109 réponses à ce sujet

[Zahxia]

JustifiablyDefenestrated wrote...

 Let me first say that I'm a girl. Just in case my avatar didn't clue you in. And I also play video-games. Shocking, I know.

Posters like you are why the meme "Don't hit on me silly boys" exists.

[AkiKishi]

The only job marketing has is to let me know something exists. Beyond that I don't really care for the flashy trailers that show no gameplay footage anyway.

General gender question: Does it bother anyone if they have to play a character of the opposite gender ?

Female gamers as a whole are like the ultimate casuals, the popular choice games reflect that. It's pick up and play stuff.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 24 avril 2012 - 01:28 .

[Tirigon]

JustifiablyDefenestrated wrote...

 Let me first say that I'm a girl. Just in case my avatar didn't clue you in. And I also play video-games. Shocking, I know.

Let me first say that I am a guy, just in case my avatar didnt clue you in. And I also play video-games. (I wouldnt post on a gaming forum otherwise...) Shocking, I know.

Also I am totally not fat and looking for online attention I lack in real life. Really.

I'm going to be frank here: the marketing for the past dragon age games has been extremely one-sided. The dragon age franchise has, overall, been very inclusive of female gamers. But if you were judging the game based on the ads, you would never know.

I remember seeing Morrigan and leliana and Merril and the likes in the ads. Last I looked they showed some tell-tale signs of female-ness (or, as it is, possibly being drag-queens).

And I do understand why this is. It all comes down to Dogs and Smurfs. 
But I wish it didn't. 

And I dont understand why I should read a long rant by some guy I never even heard of.
But I wish I did.

[hoorayforicecream]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Female gamers as a whole are like the ultimate casuals, the popular choice games reflect that. It's pick up and play stuff.

You're in a thread started by a female gamer, with many posts in it by female gamers, and you've got the gall to say something like that?

[Tirigon]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Female gamers as a whole are like the ultimate casuals, the popular choice games reflect that. It's pick up and play stuff.

You're in a thread started by a female gamer, with many posts in it by female gamers, and you've got the gall to say something like that?

Statistics back him, sadly. Facebook games, Sims and Wii games are apparently the most popular amongst women.


As to who faked these statistics and why, I can not comment, but there it is. Make of it what you want.

Modifié par Tirigon, 24 avril 2012 - 01:51 .

[hoorayforicecream]

Tirigon wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Female gamers as a whole are like the ultimate casuals, the popular choice games reflect that. It's pick up and play stuff.

You're in a thread started by a female gamer, with many posts in it by female gamers, and you've got the gall to say something like that?

Statistics back him, sadly. Facebook games, Sims and Wii games are apparently the most popular amongst women.


As to who faked these statistics and why, I can not comment, but there it is. Make of it what you want.

If you want to go by statistics, this entire genre is an outlier in itself. Men don't play gendered games at all; they play facebook games, mobile games, and call of duty. So how about we put down the random statistics and just go with 'stop speaking for huge swaths of people you have no right to speak for', hm?

[Sacred_Fantasy]

BobSmith101 wrote...

General gender question: Does it bother anyone if they have to play a character of the opposite gender ?  

It bothers me if I have to play ANY CHARACTER regardless of gender. I never get into developer's predefined character. Sometime it's due to physical appearance. Sometime it's due to character's personality. Sometime it's due to character's role. It's just seem wrong to me.

I always create my character. If I create male character, I tend to use myself as reference. If I create the opposite gender I just played the character based loosely on someone close to me. I do that all the time. But I never like playing any role that is forced on me. That;s why I don't play RPG like TW series or Deus:EX or ME 1,  Me 2 ( played once but Sheppard felt too predefined to be my character therefore I don't buy ME 3. ), Final Fantasy, Assasin's Creeds ( bought it but couldn't stand more than 15 minute due to character background),  Alpha Protocol ( unplayable due to buggy console system and targetting system. I couldn't care less to get the patch after I realized there's no character creation  )

[AkiKishi]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Female gamers as a whole are like the ultimate casuals, the popular choice games reflect that. It's pick up and play stuff.

