317 réponses à ce sujet

[Faunwea]

Doesn't bother me. None of it is real anyway. High heels are overrated though.

[humes spork]

Verly wrote...

I was far more annoyed as a female gamer with the Miranda butt shots then anything to do with Edi.

In ME3 I took it more as an in-joke than covert attempt at fanservice or titillation for the male crowd. I mean, people did take the less-than-a-handful (heh heh) of times it happened in ME2 and beat that dead horse into subatomic particles.

Modifié par humes spork, 22 avril 2012 - 11:40 .

[lillitheris]

maia0407 wrote...

Several of you have made the point that many of the men are sexualized as well. While I somewhat agree, I have to point out that men are not sexualized to the same degree as women. Yes, men are given buff bodies. Women are given fit bodies as well. I don't have an issue with fit bodies as the way the women's fit bodies were portrayed was healthy. By that I mean, I didn't see super skinny women being portrayed as the ideal. I saw fit women with normal curves. Granted, the men's bodies were very buff and I think this can lead to an unhealthy ideal for men that can't achieve that type of body naturally. I would like to see more variety in fit body types.

But, most of the outfits on the men did not go out of the way to emphasize the men's bodies with the notable exception of Jacob and, I guess, Vega. Jacob's outfit made me laugh and I had a hard time taking him seriously with those thigh high boots and a catsuit.Hmmmm, I wonder if his outfit played a part in him being the least popular character. Vega's t-shirt while tight wasn't as egregious as the women's low-cut, wedgie inducing, ****** showing, high-heeled monstrosities. Sure, I would support a looser t-shirt as spray painted on t-shirt was silly but just didn't reach the level of ridiculousness as some of the women's outfits. Also, the forced camera angles that focuses on the men's sexuality were not as prevalent as the angles for women.

Loved your take on the issue, but I have to take a little exception: must this be a competition for which side has it worse? Can't we agree that all idealization/sexualization either is or isn't bad? Historically, of course, the men have had it easier in many ways, and the patriarchy is still evident in many cases, but…

I'm sure guys feel equally bad about comparing to the male bodies in the game. Or the absence of shorter men. Or maybe they don't but what do I know? Either way, from what I've seen, those kinds of muscles take a lot more than “keeping fit” or going to the gym twice a week. So I don't think it serves our cause to belittle that at all – though I'm sure that wasn't your intent.

[maia0407]

Reorte wrote...

I mostly agree with you but I'm just going to quibble on a ocuple of points...

maia0407 wrote...

The other problem with the hyper sexualization is that it makes it harder to take these women seriously.

Usually true. Samara managed to rise above it (and is about the only asari who has any gravitas about her).

. When Edi and Legion were discussing her body and she explained that she was an infiltration unit, I thought, "Oh, there's BW's excuse to sexualize women just like Miranda and Jack."

Jack's way of dressing (or not) fitted her character IMO.

While Samara managed to maintain an air of seriousness due to her personality, I was constantly jarred by the contrast of her outfit. For me, it took something away from her. I think she could have been sexy and serious with an outfit that didn't look so silly.

Regarding Jack, her outfit did fit her character. No quibble there. My point was that several of the characters were written with built in excuses for sexualizing so many of them. They did not have to be written this way. That's my problem.

[Verly]

humes spork wrote...

Verly wrote...

I was far more annoyed as a female gamer with the Miranda butt shots then anything to do with Edi.

In ME3 I took it more as an in-joke than covert attempt at fanservice or titillation for the male crowd. I mean, people did take the less-than-a-handful (heh heh) of times it happened in ME2 and beat that dead horse into subatomic particles.

Oh, i totally agree, but all it did was make *me* roll my eyes.   I tried to like Miranda as a character in both games, but the butt shots and the skintight outfit made it hard for me to take her seriously. I'm glad I bought the DLCs that gave her an amored outfit (as well as giving Jack a cool outfit as well) . Once she was in (to me) a decent outfit I was finely able to get to know her as a character and began to like her better. (I still can't claim she's very far up my list of fave me2 squadmates)

[DocJill]

EDI's body didn't bother me (except for the camel-toe).  The sexy robot body thing is more of a joke. What did bother me was Ashley's "makeover."  I now find her less attractive.  The ridiculous hair, lip gloss, and skirt outfit. 

