112 réponses à ce sujet

[Nialos]

This isn't new territory for Bioware. Expect far more down the line. Hell, expect to see it in Mass Effect 2. I'm sure that will generate some more buzz in the media. Again.



Not like it's a bad thing. Keeps people talking. Keeps people thinking.

[Inarai]

krullstar wrote...

Inarai wrote...

krullstar wrote...

Artistic standpoint - create a comic of Muhammad wearing a turban which is a bomb.
Result? Riots all over the world.

When artistic freedom targets hotly debated social issues etc then very likely some kind of fallout can be expected.

Think of the Civil Rights movement and pretend that back then there were computer games and in one such game a black character had a love scene with a white female - such as we see in DAO. Think there would be any kind of reaction?

So all I am stating is that when a game plays on racism, sexuality, disparity between poor and rich then the higher the probability that the game will get some kind of reaction from one group or another.

So, what, you're saying we should pander to knuckle-dragging bigots with their heads stuck firmly...  In the past, and of whom there is literally nothing kind to say?

I will say this once:  Hell.  No.

And frankly, reaction is good.  Reaction means discussion.  Progress cannot occur in silence.

I disagree.  Not all reaction is good and it definitely does not always lead to discussion.  As for progress - according to who?  How do you define progress?  Is it based on what you think is 'right'?  

As with all things, I always try to pick a middle ground.  A balanced approach to everything works a lot better than 'either you are with us or against us' mentality.  I think game developers could successfully tackle real life issues in games just as long as their approach was 'balanced'.  Not over the top, not heavy handed but just enough to get people thinking - such as what was done with the Stone Warrior in DAO.  The other characters in the game, I personally found some of them a bit over the top.

So, in other words, they must follow your approach to be acceptable.  They are either with you, or against you...

The hypocrisy is incredible, truly.

But no, balanced is not always right.  You do not strike a balance between the desire of the bigot to opress against the desire to be free  And beyond that, the point is very often to make a STATEMENT.  This means taking a position, and making a case for it.

[Rainen89]

The fact is we wouldn't even be discussing it it was hetero, but we're not because there's zomg a gay. Zevran is a man-**** everyone knows it, he's a lovable oaf but he treats a male no different than he does a female, the greatest part about all this is that during the dialogue Zevran asks the male pc if this offends you that he calls you handsome. If it does, no more flirting. If it doesn't (and there's only one option that enables him to continue.) then he will persist. Sigh so silly.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

I have no problem with homosexuality or bisexuality in games, I only had a problem with how obvious Zevran was being. It was too blunt for me and also the lines he said when flirting with you (like the famous "assassinating" quote) was just too much.

[Pinkleaf]

Bioware's attitude towards sexual preference is liberated (thank goodness)



This is part off the package that has allowed Bioware to raise the bar, making this the template for all future role playing games, since the release of Dragon age, nothing short of this will bring satisfaction.

[Shannara13]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

I have no problem with homosexuality or bisexuality in games, I only had a problem with how obvious Zevran was being. It was too blunt for me and also the lines he said when flirting with you (like the famous "assassinating" quote) was just too much.

Do you have an issue with him being that blunt to female characters? I detect double standards.

[Rainen89]

Like I said if it's too much shoot him down, you can stop him at any time, sadly that's zevran that's not him being a homosexual, that is zevran. He will act the same exact way (actually even more so) if the PC is female.

[Kuldiin]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

I have no problem with homosexuality or bisexuality in games, I only had a problem with how obvious Zevran was being. It was too blunt for me and also the lines he said when flirting with you (like the famous "assassinating" quote) was just too much.

I thought it was almost too much of a pun him being Gay, what with his class being a backstabber..

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

Shannara13 wrote...
Do you have an issue with him being that blunt to female characters? 

Yes, I do. I have a problem with bluntless in any romance story actually. I like the subtlety.

I detect double standards.

Check your sensors, I think they are in error.

[soteria]

krullstar wrote...

I am not a conservative or anything but man what is with all the gay & bisexual themes in the game?
Brings new meaning to Bi-O-Ware!