You're in a thread started by a female gamer, with many posts in it by female gamers, and you've got the gall to say something like that?

Statistics back him, sadly. Facebook games, Sims and Wii games are apparently the most popular amongst women.


As to who faked these statistics and why, I can not comment, but there it is. Make of it what you want.

If you want to go by statistics, this entire genre is an outlier in itself. Men don't play gendered games at all; they play facebook games, mobile games, and call of duty. So how about we put down the random statistics and just go with 'stop speaking for huge swaths of people you have no right to speak for', hm?

'Tis how things are.

The "core" of female gamers is much smaller than the "core" of male gamers. You can argue the statistics all you like, but that's how it is.I don't think who created the thread or who posted in it , is in anyway relevent.

It's like any market. Just because they do A does not mean they will do B. Lot's a females played Dogs , but it does not mean they will play Catz. Playing Dogs became a sort of fashion at the time everyone had to have a dog.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 24 avril 2012 - 02:04 .

[Tirigon]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

If you want to go by statistics, this entire genre is an outlier in itself. Men don't play gendered games at all; they play facebook games, mobile games, and call of duty. So how about we put down the random statistics and just go with 'stop speaking for huge swaths of people you have no right to speak for', hm?

That is not true.

Men are the main demographic of RPGs. To an even larger margin than in CoD; there are surprisingly many female CoD clans.

[hoorayforicecream]

Tirigon wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

If you want to go by statistics, this entire genre is an outlier in itself. Men don't play gendered games at all; they play facebook games, mobile games, and call of duty. So how about we put down the random statistics and just go with 'stop speaking for huge swaths of people you have no right to speak for', hm?

That is not true.

Men are the main demographic of RPGs. To an even larger margin than in CoD; there are surprisingly many female CoD clans.

It doesn't matter whether they are the main demographic or not. RPGs are an outlier when it comes to overall "gamer" statistics. The best-selling RPG ever was Skyrim, and that didn't sell more than 15 million copies. Angry Birds had over 300 million downloads. Even if only 1/3 of those were men (which I seriously doubt), that's still 6.6 male Angry Birds players to one RPG player.

The whole point of this thread is to point out that marketing in DA has been heavily skewed towards men, and that many posters in this thread would like to see that change. Bioware did take a good step forward, with the FemShep versions of ME3's boxed game and trailer. I'm hoping they continue to do so with both the male and female versions of the protagonist for DANext.

[David Gaider]

I kind of resist the notion that we would have to switch to a female protaganist in the marketing in order to "prove" that our game holds any appeal to female gamers-- particularly for fans who are already on our forums and know very well that's the case. But I guess I would, being a guy, so it's very easy for me to say that this isn't an issue. So that's certainly fair.

From my personal perspective, I wouldn't mind seeing a female protaganist in the marketing just for the sake of having something a little different. I'm a big fan of strong female characters, after all. Whether that's good marketing, however, is quite something else... I'm not sure I actually buy the argument that female characters are somehow less marketable to the mass audience, but then again I'm not their target. I'm already fully-informed and bought-in, so for me it's purely an aesthetic thing-- which, I suspect, is the case for many people here as well.

Even so, it'd be nice. Like some have pointed out, Dragon Age is a pretty female-friendly game (provided you believe that "female-friendly" needn't involve things like puzzles, ponies or lack of combat-- which I certainly do) and it'd be nice to trumpet that more than we currently do.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Women just don't like too much violence in their games. They are not build for kill and destroy like men do. It's not their nature. Therefore it's reflected through the choices of their games like Facebook games, The sims, dating simulation etc... Mostly social based games, I think. Well... not all of them.

[AkiKishi]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

It doesn't matter whether they are the main demographic or not. RPGs are an outlier when it comes to overall "gamer" statistics. The best-selling RPG ever was Skyrim, and that didn't sell more than 15 million copies. Angry Birds had over 300 million downloads. Even if only 1/3 of those were men (which I seriously doubt), that's still 6.6 male Angry Birds players to one RPG player.

