317 réponses à ce sujet

[Merchant2006]

Why does EDI have a fat visible cameltoe

[AshirahTSparkle]

maia0407 wrote...

As a female gamer, yes, I am bothered by the over-sexualization of women in the ME universe. Before I get into the reasons, I just want to point out that I think the term misogyny is being used too loosely here as I don't see any evidence of hatred for women in the games. I see sexism which is bad enough but I don't think it reaches the level of misogyny.

I can't really discuss EDI without discussing the issues that I have with several of the other female characters including Miranda, Samara, Jack and Liara. I can't speak to Ashley as I haven't met her character. I'm a sex positive person and appreciate attractive people just as much as male gamers. The issue I have is when women's sexual attributes are emphasized to the point that the female characters are obviously being objectified. These women often have strong and interesting personalities. I don't dislike any of them. However, their sexualization in the game takes my mind off these women as people and I'm forced to take notice of their over enhanced attributes.

Often, I found it difficult to follow conversations as I was being forced to stare at Miranda's ass and wonder how in the hell she could find an outfit tight enough to hug her crack all the way up. Did she have it specially made to fit her butt that way? I wondered how thin the material had to be to show her belly-button and found her ****** distracting as well. I understand that Miranda was made to fit an ideal but was it really necessary to emphasize that ideal even further with that outfit? Would male gamers be disappointed to see her in something that didn't look like it was painted on? During combat, wouldn't it be more practical to ditch the catsuit and heels for armor and boots?

Samara's extremely low-cut catsuit complete with a wedgie and heels was almost as bad as Miranda's outfit. Once again, I found myself staring at her gigantic boobs, not her face, pondering her ridiculous outfit and over endowed bust and not paying attention to the conversation. Her outfit in particular just did not fit her persona. Liara and Jack's outfits suffered from similar problems.

These women are objectified. They are made to satisfy the male gaze; this objectification detracts from the characterization. How am I supposed to take a character seriously when they are dressed so ridiculously? I don't need their sexuality constantly thrown in my face to know that they are sexual people. Ridiculously large busts and asses coupled with silly outfits that most professionals (well, with the exception of certain pro's)  would not wear just screams 'Don't take me seriously. I'm just here to be oggled at!'

Take a step back for a moment guys, and imagine that the male characters were put in similar outfits with similar enhancements to their fun parts. Imagine Vega in a skin tight suit that revealed the outline of his oversized penis and balls. Or, imagine Thane in an outfit that revealed his butt cleavage. Can you tell me that you would take these men seriously? Would they be a distraction for you?

Take a look at this website that shows depictions of men dressed as female comic book characters.

http://goodcomics.co...her-side-lives/

Do you see my point? Those guys look like jokes and that is what BW has done to many of the women in the games. I'll state again, I have no problem with attractive people in the game. But, come on, let's throw out this idealized fantasy version of women as the norm and engage women as people.

Finally, this brings me to Edi. She is the final culmination of this problem. I got tired of looking at her overemphasized bust complete with no clothes. So, I put some clothes on her only to get heels and a ******. I dunno which is worse. Furthering the problem, as so many have mentioned, is the character arc that is explored in relation to sexual relationship with a man. Come on BW, you couldn't think of anything more original than sexy fembot? I'm left pondering how in the hell Edi and Joker can get it on without breaking Joker instead of thinking about the implications of a fully formed AI that is part of the ship but that also has a body. There is so much more territory that could have been explored with Edi but wasn't considered  as she was reduced to her sexuality.

BW did a wonderful job with femShep (although I think this was a by-product of her being the alter ego of male Shep and not by design). FemShep is not a sexualized stereotype. She's kick-ass, strong, intelligent, and sexy all at the same time. Give me more of that BW.

Pretty much said what I wanted to say

[Sleepdribble]

I can't help but be distracted by Edi's metal tongue. I mean, how does that even work? I think about this a lot. It's not an unpleasant thing.

[lillitheris]

AshirahTSparkle wrote...

maia0407 wrote...

As a female gamer, yes, I am bothered by the over-sexualization of women in the ME universe. Before I get into the reasons, I just want to point out that I think the term misogyny is being used too loosely here as I don't see any evidence of hatred for women in the games. I see sexism which is bad enough but I don't think it reaches the level of misogyny.

