I'm surprised by the hate Kai Leng received. Im curious, would you kindly answer this post with if you hated him and did you read the ME books or not. No clarification needed as this is a non spoiler post.
Question For Kai Leng haters...
Débuté par
Sipau Fade
, avril 22 2012 01:29
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#2
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:33
Lincoln MuaDib
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Well, I thought he was a good character, though of course he was hated by my Shepard. Arrogant, cowardly and sneaky- right up until the end he crows that he's better than you. Hated the behaviour- didn't hate his inclusion.
Diane Allers, however...uhhhh. Let's not go there.
Diane Allers, however...uhhhh. Let's not go there.
#3
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:33
Lars10178
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I hated that he was the arch enemy, when he was not presented to the series in a DLC of some sort. I read all of the books and he is a great character.
#5
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:36
spacehamsterZH
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I haven't read the books.
My problems with the character are basically two things.
1) Visually and conceptually, he seems completely out of place in ME3. He looks like Adam Jensen and behaves like an Anime character.
2) There's zero depth and nothing interesting about him. As a character, he barely exists. Maybe reading the books would help, but I think the game itself should provide enough characterization. It seems like at some point he may have been intended as the anti-Shepard, TIM's new cyborg lapdog after Shep jumped ship, but almost none of that is left, and he's just an annoying guy who shows up a couple of times and pisses Shepard off.
Basically, he comes across as a Mary Sue character. As if someone on the dev team liked DX:HR and Anime and just suddenly got it in their heads that no matter what, a character like that needed to be in the game because, well, I think he's goddam cool, that's why. And that's just... you know, really bad.
My problems with the character are basically two things.
1) Visually and conceptually, he seems completely out of place in ME3. He looks like Adam Jensen and behaves like an Anime character.
2) There's zero depth and nothing interesting about him. As a character, he barely exists. Maybe reading the books would help, but I think the game itself should provide enough characterization. It seems like at some point he may have been intended as the anti-Shepard, TIM's new cyborg lapdog after Shep jumped ship, but almost none of that is left, and he's just an annoying guy who shows up a couple of times and pisses Shepard off.
Basically, he comes across as a Mary Sue character. As if someone on the dev team liked DX:HR and Anime and just suddenly got it in their heads that no matter what, a character like that needed to be in the game because, well, I think he's goddam cool, that's why. And that's just... you know, really bad.
#6
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:37
Remus A
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He was a generic baddie. I didn't think much of him, but I don't hate him either.
#7
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:38
KuldarYldrad
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I read all books and Kai Leng was fine. I don't count ME:Deception as BioWare want to make some change.
But in ME 3 it's just a cyber-ninja with poor scripted fights.
But in ME 3 it's just a cyber-ninja with poor scripted fights.
#8
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:39
dekkerd
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Read the books, aside from the last. That was not the character in the books I read. Stereotypical cyber ninja.
#9
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:41
eternalnightmare13
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Didn't read any of the books, but was somewhat familiar with him via the forums prior to playing ME3.
Didn't hate him just found him to be rather generic/faceless villian. Unlike Saren, they didn't do anything to introduce him in the game, but instead relied upon players knowing who he was via an in game email and their books. Even the dialogue with Anderson was weak when you ask about him. Really didn't care about him either way, which is the worst thing a writer that have happen to his character. Lazy writing by Bioware. Never cared for the way Bioware came out with books/comics, and it's even worse when they put things in the books but not in the games, ie intro a character.
Didn't hate him just found him to be rather generic/faceless villian. Unlike Saren, they didn't do anything to introduce him in the game, but instead relied upon players knowing who he was via an in game email and their books. Even the dialogue with Anderson was weak when you ask about him. Really didn't care about him either way, which is the worst thing a writer that have happen to his character. Lazy writing by Bioware. Never cared for the way Bioware came out with books/comics, and it's even worse when they put things in the books but not in the games, ie intro a character.
#10
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:43
eternalnightmare13
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+1spacehamsterZH wrote...
I haven't read the books.
My problems with the character are basically two things.
1) Visually and conceptually, he seems completely out of place in ME3. He looks like Adam Jensen and behaves like an Anime character.
2) There's zero depth and nothing interesting about him. As a character, he barely exists. Maybe reading the books would help, but I think the game itself should provide enough characterization. It seems like at some point he may have been intended as the anti-Shepard, TIM's new cyborg lapdog after Shep jumped ship, but almost none of that is left, and he's just an annoying guy who shows up a couple of times and pisses Shepard off.
Basically, he comes across as a Mary Sue character. As if someone on the dev team liked DX:HR and Anime and just suddenly got it in their heads that no matter what, a character like that needed to be in the game because, well, I think he's goddam cool, that's why. And that's just... you know, really bad.
#11
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:43
Gleym
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Gary Stu, pretty much. Outside of his presence in the books he comes off as this 'omg super dark Shepurd who is your archnemesis even though you've never met!' And like Dekkerd's post above me says, it seems that in terms of how he appears in the books and how he's in the game there's a huge difference. Though let's not be too surprised at the idea of ME3 screwing up continuity, characterization and themes by now.
