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After careful thought, I believe Indoctrination Theory.

Débuté par DOCTOR CHA0TICA , avril 22 2012 01:10

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#26
KingZayd
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:43

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DJBare wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

me too, but i think the Earthchild's actually real, and not part of the indoctrination itself.

If they go for IT, then I'd say the child was never real(accept when he is playing on the roof garden), remember the first scene when Shepard is knocked unconscious?, and then there is the fact that no one but Shepard ever sees the child, Anderson does not seem the type that would ignore a child hiding in the vent, he had to have heard Shepard talking to someone but makes no mention of it.


But then why is this the only point in the game (the start), when the reaper taint is probably its smallest,  that Shepard sees things that aren't real while being conscious?

I think everything we've seen while Shepard was conscious was real. But each later dream, you notice more of those oily black shadows, and the images of the child are more haunting. And then, after being knocked unconscious by Harby's beam splash damage and on the brink of death (mental barriers seriously weakened), you get the choice, where you can REJECT the destruction of the reapers in favour of some other option. That is the turning point in indoctrination, when Shepard's decisions are affected.

#27
DJBare
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:44

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DOCTOR CHA0TICA wrote...

Nice to know I'm not alone!

There are many who believe the IT theory, but also many that rightfully say if IT is true then they did not get a full game.

#28
KingZayd
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:45

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Master Che wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Master Che wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

me too, but i think the Earthchild's actually real, and not part of the indoctrination itself.


Heres the thing about that:  the boy on Earth looks like star child?  Shep has nightmares and the catalyst takes that form?
It PICKED that form...so what is It?  
Harbinger?
SOVEREIGN?  THAT WOULD KICK ASS!

The Starchild looks like the Earthchild, not the other way round :P the Starchild is exploiting Shepard's emotional vulnerabilities.


What if they are the same?  Remember that the theory proposes that the boy was an indoctrination induced hallucinating 


There are multiple versions of the same idea, that the end is a choice that takes place in Shepard's mind, influenced by indoctrination. (Think of it as an attempted coup by the reaper taint in Shepard's mind). They are not all the same.

Modifié par KingZayd, 22 avril 2012 - 01:47 .

#29
DJBare
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:47

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KingZayd wrote...

But then why is this the only point in the game (the start), when the reaper taint is probably its smallest,  that Shepard sees things that aren't real while being conscious?

S/He's just taken a hit to the head, earth is under attack by Reapers, s/he just watched the admiralty board and all the soldiers in the building get blasted to kingdom come, I'd say his/her state of mind is not at it's best.

Modifié par DJBare, 22 avril 2012 - 01:48 .

#30
NM_Che56
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:49

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Agree to disagree. I firmly believe the boy was a reaper projection into Shep's mind in order to break his will and his confidence. I think when we say star boy we were supposed to go "AHHHHHHHH"!

#31
CavScout
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:50

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia

#32
NM_Che56
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:50

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DJBare wrote...

DOCTOR CHA0TICA wrote...

Nice to know I'm not alone!

There are many who believe the IT theory, but also many that rightfully say if IT is true then they did not get a full game.


I believe that each piece of DLC was going to have bits of the ending.  That would've been the hook.

#33
KingZayd
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:51

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DJBare wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

But then why is this the only point in the game (the start), when the reaper taint is probably its smallest,  that Shepard sees things that aren't real while being conscious?

S/He's just taken a hit to the head, earth is under attack by Reapers, s/he just watched the admiralty board and all the soldiers in the building get blasted to kingdom come, I'd say his/her state of mind is not at it's best.


He didn't hallucinate when Ashley got her head caved in (to be fair, I hated her), he didn't hallucinate when Mordin died, he didn't hallucinate when Legion died. He didn't hallucinate after Thessia when his stress levels were at a record high (Joker tells you). I think the Earthchild is real. The Starchild just takes this image to prey on your emotional vulnerabilities.

#34
NM_Che56
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:52

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CavScout wrote...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial

#35
NM_Che56
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:53

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KingZayd wrote...

DJBare wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

But then why is this the only point in the game (the start), when the reaper taint is probably its smallest,  that Shepard sees things that aren't real while being conscious?

S/He's just taken a hit to the head, earth is under attack by Reapers, s/he just watched the admiralty board and all the soldiers in the building get blasted to kingdom come, I'd say his/her state of mind is not at it's best.

He didn't hallucinate when Ashley got her head caved in (to be fair, I hated her), he didn't hallucinate when Mordin died, he didn't hallucinate when Legion died. He didn't hallucinate after Thessia when his stress levels were at a record high (Joker tells you). I think the Earthchild is real. The Starchild just takes this image to prey on your emotional vulnerabilities.


Both are possible 

#36
CavScout
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:53

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Navasha wrote...

I think that people who adamantly refuse to believe in even the possibility of the indoctrination theory, just don't want to admit that they might have made the "wrong" choice at the end.

The Indoc. theory is the certainly the best fit to explain everything left so unanswered in the current endings. That doesn't mean there are not other possibilities, but there is just so much foreshadowing in the game as to what is expected at the end.


I think people who clutch to Indoctrination Theory are like those folks who see Jesus in their toast. They so want to believe that they start making connections where there aren't any.

#37
DJBare
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:54

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Master Che wrote...

Agree to disagree. I firmly believe the boy was a reaper projection into Shep's mind in order to break his will and his confidence. I think when we say star boy we were supposed to go "AHHHHHHHH"!