I understand the world is changing, and people are growing more tolerant to such things but come on - any more and I would expect the music score of the game to include 'Its Raining Men'! LOL

To me the funniest thing about this post is the implication that being "a conservative" is something to be ashamed of.  It sounded like saying, "I'm not racist or anything, but...."

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

soteria wrote...

krullstar wrote...

I am not a conservative or anything but man what is with all the gay & bisexual themes in the game?
Brings new meaning to Bi-O-Ware!

I understand the world is changing, and people are growing more tolerant to such things but come on - any more and I would expect the music score of the game to include 'Its Raining Men'! LOL

To me the funniest thing about this post is the implication that being "a conservative" is something to be ashamed of.  It sounded like saying, "I'm not racist or anything, but...."

Being a conservative on the internet generally earns negative attention, from my experience.

[Schyzm]

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

In roman times the words gay, lesbian and bi didnt exist. Sex was sex. Didnt matter how or with who you got pleasure from. Shouldve stayed that way really. Gay, bi, lesbian... all these terms was created in later times with religion and its morals.

DA:O has sexual elements thats it, why should gay, lesbian and bi relationship mean anything more or less than "normal" ones??

Edit: Actually i fail to understand why sex is an issue at all in an 18+ game. Considering that age limit Leliana being into SM and morrigan taking a dump on your face while being humped by a goat MIGHT be extreme enough to trigger a debate. Normal sex shouldnt.

yes it should have stayed exactly like the roman times...


"The earliest formal record of legislation is Lex Scantinia, enacted in either 225 or 149 BC which regulated sexual behavior, including pederasty, adultery and passivity, and legislated the death penalty for same-sex behavior among free-born men"

methinks maybe you be swallowing a bit too much homosexual propaganda.

[Rainen89]

Sigh, there's nothing wrong with you thinking one thing or the other but for someone like the OP to say that the homosexuality is overwhelming and needs to be removed that is the ignorance that is irritating. I'll agree Zevran bluntly saying how he wants to jump my bones was not exactly the most elegant and in fact I'd argue a tad stereotypical but it was lovable nonetheless.

[Tomark]

Indeed, homesexuality was more of a greek thing (where it was not only accepted, it was pushed).

It was kind of the opposite of "don't ask don't tell" as it was purposefully made so older warriors 'mentored' younger ones, with planning in colors and everything. <_<

[Shannara13]

Schyzm wrote...

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

In roman times the words gay, lesbian and bi didnt exist. Sex was sex. Didnt matter how or with who you got pleasure from. Shouldve stayed that way really. Gay, bi, lesbian... all these terms was created in later times with religion and its morals.

DA:O has sexual elements thats it, why should gay, lesbian and bi relationship mean anything more or less than "normal" ones??

Edit: Actually i fail to understand why sex is an issue at all in an 18+ game. Considering that age limit Leliana being into SM and morrigan taking a dump on your face while being humped by a goat MIGHT be extreme enough to trigger a debate. Normal sex shouldnt.

yes it should have stayed exactly like the roman times...


"The earliest formal record of legislation is Lex Scantinia, enacted in either 225 or 149 BC which regulated sexual behavior, including pederasty, adultery and passivity, and legislated the death penalty for same-sex behavior among free-born men"

methinks maybe you be swallowing a bit too much homosexual propaganda.

I think she just got ancient rome confused with ancient greece.

[Rainen89]

Greek: See pedophilic orgies, not everything about history is glamorous.

Complete freedom is not limited to desire to pursue ones own sexual desire. That is just allowing people to pursue what feels right to them. At best you could call it hedonism but every @#*@#Ng person is to some extent a hedonist. Saying rules say we shouldn't acknowledge homosexuality because it could lead to social upheaval and anarchy is something I don't even think Fox news would say, sigh I truly, truly abhor trolls.

Modifié par Rainen89, 07 décembre 2009 - 07:29 .

[Kaosgirl]

krullstar wrote...

Inarai wrote...

krullstar wrote...

Artistic standpoint - create a comic of Muhammad wearing a turban which is a bomb.
Result? Riots all over the world.

When artistic freedom targets hotly debated social issues etc then very likely some kind of fallout can be expected.