I can't really discuss EDI without discussing the issues that I have with several of the other female characters including Miranda, Samara, Jack and Liara. I can't speak to Ashley as I haven't met her character. I'm a sex positive person and appreciate attractive people just as much as male gamers. The issue I have is when women's sexual attributes are emphasized to the point that the female characters are obviously being objectified. These women often have strong and interesting personalities. I don't dislike any of them. However, their sexualization in the game takes my mind off these women as people and I'm forced to take notice of their over enhanced attributes.

Often, I found it difficult to follow conversations as I was being forced to stare at Miranda's ass and wonder how in the hell she could find an outfit tight enough to hug her crack all the way up. Did she have it specially made to fit her butt that way? I wondered how thin the material had to be to show her belly-button and found her ****** distracting as well. I understand that Miranda was made to fit an ideal but was it really necessary to emphasize that ideal even further with that outfit? Would male gamers be disappointed to see her in something that didn't look like it was painted on? During combat, wouldn't it be more practical to ditch the catsuit and heels for armor and boots?

Samara's extremely low-cut catsuit complete with a wedgie and heels was almost as bad as Miranda's outfit. Once again, I found myself staring at her gigantic boobs, not her face, pondering her ridiculous outfit and over endowed bust and not paying attention to the conversation. Her outfit in particular just did not fit her persona. Liara and Jack's outfits suffered from similar problems.

These women are objectified. They are made to satisfy the male gaze; this objectification detracts from the characterization. How am I supposed to take a character seriously when they are dressed so ridiculously? I don't need their sexuality constantly thrown in my face to know that they are sexual people. Ridiculously large busts and asses coupled with silly outfits that most professionals (well, with the exception of certain pro's)  would not wear just screams 'Don't take me seriously. I'm just here to be oggled at!'

Take a step back for a moment guys, and imagine that the male characters were put in similar outfits with similar enhancements to their fun parts. Imagine Vega in a skin tight suit that revealed the outline of his oversized penis and balls. Or, imagine Thane in an outfit that revealed his butt cleavage. Can you tell me that you would take these men seriously? Would they be a distraction for you?

Take a look at this website that shows depictions of men dressed as female comic book characters.

http://goodcomics.co...her-side-lives/

Do you see my point? Those guys look like jokes and that is what BW has done to many of the women in the games. I'll state again, I have no problem with attractive people in the game. But, come on, let's throw out this idealized fantasy version of women as the norm and engage women as people.

Finally, this brings me to Edi. She is the final culmination of this problem. I got tired of looking at her overemphasized bust complete with no clothes. So, I put some clothes on her only to get heels and a ******. I dunno which is worse. Furthering the problem, as so many have mentioned, is the character arc that is explored in relation to sexual relationship with a man. Come on BW, you couldn't think of anything more original than sexy fembot? I'm left pondering how in the hell Edi and Joker can get it on without breaking Joker instead of thinking about the implications of a fully formed AI that is part of the ship but that also has a body. There is so much more territory that could have been explored with Edi but wasn't considered  as she was reduced to her sexuality.

BW did a wonderful job with femShep (although I think this was a by-product of her being the alter ego of male Shep and not by design). FemShep is not a sexualized stereotype. She's kick-ass, strong, intelligent, and sexy all at the same time. Give me more of that BW.

Pretty much said what I wanted to say

This is just about right, although I must point out that we get some eye candy from e.g. Jacob, too! And of course one could also argue that the female romances are tailor-made for emotional fulfilment (OK, in ME2 anyway)…there's the classic loveable rogue, and the classic tragic hero seeking redemption.

[gearseffect]

Flidget wrote...

I was alright with EDI's body in terms of the context it was presented in: the body wasn't initially designed for her, it's not her main body and one of the reasons she maintains it is because she wants a relationship with Joker. It's like the robot version of date underwear.

Like everyone else has mentioned, though, Ashley's redesign was seriously out-of-place and out-of-character.