Yes, the boy might be a reaper projection, Shepard witnessed a real child playing in that garden, this is then used by the reapers, btw it should be noted indoctrination takes the form of nanite technology that's in the blood stream, Shepard has had plenty of opportunity to come in contact with these nanites.

#38
CavScout
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:55

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Hammer6767 wrote...

When Gamble and others have been asked if IT is possible and will be addressed, they have been coy. No flat out denials. While this may not mean anything, they are still giving fans the option of believing it. They could have easily said the IT was just fans overthinking things and said the existing ending will just be expanded.


What do they gain by crushing a segment of their fan base?

#39
NM_Che56
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:56

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CavScout wrote...

Navasha wrote...

I think that people who adamantly refuse to believe in even the possibility of the indoctrination theory, just don't want to admit that they might have made the "wrong" choice at the end.

The Indoc. theory is the certainly the best fit to explain everything left so unanswered in the current endings. That doesn't mean there are not other possibilities, but there is just so much foreshadowing in the game as to what is expected at the end.


I think people who clutch to Indoctrination Theory are like those folks who see Jesus in their toast. They so want to believe that they start making connections where there aren't any.


I think people who just try to ****** on the theory just think its fashionable to bad mouth bioware and are resentful that they got head faked. They never levy legitimate attacks on the theory the just attack the subscribers.

#40
CavScout
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:57

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Master Che wrote...

CavScout wrote...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Proof_(truth)

#41
DJBare
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:59

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KingZayd wrote...

He didn't hallucinate when Ashley got her head caved in (to be fair, I hated her), he didn't hallucinate when Mordin died, he didn't hallucinate when Legion died. He didn't hallucinate after Thessia when his stress levels were at a record high (Joker tells you). I think the Earthchild is real. The Starchild just takes this image to prey on your emotional vulnerabilities.

Think a little, if the child shows up during those missions then that's immediately going to make Shepard suspicious, indoctrinated victims are not supposed to be aware they are indoctrinated, hence "insidious"

#42
CavScout
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 02:01

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Master Che wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Navasha wrote...

I think that people who adamantly refuse to believe in even the possibility of the indoctrination theory, just don't want to admit that they might have made the "wrong" choice at the end.

The Indoc. theory is the certainly the best fit to explain everything left so unanswered in the current endings. That doesn't mean there are not other possibilities, but there is just so much foreshadowing in the game as to what is expected at the end.


I think people who clutch to Indoctrination Theory are like those folks who see Jesus in their toast. They so want to believe that they start making connections where there aren't any.


I think people who just try to ****** on the theory just think its fashionable to bad mouth bioware and are resentful that they got head faked. They never levy legitimate attacks on the theory the just attack the subscribers.


What world are you living in where thinking the Indoctrination Theory is bunk is an attack on BioWare?

#43
CavScout
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 02:01

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DJBare wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

He didn't hallucinate when Ashley got her head caved in (to be fair, I hated her), he didn't hallucinate when Mordin died, he didn't hallucinate when Legion died. He didn't hallucinate after Thessia when his stress levels were at a record high (Joker tells you). I think the Earthchild is real. The Starchild just takes this image to prey on your emotional vulnerabilities.

Think a little, if the child shows up during those missions then that's immediately going to make Shepard suspicious, indoctrinated victims are not supposed to be aware they are indoctrinated, hence "insidious"


Or, the kid just died when his shuttle was blown up....

#44
redplague
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 02:02

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Umm...you realise that the indoctrination theory has already been disproven by Bioware and their summer DLC release right, as the indoctrination theory was based on the fact that it was all planned by Bioware, which obviously we realise now that it wasn't.

#45
NM_Che56
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 02:02

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CavScout wrote...

Master Che wrote...

CavScout wrote...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Proof_(truth)


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory
 Anyone who took a basic science class in college will tell you that you cannot prove theories to be true.

#46
DJBare
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 02:02

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Master Che, let it go, I can assure you CavScout will not.

#47
NM_Che56
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 02:03

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redplague wrote...

Umm...you realise that the indoctrination theory has already been disproven by Bioware and their summer DLC release right, as the indoctrination theory was based on the fact that it was all planned by Bioware, which obviously we realise now that it wasn't.


Dont go by memory.  Show us.

#48
NM_Che56
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 02:05

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DJBare wrote...

Master Che, let it go, I can assure you CavScout will not.

. Yep

#49
CavScout
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 02:06

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Master Che wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Master Che wrote...

CavScout wrote...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Proof_(truth)


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory
 Anyone who took a basic science class in college will tell you that you cannot prove theories to be true.


Indoctrination Theory is not a scientific theory. Your basic science class would have told you that.

#50
KingZayd
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 02:06

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DJBare wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

He didn't hallucinate when Ashley got her head caved in (to be fair, I hated her), he didn't hallucinate when Mordin died, he didn't hallucinate when Legion died. He didn't hallucinate after Thessia when his stress levels were at a record high (Joker tells you). I think the Earthchild is real. The Starchild just takes this image to prey on your emotional vulnerabilities.

Think a little, if the child shows up during those missions then that's immediately going to make Shepard suspicious, indoctrinated victims are not supposed to be aware they are indoctrinated, hence "insidious"


I don't think manufacturing the emotional vulnerability (seeing  a kid die) is necessary. Nor do i think it's possible at such an early stage of indoctrination. We see the Earthchild only at the beginning, and the Starchild at the end looks like the Earthchild, but since it's using information from Shepard's mind to create this image (even if the end  WAS real) this just makes sense. The Earthchild WAS real, and then he died, having an emotional impact on Shepard. The reaper influence takes advantage of this.
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