And I also do not like the sexification that began with Miranda's ass in ME2.  In ME2 everyone got bigger ****** and more risque outfits, and ME3 just kicked it up a notch further.  The thing I loved most about ME1 was it's aesthetic.  The bright but grainy picture, the smooth lines of the armor, helmets, and the environments. The utopian view of the future.  ME2 was a complete opposite.  Clunky and grimy environments, characters without armor, a screen so dark I had to adjust my TV settings.  

Suprisingly Liara is one of the only female characters left unscathed by the sexification.  Besides getting breast implants and a lip job, she at least still looks tasteful.  And thankfully Tali is protected by her envirosuit from whatever machinations the "art" department might devise. 

Modifié par DocJill, 22 avril 2012 - 11:56 .

[maia0407]

lillitheris wrote...

Loved your take on the issue, but I have to take a little exception: must this be a competition for which side has it worse? Can't we agree that all idealization/sexualization either is or isn't bad? Historically, of course, the men have had it easier in many ways, and the patriarchy is still evident in many cases, but…

I'm sure guys feel equally bad about comparing to the male bodies in the game. Or the absence of shorter men. Or maybe they don't but what do I know? Either way, from what I've seen, those kinds of muscles take a lot more than “keeping fit” or going to the gym twice a week. So I don't think it serves our cause to belittle that at all – though I'm sure that wasn't your intent.

I get what you are saying and I go back and forth on the issue of whether the discrepancy of the degree of treatment between men and women matters. While I certainly agree that the promotion of unrealistic and/or unhealthy body types is not good for both men and women and I support more variety, I keep falling on the side of degree does matter. Pointing out the discrepancy in the treatment does not, in my mind, belittle the men and that is not my intent. Those issues are there but the scale of the problem for women is just so much more glaring. That sends a message whether intentional or not. And, that message is that it's okay to devalue women more so than men.

At any rate, thanks for bringing that up. It has been weighing on my mind.

[humes spork]

Verly wrote...

Oh, i totally agree, but all it did was make *me* roll my eyes.

It was very facepalm-worthy in ME2. Even worse when you had Kasumi installed and a femshep wearing the cocktail dress, since on one side of the screen you had Miranda's ass and on the other femshep sitting down with her knees so far apart you could stick strobe lights on 'em and guide in a Cessna on final approach. Of course, the latter part of that was less blatant fanservice than the unintentional(ly hilarious) consequence of an ill-conceived clothing option.

I'm a guy and even I was more than a little embarassed by that one. in ME3 at least they take the time to make it blatant, overt and repetitious enough to cross from "poor, covert attempt at fanservice" and straight into lampshading territory.

[Agugaboo]

EDI:Shepard, the crew sometimes registers discomfort in the presence of this body. Is it because they are afraid I will become their overlord?
Shepard: Er, well...
EDI: Shepard, you aren't considering this as  a possibility are you?
[Paragon]Shephard: No, EDI it may be because you're essentially naked.
EDI: But Shepard, this body's external surface is a shell that merely imitates human physiognomy, it does not perform any biological function and is no different from tight fitting clothing, Is my body unappealing?
[Paragon]Shepard: No, EDI, the opposite. Tight fitting clothing objectifies the body and the person wearing them, and the crew avoids looking at you out of respect.
EDI: Because they do not wish to participate in my objectification?
Shepard: Exactly.
EDI: But Allers...
[Paragon Interrupt]Shepard: Allers is in the business of self objectification.
EDI: But Jack...
[Renegade Interrupt]Shepard: (Laugh) Anyone who messes with Jack is in for trouble.
EDI: Very well, from now on I shall smack down anyone who dares to look at me with lust.
Joker: [roll eyes] Or maybe we can go shopping with Miranda the next time we are on the Citadel.
Shepard: Uh, or maybe Tali and Chakwas. Miranda's kind of indisposed at the moment.
Joker: [grumbles]

[shrimprahmen]

jury is still out for me...i wanted her to have one..i had imagined something like geth..or that thing on starcraft 2...with all the wires and stuff. being a guy....yeah..i like EDIs body....just wish it was a bit more tone down. high heels kinda bother me.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Miranda: the bionic butt. and the gratuitous butt shots. and the minimum D-cup. Well she was designed by a man. And her outfits.

