156 réponses à ce sujet

[Seneva]

I use PM on almost every CD on any mob I target. ED is awesome for shield ripping and PM is wonderfull against armoured targets like Atlas, Ravenger etc. If i'm sniping unshielded/unarmoured I still toss a PM. It's a natural move for me now.

[Topographer]

It comes down to Prox mine vs fitness. And though fitness is a noticeable help at times, cloaking and energy drain already make you the easiest character to stay alive as. Prox mine on every boss you find and take that s*** down hard I say.

The best defense is to kill them fast.

[Sakabaka]

I found proximity mines to be at best, situationally useful.

They're great for when there's a huge clump of enemies, and when you just need it as a debuff for say, a group that is putting out way more damage than you are.

Unfortunately, that wasn't enough to warrant spec'ing it for me. Proximity mines are pretty much useless for anything on higher elevation than you, and requires that you direct your aim away from heads to land it reliably. In other words, it was kind of distracting to try and land the proximity mine, when on the other hand ED is mindless to use and Fitness always applies. Sometimes units would also jump in front of the intended target.

[molecularman]

Well, salarians can do fine without the mine, it's only really useful on the big bosses and early wave mobs for them. I just recently specced mine away for fitness because I feel that helps more often with my aggressive playstyle. On geth infiltrators, however, mine is awesome.

[molecularman]

To add, proxy only is good against the ARMOR of the big bosses. Granting you maybe 1 shot less and a slight buff for the team against nothing but the armor of big guys isn't worth losing fitness for me though it can be helpful

[PraetorianVIII]

scrappydoo wrote...

I use proxi mines all the time. People who say they are useless or no good on gold don't know how to use them. They are amazing.

How many other powers do 800+ points of damage every 3 seconds (and stagger the enemy too)? Well?

Typical.

If someone doesn't like a power or weapon, it's INSTANTLY assumesd they don't know how to use it.

I don't like Tech Armor on my Sentinels because it slows down my recharge time.  You gonna tell me I don;t know "how to use it" as well?  What about the N7 Hurricane (which is a POS SMG)?  I don't like that weapon either, I guess that means I don't know how to use it.

Get off your high horse pal.

[astheoceansblue]

Ji

Darkslayer557 wrote...

OniGanon wrote...

Every SI sniper should be taking PM. Every Cloak grants a free ability cast. What do you do against Armor? Cast Energy Drain and do no damage while simultaneously irritating all your biotic teammates?

6/6/6/5/3 or 6/5/6/6/3

Spec PM for radius, defense debuff, damage

I mean really, what else are you doing with those points? Going for max Fitness? On a sniper Infiltrator? What on earth for? You have Cloak and ED already.

Even when using a Shotgun, you could go with 4/6/6/6/4.


Geth Infiltrator is a little more complicated because of their low health and shielding (with Hunter Mode activated), but even then I'm inclined to go with 6/4/6/6/4 or 6/3/6/6/5 just to have something to cast in Cloak (4/5/6/5/6 or 4/6/6/4/6 for shotgunner).

Evidence and reasons? I do not and I top 90% of my charts. 

You topping 90% of your charts doesn't mean as much here as you think it does. For a start, only a relatively small percentage of players actively playing me3 use forums to discuss it. Then factor in those who discuss/care about fine tuning builds.

We're a minority, and I bet most of us top the charts especially when playing SI.

That alone is no marker for what works best.

I prefer b.widow. It let's me kill three squishies in the time it takes a widow user to kill 1. Sure a widow user can take down boss mobs faster, but that's where p.mine brings me up to speed.

So things drop quick enough anyway, and a good SI will be able to manage his health and shields without fitness. Shield gate, Cloak, the infinite spec ops pack that's Energy Drain, SI is the squishiest class i use and it drops the least. And I run out to res team mates in the thick of things, and easily match any SI I meet in terms of score so i'm not wastimg time managing regen. And I've tried both ways and icve found this most efficient.

It's all about playstyle and whether you prefer widow b.widow I guess. There's no right or wrong in terms of what build is best, but the truth is that an SI with no health can be just as capable as one with full fitness, and that p.mine is one of the best powers in the game.

Modifié par astheoceansblue, 22 avril 2012 - 10:19 .

[The Final Warrior]

astheoceansblue wrote...

Ji

Darkslayer557 wrote...

OniGanon wrote...

Every SI sniper should be taking PM. Every Cloak grants a free ability cast. What do you do against Armor? Cast Energy Drain and do no damage while simultaneously irritating all your biotic teammates?

6/6/6/5/3 or 6/5/6/6/3

Spec PM for radius, defense debuff, damage

I mean really, what else are you doing with those points? Going for max Fitness? On a sniper Infiltrator? What on earth for? You have Cloak and ED already.