Modifié par Gleym, 22 avril 2012 - 01:44 .
#12
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:48
Swordfishtrombone
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Haven't read the books. I don't hate him - I just thought he was pretty "meh" as a villain. I think the problem with Kai Leng was that the character didn't have enough "screen time" time to develop as a villain; maybe if we'd known him from the earlier games, in some role, he would have worked better.
I also didn't like the way the battles with him were orchestrated - the "invulnerable" recovery breaks he took seemed pretty lame. Rather than such coreography, I'd have liked to see him be tougher to begin with, so that no such artificial orchestrations would have been needed.
I also didn't like the way the battles with him were orchestrated - the "invulnerable" recovery breaks he took seemed pretty lame. Rather than such coreography, I'd have liked to see him be tougher to begin with, so that no such artificial orchestrations would have been needed.
Modifié par Swordfishtrombone, 22 avril 2012 - 01:49 .
#13
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:53
redplague
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I'm not sure exactly what he was supposed to be doing during the fights against him.
The first one he dances about then you bring his shields down a bit then he goes and recharges and you take cover then he dances some more and you damage his shields and this continues a few times.
The second fight against him you press F repeatidly I think it was, then he makes you some cover positions (thanks for that) then you have to fight Cerberus troops, then he does some more dancing and you damage his shields, then he makes you some more cover postions and more Cerberus troops arrive and so on until finally during his dancing you can destroy his shields and then kill with Incinerate and something else (whatever you choose bullets or powers).
The first one he dances about then you bring his shields down a bit then he goes and recharges and you take cover then he dances some more and you damage his shields and this continues a few times.
The second fight against him you press F repeatidly I think it was, then he makes you some cover positions (thanks for that) then you have to fight Cerberus troops, then he does some more dancing and you damage his shields, then he makes you some more cover postions and more Cerberus troops arrive and so on until finally during his dancing you can destroy his shields and then kill with Incinerate and something else (whatever you choose bullets or powers).
#14
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 01:57
Apple_NdiB
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Why does he bring a knife to a gunfight? Why are his shields invulnerable to 8 adrenaline rush-powered, disruptor ammo augmented shots from my Sabre X? Why does he have to do cartwheels to move from point A to B? Who thought this **** was acceptable in my Mass Effect?
Modifié par Apple_NdiB, 22 avril 2012 - 02:33 .
#15
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 02:03
HellbirdIV
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I don't like Kai Leng because;
1. He runs around with a katana and cyber-tech sunglasses in a setting that up until ME3 was fairly realistic in terms of combat gear. (Kinetic barriers are supposed to give you a few extra seconds of protection if you get shot, not make you invulnerable so you can charge people with a ****ing sword that, apparently, is more powerful than bullets)
2. He appeared right the **** out of nowhere two-thirds into the game and his very presence made Shepard act like a blithering idiot (He's on top of the flying car. FLIP IT OVER, IT'S A FLYING CAR) while serving no real purpose other than to introduce a "dragon" to the story (a powerful henchman to the big bad, even though there wasn't one in either ME1 or 2) that didn't need one.
3. He's protected by plot shields and his boss fight on Thessia is very poorly designed. It doesn't feel like he "defeats" you, it feels like you get cheated out of winning by bad writing.
4. He doesn't work as a nemesis to Shepard because he's inept (Thane kicks his ass while half-dead from a terminal disease 6 months overdue to kill him), whiny (he goes "Shut uuuup!" if you talk smack to him) and really, really bad at appearing threatening or clever with his dialogue, unlike Shepard who's actually a functional "Cool badass" (regardless of wether you're Paragon or Renegade) because the voice acting and writing is top notch on Shep. Not anywhere close for Kai Leng.
1. He runs around with a katana and cyber-tech sunglasses in a setting that up until ME3 was fairly realistic in terms of combat gear. (Kinetic barriers are supposed to give you a few extra seconds of protection if you get shot, not make you invulnerable so you can charge people with a ****ing sword that, apparently, is more powerful than bullets)
2. He appeared right the **** out of nowhere two-thirds into the game and his very presence made Shepard act like a blithering idiot (He's on top of the flying car. FLIP IT OVER, IT'S A FLYING CAR) while serving no real purpose other than to introduce a "dragon" to the story (a powerful henchman to the big bad, even though there wasn't one in either ME1 or 2) that didn't need one.
3. He's protected by plot shields and his boss fight on Thessia is very poorly designed. It doesn't feel like he "defeats" you, it feels like you get cheated out of winning by bad writing.
4. He doesn't work as a nemesis to Shepard because he's inept (Thane kicks his ass while half-dead from a terminal disease 6 months overdue to kill him), whiny (he goes "Shut uuuup!" if you talk smack to him) and really, really bad at appearing threatening or clever with his dialogue, unlike Shepard who's actually a functional "Cool badass" (regardless of wether you're Paragon or Renegade) because the voice acting and writing is top notch on Shep. Not anywhere close for Kai Leng.
