156 réponses à ce sujet

[Ravennus]

samb wrote...

@Darkslayer557
I know what you are saying, and I am not contending that ED is a good ability. My point is you can have both. Anything that doesn't go down with cloak-ED sniper shot will go down with cloak-PM sniper shot. You alternate once the shields are down.
It's not one or the other, why squander a perfectly good power is my point.

Exactly.

Give it a chance, at least.  You might be surprised.

Oh, and btw.... on my Geth Infiltrator, 1 proximity mine from cloak will most definitely take out the shields on a Marauder no problem on Gold.

[samb]

@Ravennus:
Oh you chuck a PM out of cloak first then do one in cloak? But the first one won't get the bonus for cloak then right? I don't think I can use this since my black widow is still a bit heavy and I'm not a melee infiltrator but that does open some possibilities.

[Ravennus]

samb wrote...

@Ravennus:
Oh you chuck a PM out of cloak first then do one in cloak? But the first one won't get the bonus for cloak then right? I don't think I can use this since my black widow is still a bit heavy and I'm not a melee infiltrator but that does open some possibilities.

No, sorry.... maybe not explaining well.

The first PM is definitely shot out of cloak for sure with full bonuses.
It's just that all powers shot in cloak (with the Rank 6 Cloak evo) actually have their own internal cooldown.  If you get that low enough, you can shoot a 2nd power off before the cloak duration expires.
The 2nd shot will de-cloak you though, just as if you shot your gun or used a power without the rank 6 evo.

EDIT: And yeah, this definitely won't work on builds that carry really heavy weapons like the Widow, as you need really low cooldowns for the powers normally.

Modifié par Ravennus, 22 avril 2012 - 05:32 .

[Darkslayer557]

samb wrote...

@Darkslayer557
I know what you are saying, and I am not contending that ED is a good ability. My point is you can have both. Anything that doesn't go down with cloak-ED sniper shot will go down with cloak-PM sniper shot. You alternate once the shields are down.
It's not one or the other, why squander a perfectly good power is my point.

OK what I'm saying is my widow X can one shot the health of any human sized enemy including phantoms, so the PM isn't needed for me once the shield goes down. sure it's more useful against boss targets but on gold the extra health can let me survive in emergency situations (reviving someone under fire).

My point was you can't really have both because the way recharging works in ME. In dragon age each ability has its own recharge timer so you can use multiple abilities in rapid succession. But in ME once you used one ability you have to wait until you can use ANY ability at all. That's the main reason why investing in two active ability in ME is not as good as focusing on one ability unless there's significant incentive (like the warp + throw). And in ME ideally you always want to use your active ability once the recharge is done, so there's not a lot of incentive to go ability1->ability2->ability1->ability2 than ability1->ability1->ability1->ability1. If ME3 works like ME1 or dragon age where each ability has its own timer then i'll certainlly evolve PM, I just go cloak->PM->ED->mouse left.

I use my active abilities ALL THE TIME so even 0.5 seconds matter to me. Cloak->ED-shoot->reload cancel with cloak->ED->Shoot cycle works so well and it guarantees my recharge timer is always running. If you don't care if you can kill a marauder in 0.5 second or in 2 seconds, then it doesn't matter. I found the perfect build for myself and I'll continue to use it.

Modifié par Darkslayer557, 22 avril 2012 - 05:43 .

[Viquey]

Darkslayer557 wrote...

Viquey wrote...

@Darkslayer: With a PM debuff, you might very well kill a ravager in one shot. I do all the time with my GI, but that's with the claymore, not a sniper.

@general: SIs with 60666 make me sadpanda. Infiltrators don't need fitness unless they're specced for melee. D: And even then, at least in the GI's case, PM is still invaluable for the AoE stagger and debuff. On SIs, it's just... such a waste of points. And why? Just so you can play a little more recklessly or something?

My GI rocks 66660 with a Claymore. Sure with smart choke he can still snipe, but he's most effective up in their faces. Once you know how to manage that 250/375 health/shields, it's no more difficult to stay alive than any other class/race. It's just, you can't make a mistake, but mistakes on gold usually kill anything just as surely as it does my little glass cannon/fragile speedster.

Thus I'd never give up the invaluable proxy mine just for fitness.

Spread the PM love, OP! Just don't be mean about it. >.>

Fitness on all my build. The extra shield boost makes you able to take 1 or 2 hits in gold because of that shield gate mechanism. And I don't take a "very well" argument, you either can one shot a ravager or not, there's no guess. It doesn't help if 1-2 mouse left kills 90% of a ravager's health, that's still a two shot. And I know very well that proxy mine can't guarantee one shot a marauder's shield, but ED can. The 20% damage buff doesn't matter in gold with perfect shield gate if proxy mine can't always one shot the shield of a marauder or centurion. 