The whole point of this thread is to point out that marketing in DA has been heavily skewed towards men, and that many posters in this thread would like to see that change. Bioware did take a good step forward, with the FemShep versions of ME3's boxed game and trailer. I'm hoping they continue to do so with both the male and female versions of the protagonist for DANext.

Think you will find that is Pokemon.

Marketing is skewed towards men ,because men are the largest market. By Bioware/EA's own metrics it's something like 80/20. Now if you could capture that ultra casual female market I'm sure they would love to sell them the game. But it's not worth the gamble of alienating a large % of the male audience for a potential increase in the female audience.

[whykikyouwhy]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Women just don't like too much violence in their games. They are not build for kill and destroy like men do. It's not their nature. Therefore it's reflected through the choices of their games like Facebook games, The sims, dating simulation etc... Mostly social based games, I think. Well... not all of them.

Regarding the bolded - that's a pretty broad generalization to make. And I could easily argue that anyone, female or male, is capable of a kill and destroy mentality or behavior under the right circumstances.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Women just don't like too much violence in their games. They are not build for kill and destroy like men do. It's not their nature. Therefore it's reflected through the choices of their games like Facebook games, The sims, dating simulation etc... Mostly social based games, I think. Well... not all of them.

Regarding the bolded - that's a pretty broad generalization to make. And I could easily argue that anyone, female or male, is capable of a kill and destroy mentality or behavior under the right circumstances.

Yes under the right circumstances which was never proven historically. Name me any female leader who started the war from 1 BC to 2012. Cleopatra doesn't count. 

[whykikyouwhy]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Yes under the right circumstances which was never proven historically. Name me any female leader who started the war from 1 BC to 2012. Cleopatra doesn't count. 

War isn't necessarily about violence, or kill and destroy. War is, more often than not, about politics and land acquisition. I don't see the initiation or order to send troops as being indicative of the "nature" argument you are trying to support.

[Tirigon]

hoorayforicecream wrote...


The whole point of this thread is to point out that marketing in DA has been heavily skewed towards men, and that many posters in this thread would like to see that change.

http://www.maxim.com...thumbnails=true

Do we get Zevran or  Alistair or Sten modeled by a male adult model or at least underwear model?




That being said, I wouldnt mind marketing the game with a female Warden on the cover - as my avatar might suggest, I prefer them over the male ones anyways.


I just resent the notion that we men are favored by marketing when we are clearly not.

Modifié par Tirigon, 24 avril 2012 - 02:33 .

[AkiKishi]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Women just don't like too much violence in their games. They are not build for kill and destroy like men do. It's not their nature. Therefore it's reflected through the choices of their games like Facebook games, The sims, dating simulation etc... Mostly social based games, I think. Well... not all of them.

Regarding the bolded - that's a pretty broad generalization to make. And I could easily argue that anyone, female or male, is capable of a kill and destroy mentality or behavior under the right circumstances.

Yes under the right circumstances which was never proven historically. Name me any female leader who started the war from 1 BC to 2012. Cleopatra doesn't count. 

Margaret Thatcher. 
 
My daughter does not like to kill people.She's fine with monsters but avoids games where you kill recognisable people.
My son on the other hand sees everything as a target or a challenge to be overcome and does not dwell so much on what he's actually doing.

They are only 7 (almost 8) so it's only abstract. Not even close to the Dragon Age type realism.

[Tirigon]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Yes under the right circumstances which was never proven historically. Name me any female leader who started the war from 1 BC to 2012. Cleopatra doesn't count. 

War isn't necessarily about violence, or kill and destroy. War is, more often than not, about politics and land acquisition. I don't see the initiation or order to send troops as being indicative of the "nature" argument you are trying to support.

Indeed. It is the sad nature of war, and in modern times even more so than in the past, that those who start it suffer the least on account of sitting in their stronghold feasting and  enjoying the luxury their inferiors earned.

It is the peasants who suffer.

