156 réponses à ce sujet

[Whitestrake]

With my Salarian Infiltrator I dump it for Energy Drain, cause it helps keep me on the field, & I built my Quarian Infiltrator around shotguns, & Sabotage.
But I love it for the Human, it's pretty much the only way I do damage other than widow headshots.

[The Final Warrior]

I used to be a Proxy Mine hater, until I rolled a 6/6/6/5/3 Gethfiltrator. I have seen the light, and it is explosive.

(I think, the moment when I really fell in love with PMs, is when I dropped three Guardians with one mine.)

-- Griffinhart

[samb]

Darkslayer557 wrote...

samb wrote...

Wait, prox mine is the 3rd priority? Energy drain is nice but it's kind of useless for Reapers other than the stagger effect. I know farming geth on FBW is all the rave nowadays but you know that prox mine applies to all forms of protection right?

I guess if all you do is kill geth all day then sure.... I can't say that make you an elite sniper or anything but that's your thing. Dump 20% easy increase of all forms of damage (which includes ED BTW), just don't expect me to respect you for it,

The thing is even if there's no 20% damage increase I can still one shot any human sized enemy except phantoms with widow X and cloak energy drain. And the slow recharge of proxy mine makes my 1-3-mouse left combo slower. Makes no sense for a widow X sniper.

As a heavy  hitter you should be focusing on the big stuff.  Sure if they are not around you do some clean up for your team, but when push comes to shove it's your responsibility to kill the other team's heavy hitter before they wipe your squad.  And when taking on things like ravagers, brutes and primes the extra 20% is very noticible.  And the CD of prox mine is irrelevant when you are firing it out of cloak.  

[lolpunch]

6/6/3/5/6 Melee spec GI with Proximity Mine is the best.

Cloak boost + max damage Proxy Mine + 30% boost from Power Synergy in Advanced Hardware + Hunter Mode damage boosts lets you one-shot all basic troopers with it on Gold. It also chunks harder targets like Marauders, Pyros, Hunters, and Centurions to the point where you can just melt the rest of them with one heavy melee from Cloak, because you should take Bonus Power for Rank 6 Cloak with this build or you silly.

Modifié par lolpunch, 22 avril 2012 - 04:24 .

[Darkslayer557]

samb wrote...

Darkslayer557 wrote...

samb wrote...

Wait, prox mine is the 3rd priority? Energy drain is nice but it's kind of useless for Reapers other than the stagger effect. I know farming geth on FBW is all the rave nowadays but you know that prox mine applies to all forms of protection right?

I guess if all you do is kill geth all day then sure.... I can't say that make you an elite sniper or anything but that's your thing. Dump 20% easy increase of all forms of damage (which includes ED BTW), just don't expect me to respect you for it,

The thing is even if there's no 20% damage increase I can still one shot any human sized enemy except phantoms with widow X and cloak energy drain. And the slow recharge of proxy mine makes my 1-3-mouse left combo slower. Makes no sense for a widow X sniper.

As a heavy  hitter you should be focusing on the big stuff.  Sure if they are not around you do some clean up for your team, but when push comes to shove it's your responsibility to kill the other team's heavy hitter before they wipe your squad.  And when taking on things like ravagers, brutes and primes the extra 20% is very noticible.  And the CD of prox mine is irrelevant when you are firing it out of cloak.  

i can kill a ravager in 5 seconds (2 shots). The most threatening thing in the game isn't the guys with the most health (brute, banshee) but those human sized enemy. They kill the most players because there are a lot of them and they have ranged attack. And I can kill a prime from full health in 4 shots, with reload cancelling that's about 10 seconds. At 60666 my cloak recharge finishes right at the moment when my SI puts the thermal clip into the widow so i can cancel the rest of the reload animation by pressing 1-3, followed by another shot. If I had to invest 3 points in proxy mine and give up any of the level 6 I would consider that a waste because I'm so used to go 1-3-mouse left with reload cancelling. 


The reason why I omit proxy mine isn't because it's not useful, but because in mass effect there's only 1 recharge for all your skills, unlike in dragon age each skill has its own recharge. So you can either spam 1 ability or use 2 abilities alternatively. Spamming 1 ability is obviously better because you can invest the points you saved into other passive abilities. And for SI the better active ability is obviously ED since It enables me to take down human sized enemy in one shot, no projectile flight delay and it heals my shield. Maximum survivability + killing efficiency at any range is the name of this build. 