AOE stagger can also be achieved by 3m radius ED. Oh and it's not just a stagger, it's stun.

I only say "very well could" because I haven't tried it with a sniper rifle lately. 99% certain it worked with my Javvy. Definitely works with my Claymore. Can in fact oneshot brutes, but that's a PITA because it's so hard to get the full pellet spread to land on a non-mega-DR (claw, shoulder...) spot (love landing it when they rear back and beat their chests, though~). Easier with a sniper, so again fairly certain it worked with the Javvy. (And 1-2-MouseLeft-1-2 for the kill still uses fewer actual shots, IE fewer bullets.)

And shield gate applies to even 1 point of shields. Technically my GI can take two hits, it just kills him--the first takes his shields, the second, his health.  Salarians have high enough base shields (and no abilities that halve them, AND a damn near at-will shield restore power) that they, last I checked, can take a little more from the basic troopers even without fitness. It makes a difference, sure, but I just don't think it's a big enough one to sacrifice the absolutely AMAZING, and I'll broker no argument thank you, proximity mine for.

And yes, but PM does significantly more damage AND debuffs. And it's the only thing that staggers in the GI's arsenal, which, altogether, makes it invaluable for melee-specs.

Another point: PM is a better team skill than ED. ED increases your own survivability if used on synthetic/shielded/barriered things, but it will always interrupt biotic combos, so you can't just spam it without annoying your friendly neighborhood biotic, and isn't that great of a tech combo detonator due to low damage and the fact that SI teammates most likely will be spamming ED too. PM sets off (almost? Cryo might be an anomaly...) all tech combos, doesn't interrupt biotic combos, and debuffs so everyone does more damage to the target.

I mean really. Dat debuff. 

[Darkslayer557]

Viquey wrote...

Darkslayer557 wrote...

Viquey wrote...

@Darkslayer: With a PM debuff, you might very well kill a ravager in one shot. I do all the time with my GI, but that's with the claymore, not a sniper.

@general: SIs with 60666 make me sadpanda. Infiltrators don't need fitness unless they're specced for melee. D: And even then, at least in the GI's case, PM is still invaluable for the AoE stagger and debuff. On SIs, it's just... such a waste of points. And why? Just so you can play a little more recklessly or something?

My GI rocks 66660 with a Claymore. Sure with smart choke he can still snipe, but he's most effective up in their faces. Once you know how to manage that 250/375 health/shields, it's no more difficult to stay alive than any other class/race. It's just, you can't make a mistake, but mistakes on gold usually kill anything just as surely as it does my little glass cannon/fragile speedster.

Thus I'd never give up the invaluable proxy mine just for fitness.

Spread the PM love, OP! Just don't be mean about it. >.>

Fitness on all my build. The extra shield boost makes you able to take 1 or 2 hits in gold because of that shield gate mechanism. And I don't take a "very well" argument, you either can one shot a ravager or not, there's no guess. It doesn't help if 1-2 mouse left kills 90% of a ravager's health, that's still a two shot. And I know very well that proxy mine can't guarantee one shot a marauder's shield, but ED can. The 20% damage buff doesn't matter in gold with perfect shield gate if proxy mine can't always one shot the shield of a marauder or centurion. 


AOE stagger can also be achieved by 3m radius ED. Oh and it's not just a stagger, it's stun.

I only say "very well could" because I haven't tried it with a sniper rifle lately. 99% certain it worked with my Javvy. Definitely works with my Claymore. Can in fact oneshot brutes, but that's a PITA because it's so hard to get the full pellet spread to land on a non-mega-DR (claw, shoulder...) spot (love landing it when they rear back and beat their chests, though~). Easier with a sniper, so again fairly certain it worked with the Javvy. (And 1-2-MouseLeft-1-2 for the kill still uses fewer actual shots, IE fewer bullets.)

And shield gate applies to even 1 point of shields. Technically my GI can take two hits, it just kills him--the first takes his shields, the second, his health.  Salarians have high enough base shields (and no abilities that halve them, AND a damn near at-will shield restore power) that they, last I checked, can take a little more from the basic troopers even without fitness. It makes a difference, sure, but I just don't think it's a big enough one to sacrifice the absolutely AMAZING, and I'll broker no argument thank you, proximity mine for.