[AkiKishi]

Tirigon wrote...

It is the peasants who suffer.

War never changes..

[Sacred_Fantasy]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Yes under the right circumstances which was never proven historically. Name me any female leader who started the war from 1 BC to 2012. Cleopatra doesn't count. 

War isn't necessarily about violence, or kill and destroy. War is, more often than not, about politics and land acquisition. I don't see the initiation or order to send troops as being indicative of the "nature" argument you are trying to support.

It's indicates that female doesn't have the intinct to acquire land or position in politic through force. They don't concern things that men lust for like land and political position. They only kill and destroy if they are insane or under great pressure. They never kill for land and power which is what always being potrayed by most games..

[AkiKishi]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Yes under the right circumstances which was never proven historically. Name me any female leader who started the war from 1 BC to 2012. Cleopatra doesn't count. 

War isn't necessarily about violence, or kill and destroy. War is, more often than not, about politics and land acquisition. I don't see the initiation or order to send troops as being indicative of the "nature" argument you are trying to support.

It's indicates that female doesn't have the intinct to acquire land or position in politic through force. They don't concern things that men lust for like land and political position. They only kill and destroy if they are insane or under great pressure. They never kill for land and power which is what always being potrayed by most games..

Maybe it's just English women then... Remember Queen Victoria? You don't get an Empire without spilling some blood even it's for some vision of the greater good.

[David Gaider]

BobSmith101 wrote...
[/b]Marketing is skewed towards men ,because men are the largest market. By Bioware/EA's own metrics it's something like 80/20. Now if you could capture that ultra casual female market I'm sure they would love to sell them the game. But it's not worth the gamble of alienating a large % of the male audience for a potential increase in the female audience.

Couple of comments on this:

1) Across all game types, female gamers make up 42% of the base (you can look at an interesting survey done in 2011 here). Now I'm sure the figures skew differently when looking at different genres, yes, but surely the leap for a gamer from non-RPG-player to RPG-player is shorter than the leap from non-gamer to RPG-player... and perhaps even shorter from MMO-player to RPG-player, since MMO's are one of those genres that everyone seems to agree has a high percentage of female players. Make of that what you will.

2) I'm not sure that having a female protaganist in the marketing actually alienates the male player base... any more than having a male one alienates the female player base currently. Though it seems an odd argument to make when some claim a male protaganist alienates female players but that the reverse wouldn't also be true. Seems to be pretty selective reasoning, if you ask me. But there's a lot of selective reasoning to go around, so why not?

3) The "potential" increase in sales you note is really the truth of the matter, as I see it. While I'm not part of our marketing department, I'd suspect the reason that such marketing tends to follow a common path is because it's seen as less risky. There's a lot of money at stake, and the benefits of targeting the largest demographic are seen as tried and true... while targeting what's seen as a smaller demographic has as much potential for failure as for success. Is that actually the case? I'm not sure-- and personally I'm wondering if there isn't an under-serviced market waiting to be solicited-- but I kind of doubt any marketing person is going to put much stock in marketing advice coming from people whose interest in the marketing has little to do with marketing-- or, rather, who's interest is primarily in how the game is marketed to people who are already invested. Which, I imagine, to your average marketing person, has limited value. But perhaps that's cynical of me.

At any rate, those are my thoughts on the subject-- which, again, aren't worth a lot since my participation in such decisions is really limited. But there you go.

Modifié par David Gaider, 24 avril 2012 - 02:44 .

[Tirigon]

David Gaider wrote...

2) I'm not sure that having a female protaganist in the marketing actually alienates the male player base... any more than it alienates the female player base currently. Though it seems an odd argument to make when some claim the male protaganist alienates female players but that the reverse wouldn't also be true. Seems to be pretty selective reasoning, if you ask me. But there's a lot of selective reasoning to go around, so why not?

It may be cynic, but the way I see it is: A male hero is used because every other game uses a male one as well.

Most humans are likely to do what the majority does and (unless BioWare is employing AIs in their Marketing Department) I assume this is true for those as well.