For GI proxy mine is the only active ability so it's obvious you need to invest 6 levels into this ability. That's why I said I have nothing against this ability, it's just in the SI build 60666 works so well that any investment in proxy mine would be somewhat a waste.

Modifié par Darkslayer557, 22 avril 2012 - 04:42 .

[astheoceansblue]

6/6/6/6/0 4 Lyfe!

[The Final Warrior]

astheoceansblue wrote...

6/6/6/6/0 4 Lyfe!

>Lyfe
Not for long, it won't be.

-- Griffinhart

[Viquey]

@Darkslayer: With a PM debuff, you might very well kill a ravager in one shot. I do all the time with my GI, but that's with the claymore, not a sniper.

@general: SIs with 60666 make me sadpanda. Infiltrators don't need fitness unless they're specced for melee. D: And even then, at least in the GI's case, PM is still invaluable for the AoE stagger and debuff. On SIs, it's just... such a waste of points. And why? Just so you can play a little more recklessly or something?

My GI rocks 66660 with a Claymore. Sure with smart choke he can still snipe, but he's most effective up in their faces. Once you know how to manage that 250/375 health/shields, it's no more difficult to stay alive than any other class/race. It's just, you can't make a mistake, but mistakes on gold usually kill anything just as surely as it does my little glass cannon/fragile speedster.

Thus I'd never give up the invaluable proxy mine just for fitness.

Spread the PM love, OP! Just don't be mean about it. >.>

[Darkslayer557]

Viquey wrote...

@Darkslayer: With a PM debuff, you might very well kill a ravager in one shot. I do all the time with my GI, but that's with the claymore, not a sniper.

@general: SIs with 60666 make me sadpanda. Infiltrators don't need fitness unless they're specced for melee. D: And even then, at least in the GI's case, PM is still invaluable for the AoE stagger and debuff. On SIs, it's just... such a waste of points. And why? Just so you can play a little more recklessly or something?

My GI rocks 66660 with a Claymore. Sure with smart choke he can still snipe, but he's most effective up in their faces. Once you know how to manage that 250/375 health/shields, it's no more difficult to stay alive than any other class/race. It's just, you can't make a mistake, but mistakes on gold usually kill anything just as surely as it does my little glass cannon/fragile speedster.

Thus I'd never give up the invaluable proxy mine just for fitness.

Spread the PM love, OP! Just don't be mean about it. >.>

Fitness on all my build. The extra shield boost makes you able to take 1 or 2 hits in gold because of that shield gate mechanism. And I don't take a "very well" argument, you either can one shot a ravager or not, there's no guess. It doesn't help if 1-2 mouse left kills 90% of a ravager's health, that's still a two shot. And I know very well that proxy mine can't guarantee one shot a marauder's shield, but ED can. The 20% damage buff doesn't matter in gold with perfect shield gate if proxy mine can't always one shot the shield of a marauder or centurion. 


AOE stagger can also be achieved by 3m radius ED. Oh and it's not just a stagger, it's stun.

[AwesomeDudex64]

Stupid thread.

Let people create their own builds and quit giving a damn.

[samb]

Curious and off topic; but why max hunter mode with a sniper GI. I don't really need a lot of the things it offers. Using a javelin, I don't need better RoF, better vision is nice but I can't really shot things past 3 walls anyway. Would I be okay with just 3-4 ranks in it?

I don't think I need fitness if I'm cloaked most of time and only really expose myself to fire a prox mine, also from cloak. Maybe 5 in prox mine and 3 in fitness? Not a fan of melee but I have seen it rock the house before.

To all the naysayers, try 5 ranks of prox mine and become believers. If you thought you were good, using prox mines well will make you feel even better.

[Darkslayer557]

samb wrote...

Curious and off topic; but why max hunter mode with a sniper GI. I don't really need a lot of the things it offers. Using a javelin, I don't need better RoF, better vision is nice but I can't really shot things past 3 walls anyway. Would I be okay with just 3-4 ranks in it?

I don't think I need fitness if I'm cloaked most of time and only really expose myself to fire a prox mine, also from cloak. Maybe 5 in prox mine and 3 in fitness? Not a fan of melee but I have seen it rock the house before.