Even when using a Shotgun, you could go with 4/6/6/6/4.


Geth Infiltrator is a little more complicated because of their low health and shielding (with Hunter Mode activated), but even then I'm inclined to go with 6/4/6/6/4 or 6/3/6/6/5 just to have something to cast in Cloak (4/5/6/5/6 or 4/6/6/4/6 for shotgunner).

Evidence and reasons? I do not and I top 90% of my charts. 

You topping 90% of your charts doesn't mean as much here as you think it does.

This. In fact, "90%" is a bit low. I've topped the chart of every game I've played bar three, and my SI has never gone into the Proxy Mine tree.

-- Griffinhart

[Clearly Balkan]

Proximity Mine or Energy Drain ?

[Arkley]

Clearly Balkan wrote...

Proximity Mine or Energy Drain ?

The question is Proximity Mine or Fitness, not ED.
The Salarian is already one of the most survivable classes in the game. Between cloak and ED's instant shield restoration, not to mention its potential DR buff. The Geth is going to have paper for shields with Hunter Vision active nomatter what, and Hunter Vision lets you see enemies through walls, which is a huge advantage. They, also, can turn invisible.

So, which do you prefer? An extra 65% shields? Or an accurate straight-flying ability that deals around 1k damage with a 2m radius, can be laid as a trap, can be fired every cloak cycle, staggers enemies, detonates Tech Bursts, and makes every enemy caught in its blast take 20% extra damage?

PraetorianVIII wrote...
Typical.

If someone doesn't like a power or weapon, it's INSTANTLY assumesd they don't know how to use it.

I
don't like Tech Armor on my Sentinels because it slows down my recharge
time.  You gonna tell me I don;t know "how to use it" as well?  What
about the N7 Hurricane (which is a POS SMG)?  I don't like that weapon
either, I guess that means I don't know how to use it.

Get off your high horse pal.

Don't be so stupid. This isn't like saying every weapon or power that performs poorly is the result of poor use. The situation is not comparable to telling someone they don't know how to use the Hurricane if they can't get good results from it. The difference here is that the Hurricane demonstrably and statistically sucks, while Proxi Mine is one of the most powerful, useful and multi-functional powers in the game.

TL;DR it's not like claiming you don't like the Hurricane, it's claiming you don't like the Black Widow. Which is fine, but it doesn't make the BW a bad weapon, it makes you a poor sniper.

Modifié par Arkley, 22 avril 2012 - 11:04 .

[tonnactus]

Grimy Bunyip wrote...


or they just suck at aiming proxy mine.

Thats it. I always seem to miss with them and sometimes enemies just dodge them(radious to small).
Thats happened when i try them out with turian soldier.

[scrappydoo]

PraetorianVIII wrote...

Typical.

If someone doesn't like a power or weapon, it's INSTANTLY assumesd they don't know how to use it.

I don't like Tech Armor on my Sentinels because it slows down my recharge time.  You gonna tell me I don;t know "how to use it" as well?  What about the N7 Hurricane (which is a POS SMG)?  I don't like that weapon either, I guess that means I don't know how to use it.

Get off your high horse pal.

You miss my point. There is a difference between having no use for something and it being useless. Proximity Mine is not useless. And, I agree, personal preference is the only important factor here.

Now stop being so angry.

[OniGanon]

I used to have a lot of trouble hitting anything with PM... then I took the Radius evo at rank 4 instead of damage. The difference was night and day.

Darkslayer557 wrote...

Recall those situations where you had a silver of health and survived? Imagine what would happen if you didn't take the extra health. You could have very well died and the person who tries to save you gets mowed down and in turn the whole team die. People don't notice the usefulness of fitness because it's not an active ability. Fitness is not receiving enough credit because when people takes down something using a gun they think "hey, this gun is great!" when people take down something using an active power they think "wow, this ability rocks!" but when people survives under enemy fire they won't go "holy crap fitness is boss". But that doesn't mean fitness is useless.

If I survived with only a sliver of health, it was the final health gate mechanic that saved me, and Fitness had nothing to do with it.

But where did I say Fitness was useless? Fitness is fantastic and I consider high points in it a necessity... on every class except the Infiltrator. The Infiltrator has Cloak, and can get away with much less shielding as a result.

A sniper-style Infiltrator should not be taking a lot of damage. Proximity Mine gives an SI something to cast vs Armor, where Energy Drain is pointless at best and detrimental to your team at worst. This is more valuable than an extra few hundred shields on a class that can already avoid most fire by simply being invisible.

Modifié par OniGanon, 22 avril 2012 - 12:20 .

[astheoceansblue]

If you don't spec fitness, then you learn to manage the health and shields you have. Anyone using the "last sliver of health" argument doesn't understand that shield gate and health management works either way.