And yes, but PM does significantly more damage AND debuffs. And it's the only thing that staggers in the GI's arsenal, which, altogether, makes it invaluable for melee-specs.

Another point: PM is a better team skill than ED. ED increases your own survivability if used on synthetic/shielded/barriered things, but it will always interrupt biotic combos, so you can't just spam it without annoying your friendly neighborhood biotic, and isn't that great of a tech combo detonator due to low damage and the fact that SI teammates most likely will be spamming ED too. PM sets off (almost? Cryo might be an anomaly...) all tech combos, doesn't interrupt biotic combos, and debuffs so everyone does more damage to the target.

I mean really. Dat debuff. 

ED doesn't interrupt biotic combos. The biotic just need to be smart enough to use throw a second time to detonate his explosion.
http://social.biowar...7/index/9822648
So don't get mad next time you throw at a warped target and it seemed like nothing happened. In fact a tech burst
was triggered and you can use throw again to detonate your warp.

And extra health does matter. Recall those times you have a silver of health and survived? Imagine what would happen if you didn't take that extra 15% of health you could go down and your teammate who tries to revive you goes down and in turn the whole team goes down. It's just not an active ability so people don't normally pay attention to the usefulness as much to the active abilities.

[Ravennus]

Darkslayer557 wrote...

samb wrote...

@Darkslayer557
I know what you are saying, and I am not contending that ED is a good ability. My point is you can have both. Anything that doesn't go down with cloak-ED sniper shot will go down with cloak-PM sniper shot. You alternate once the shields are down.
It's not one or the other, why squander a perfectly good power is my point.

OK what I'm saying is my widow X can one shot the health of any human sized enemy including phantoms, so the PM isn't needed for me once the shield goes down. sure it's more useful against boss targets but on gold the extra health can let me survive in emergency situations (reviving someone under fire).

My point was you can't really have both because the way recharging works in ME. In dragon age each ability has its own recharge timer so you can use multiple abilities in rapid succession. But in ME once you used one ability you have to wait until you can use ANY ability at all. That's the main reason why investing in two active ability in ME is not as good as focusing on one ability unless there's significant incentive (like the warp + throw). And in ME ideally you always want to use your active ability once the recharge is done, so there's not a lot of incentive to go ability1->ability2->ability1->ability2 than ability1->ability1->ability1->ability1. If ME3 works like ME1 or dragon age where each ability has its own timer then i'll certainlly evolve PM, I just go cloak->PM->ED->mouse left.

It depends actually.... on my Salarian Infiltrator I can cloak, fire ED and then fire PM all within the cloak CD (if my weight is low enough).  Not that I do that, but I'm just proving that cooldowns can be manipulated (especially with cloak).

Versatility is also paramount.  ED will not be the most ideal power in every situation.  Yes, it's great. There is no disputing that.
However, it doesn't do much vs. organic targets who have no shields other than a minor stagger.
You also likely specced for damage over radius, so it'll likely only hit your main target.

Yes, for single target sniper takedowns, especially vs. shielded opponents it's perfect.
However, there are also a lot of situations where it helps to have a power which will do great damage to a 3m area as well as throw a +20% dmg debuff on them (that is shared by the entire team).  Not to mention, you can stagger and slow down an tightly packed group that's approaching.

Also, just because PM shares the global cooldown, doesn't mean you can't toss it at a known chokepoint before you get down to business (like between waves).
If you listen for it going off, you'll get early warning when the enemies are flanking from another direction or it'll one shot those husks that are running up on you while you are scoped in for all the sniper kills.


If you don't want to at least give it a try and consider it a complete waste for your particular playstyle, fine.... but many people have given very valid reasons why PM is useful, especially on an Infiltrator.  We are trying to educate people on a useful ability that most people simply dismiss out of hand or get rediculed for using.  This is wrong.
Just because you don't use it doesn't mean that it's completely pointless and we're all stupid.

[Darkslayer557]

and another reason I don't use PM as much is that even if i shoot at the ground near some enemy it doesn't explode some time. I'd rather use an ability that fires EVERY TIME than investing points in an unreliable ability. That could be just me, though, but enough reason for me not to invest in it.

[PnXMarcin1PL]

Ravennus wrote...

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

proximity mine will never beat skilled sniper in cloak

To be honest... a lot of classes and builds can beat a skilled sniper in cloak on higher difficulties.

Not that I have an issue with having a good one in my team in Gold, but on higher difficulties it's about taking out large groups and crowd control.
A good sniper, as long as they are aware of Shield Gate and plan for it, is definitely a good player to have so long as they focus the really hard targets or annoying targets (Ravagers).... but really, they don't often top the charts in a well built Gold team.  They become more support... great support if played well, but support none the less.