Eva/EDI: this just gets plain weird. Designed as an infiltration unit one would probably not want it to stand out as much as this. But apparently distraction works in the ME universe. It even worked on Ashley -- "Stop right there" when Dr. Eva was erasing the memory. I think Shepard would have put a few bullets in it. Uh, oh. Messed up the processing unit? No crucible. Didn't seem to matter since Shepard killed it with a few head shots anyway.

The Joker thing was weird. I called this Joker's blow up doll, and discouraged the whole thing.

High heels on females in games... right... we're going to run through muddy terrain with those things.

-----

[Esoretal]

I'm a woman and I thought EDI's new body was hilarious. I mean, Doctor Eva was clearly meant to have overt sexual appeal (for infiltration purposes!), so yes, EDI is hypersexualized on purpose.

They totally lampshaded it several times, too. Legion's comments on its top-heaviness, for example.

[Dendio1]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Miranda: the bionic butt. and the gratuitous butt shots. and the minimum D-cup. Well she was designed by a man. And her outfits.

Eva/EDI: this just gets plain weird. Designed as an infiltration unit one would probably not want it to stand out as much as this. But apparently distraction works in the ME universe. It even worked on Ashley -- "Stop right there" when Dr. Eva was erasing the memory. I think Shepard would have put a few bullets in it. Uh, oh. Messed up the processing unit? No crucible. Didn't seem to matter since Shepard killed it with a few head shots anyway.

The Joker thing was weird. I called this Joker's blow up doll, and discouraged the whole thing.

High heels on females in games... right... we're going to run through muddy terrain with those things.

-----

Females are made for the male audiance. Males are made for the female audience. Everybody wins

Modifié par Dendio1, 23 avril 2012 - 12:59 .

[Agugaboo]

I wonder, has some one gibbed it so Shepard walks around naked all the time? Cause that would be lolz.

[txmn1016]

I did like the body, I did not like the weird ******.

[veramis]

I'm male and I was very disappointed they tried to sexualize EDI so much. The body should've had minimal gender features, voice should've remained as it was in ME2, not have all that emotional junk like when she talks with Javik, or have human-like crap like "Thank you for your support, Shepard" when getting a peptalk about getting into a romance with Jeff. It's SOFTWARE for goodness sake, EDI ought to be pointing out how unnecessary such an idea is or whatever, instead she goes on and on and on. The purpose of EDI in ME3 was just to give boys going through puberty stupid ideas, it's offensive to both men and women. It does have artistic integrity though.

[Russalka]

I would just be happy with a few male drell or human dancers twirling around the clubs.

[ADLegend21]

Rane7685 wrote...

 This post is mainly addressed to female gamers but guys can chime in too obviously. Im curious female gamers  are usually done a serious injustice with respect to the female characters in games. They tend to be hyper sexualised (both in appearance and personality) and I can understand why that would be somewhat alienating.

As humans we all enjoy seeing pretty things and this does go both ways (most male protagonists are attractiive too just look at Sheploo) but the attitude towards women seems especially bad with exceptionally suggestive shots/clothing and personalities to match.

Occasionally (and I mean very occasionally) this does actually fit the character but I can only name three instances where I have actually believed the hypersexualisation added to the narrative (catwoman in Batman AC, DA2 Isabella and Bayonetta (in parts where its clearly satire and not overly gratuitous)).

The thing is in ME2 I always wanted EDI to get a body and was excited when she got one. When I saw her body I really really liked it too (except for the high heels (seriously how can you do combat in those)). Now I understand that her body conforms to the hypersexualisation I have jut discussed but I also recognise people like pretty things (movie stars) and it does go both ways. What was a relief was that her personality didnt change to reflect the stale and frankly misogynistic take on women that seems endemic in gaming

I think what Im trying to ask is did you like EDI getting a body? If yes did you find  the body hypersexualised (it is but I mean in a way that is alienating) and finally am I right in saying that the problem is with hypersexualised personalities as opposed to their appearance/suggestive camera angles (zooming in on breasts etc which they fortunately didnt do  with EDI (although they still did this with Miranda))

Also for this argument can we pretend that cameltoe thing never happened. Id like you to answer this as if that wasnt included if at all possible