Think of the Civil Rights movement and pretend that back then there were computer games and in one such game a black character had a love scene with a white female - such as we see in DAO. Think there would be any kind of reaction?

So all I am stating is that when a game plays on racism, sexuality, disparity between poor and rich then the higher the probability that the game will get some kind of reaction from one group or another.

So, what, you're saying we should pander to knuckle-dragging bigots with their heads stuck firmly...  In the past, and of whom there is literally nothing kind to say?

I will say this once:  Hell.  No.

And frankly, reaction is good.  Reaction means discussion.  Progress cannot occur in silence.

I disagree.  Not all reaction is good and it definitely does not always lead to discussion.  As for progress - according to who?  How do you define progress?  Is it based on what you think is 'right'?

More or less.  And though we might disagree on the specifics of what is "right," I would expect that most feel the same as well.
Save for those who's of "right" equates to "the status quo is God", as they feel all change is inherently wrong and "progress" is a null concept.  

krullstar wrote...
As with all things, I always try to pick a middle ground.  A balanced approach to everything works a lot better than 'either you are with us or against us' mentality.  I think game developers could successfully tackle real life issues in games just as long as their approach was 'balanced'.  Not over the top, not heavy handed but just enough to get people thinking - such as what was done with the Stone Warrior in DAO.  The other characters in the game, I personally found some of them a bit over the top.

"Heavy handed" and "over the top" are qualitative assessments, and thus very subjective.  As such, there is no perfect balance;  someone will always object that it's too much, and someone else will counter that it wasn't enough.

[KEMKA]

I never manage to go a day without seeing someone (be it a stranger I walked past) who i suspect is gay. Why do people seems to think that homosexuality/bisexuality is not extremely common?



I'll admit i think Zevran is slightly OTT and stereotyped too much, but in terms of the *amount* of gay/bi content I don't think Bioware are being radical or anything... then again two of my closest friends are gay so I don't really bat an eyelid at such things. The game would differ from your everyday experiences as you interact with random strangers in the game, which you probably wouldn't in real life. If you stopped and talked to a few strangers in the street maybe you'd be surprised?

[Lughsan35]

-k-a-t-e- wrote...

I never manage to go a day without seeing someone (be it a stranger I walked past) who i suspect is gay. Why do people seems to think that homosexuality/bisexuality is not extremely common?

I'll admit i think Zevran is slightly OTT and stereotyped too much, but in terms of the *amount* of gay/bi content I don't think Bioware are being radical or anything... then again two of my closest friends are gay so I don't really bat an eyelid at such things. The game would differ from your everyday experiences as you interact with random strangers in the game, which you probably wouldn't in real life. If you stopped and talked to a few strangers in the street maybe you'd be surprised?

Alfred Kinsey proved in the 50's that only about 10% of the population is 100% gay or 100% hetero...The other 80% is a mix...

[Rainen89]

It's like how people think gay people just magically spawned in the 1980s.

[Shannara13]

-k-a-t-e- wrote...

I never manage to go a day without seeing someone (be it a stranger I walked past) who i suspect is gay. Why do people seems to think that homosexuality/bisexuality is not extremely common?

Because while 1 in 20 or so people might be gay they have to stay low key. They can't do public displays of affections like heteros can for fear of triggering a bigoted reaction. This leads to people thinking that they have only ment a few homosexuals in thier life when infact they have meant a great many but just didn't realize it.

[Mr_Martlet]

The truth is that only 1% of humanity is homosexual or bisexual. Those who are doing that kind of sexual behavior want us to believe they are 10% of humanity. Do the math and think about it. The game as it show this kind of behavior right now is projecting that 20% to 25% of humanity is behaving in this way. If you want to portray this in a reality based way. The numbers should reflect the true percentages.

[Rainen89]

^ No, no it's quite a bit more than 1% but I'll indulge you. The earth's last estimated population was.6.802 billion. so 1% is 68,020,000 so if 68 million people is not enough for you to give a damn that they deserve some semblance of equality then you're an idiot. Keep in mind the number is drastically higher than 1% this is just to inform you that even if it was, that's a lot of people.