Especially with Widows, Javelins, etc..... even if you are a perfect shot EVERY time, you are either only 1-shotting a single mook every 3ish seconds (which is a waste of your abilties) or helping to knock down the harder targets.

VS. Biotic explosions, tech explosions, and good AoE based classes you will not be getting top score, nor should you.

It's a team game, and there's nothing worse in Gold than a lone wolf sniper who thinks he can flip the bird to his teammates and solo the whole mission by himself.
A single good sniper can still bring a lot to the team, so long as they throw their 'sniper ego' out the window.

I agree with you that lonewolf players or snipers are runining the round. But sometimes it's the only option when entire team dies off or doesnt go to kill VIP, the same for objectives. Well  some people don't know sniper's role is support from a distance. Sometimes you need to adapt and go on the offensive otherwise some random team can go down pretty fast, you know it's true. From my experience I know that proximity mine isnt as useful on infi as it is on turian soldier, at least for me.  With tactical cloak maxed for dmg and sniper damage you can obliterate everything, except phatoms in ccq, unless you know how to quick scope.  Black widow with the reload trick works decently. Reload animation takes 3-4 seconds when you cancel it it can take 1,5 or 2 seconds. Thats better than nothing.
For example I perform way better without proximity mine when I have black widow with cloak and reload trick Headshotting 95% of the time just require practice, panicked shots like omg he escaped need to kill him will never work. Most of the time randoms on gold never teamwork, so few uses tech or biotic explosions.I've seen 2 asari adepts "fight" by spamming warp on atlas, they just wanted the bigger share of points for killing him. They didnt care that the phantom sneaked up from behind and instakilled them :PI believe you're gold regular so I think you know what I mean. 
e.g. Even Salarian Infiltrator at level 8 can end up soloing 10th gold wave against phantoms and survive (that was stressfull anyway). Still it was nice to hear people saying over the mic sorry for trying to kick you.  Just dont get me wrong by thinking that I talk a lot how good I am. I'm the first one to admit that I'm not good at anything because nobody is perfect. I just shared some situations that I've experienced as an example.

[jelf rs]

samb wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Energy drain > Proxmityi Mine

Hunter Mode > Proximity Mine

Yes, proximity mine isn't bad in the slightest if used properly but most people find the other talents much more useful and prefer to max out those. Also, by being the best sniper I AM improving my team, so dumping proxmity mines isn't gimping my team.

That is your opinion, it's wrong but whatever.
Then how about 
Prox mine> fitness?
Being a good debuffer from range and being a good sniper are not mutally exclusive.  Is this what we are teaching people nowadays?

Proximity Mine shares CD with Energy Drain and to some extend the Tactical Cloak(especially when you chose sniper damage over extra power on GI) as well.

Use Proximity Mine = Energy Drain and Cloak on cool down

Choosing Fitness won't hinder any other powers.

Have a good day.

[Ravennus]

Something else I haven't seen anyone mention about the Proximity Mine damage debuff...

That +20% extra damage to the target(s) is multiplicative AFTER all other bonuses to you damage.

What does that mean?
Well, when you are stacking all those +dmg% evolutions in the power screen, they only multiply the BASE damage you are dealing.
So let's say you spec for +25% weapon damage.
Your gun normally shoots for 100 damage before things like armor DR.
Now it shoots for 125 damage, right? Great!

But now add in the 20% from PM. That is actually a 20% bonus on the TOTAL damage of your weapon, INCLUDING bonuses from your evolutions.

So instead of doing 145 damage now, it does 150.
That doesn't sound like much difference when we are talking about a weak weapon, but when doing thousands of damage per shot with the Widow X, Javelin, etc? That's quite a bit!

[Ravennus]

jelf rs wrote...

samb wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Energy drain > Proxmityi Mine

Hunter Mode > Proximity Mine

Yes, proximity mine isn't bad in the slightest if used properly but most people find the other talents much more useful and prefer to max out those. Also, by being the best sniper I AM improving my team, so dumping proxmity mines isn't gimping my team.

That is your opinion, it's wrong but whatever.
Then how about 
Prox mine> fitness?
Being a good debuffer from range and being a good sniper are not mutally exclusive.  Is this what we are teaching people nowadays?

Proximity Mine shares CD with Energy Drain and to some extend the Tactical Cloak(especially when you chose sniper damage over extra power on GI) as well.

Use Proximity Mine = Energy Drain and Cloak on cool down

Choosing Fitness won't hinder any other powers.