EDIT: The high heels thing seems to be a miscommunication on my part I didnt mean EDI herself, its just I see a lot of women in combat roles in games wearing high heels and I find it a bit bizarre. Also when you answer if you dont mind disclosing it could you iidentify your gender just so I get a bit of perspective thanks

THe hyper sexualization goes both ways and I'm glad oyu touched on it a little bit. in Me2 there were just as many shots of Jacob's ass when talking to Shepard as there was for Miranda but no one talked about it. She's a vanguard type combatant but he's in a skin tight suit that shows off his. Thane was made just to romance Femshep the entire drell species was devoted to being atttractive for female just like Asari were made to be attractive for men. Vega was introduced and he's muscle's personified and his shirt is thing so his muscles can show through just like EDI took outfits tips from Miranda. Even the VS was sexualized. Ashley let her hair down and Kaidan got more muscles. It seems that male sexualization is more acceptable because all men seem want to have muscles and cool facial hair while it seems that women all don't want to have D cups and an hourglass figure? I mean eve politicians like Udina have nice chiseled arms when they work behind desks and that's just...what?

[Missy_MI]

I'm a woman and I thought EDI looked fine, she wasn't too over-the-top. I eye roll much more that the strip clubs of the future feature only short-haired blue-painted women. Oh sorry, I mean asari, the totally non-lesbian mono-gendered species that all other species find irresistibly attractive.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Sleepdribble wrote...

Geomon19 wrote...

sasasasue wrote...
Though I didn't play with Ashley in ME3, I didn't like her redesign. In ME1 she looked like a normal person, (as did Kaidan). No fancy make up, nothing crazy, just an natural looking girl. However, when we got to ME3, this completely changed.

(Just taken from google.)

Looks the same to me (besides the hair of course).

Ugg. Then you need to pay more attention the the pictures you just posted, my friend. Blind Freddy can see the over-sexualisation of Ashley.

For starters, her eyes appear wider in ME3 (compare the space around the iris) which indicates youth/naivety/innocence and often triggers a protective instinct in males. Her skin has changed in tone from a pale gold colour indicative of an exotic and interesting heritage, to a blander, typically 'white' skin tone which is more mainstream and far less challenging to Bioware's perceived target audience. She wears heavier 'vanity' makeup, which signals her desire to appeal to people on a physical level. And her hair has gone from practical and earthy, to something reminiscent of a night out on the town, or an intimate night in.

Ashley is practically slapping male gamers in the face with her genitals. (OK, that was a little extreme, but I'm leaving it here anyway because it makes me sound crazy self-righteous and this is the BSN, right?)

Ashley has gone from: 'I fiercely protect my family, friends and beliefs' in ME1 and ME2,  to: 'I need help getting up from the floor because, silly me, I got drunk and isn't it hilariously adorable' in ME3.

That's what I reckon.

I reckon that's a good analysis. I would have just gone with "tarted up".

Haven't we concluded that EDI's hoof is just laziness? Who knows if they psent time not reusing Miranda we may have gotten only two coloured endings. There are bigger fish to fry, like what Missy pointed out. Oh and why Miranda's suit is vacuum sealed in the first place.

[Esoretal]

sasasasue wrote...
Though I didn't play with Ashley in ME3, I didn't like her redesign. In ME1 she looked like a normal person, (as did Kaidan). No fancy make up, nothing crazy, just an natural looking girl. However, when we got to ME3, this completely changed.

(Just taken from google.)

What the hell did they do to her eyes/eyebrows? I'm hoping she's just in the middle of an angryface espression in the second photo. I don't have Ashley in my playthrough.

[humes spork]

Dendio1 wrote...

Females are made for the male audiance. Males are made for the female audience. Everybody wins

Damn, manshep's got him some tittays. I bet those things are bigger than femshep's.

[Agugaboo]

[nerd]You know what would have been awesome would have been a conversation between EDI and Eve in the med bay with Mordin and Wrex in the background discussing modesty, objectification and gender equality. Especially since Eve is the opposite of EDI, nearly in a burqa, worldly, and potentially a powerful figure in the future of Tuchankan politics [/nerd]

Modifié par Agugaboo, 23 avril 2012 - 04:08 .

[Beeno4Life]

The only part that pissed me off was that god damn cameltoe...