229 réponses à ce sujet

[TheBRADLeyB]

 It's not that I hated Kai Leng.

I just literally had No Emotional attachment to him at all. I didn't hate/dislike/like/love or any emotional worded him.

I've read the first few books. One issue of the comics (I discovered I either hate Comics that aren't Watchmen/Walking Dead or I just think ME Comics Stink) but I had no knowledge of who Kai Leng was prior to him showing up in ME3.

I think the biggest problem with that is having played the MP Demo/Beta I already had full knowledge of the Phantoms and when you play SP and see Leng you go, "Oh it's that retarded Phantom Character that kills me constantly with her magic palm cannon and sword... Even if you destroy her sword" So to me he was just a random bad guy they based Phantoms off of.

The other problem is that since I had no knowledge/interest in who he was I felt more annoyed then intriqued when he would show up, talk some garbage and then disapear. I know the writers wanted an emotion out of me, but I didn't feel it so it made him even more of a waste of space. I had to look him up on the Wikia and then I said, 'Oh... now I understand why I didn't care...'

I also hate 'Boss Battles' and during the 'build up' you feel as though Leng is going to be one of those horribly annoying Boss Battles that you have to try 60 times to kill because it's unbalanced.

Turns out even on insanity he is pretty easy to take on.

And thank god. Nothing is worse then when you are fighting a Boss Battle and it's a CLEAR engine/contraption to just fill time like Star Wars The Force Unleashed 2's battle with the Monster in the hanging city while the blind man tells you what to do.'

Edit: I'm sorry my grammar is horrible.

Modifié par TheBRADLeyB, 22 avril 2012 - 04:33 .

[Nauks]

Read the books, didn't hate him in the game , although he came across far more interesting in the books admittedly.

What I do hate is his death and the ham-fisted way that whole cutscene was handled. "He's propably dead, never mind checking the body or even looking in that direction so he can sneak up on the Shepard"

[ShaggyWolf]

He was awesome in the books. They did a terrible job recreating that character in the game. Which is a shame because they got such a cool voice actor, and his character model was pretty cool too.

I think part of the problem with Kai Leng stems from the way Cerberus as a whole was portrayed in ME3. They were this interesting largely neutral faction that had plenty of things you could like and dislike about them. And then they took this complex, brilliantly written faction and the Illusive Man, and wrote them into generic mustache-twirling villians. Kai Leng was just another victim of that, it's why he went from being a really cool, capable assassin in the books, to an incompetent, annoying Darth Maul rip off in the game.

The writers could've done so much better too, just look at the books and ME2. It's pretty obvious they just sat down and said "Hey, a large number of our players don't like Cerberus, so let's make them bad guys that the player defeats in ME3!" Completely ignoring those of us that did like Cerberus, and was expecting better from them in ME3.

Modifié par Valadras21, 22 avril 2012 - 04:42 .

[Sebbe1337o]

He's a lot better in the books (not the latest one) than in the game, that's for sure.

[vania z]

Guy with a sword in sci-fi? Seriously? Did he escape from some superhero comics or something? 

Modifié par vania z, 22 avril 2012 - 04:46 .

[tractrpl]

Well, I played the game on insanity from the get go, never played it on any lowered difficulty. He was billed as a badass, and if the game was real, the Reapers would have won, cause he kicked my @ss five ways from sunday repeatedly. So, he was billed as a badass in the previous books, certainly was a badass in the end. I don't like how they indoctrinated Cerberus in the end, I would have liked to have used them as renegade allies, but whatevs.

Modifié par tractrpl, 22 avril 2012 - 04:47 .

[tractrpl]

vania z wrote...

Guy with a sword in sci-fi? Seriously? Did he escape from some superhero comics or something? 

Well, seeing as how I have a gun and have difficulty killing him, well, maybe that sword is appropriate.

[vania z]

tractrpl wrote...

vania z wrote...

Guy with a sword in sci-fi? Seriously? Did he escape from some superhero comics or something? 

Well, seeing as how I have a gun and have difficulty killing him, well, maybe that sword is appropriate.

Yeah, maybe it is a sword of immortality +10. Oh, wait, it is not fantasy and d'n'd:( 
No one in sane mind will go with a sword against a gun in open field in real life. Sure, you can use a knife to silently kill someone from behind, but running with a sword? seriously? <_<

Modifié par vania z, 22 avril 2012 - 05:02 .

