300 réponses à ce sujet

[legbamel]

I'd like Liara a lot better if she dropped the sweet, naive act and acted like the ambitious, dangerous person she is. It's her characterization of herself, at odds with what you see, that makes me distrust her.

An information broker as badly socialized as she pretends to be would fail. A Shadow Broker as unable to manipulate people would be exposed and taken out in a week. I see her as putting on an act to lure Shepard into her clutches and I don't trust her as far as she can throw me.

If she evolved into a Samara-level badass she could hang with me anytime. But instead she's syrupy sweet and comes across as fake, to me. You're going to flay that guy with your mind? Awesome! Wait, what's with the sucking up and that face rub thing?! [Shudder]

[pprrff]

legbamel wrote...

I'd like Liara a lot better if she dropped the sweet, naive act and acted like the ambitious, dangerous person she is. It's her characterization of herself, at odds with what you see, that makes me distrust her.

An information broker as badly socialized as she pretends to be would fail. A Shadow Broker as unable to manipulate people would be exposed and taken out in a week. I see her as putting on an act to lure Shepard into her clutches and I don't trust her as far as she can throw me.

If she evolved into a Samara-level badass she could hang with me anytime. But instead she's syrupy sweet and comes across as fake, to me. You're going to flay that guy with your mind? Awesome! Wait, what's with the sucking up and that face rub thing?! [Shudder]

That is harsh. Buy same thing can be said of a lot other squaddie. Miranda comes to mind

[gearseffect]

FERMi27 wrote...

I've made myself an assless Asari Adept in MP and don't give a damn about Liara anymore.

LMFAO, I did this same thing too, and she also is partly bare on the front side

[Tom Lehrer]

legbamel wrote...

I'd like Liara a lot better if she dropped the sweet, naive act and acted like the ambitious, dangerous person she is. It's her characterization of herself, at odds with what you see, that makes me distrust her.

An information broker as badly socialized as she pretends to be would fail. A Shadow Broker as unable to manipulate people would be exposed and taken out in a week. I see her as putting on an act to lure Shepard into her clutches and I don't trust her as far as she can throw me.

If she evolved into a Samara-level badass she could hang with me anytime. But instead she's syrupy sweet and comes across as fake, to me. You're going to flay that guy with your mind? Awesome! Wait, what's with the sucking up and that face rub thing?! [Shudder]

Thats spot on. 

You can see it best on Mars. She kiils the guys in vents with a very cold apitheic expresson only to act all sweet when she turns around and sees Shepard.

[Tom Lehrer]

pprrff wrote...

That is harsh. Buy same thing can be said of a lot other squaddie. Miranda comes to mind

We know from the start just what Miranda is and she does not try to hide it.

Modifié par Tom Lehrer, 23 avril 2012 - 06:59 .

[Tom Lehrer]

tractrpl wrote...

Sparatus wrote...

Because I don't.

She's boring, has a lackluster VA, has way too much plot relevance, built too much around her romance (which makes her come off as stalkerish.), has a forced friendship after Mass Effect, and cannot be gotten rid of.

Not a good enough reason. Basically I feel like you have to punish yourself to not include her. Playing on Insanity in ME1 and ME3 must be twice as hard without her unless you're already an adept.

Shepard can solo insanity in ME1 no matter his class. In ME3 Liara spends more time dead and her powers are only marginaly of use no matter the class. Her only worth while power is stasis and even that does not help much in most missions.

[Y3Y00]

I'm glad Liara is my favorite character, both gameplay and plot wise, because obviously the writers favor her. Oh, and Biotic death squad ftw. She's had a permanent spot in my squad ever since she was recruited.

[polor89]

You can see it best on Mars. She kiils the guys in vents with a very cold apitheic expresson only to act all sweet when she turns around and sees Shepard.
[/quote]

Soo.. what you prefered liara to be.. YO Shepard whats up? lets go kill some cerberus pricks.No liara has her cold side but also her sensitive side whats wrong with what?
She is who she is deal with it she plays a big part on shepard story whether you like it or not and she is one of the best characters on the franchise

[Unschuld]

tractrpl wrote...

In both ME1 and ME2 Liara is damn near the most useful squadmate unless you yourself are already an adept. In ME1, you just have her use singularity, all bad guys go up in the air, and you just turkey shoot. Didn't get to kill them all, you just use lift, turkey shoot. One of those shotgun wielders or krogen with regen that needs 1000 bullets to kill? Just use warp. I mean having Liara is almost like cheating, that's how much easier she makes the game merely by having her in her squad. The same goes in ME3, though I used her stasis more instead of singularity , it helped me with using headshots with my sniper rifle. 