Have a good day.

I could say the exact same thing about Energy Drain.  Does that make it useless?

Have a good day! 

[Darkslayer557]

Ravennus wrote...

Darkslayer557 wrote...

samb wrote...

@Darkslayer557
I know what you are saying, and I am not contending that ED is a good ability. My point is you can have both. Anything that doesn't go down with cloak-ED sniper shot will go down with cloak-PM sniper shot. You alternate once the shields are down.
It's not one or the other, why squander a perfectly good power is my point.

OK what I'm saying is my widow X can one shot the health of any human sized enemy including phantoms, so the PM isn't needed for me once the shield goes down. sure it's more useful against boss targets but on gold the extra health can let me survive in emergency situations (reviving someone under fire).

My point was you can't really have both because the way recharging works in ME. In dragon age each ability has its own recharge timer so you can use multiple abilities in rapid succession. But in ME once you used one ability you have to wait until you can use ANY ability at all. That's the main reason why investing in two active ability in ME is not as good as focusing on one ability unless there's significant incentive (like the warp + throw). And in ME ideally you always want to use your active ability once the recharge is done, so there's not a lot of incentive to go ability1->ability2->ability1->ability2 than ability1->ability1->ability1->ability1. If ME3 works like ME1 or dragon age where each ability has its own timer then i'll certainlly evolve PM, I just go cloak->PM->ED->mouse left.

It depends actually.... on my Salarian Infiltrator I can cloak, fire ED and then fire PM all within the cloak CD (if my weight is low enough).  Not that I do that, but I'm just proving that cooldowns can be manipulated (especially with cloak).

Versatility is also paramount.  ED will not be the most ideal power in every situation.  Yes, it's great. There is no disputing that.
However, it doesn't do much vs. organic targets who have no shields other than a minor stagger.
You also likely specced for damage over radius, so it'll likely only hit your main target.

Yes, for single target sniper takedowns, especially vs. shielded opponents it's perfect.
However, there are also a lot of situations where it helps to have a power which will do great damage to a 3m area as well as throw a +20% dmg debuff on them (that is shared by the entire team).  Not to mention, you can stagger and slow down an tightly packed group that's approaching.

Also, just because PM shares the global cooldown, doesn't mean you can't toss it at a known chokepoint before you get down to business (like between waves).
If you listen for it going off, you'll get early warning when the enemies are flanking from another direction or it'll one shot those husks that are running up on you while you are scoped in for all the sniper kills.


If you don't want to at least give it a try and consider it a complete waste for your particular playstyle, fine.... but many people have given very valid reasons why PM is useful, especially on an Infiltrator.  We are trying to educate people on a useful ability that most people simply dismiss out of hand or get rediculed for using.  This is wrong.
Just because you don't use it doesn't mean that it's completely pointless and we're all stupid.

Sorry if I make you guys feel like I'm all egocentric and I talk as if i'm the god of games.

I'm glad we're having this discussion here peacefully as opposed to the battlefield 3 forums. Seriously those people are HORRIBLE.

Anyway I did use it in the beta extensively but I found the best SI build for myself in the beta. Is anything changed for the PM after launch? I remember its ballistic trajectory is hard to predict and it doesn't always explode even if the mine is like 2 feet away from an enemy. It does stagger, yes, but so does ED. Maybe on my next promotion I'll give it a shot:huh:

[Darkslayer557]

Ravennus wrote...

jelf rs wrote...

samb wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Energy drain > Proxmityi Mine

Hunter Mode > Proximity Mine

Yes, proximity mine isn't bad in the slightest if used properly but most people find the other talents much more useful and prefer to max out those. Also, by being the best sniper I AM improving my team, so dumping proxmity mines isn't gimping my team.

That is your opinion, it's wrong but whatever.
Then how about 
Prox mine> fitness?
Being a good debuffer from range and being a good sniper are not mutally exclusive.  Is this what we are teaching people nowadays?

Proximity Mine shares CD with Energy Drain and to some extend the Tactical Cloak(especially when you chose sniper damage over extra power on GI) as well.

Use Proximity Mine = Energy Drain and Cloak on cool down

Choosing Fitness won't hinder any other powers.

Have a good day.

I could say the exact same thing about Energy Drain.  Does that make it useless?

Have a good day! 

You assumed ability1 has the same effectiveness as ability2.
It's obvious that you choose ED spamming over PM spamming, isn't it obvious? It's not a logic fallacy.

Modifié par Darkslayer557, 22 avril 2012 - 06:02 .