Holy Sh!t Fidget06 is that you dude? You used to have that Thane avatar I was wondering what happened to you?
Also whoever disagreed with me on Miranda, that's your right too, but I you can't change how her personailty rubbed me wrong, and how she came off as a B!tch. It's open to interpratation.

Just like the other night when I was hanging out with a friend we were playing online with open headsets when I said something the effect of "The endings are so gay" She punched me and for some reason when I grunted one of the dudes we where playing online thought I was getting a ******, We couldn't change his mind.

[Reorte]

Speaking as a man who likes an attractive woman as much as anyone I find the ridiculously over-the-top appearance of characters like Miranda and EDI rather ridiculous (EDI arguably even more so). They are so excessive and obvious that they cease to have any sex appeal for me at all. The very first time I saw Miranda I facepalmed. And then they went the same way with Liara and Ashley in ME3...

Tali's figure on the other hand is on the right side of the line for me.

[HellbirdIV]

The fact she got a body didn't bother me. The fact she got... THAT thing... Bothers me a whole lot.

As a male gamer, every single goddamn time there's a character prancing around on screen shoving her oversized ******, hips or ass in the camera I mentally smack my forehead.

Look, Games Industry, if I want to look at boobs, I have an internet connection, so I can just look at porn. There really is no need to put "male gaze" camera angles of Miranda's abnormal butt in every ****ing scene she's in, and there's no reason EDI should have - what are those, double D's? Bigger? with prominently rendered nipple-analogues.

I don't care about the feminism/sexism side of things, I don't care about wether or not blatant fanservice is one of the main reasons "mature" games will never be anything of the sort, I just care about the fact that YOU GOT SMUT IN MY SPACE OPERA, REALLY, THERE'S PLENTY OF JAPANESE PORN GAMES OUT THERE IF I WANTED "MATURE SEX" IN MY GAMES BUT I DON'T, I WANT TO SHOOT THE BAD ROBOTS AND MAKE OUT WITH THE CUTE BLUE GIRL ON THE CORPSE OF A MECHANICAL C'THULHU MONSTER AND REALLY I THINK THE GAME BUDGET AND DEVELOPMENT TIME WOULD HAVE BENEFITTED FROM MORE SCENES OF THAT INSTEAD OF EDI'S CAMELTOE OKAY?!

*takes a deep breath*

F**k.

[Reorte]

LumbercracK wrote...

Why do men want this? Most guys don't want powerful strong women. They want the frail ones. The idea of a woman in a short skirt and tube top with a big sword/gun is attractive because they are frail and easily dominated but they appreciate aggression and violence.

Most guys want someone they can be the hero to but they don't want a frail, feeble wimp. If my girl can pull my arse out of the fire so much the better.

[Zubi Fett]

Kaelef wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

But in the entire series, the only outfit that truly gave me pause was Samara's.

Samara's outfit was pretty ridiculous.  The cleavage she was showing along with her hookeresque outfit hardly seemed appropriate for a "justicar".  And this is coming from a huge fan of cleavage...

I desagree with this. In fact i think her clothes are the most justify in the game for a female.

My reasons:

She already radiates an aura of power and majestic wisdom, this along with the sexuality and beauty she has(where her clothes are big part of it) gives you a great impresion of greatness, power, mysterious beauty and provoque on me a great respect for her.

If you ask me she look like a godess of wisdom and power.

About EDI: I m male and i never play much attention to her body since i find her much more interesting being the ship.

Modifié par Zubi Fett, 22 avril 2012 - 11:28 .

[snackynak]

I think it's hilarious.

This game depicts people getting their head's blown apart, bodies blown apart by grenades, riddled with bullets, incinerated, flash frozen then shattered, melted into geth plasmic goo, melted into reaper goo, genocide, mountains of piled up corpses, beings dismembered then frankensteined with reaper tech, and that's all fine... but god forbid they make an erotic assassin bot with huge ****** and show some cameltoe. Or a bunch of beefcakes that should be riding horseback while shirtless on the cover of some romance novel. That just crosses the line.


I mean, come on... They're obviously comically large because that's where her shield generators are .

[Reorte]

Zubi Fett wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

But in the entire series, the only outfit that truly gave me pause was Samara's.