#16
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 02:04
KaptainKyle
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He appeared out of nowhere, sure he comes from the books but I see Mass Effect as a Video Game franchise, not a book series. So to someone who has never read any of the books he is just a random villain thrown in, we don't know his backstory and why should we have to read a book to find out? They could've put alot more into him but other than that there is no room for ninjas in the mass effect universe.
#17
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 02:05
Izhalezan
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Didn't read the books, but my time on BSN made me expect a badass, instead he was a sissy who just summoned adds, boring boss fight.
#18
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 02:07
Farbautisonn
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Kai Leng fits into the story as seamlessly as a thermobaric explosive device fits into a crystalware shop.
#19
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 02:13
Srau
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He is cliché evil full of jealousy and dumb enough to sell his soul/free will as a mean to an end.
Add to that weilding a sword to fight vs railguns and all the ninjas introduced à la Wayne's World (it was funny in the movie, it is dumb in ME3).
Add to that weilding a sword to fight vs railguns and all the ninjas introduced à la Wayne's World (it was funny in the movie, it is dumb in ME3).
#20
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 02:15
FlamingBoy
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i thought he was, less than average, i thought him and cerberus took away from the reaper plot. that would have been ok if the game was considerably longer. that however his not the case.
another problem i had with him was that he had almost zero depth at all unless you read the books (which should not be mandatory), he was just sort of a random assassin
another problem i had with him was that he had almost zero depth at all unless you read the books (which should not be mandatory), he was just sort of a random assassin
#21
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 02:16
Volus Warlord
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HellbirdIV wrote...
I don't like Kai Leng because;
1. He runs around with a katana and cyber-tech sunglasses in a setting that up until ME3 was fairly realistic in terms of combat gear. (Kinetic barriers are supposed to give you a few extra seconds of protection if you get shot, not make you invulnerable so you can charge people with a ****ing sword that, apparently, is more powerful than bullets)
2. He appeared right the **** out of nowhere two-thirds into the game and his very presence made Shepard act like a blithering idiot (He's on top of the flying car. FLIP IT OVER, IT'S A FLYING CAR) while serving no real purpose other than to introduce a "dragon" to the story (a powerful henchman to the big bad, even though there wasn't one in either ME1 or 2) that didn't need one.
3. He's protected by plot shields and his boss fight on Thessia is very poorly designed. It doesn't feel like he "defeats" you, it feels like you get cheated out of winning by bad writing.
4. He doesn't work as a nemesis to Shepard because he's inept (Thane kicks his ass while half-dead from a terminal disease 6 months overdue to kill him), whiny (he goes "Shut uuuup!" if you talk smack to him) and really, really bad at appearing threatening or clever with his dialogue, unlike Shepard who's actually a functional "Cool badass" (regardless of wether you're Paragon or Renegade) because the voice acting and writing is top notch on Shep. Not anywhere close for Kai Leng.
1.) Miri's highly realistic combat gear says hi.
2.) I agree, he could've been better integrated.
3.) Indeed.
4.) I didn't mind Leng's voice acting. I loved some of his lines.
#22
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 02:17
lillitheris
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The Kai Leng character is fine, if a little cliché (even in the books). The way he's used and the various problems with his scenes are not.
You really have to make the distinction between the two.
You really have to make the distinction between the two.
#23
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 02:17
OdanUrr
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HellbirdIV wrote...
3. He's protected by plot shields and his boss fight on Thessia is very poorly designed. It doesn't feel like he "defeats" you, it feels like you get cheated out of winning by bad writing.
Definitely my main gripe with him.
#24
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 02:21
BatmanPWNS
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I think the hate comes from the fact that his poorly executed and nothing more than just the thug who runs around fighting you and yet he doesn't seem threatening even once. I don't hate him but thats how I see it.
#25
Posté 22 avril 2012 - 02:24
CrazyBirdman
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I did not read the books and hated him just because a character like him just does not fit in this universe. I mean, a space ninja who only speaks with so called "cool" phrases and to top it off is half robot. That just does not really make any sense to me.
It would also be better if the cutscenes were better. On the Citadel I was not able to fight him in person and just watched a rather poor cutscene with him. On the second encounter I completly smashed him even on the highest difficulty and was still "defeated" because he had support with his gunship (which I could have beat like I proved in ME2). So I never felt defeated by him but was supposed to. And in my last encounter it was just incredible stupid how he was finished off. That was some of the most cheesy death I have ever seen.
To top it off I hated the way he looked.
Not a worthy servant for the Illusive Man who was just the complete opposite,
It would also be better if the cutscenes were better. On the Citadel I was not able to fight him in person and just watched a rather poor cutscene with him. On the second encounter I completly smashed him even on the highest difficulty and was still "defeated" because he had support with his gunship (which I could have beat like I proved in ME2). So I never felt defeated by him but was supposed to. And in my last encounter it was just incredible stupid how he was finished off. That was some of the most cheesy death I have ever seen.
To top it off I hated the way he looked.
Not a worthy servant for the Illusive Man who was just the complete opposite,