[PnXMarcin1PL]

Ravennus wrote...

jelf rs wrote...

samb wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Energy drain > Proxmityi Mine

Hunter Mode > Proximity Mine

Yes, proximity mine isn't bad in the slightest if used properly but most people find the other talents much more useful and prefer to max out those. Also, by being the best sniper I AM improving my team, so dumping proxmity mines isn't gimping my team.

That is your opinion, it's wrong but whatever.
Then how about 
Prox mine> fitness?
Being a good debuffer from range and being a good sniper are not mutally exclusive.  Is this what we are teaching people nowadays?

Proximity Mine shares CD with Energy Drain and to some extend the Tactical Cloak(especially when you chose sniper damage over extra power on GI) as well.

Use Proximity Mine = Energy Drain and Cloak on cool down

Choosing Fitness won't hinder any other powers.

Have a good day.

I could say the exact same thing about Energy Drain.  Does that make it useless?

Have a good day! 

Well it definetly disrupts way more powerful biotic explosions. An another example from my game experience.
I set up properly, warp on atlas im about to use throw  on it and guess what happens. Some nooby guy kept spaming energy drain after warp totally distrupting explosions. He did the same on geth prime, there were 3 of them coming and I'd take them out easily with detonations but nooo he had to spam AoE energy drains totally disrupting the combo.  People should really think what they're doing.

Modifié par PnXMarcin1PL, 22 avril 2012 - 06:05 .

[OniGanon]

Every SI sniper should be taking PM. Every Cloak grants a free ability cast. What do you do against Armor? Cast Energy Drain and do no damage while simultaneously irritating all your biotic teammates?

6/6/6/5/3 or 6/5/6/6/3

Spec PM for radius, defense debuff, damage

I mean really, what else are you doing with those points? Going for max Fitness? On a sniper Infiltrator? What on earth for? You have Cloak and ED already.

Even when using a Shotgun, you could go with 4/6/6/6/4.


Geth Infiltrator is a little more complicated because of their low health and shielding (with Hunter Mode activated), but even then I'm inclined to go with 6/4/6/6/4 or 6/3/6/6/5 just to have something to cast in Cloak (4/5/6/5/6 or 4/6/6/4/6 for shotgunner).

[jelf rs]

Ravennus wrote...

jelf rs wrote...

samb wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Energy drain > Proxmityi Mine

Hunter Mode > Proximity Mine

Yes, proximity mine isn't bad in the slightest if used properly but most people find the other talents much more useful and prefer to max out those. Also, by being the best sniper I AM improving my team, so dumping proxmity mines isn't gimping my team.

That is your opinion, it's wrong but whatever.
Then how about 
Prox mine> fitness?
Being a good debuffer from range and being a good sniper are not mutally exclusive.  Is this what we are teaching people nowadays?

Proximity Mine shares CD with Energy Drain and to some extend the Tactical Cloak(especially when you chose sniper damage over extra power on GI) as well.

Use Proximity Mine = Energy Drain and Cloak on cool down

Choosing Fitness won't hinder any other powers.

Have a good day.

I could say the exact same thing about Energy Drain.  Does that make it useless?

Have a good day! 

What the OP said is that people can choose all three powers instead of only Energy Drain and Cloak. I don't think even the OP would dare to ask people to choose Energy Drain OVER Proximity Mine.

If you think Proximity Mine is better than Energy Drain, then you are definitely free to use it over Energy Drain as we all have our own preferences.

I hope more people can share your point of view though.

[Darkslayer557]

Ravennus wrote...

That +20% extra damage to the target(s) is multiplicative AFTER all other bonuses to you damage.

!

That's not right. In the math foruma thread in the other ME forums (gameplay/mechanics) they said all the percentage bonus are counted from the base. so you you have a 20% bonus from ability 1 and 10% bonus from ability 2 you don't have 1.2+0.12, instead you have 1.2 + 0.1. 
Your calculation was right though, it does apply to your modified weapon damage because your 125% weapon damage is the base damage. But say if you put a proxy mine into an Atlas who just walked into a biotic sphere and also got warped, the percentage doesn't multiply. Each bonus is calculated from the base number.

[Ravennus]

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

Ravennus wrote...

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

proximity mine will never beat skilled sniper in cloak

To be honest... a lot of classes and builds can beat a skilled sniper in cloak on higher difficulties.

Not that I have an issue with having a good one in my team in Gold, but on higher difficulties it's about taking out large groups and crowd control.
A good sniper, as long as they are aware of Shield Gate and plan for it, is definitely a good player to have so long as they focus the really hard targets or annoying targets (Ravagers).... but really, they don't often top the charts in a well built Gold team.  They become more support... great support if played well, but support none the less.