Samara's outfit was pretty ridiculous.  The cleavage she was showing along with her hookeresque outfit hardly seemed appropriate for a "justicar".  And this is coming from a huge fan of cleavage...

I desagree with this. In fact i think her clothes are the most justify in the game for a female.

My reasons:

She already radiates an aura of power and majestic wisdom, this along with the sexuality and beauty she has(where her clothes are big part of it) gives you a great impresion of greatness, power, mysterious beauty and provoque on me a great respect for her.

If you ask me she look like a godess of wisdom and power.

To me Samara was another glaring example of going well over the top into ridiculous territory, with her completely unsubtle in-your-face appearance (very much in contrast to the rest of her character of being about the only asari with some gravitas about her).

Modifié par Reorte, 22 avril 2012 - 11:34 .

[Reorte]

snackynak wrote...

I think it's hilarious.

This game depicts people getting their head's blown apart, bodies blown apart by grenades, riddled with bullets, incinerated, flash frozen then shattered, melted into geth plasmic goo, melted into reaper goo, genocide, mountains of piled up corpses, beings dismembered then frankensteined with reaper tech, and that's all fine... but god forbid they make an erotic assassin bot with huge ****** and show some cameltoe. Or a bunch of beefcakes that should be riding horseback while shirtless on the cover of some romance novel. That just crosses the line.


I mean, come on... They're obviously comically large because that's where her shield generators are .

You're missing the point (or at least the point as I see it). The complaints aren't due to some sort of prudishness but because most of the female character design seems to have been done by a hormone-fuelled teenage boy and as a result they just look stupid. It's a massively different complaint to the frankly ridiculous alien sideboob moans we got after ME1.

[SinerAthin]

I don't have a problem with it at all.

She was supposed to infiltrate the Mars archives. Big ****** and an alluring voice is a great way of distracting the male guards from the machinery in her body or the fact that she's pretty heavy.

It doesn't seem wrong to me at all.

She's not really a combat unit as much as an infiltration unit.
Legion even commented on the structural flaws of her frame

Modifié par SinerAthin, 22 avril 2012 - 11:36 .

[Elite Midget]

Pshaw, it isn't as bad as destroying Ashley's character and turning her into a resentful barbie doll in ME3 if you didn't romance her.

[snackynak]

Reorte wrote...

snackynak wrote...

I think it's hilarious.

This game depicts people getting their head's blown apart, bodies blown apart by grenades, riddled with bullets, incinerated, flash frozen then shattered, melted into geth plasmic goo, melted into reaper goo, genocide, mountains of piled up corpses, beings dismembered then frankensteined with reaper tech, and that's all fine... but god forbid they make an erotic assassin bot with huge ****** and show some cameltoe. Or a bunch of beefcakes that should be riding horseback while shirtless on the cover of some romance novel. That just crosses the line.


I mean, come on... They're obviously comically large because that's where her shield generators are .

You're missing the point (or at least the point as I see it). The complaints aren't due to some sort of prudishness but because most of the female character design seems to have been done by a hormone-fuelled teenage boy and as a result they just look stupid. It's a massively different complaint to the frankly ridiculous alien sideboob moans we got after ME1.

I thought the last line would of been an indication of sarcasm...

[PSUHammer]

Sexualization (is that a word?) is not just in games, it is in all media. For instance, why are there rarely unattractive doctors on the ER or Grey's Anatomy type shows? Rarely is there an obese person....or a lot of Indian and Arab doctors running around (as was the case at the hospital my son was born at a few months ago).

It happens for men, as well. Vega might be a stab at that. Someone said "imagine if they had a tight shot outlining his penis" or something similar as a comparison. But, I think tight shirt and muscles are part of that. I don't know that many women who would look at a bulge in a speedo and be turned on more than seeing a muscular guy with his shirt off.

I think this game has a mix. Some of the women are not overly sexed up (Ashley, Liara, Kasumi, Traynor, etc.) and some are (Miranda, almost tongue in cheek, now with the ass shots).

I also don't think it is that big of a deal. This game is marketed to adults as it is rated "Mature." Sexualized media shouldn't be affecting well adjusted adults. If it is, then someone needs therapy because it will never change.