[Sbri]

I found him boring. I was obviously supposed to find him an equal and be intimdated, but instead I felt more like, "Ok, can you do anything other then look cool and call allies to try to slow me down?" I would have liked one scene showing him being an evil bad guy. Have us sent a video of a previous job or something. Show him being ruthless somewhere. Sanctuary would have been great for that. Instead, Thane kicks his ass, he stands on my car, his gunship pins me down, and we taunt each other to death. He doesn't even feel like "The Dragon". He feels like a glorified henchman. I'm more intimidated by Miranda! She's smart as hell, and driven to succeed no matter what. I feel like she'd have finished the Salarian Councilor off with a bullet and been done with it. And I don't even really like Miranda that much.

[Saintthanksgiving]

Valadras21 wrote...

I think part of the problem with Kai Leng stems from the way Cerberus as a whole was portrayed in ME3. They were this interesting largely neutral faction that had plenty of things you could like and dislike about them. And then they took this complex, brilliantly written faction and the Illusive Man, and wrote them into generic mustache-twirling villians. Kai Leng was just another victim of that, it's why he went from being a really cool, capable assassin in the books, to an incompetent, annoying Darth Maul rip off in the game.

Yeah... This. 

I loved a lot of ME3, but the constant confrontations with Cerberus just seemed very forced.  I felt like I missed something somewhere.  I understand the basic idea in ME3 is that Cerberus was always the Cerberus from ME1, and ME2 was a bit of theater to enlist shepards help... but a lot of the confrontations just seemed to be railroading me along a plot that I didn't really understand.

As far as Kai Leng goes, I didn't hate the guy... and That was the problem.  I had no idea who he was!  He seemed to be important.  He seemed to be evil.  He seemed to hate Shepard... but I had no clue WHY.  I understand he was TIM's henchman, but he was given far too large a role for a character with absolutely no onscreen development.

again... I didn't read the books, but I didnt read the comic book that introduced Miranda and Jacob either and I didn't feel like I missed something when I met those characters in ME2.

[tractrpl]

vania z wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

vania z wrote...

Guy with a sword in sci-fi? Seriously? Did he escape from some superhero comics or something? 

Well, seeing as how I have a gun and have difficulty killing him, well, maybe that sword is appropriate.

Yeah, maybe it is a sword of immortality +10. Oh, wait, it is not fantasy and d'n'd:( 
No one in sane mind will go with a sword against a gun in open field in real life. Sure, you can use a knife to silently kill someone from behind, but running with a sword? seriously? <_<

The same could be said of Shepard in ME1, I mean how many hitpoints did my soldier have? I could basically walk into a room full of bad guys, get up and make tea, and come back and finish the area. This is an attempt at balancing, to make a tough yet fun to fight against character. Fighting a guy with a gun that runs from cover to cover would probably be even more frustrating than what we got.

[dielveio]

A few reasons:
1 - Space ninja in against firearms and goddammn ANTI-TANK weapons.
2 - Invencible in Thessia no matter what you do.

[tractrpl]

dielveio wrote...

A few reasons:
1 - Space ninja in against firearms and goddammn ANTI-TANK weapons.
2 - Invencible in Thessia no matter what you do.

Invincible because he's part of the story, but he's not invincible, he ran away. Not the same.

[vania z]

tractrpl wrote...
The same could be said of Shepard in ME1, I mean how many hitpoints did my soldier have? I could basically walk into a room full of bad guys, get up and make tea, and come back and finish the area. This is an attempt at balancing, to make a tough yet fun to fight against character. Fighting a guy with a gun that runs from cover to cover would probably be even more frustrating than what we got.

These are 2 completely different things. Combat in games in general and in RPG specifically is some simplification and stat based. You don't survive a headshot IRL(well, in most cases). And you can't restore your health quickly. It is just game mechanics, some are better at it, some are worse. Guy with a sword is just a bad art, it has nothing to do with gameplay. They can go completely fantasy, like star wars, there is nothing bad with it. It is just that 2 first games claimed to be sci-fi(not exceptionally good, but acceptable). 

On a side note, Overgrowth has pretty good realistic-looking combat.

Modifié par vania z, 22 avril 2012 - 05:27 .

[dielveio]

tractrpl wrote...

dielveio wrote...

A few reasons:
1 - Space ninja in against firearms and goddammn ANTI-TANK weapons.
2 - Invencible in Thessia no matter what you do.

Invincible because he's part of the story, but he's not invincible, he ran away. Not the same.

Yes, the plot armor, I know. But there are a number of ways to not use the plot armor and make an enemy invencible.