Especially with Widows, Javelins, etc..... even if you are a perfect shot EVERY time, you are either only 1-shotting a single mook every 3ish seconds (which is a waste of your abilties) or helping to knock down the harder targets.

VS. Biotic explosions, tech explosions, and good AoE based classes you will not be getting top score, nor should you.

It's a team game, and there's nothing worse in Gold than a lone wolf sniper who thinks he can flip the bird to his teammates and solo the whole mission by himself.
A single good sniper can still bring a lot to the team, so long as they throw their 'sniper ego' out the window.

I agree with you that lonewolf players or snipers are runining the round. But sometimes it's the only option when entire team dies off or doesnt go to kill VIP, the same for objectives. Well  some people don't know sniper's role is support from a distance. Sometimes you need to adapt and go on the offensive otherwise some random team can go down pretty fast, you know it's true. From my experience I know that proximity mine isnt as useful on infi as it is on turian soldier, at least for me.  With tactical cloak maxed for dmg and sniper damage you can obliterate everything, except phatoms in ccq, unless you know how to quick scope.  Black widow with the reload trick works decently. Reload animation takes 3-4 seconds when you cancel it it can take 1,5 or 2 seconds. Thats better than nothing.
For example I perform way better without proximity mine when I have black widow with cloak and reload trick Headshotting 95% of the time just require practice, panicked shots like omg he escaped need to kill him will never work. Most of the time randoms on gold never teamwork, so few uses tech or biotic explosions.I've seen 2 asari adepts "fight" by spamming warp on atlas, they just wanted the bigger share of points for killing him. They didnt care that the phantom sneaked up from behind and instakilled them :PI believe you're gold regular so I think you know what I mean. 
e.g. Even Salarian Infiltrator at level 8 can end up soloing 10th gold wave against phantoms and survive (that was stressfull anyway). Still it was nice to hear people saying over the mic sorry for trying to kick you.  Just dont get me wrong by thinking that I talk a lot how good I am. I'm the first one to admit that I'm not good at anything because nobody is perfect. I just shared some situations that I've experienced as an example.

Heh, I agree... most PUGs are a nightmare on Gold for the exact reasons your described.
In that situation I have no doubt that a well played SI Sniper infiltrator will shine!  I've done it myself!

But after a while, I found it more frustrating than fun.... and by that time I had built up a substantial friends list of like-minded players and now we streamroll gold matches.  Random/Random too, just to mix things up.
I'd also much rather clear Gold in 20 minutes than 40 minutes (and no, not talking about FBW/Geth, lol)

Not tooting my own horn here.... I'm not the 'best' player in our group by any means, but we all work well together as a team and it goes a long way.  It's something missing from the majority of random Gold matches, and I find them almost to painful to play now.

I'll still do it if no one else is on, if I want a personal challenge.... but most of the time I'll bring my infiltrator (any build.... sniper, shotgun, Geth melee) as I find it contributes the most to a group that isn't used to working well together.

[Darkslayer557]

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

Ravennus wrote...

jelf rs wrote...

samb wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Energy drain > Proxmityi Mine

Hunter Mode > Proximity Mine

Yes, proximity mine isn't bad in the slightest if used properly but most people find the other talents much more useful and prefer to max out those. Also, by being the best sniper I AM improving my team, so dumping proxmity mines isn't gimping my team.

That is your opinion, it's wrong but whatever.
Then how about 
Prox mine> fitness?
Being a good debuffer from range and being a good sniper are not mutally exclusive.  Is this what we are teaching people nowadays?

Proximity Mine shares CD with Energy Drain and to some extend the Tactical Cloak(especially when you chose sniper damage over extra power on GI) as well.

Use Proximity Mine = Energy Drain and Cloak on cool down

Choosing Fitness won't hinder any other powers.

Have a good day.

I could say the exact same thing about Energy Drain.  Does that make it useless?

Have a good day! 

Well it definetly disrupts way more powerful biotic explosions. An another example from my game experience.
I set up properly, warp on atlas im about to use throw  on it and guess what happens. Some nooby guy kept spaming energy drain after warp totally distrupting explosions. He did the same on geth prime, there were 3 of them coming and I'd take them out easily with detonations but nooo he had to spam AoE energy drains totally disrupting the combo.  People should really think what they're doing.

You should really read some threads :

http://social.biowar...7/index/9822648

Just use throw again. You'll have your explosion.