[PSUHammer]

snackynak wrote...

Reorte wrote...

snackynak wrote...

I think it's hilarious.

This game depicts people getting their head's blown apart, bodies blown apart by grenades, riddled with bullets, incinerated, flash frozen then shattered, melted into geth plasmic goo, melted into reaper goo, genocide, mountains of piled up corpses, beings dismembered then frankensteined with reaper tech, and that's all fine... but god forbid they make an erotic assassin bot with huge ****** and show some cameltoe. Or a bunch of beefcakes that should be riding horseback while shirtless on the cover of some romance novel. That just crosses the line.


I mean, come on... They're obviously comically large because that's where her shield generators are .

You're missing the point (or at least the point as I see it). The complaints aren't due to some sort of prudishness but because most of the female character design seems to have been done by a hormone-fuelled teenage boy and as a result they just look stupid. It's a massively different complaint to the frankly ridiculous alien sideboob moans we got after ME1.

I thought the last line would of been an indication of sarcasm...

I agree with your point about people overlooking the other themes and violence.  It is ridiculous.  But the complaints here are the potrayal of women in the game.  On that, I disagree that it is over the top.  It has some of it for men AND women...while others are more neutral.

[PSUHammer]

Elite Midget wrote...

Pshaw, it isn't as bad as destroying Ashley's character and turning her into a resentful barbie doll in ME3 if you didn't romance her.

Because they let her hair down?  I agree she is disagreeable from a personality standpoint, but she just looks like ash without her hair up.

[spiriticon]

I always thought EDI gave herself a cameltoe to attract Joker.

She called Joker on his bull**** when he said she didn't have to conform to stereotypical male ideals on women in order to attract him.

[BattleVisor]

high heels in combat really is silly.

[Elite Midget]

Hammer6767 wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Pshaw, it isn't as bad as destroying Ashley's character and turning her into a resentful barbie doll in ME3 if you didn't romance her.

Because they let her hair down?  I agree she is disagreeable from a personality standpoint, but she just looks like ash without her hair up.

They did more than let her hair down. She's not even the same character and doesnt' even look remotely the same and her change wasn't what any Ashley fans wanted. We said we wanted her back, not turn her into Miranda 2.0 and give her heals, long hair, and "enhancements", and skin tight armor.

[BattleVisor]

grey_wind wrote...

I'm a guy, just so you know.
I liked EDI as my ship. Her getting a body felt forced for the sake of giving you a third squadmate. And using her as the returning ME2 character that became a squadmate just felt like they couldn't be arsed to write in an actual ME2 squaddie but were throwing the people who loved the ME2 cast a bone for the hell of it. The proportions of her body were also a bit ridiculous (that it's a robot body doesn't cut it).
Hypersexuality works if it fits with the character IMO. The problem is, it rarely does in most video games. Samara is a shining example of when it doesn't, while Jack is a great example of when it does.
Personally, and this is my opinion, I feel the relationship between EDI and Joker would have been cuter if it was EDI (as the ship without the stupid robot body) who was the one who fell for Joker. Would have made the AI having 'human' emotions a lot more interesting when you remove her having a relatable human body from the equation.

I completely agree, and Im a guy

[PSUHammer]

Elite Midget wrote...

Hammer6767 wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Pshaw, it isn't as bad as destroying Ashley's character and turning her into a resentful barbie doll in ME3 if you didn't romance her.

Because they let her hair down?  I agree she is disagreeable from a personality standpoint, but she just looks like ash without her hair up.

They did more than let her hair down. She's not even the same character and doesnt' even look remotely the same and her change wasn't what any Ashley fans wanted. We said we wanted her back, not turn her into Miranda 2.0 and give her heals, long hair, and "enhancements", and skin tight armor.

You shouldn't generalize.  You aren't speaking for me and I liked Ashley's character.  I found little issue with her in ME3 other than she continued to be amazingly stubborn.

[Momiji.mii]

EDI was only a small part of the bigger problem: As others have pointed out, all women became gradually more and more sexualized as the trilogy went on. When it comes to female portrayal, I personally think that the first game got it right. After that, well, not so much.