I also found out why my original effects only worked some of the time. I had used acceleration values to twist the cone down from its original high angle, but it seems that acceleration directions don't change with the direction of the effect. So if your test hydras faced north (like mine did) the VFX looked fine, but if they faced south they were 'hissing into the wind'.

[Elysius]

 

painofdungeoneternal wrote...

I'd really like a snake which works as a complement to what you have done with the hydra, and which is tintable in a similar manner ( really just deleting all but one of the heads ).

I'm on it.

MokahTGS wrote...

Any chance we can get someone to fix the dragons as well?  I know I have been struggling with this issue on the Jabberwock.

Fixing the ap_mouth of dragons isn't easy with the current tools that we have. It isn't enough to fix the skeleton. The animations would have to be modified as well to re-orient the AP. Without a tool to import animations, one would have to create new ones.

DannJ wrote...

Elysius wrote...

In recompense, I uploaded a sample visual effect and script for a cryohydra's breath weapon.

I'd already updated the Nexus before reading this, but at least the new scripts I posted now use the breath attack animation.

I had updated the VFX as well (added additional sprays of ice crystals and hot sparks), but with the new attachment points for the other heads, and the fact that cone effects won't be twisted any more, anyone should be able to create new breath VFX easily enough.

 

I have removed the zip file containing my sample cryohydra breath weapon from the hydra download page as it was intended primarily for you, Dann. I've also added a link to your breath weapon page in my description of the hydra. Thanks for your work on the breath weapon.

[Shaughn78]

DannJ

I have a question with the implementation. Since you are changing the two scripts how does it effect ice mephit and cone of fire when not used by a hydra model?

Modifié par Shaughn78, 31 mai 2012 - 11:55 .

[MokahTGS]

Shaughn78 wrote...

DannJ

I have a question with the implementation. Since you are changing the two scripts how does it effect ice mephit and cone of fire when not used by a hydra model?

The creature in question has to have the variable set on them for the override (5 head) VFX to fire.  Otherwise, it behaves as normal.