So, how can you NOT like her? She's so damn useful, like an instant easy switch. Is that why you hate her, because she's the most useful squadmate in the game? Or do you play as an adept already and therefore don't need her? Maybe you don't like her voice actress. What is it?

Boring, monotone voice, etc. I don't hate her per se, I just don't like her... a lot. She's just "bleh" to me. Just about the only time I ever found her interesting/amusing was when she was caught in that mass effect field accusing me of being a hallucination. Everything went downhill from there. I'm not going to broach the subject of her instant "head-over-heels" stance for Shep she gets as soon as she boards the Normandy, since I'd only be rehashing what's already been said countless times before. Her position as an information broker also shows a manipulative, conniving part of her personality. I don't trust her at all, and I don't care if she's useful. That's not why I "like" people.

[legbamel]

It's that she puts on that sensitive side when she's talking to Shepard but you get the impression (at least I do) that the rest of the time she's far more calculating. Yeah, the Mars base is infiltrated by Cerberus and I totally saw you execute those guys. Good for you! Can we focus on the problem at hand and not fawn all over Shep? And I fear for Kaidan's life after that look of death she gives him. Unromanced, it's creepy as hell that she's that jealous.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Liara fans continue to show they don't get it. Not when they throw the word "hater" around in response to Liara CRITICISM. Let me reiterate: criticism =/= hating-on. In fact, "hating" should go on Arcian's winning post listing Words That BSN Does Not Know.

When you hate on someone, you're disliking them on a purely personal level. That person rubs you the wrong way and everything they do seems to reinforce your hate towards them. A character who warrants haters/hating is Jack. I know that I may like her a lot, but she will rub many other people the wrong way with her attitude and her appearance, to a point where some people will see no good in her. Other characters that would qualify would be Zaeed, or Miranda.

Liara is not in that boat, there's practically no reason to hate her in-universe. At worst, she's creepy and childish, but that's tolerable. It's out-of-universe where we have a problem. And this is the third thread we've had on the same topic within the last couple days here. In this one, as with the other two, people are coming in and saying "I don't hate Liara, but I don't like (...) about her character. That's not hating, that's an objective opinion against her. And it turns out, many fans have it, too.

Count me in on that one too. I don't hate Liara. How can I? She's a great friend to Shepard. But taking a step back and looking at it from a narrative perspective, frankly, she's a very poorly written character. And I was about to write down here specifically what it is that I don't like about her character. But, let's just say that this already-long post became a colossal beast when I took it on. For now, just understand that I have my reasons, and it sure as shiet isn't born of blind-hatred towards her.

[Emzamination]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Liara fans continue to show they don't get it. Not when they throw the word "hater" around in response to Liara CRITICISM. Let me reiterate: criticism =/= hating-on. In fact, "hating" should go on Arcian's winning post listing Words That BSN Does Not Know.

When you hate on someone, you're disliking them on a purely personal level. That person rubs you the wrong way and everything they do seems to reinforce your hate towards them. A character who warrants haters/hating is Jack. I know that I may like her a lot, but she will rub many other people the wrong way with her attitude and her appearance, to a point where some people will see no good in her. Other characters that would qualify would be Zaeed, or Miranda.

Liara is not in that boat, there's practically no reason to hate her in-universe. At worst, she's creepy and childish, but that's tolerable. It's out-of-universe where we have a problem. And this is the third thread we've had on the same topic within the last couple days here. In this one, as with the other two, people are coming in and saying "I don't hate Liara, but I don't like (...) about her character. That's not hating, that's an objective opinion against her. And it turns out, many fans have it, too.

Count me in on that one too. I don't hate Liara. How can I? She's a great friend to Shepard. But taking a step back and looking at it from a narrative perspective, frankly, she's a very poorly written character. And I was about to write down here specifically what it is that I don't like about her character. But, let's just say that this already-long post became a colossal beast when I took it on. For now, just understand that I have my reasons, and it sure as shiet isn't born of blind-hatred towards her.

Anyone who uses the term "Hater" to describe someone who disagrees with them has shown their Maturity level to be quite low and can be safely left to their blissful ignorance.

[Tom Lehrer]

polor89 wrote...

Soo.. what you prefered liara to be.. YO Shepard whats up? lets go kill some cerberus pricks.No liara has her cold side but also her sensitive side whats wrong with what?
She is who she is deal with it she plays a big part on shepard story whether you like it or not and she is one of the best characters on the franchise

She just double tapped two people and acts like nothing happened. There are three reasons this may be. Take you pick

1. She is putting an act on for Shepard
2. She is psyco
3. She does not see humans as people.

I can deal with it but Ill be sleeping with a gun as long she is around.