[CELL55]

Well there was the Deception cereal drama.
There wasn't enough of him in ME3 to make him live up to the reputation he had earned in the pre-Deception books. He was alright in ME3, but he didn't seem as cool as in the pre-Deception books

[Mike 9987]

Why should i have to read a book before playing a game to understand it?

[MrnDpty161]

Its generally a bad idea to introduce a character that players would only know about if they bought the side books to the series ( which aren't that great by the way - so why would you push pop, coffee table Sci-Fi books to people who, in ME3's case, were looking for more explosions and gun play? -- helloooo... )

And since there wasn't a gradual build up of who Kai Leng was.... I'd say 90% of the player population ( I'm guessing) was like... " Who the f ---- is this Jensenesque dude?" He gets two big scenes - and bam. The end. Just a strangely put together plot to find a reason to provide drama to the situation.

No, it wasn't the best idea for the game and only added to the problems rather than providing solutions. Don't hate the character per-say, but you don't introduce a supposed Arch Nemesis so late in the game.

[Demon Velsper]

Would have been fine if we'd killed him on the Citadel. He takes up way too much space for someone who has not been in the games till this point and his plot-armor is silly.

If he'd just been the assassin on the Citadel that would have been a nice nod to those who read the books, but after that he just gets old.

[Sipau Fade]

 Well I wasn't expecting this type of response. I read the books and I liked him. I felt the books fleshed him out so it was a nice payoff to see him in game. He sure was awesome in the books. I thought he was a great character. 

[Paulinius]

I liked the voice actor, but I wasn't fond of the character.

He was supposed to be an intimidating "badass" but I laughed when I saw him and he went down easy in both encounters even on insanity.

He could have been a worthy opponent with some design changes. But the main problem is it is very difficult to throw in a new villain half-way in the final game of a trilogy. There's no real time for build up, presentation, back story, and development.

Edit: I read Retribution but none of the other books. He seemed more interesting in the book. It's nice that they used a character from the book, but not many players have read them so it probably wasn't the best to add in a character from the books in a semi-prominent role.

Modifié par Paulinius, 22 avril 2012 - 05:55 .

[MrnDpty161]

And I think that is where the problem exists, perhaps a portion of more hard core fans went out and read all of the books but I wager less enthusiastic fans stuck with the games.

I understand its an attempt to spread the franchise by trying to encourage comic book and book reading as aside material - but I don't think enough people did this for this character to have worked in ME3.

[Paulinius]

MrnDpty161 wrote...

And I think that is where the problem exists, perhaps a portion of more hard core fans went out and read all of the books but I wager less enthusiastic fans stuck with the games.

I understand its an attempt to spread the franchise by trying to encourage comic book and book reading as aside material - but I don't think enough people did this for this character to have worked in ME3.

I agree.

Using a character that was exclusively in the comics/books/other outside material in a side mission would be good. Adding said character as a "major villian" half-way in the final game; that's not so good.

[MisterJB]

Kai Leng was, and still is, my favorite character as far as the books are concerned. When I heard he would be in ME3, I was extremely hyped. However, I feel that this negative reaction is due to mostly three things:

1-Bioware failed to properly implant him to the story.
In the books, Kai Leng actually acted like an assasion. He used the shadows from cover, had a gun and a knife as concelead weapons that he could resort to very quickly and used stealth to his advantage. But, when presented with a straigh up fight, he was still almost invincible.
In ME3, they got him right at the Citadel. He hides, appears out of nowhere, does a f*ck-ton of damage and then dissapears again. That's, basically, how an assassin is supposed to work.
But this didn't happen on Thessia. He just straight up walks to Shepard carrying a very visible sword, the boss fight with him is easy and he uses that thrice damned gunship.
As such, I think some people just don't find him intimidating. It would have been better if he had actually defeated Shepard by himself like he does with Liara and the other squadmates.

2-He has very little character. In "Retribution", it was easy to see why Kai Leng was one of TIM's favorites. He was, basically, Renegade Shepard or the Anti-Shepard. He did what he did for humanity and, despite his loyalty to Cerberus, he was willing to work with the Alliance if he had to. Much like Shepard worked with Cerberus to protect humanity.
In ME3, he just doesn't have much personality wich is a pity because I remember he had more lines in the leaked script including a conversation with Shepard where he comes off as, simply, extremely pragmatic.

3-Deception. Just...Deception. That horrendouys "novel" ruined Kai Leng's chances even before ME3 was out. Cereals, toothbrush, bah.