[Lajkos]

ppl hate them becaus they don't know how to use them.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

I recently discovered the raep that is Charge GPS, cloak, proxy mine, shoot, cloaked geth melee.

[OniGanon]

PraetorianVIII wrote...

Typical.

If someone doesn't like a power or weapon, it's INSTANTLY assumesd they don't know how to use it.

There is a world of difference between 'does not like' and 'cannot see the value in.'

I do not like the Kishock.

Doesn't mean I can't see the value in a rifle that can oneshot a Brute on Gold.

Modifié par OniGanon, 22 avril 2012 - 12:37 .

[NIC6598]

On my Salarian Infil VS Tight crowds or Prime: Cloak-Drain-Shoot Shoot Shoot (N7 Valiant), Reload: Cloak MINE Shoot Shoot Shoot: everything is dead around, Prime is weak. Mine and shoot again and hes bye bye.. Mines are awesome. Increase damage taken, by themselves do alot of damage.

[veramis]

When some assault troopers or husks or other annoying enemies get close to you, are you going to take them out one by one with the sniper rifle? People who use proximity mine right can kill a lot more enemies than people just relying on energy drain and sniping simply because sniper rifles take time to reload, and energy drain doesn't do much damage against organic enemies with health.

[BlackAlpha]

On the Geth Infiltrator, proxy mines is a must. Especially if you wield a Claymore. It will give you another attack during a cloak cycle, and it will make it much easier to kill the large enemies because proxy mines does damage and gives you a weapon damage bonus. On a Claymore wielding Geth Infiltrator, you don't really need health or shields. If you get shot a lot, then you are doing it wrong. So going proxy mines makes more sense, anyway.

Modifié par BlackAlpha, 22 avril 2012 - 01:02 .

[arisian]

Ravennus wrote...

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

proximity mine will never beat skilled sniper in cloak

To be honest... a lot of classes and builds can beat a skilled sniper in cloak on higher difficulties.

Not that I have an issue with having a good one in my team in Gold, but on higher difficulties it's about taking out large groups and crowd control.
A good sniper, as long as they are aware of Shield Gate and plan for it, is definitely a good player to have so long as they focus the really hard targets or annoying targets (Ravagers).... but really, they don't often top the charts in a well built Gold team.  They become more support... great support if played well, but support none the less.

Especially with Widows, Javelins, etc..... even if you are a perfect shot EVERY time, you are either only 1-shotting a single mook every 3ish seconds (which is a waste of your abilties) or helping to knock down the harder targets.

VS. Biotic explosions, tech explosions, and good AoE based classes you will not be getting top score, nor should you.

It's a team game, and there's nothing worse in Gold than a lone wolf sniper who thinks he can flip the bird to his teammates and solo the whole mission by himself.
A single good sniper can still bring a lot to the team, so long as they throw their 'sniper ego' out the window.

Personally, I play a 6/6/6/6/0 SI on gold, and find that my final score is a good way to tell how good my team was; if I'm on the top by a large margin (as is not uncommon, particularly using the Valiant), it's not a sign that I'm super l337.  It's a sign that the other players aren't using their classes to the best advantage.

I must say, I really don't understand the whole "ED vs ProxMine" thing; I use them both.  Against a centurion or maurauder, it would be silly not to use ED.  Against a ravager or a brute, it would be equally silly not to use PM.  Against Primes, Banshees, Atlases, it's situational, but once shields are gone, PM always lets you pull them down faster than ED will.

In short: both powers are awsome.  Which one is "better" is entirely situational.

[AcadiaPaul]

My SI w/ the Black Widow and zero points in proximity mine finishes first often enough that I see no reason to use proximity mine.

[Highlord Heian]

Prox mine is unreliable, can stick to nearby surfaces, and can sometimes just not trigger when you need it to. It's a good ability, but getting it where you want it is a pain because the pathing for it is so flighty.

[Grimy Bunyip]

AcadiaPaul wrote...

My SI w/ the Black Widow and zero points in proximity mine finishes first often enough that I see no reason to use proximity mine.

That's because SI is one of the best classes.
PM still improves on it though.
You should try it out.

Highlord Heian wrote...

Prox mine is unreliable, can stick
to nearby surfaces, and can sometimes just not trigger when you need it
to. It's a good ability, but getting it where you want it is a pain
because the pathing for it is so flighty.

never had that issue, did you try the radius upgrade at rank 4?

[Oodle12]

Use Salarian Infiltrator against Geth
Use Geth Infiltrator versus Cerberus/Reaper

This way energy drain becomes the obvious choice for SI. Geth infiltrators need the mine though

Modifié par Oodle12, 22 avril 2012 - 03:35 .