[Veltazar]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Liara fans continue to show they don't
get it. Not when they throw the word "hater" around in response to Liara
CRITICISM. Let me reiterate: criticism =/= hating-on. In fact, "hating"
should go on Arcian's winning post listing Words That BSN Does Not
Know.

No, not just Liara fans. Every fanclub has their own questionable members.

Tom Lehrer wrote...

polor89 wrote...

Soo.. what you prefered liara to be.. YO Shepard whats up? lets go kill some cerberus pricks.No liara has her cold side but also her sensitive side whats wrong with what?
She is who she is deal with it she plays a big part on shepard story whether you like it or not and she is one of the best characters on the franchise

She just double tapped two people and acts like nothing happened. There are three reasons this may be. Take you pick

1. She is putting an act on for Shepard
2. She is psyco
3. She does not see humans as people.

I can deal with it but Ill be sleeping with a gun as long she is around.

None of those. Reason: she's part Krogan.

Modifié par Veltazar, 24 avril 2012 - 02:12 .

[Tom Lehrer]

Veltazar wrote...

Tom Lehrer wrote...

She just double tapped two people and acts like nothing happened. There are three reasons this may be. Take you pick

1. She is putting an act on for Shepard
2. She is psyco
3. She does not see humans as people.

I can deal with it but Ill be sleeping with a gun as long she is around.

None of those. Reason: she's part Krogan.

She did not charge huadbutt them and tell Shepard he was late to the party so I think it is safe to say she is not even part Krogan.

[4stringwizard]

polor89 wrote...

Soo.. what you prefered liara to be.. YO Shepard whats up? lets go kill some cerberus pricks.No liara has her cold side but also her sensitive side whats wrong with what?
She is who she is deal with it she plays a big part on shepard story whether you like it or not and she is one of the best characters on the franchise  

^^^ This is a perfect example of why Liara and her fans have gotten so much backlash lately.   The writers force Liara on the players, and Liara fans take it as a personal insult that anyone should not like her or how she was written.  Any criticism to them = hate.  Their attitude thus becomes "She's my favorite.  She recovered Shepard's body!!  OMG you can't dislike her!!!1!" or "She's the most important character.  DEAL WITH IT!"  It only serves to reinforce the negative opinion of others.  

Modifié par 4stringwizard, 24 avril 2012 - 02:33 .

[Veltazar]

Tom Lehrer wrote...

Veltazar wrote...

Tom Lehrer wrote...

She just double tapped two people and acts like nothing happened. There are three reasons this may be. Take you pick

1. She is putting an act on for Shepard
2. She is psyco
3. She does not see humans as people.

I can deal with it but Ill be sleeping with a gun as long she is around.

None of those. Reason: she's part Krogan.

She did not charge huadbutt them and tell Shepard he was late to the party so I think it is safe to say she is not even part Krogan.

Not sure what "huadbutt"ing is exactly... (that typo actually made me chuckle it looks like such a funny word now). I was being somewhat sarcastic by the way, but my emphasis was not on headbutting but more on the lack of care mentality with taking out targets. The collected yet apathetic attitude is actually not uncommon for other characters. Aggresiveness and lack of empathy is not surprising. War changes you, and I can only imagine that facing slow and possible extinction is even more taxing to the mind. Who are the two people she "tapped" you are speaking of anyways? If you're talking about the Cerberus goons, considering Liara's daunting task as the Shadow Broker I'm not surprised she's able to make executions. It's dark messy business.

4stringwizard wrote...
^^^ This is a perfect example of why Liara and her fans have gotten so much backlash lately.   The writers
force Liara on the players, and Liara fans take it as a personal insult that anyone should not like her or how she was written.  Any criticism to them = hate.  Their attitude thus becomes "She's my favorite.  She recovered Shepard's body!!  OMG you can't dislike her!!!1!" or "She's the most important character.  DEAL WITH IT!"  It
only serves to reinforce the negative opinion of others.  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/cool.png[/smilie]

You're hyprocritical there buddy, you do know that posts such as yours is also branding non-Liara lovers much the same way? Wait no... Liara critics. There. Regardless, your "points" are just as bad, unless those quotes of yours are actually real. In polor89's defense (though he's not any better) he did say "one of the best characters".

A few days back Hackett hate threads were popping up, now all the Liara critics suddenly have the courage to speak out and are making numerous threads... This cycle will never end... my god we are all probably indoctrinated, this is exactly what the Reapers want... us fighting amongst each other.