To all the naysayers, try 5 ranks of prox mine and become believers. If you thought you were good, using prox mines well will make you feel even better.

can proxy mine one-shot a marauder's shield in gold?

[PnXMarcin1PL]

proximity mine will never beat skilled sniper in cloak

[samb]

AwesomeDudex64 wrote...

Stupid thread.

Let people create their own builds and quit giving a damn.

I have no problem with people playing as poorly as they want but when they give advice that is unsound and spearing that stupidity then I have objections.  ED is great if all you do is hunt geth on FBW but prox mine applies to all. And don't say 20% doesn't matter because of shield gate. The debuff doesn't care about that it just works and works through all forms of protection. 

[Ravennus]

I notice that no one has brought up that the cloak bonus damage applies to Proximity Mine as well.

If specced for it, that's +90% damage when it explodes.
Fun fact... it keeps this bonus damage even if someone triggers it and you aren't in cloak.
Another fun fact... if your cooldown is low enough, you can actually shoot TWO Proximity Mines within the span of one cloak.

There are times on my GI where this is actually the smarter thing to do, especially vs. hard targets that my team is focusing down. I could be wrong, but the +20% damage from all sources seems to stack.


The only class I don't like PMs as much is on my Turian Soldier... but even then it has it's uses.
But on any Infiltrator, they are AMAZING if used right.

I never gave them a chance on my SI until after I saw the light when trying them on my melee Geth Infiltrator.
Having both maxed Mines and Energy Drain makes you so versatile it's simply amazing.

[samb]

Darkslayer557 wrote...

can proxy mine one-shot a marauder's shield in gold?

Isnt that what you have ED for?  You know that SI has both abilities right?  You are talking like you didn't know that. You can strip shields with ED and then use PM and shot combo from cloak. Nothing is stopping you from doing that other than yourself. 

[Lukeman1884]

samb wrote...

AwesomeDudex64 wrote...

Stupid thread.

Let people create their own builds and quit giving a damn.

I have no problem with people playing as poorly as they want but when they give advice that is unsound and spearing that stupidity then I have objections.  ED is great if all you do is hunt geth on FBW but prox mine applies to all. And don't say 20% doesn't matter because of shield gate. The debuff doesn't care about that it just works and works through all forms of protection. 

Marauders. Banshees. Centurions. Nemesises. Phantoms. Atlases. I'm pretty sure ED has more applications than hunting geth on FBW. And the 40% DR can mean life or death if you're sniped by a stray ravager. And honestly, the insulting attitude you're taking towards anyone who isn't agreeing with you REALLY isn't helping your case, it's just making you look like a bit of a dick.

[Darkslayer557]

samb wrote...

AwesomeDudex64 wrote...

Stupid thread.

Let people create their own builds and quit giving a damn.

I have no problem with people playing as poorly as they want but when they give advice that is unsound and spearing that stupidity then I have objections.  ED is great if all you do is hunt geth on FBW but prox mine applies to all. And don't say 20% doesn't matter because of shield gate. The debuff doesn't care about that it just works and works through all forms of protection. 

say a marauder has 100 shield and 100 health, a proxy mine takes out 80% shield, you head shot him and he has 0 shield and 100 health therefore you need another shot.

But with ED that one shots the 100 shield you don't need the second shot. just ED followed by a shot and he's dead.

Well, unless you're playing silver or bronze where the shield gate isn't 100% damage reduction. 
And my 60666 build came from careful calculation, experimenting and thinking since the beta. Trust me I've used proxy mine extensively. I've used SI shotgun build extensively. And my conclusion after 2 months of playing is that 60666+widowX + penetration mod + barrel is the best SI build I know. Works well against All enemy types and maps. And no, I don't farm FWG in fact i quit the lobby immediately after I see FWG.

[samb]

@Ravennus:
You can get two prox mines out? Taking the bonus power cloak? I would like to know this trick you speak of.

[Darkslayer557]

samb wrote...

Darkslayer557 wrote...

can proxy mine one-shot a marauder's shield in gold?

Isnt that what you have ED for?  You know that SI has both abilities right?  You are talking like you didn't know that. You can strip shields with ED and then use PM and shot combo from cloak. Nothing is stopping you from doing that other than yourself. 