[Ravennus]

Darkslayer557 wrote...

Ravennus wrote...

That +20% extra damage to the target(s) is multiplicative AFTER all other bonuses to you damage.

!

That's not right. In the math foruma thread in the other ME forums (gameplay/mechanics) they said all the percentage bonus are counted from the base. so you you have a 20% bonus from ability 1 and 10% bonus from ability 2 you don't have 1.2+0.12, instead you have 1.2 + 0.1. 
Your calculation was right though, it does apply to your modified weapon damage because your 125% weapon damage is the base damage. But say if you put a proxy mine into an Atlas who just walked into a biotic sphere and also got warped, the percentage doesn't multiply. Each bonus is calculated from the base number.

That's true for all powers that add a % in the character screen, but not for something that's activated independently during the actual game.
Mods work the same way.  For example, the melee shotgun/pistol mod will give x1.25 melee damage AFTER all the other melee modifiers (from fitness, for example).  It'll multiply the final melee damage by 1.25 and not just the base.

I'm 99% certain proximity mines work the same way.

[Darkslayer557]

OniGanon wrote...

Every SI sniper should be taking PM. Every Cloak grants a free ability cast. What do you do against Armor? Cast Energy Drain and do no damage while simultaneously irritating all your biotic teammates?

6/6/6/5/3 or 6/5/6/6/3

Spec PM for radius, defense debuff, damage

I mean really, what else are you doing with those points? Going for max Fitness? On a sniper Infiltrator? What on earth for? You have Cloak and ED already.

Even when using a Shotgun, you could go with 4/6/6/6/4.


Geth Infiltrator is a little more complicated because of their low health and shielding (with Hunter Mode activated), but even then I'm inclined to go with 6/4/6/6/4 or 6/3/6/6/5 just to have something to cast in Cloak (4/5/6/5/6 or 4/6/6/4/6 for shotgunner).

Evidence and reasons? I do not and I top 90% of my charts. 

[Ravennus]

Darkslayer557 wrote...

Ravennus wrote...

jelf rs wrote...

samb wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Energy drain > Proxmityi Mine

Hunter Mode > Proximity Mine

Yes, proximity mine isn't bad in the slightest if used properly but most people find the other talents much more useful and prefer to max out those. Also, by being the best sniper I AM improving my team, so dumping proxmity mines isn't gimping my team.

That is your opinion, it's wrong but whatever.
Then how about 
Prox mine> fitness?
Being a good debuffer from range and being a good sniper are not mutally exclusive.  Is this what we are teaching people nowadays?

Proximity Mine shares CD with Energy Drain and to some extend the Tactical Cloak(especially when you chose sniper damage over extra power on GI) as well.

Use Proximity Mine = Energy Drain and Cloak on cool down

Choosing Fitness won't hinder any other powers.

Have a good day.

I could say the exact same thing about Energy Drain.  Does that make it useless?

Have a good day! 

You assumed ability1 has the same effectiveness as ability2.
It's obvious that you choose ED spamming over PM spamming, isn't it obvious? It's not a logic fallacy.

I know... and what some of us are saying is that spamming 1 ability all the time isn't ideal.
Sometimes PM will be better, depending on the circumstances.

[Darkslayer557]

Ravennus wrote...

Darkslayer557 wrote...

Ravennus wrote...

That +20% extra damage to the target(s) is multiplicative AFTER all other bonuses to you damage.

!

That's not right. In the math foruma thread in the other ME forums (gameplay/mechanics) they said all the percentage bonus are counted from the base. so you you have a 20% bonus from ability 1 and 10% bonus from ability 2 you don't have 1.2+0.12, instead you have 1.2 + 0.1. 
Your calculation was right though, it does apply to your modified weapon damage because your 125% weapon damage is the base damage. But say if you put a proxy mine into an Atlas who just walked into a biotic sphere and also got warped, the percentage doesn't multiply. Each bonus is calculated from the base number.

That's true for all powers that add a % in the character screen, but not for something that's activated independently during the actual game.
Mods work the same way.  For example, the melee shotgun/pistol mod will give x1.25 melee damage AFTER all the other melee modifiers (from fitness, for example).  It'll multiply the final melee damage by 1.25 and not just the base.

I'm 99% certain proximity mines work the same way.

yes that's what I'm saying, weapon mod bonus counts in the base damage.
If you have barrel V then your base damage that's used in damage calculation is your post-buffed damage.

[Dr Derp]

Grimy Bunyip wrote...

energy drain is good enough for every situation.

I use proxy mine on my geth infiltrator though