What's the point of using proxy mine if i can one shot the shield with ED and one shot the health using my widow X? Killing a full shielded marauder takes 0.5 seconds, why do you need proxy mine? That's why I'm asking because if you're going to substitute 1-3-mouse left with 1-2-mouse left you gotta have some reasons. And you talk in the way as if you can fire a proxy mine immediately after a ED.

Modifié par Darkslayer557, 22 avril 2012 - 05:21 .

[Ravennus]

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

proximity mine will never beat skilled sniper in cloak

To be honest... a lot of classes and builds can beat a skilled sniper in cloak on higher difficulties.

Not that I have an issue with having a good one in my team in Gold, but on higher difficulties it's about taking out large groups and crowd control.
A good sniper, as long as they are aware of Shield Gate and plan for it, is definitely a good player to have so long as they focus the really hard targets or annoying targets (Ravagers).... but really, they don't often top the charts in a well built Gold team.  They become more support... great support if played well, but support none the less.

Especially with Widows, Javelins, etc..... even if you are a perfect shot EVERY time, you are either only 1-shotting a single mook every 3ish seconds (which is a waste of your abilties) or helping to knock down the harder targets.

VS. Biotic explosions, tech explosions, and good AoE based classes you will not be getting top score, nor should you.

It's a team game, and there's nothing worse in Gold than a lone wolf sniper who thinks he can flip the bird to his teammates and solo the whole mission by himself.
A single good sniper can still bring a lot to the team, so long as they throw their 'sniper ego' out the window.

[samb]

@Darkslayer557
I know what you are saying, and I am not contending that ED is a good ability. My point is you can have both. Anything that doesn't go down with cloak-ED sniper shot will go down with cloak-PM sniper shot. You alternate once the shields are down.
It's not one or the other, why squander a perfectly good power is my point.

[The_Shootist]

shpaiderman wrote...

cause salarian inflitator has energy drain which is easily the best ability in the game...

And . . . so?

[Ravennus]

samb wrote...

@Ravennus:
You can get two prox mines out? Taking the bonus power cloak? I would like to know this trick you speak of.

No real trick.  The thing with firing powers in cloak.... is that they still have their cooldown.
Ever tried to fire a PM then immediately uncloak after?  Notice you can't and the cooldown brackets are active and slowly tightening in on the crosshair?

If your cooldowns are low enough you can fire the first proxy mine, wait for it to cooldown normally (while still in cloak) and then fire off the 2nd proxy mine.
The 2nd mine WILL take you out of cloak, but it'll still get all the bonuses from cloak.

It's very useful on my GI who runs around with 200% cooldown from weapon weight and -20% from Hunter Mode.
You don't even need the hunter mode bonus though... you essentially just have to get the PM cooldown to be less than half of the duration of your cloak.

Mine is super fast recharging though, so I'm very flexible with how often I can throw them out during 1 cloak.

[Darkslayer557]

Ravennus wrote...

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

proximity mine will never beat skilled sniper in cloak

To be honest... a lot of classes and builds can beat a skilled sniper in cloak on higher difficulties.

Not that I have an issue with having a good one in my team in Gold, but on higher difficulties it's about taking out large groups and crowd control.
A good sniper, as long as they are aware of Shield Gate and plan for it, is definitely a good player to have so long as they focus the really hard targets or annoying targets (Ravagers).... but really, they don't often top the charts in a well built Gold team.  They become more support... great support if played well, but support none the less.

Especially with Widows, Javelins, etc..... even if you are a perfect shot EVERY time, you are either only 1-shotting a single mook every 3ish seconds (which is a waste of your abilties) or helping to knock down the harder targets.

VS. Biotic explosions, tech explosions, and good AoE based classes you will not be getting top score, nor should you.

It's a team game, and there's nothing worse in Gold than a lone wolf sniper who thinks he can flip the bird to his teammates and solo the whole mission by himself.
A single good sniper can still bring a lot to the team, so long as they throw their 'sniper ego' out the window.

I top the chart 90% with my SI widow ED build. The rest of the 10% times is when my entire team are SI widow builds. With reload cancelling I don't have to wait until my character finishes the reload animation before I can fire the shot. A skilled SI always top charts no matter the presense of AA or novaguard and is the most useful one in the squad (ninja revive and ninja hacking objectives).