Modifié par Veltazar, 24 avril 2012 - 04:09 .

[Tom Lehrer]

Veltazar wrote...

but my emphasis was not on headbutting but more on the lack of care mentality with taking out targets. The collected yet apathetic attitude is actually not uncommon for other characters. Aggresiveness and lack of empathy is not surprising. War changes you, and I can only imagine that facing slow and possible extinction is even more taxing to the mind. Who are the two people she "tapped" you are speaking of anyways? If you're talking about the Cerberus goons, considering Liara's daunting task as the Shadow Broker I'm not surprised she's able to make executions. It's dark messy business.

You have to remember that at this time Liara just learned the Reapers were on on Earth so there is no stress of war to make her care less. When Liara killed them these were two people. It does not matter they were trying to kill her because they are still people in her head. There is a reason Cops are taken off duty and sent to a psychologist after killing someone.

Even if the person they killed was a muderer that would have killed them a Cop gets sent to a psychologist. One of the major warning sighs that someone is unstable is apathy about killing someone and this is something Liara shows on Mars.

[Hadeedak]

Well, look at Shepard in 2 every (EVERY) time a renegade interrupt comes up.

Setting krogan on fire is A-OK! (And kind of awesome, especially given his speech, but that's not the point). Shepard is a terrible rolemodel. Even squeaky clean Shepard rolls through a pile of mercs, thugs, pirates, indoctrinated people, geth, and Cerberus lackeys by the end of the trilogy, and she doesn't seem to really feel bad about it.

Hell, if you bought Arrival.... Lololol.

[Tom Lehrer]

Hadeedak wrote...

Well, look at Shepard in 2 every (EVERY) time a renegade interrupt comes up.

Setting krogan on fire is A-OK! (And kind of awesome, especially given his speech, but that's not the point). Shepard is a terrible rolemodel. Even squeaky clean Shepard rolls through a pile of mercs, thugs, pirates, indoctrinated people, geth, and Cerberus lackeys by the end of the trilogy, and she doesn't seem to really feel bad about it.

Hell, if you bought Arrival.... Lololol.

Your Shepard might be a murderus madman but mine feels guilt for everyone he kills and is nearly sucidal even if I dont get the option to express it in game my Shepard hated Cerberus with a passion for bringing him back an was very unhappy with the Asari that gave them his body.

[Hadeedak]

Daaaang, it's amazing your Shepard's functional. I've never quite liked the Liara romance, but even TALI grenades thugs chasing her in ME1. And she's supposed to be the cute one!

[Shajar]

Nanuzsh wrote...


Same with Tali she never was in a real combat situation until joining Shepard.

You can see clearly how well she handle that granade throw when assassins try get her? It proves something about her combat skills

Liara is only good bleeding on ground, dont know if its some special Liara only AI bug, but it happens

Plus, she said that she is ashamed because she always cowers in fight while Shepard fights battle for her 

Modifié par Shajar, 24 avril 2012 - 06:51 .

[Veltazar]

Tom Lehrer wrote...

Veltazar wrote...

but my emphasis was not on headbutting but more on the lack of care mentality with taking out targets. The collected yet apathetic attitude is actually not uncommon for other characters. Aggresiveness and lack of empathy is not surprising. War changes you, and I can only imagine that facing slow and possible extinction is even more taxing to the mind. Who are the two people she "tapped" you are speaking of anyways? If you're talking about the Cerberus goons, considering Liara's daunting task as the Shadow Broker I'm not surprised she's able to make executions. It's dark messy business.

You have to remember that at this time Liara just learned the Reapers were on on Earth so there is no stress of war to make her care less. When Liara killed them these were two people. It does not matter they were trying to kill her because they are still people in her head. There is a reason Cops are taken off duty and sent to a psychologist after killing someone.

Even if the person they killed was a muderer that would have killed them a Cop gets sent to a psychologist. One of the major warning sighs that someone is unstable is apathy about killing someone and this is something Liara shows on Mars.

You've got to be kidding me... how would stress just start to kick in only once the knowledge of Earth being attacked is known? That would be the most inane statement I've read today yet. The stress of knowing your existence and lives are at stake was apparent since ME1, hell even before that considering she went on remote digs by herself and would often encounter dangers. She was the target of Saren's minions that included a Krogan Battlemaster and Geth, she lost her mother to indoctrination, learning the truth of the Prothean's extinction which foreshadowed their whole galaxy's grim fate, the event of almost getting killed by a Collector ship, losing Shepard and trying to recover his/her body, dealing with the Shadow Broker and his agents... so much has happened even before the Mars Archive. Don't tell me that she didn't have any stress beforehand. I'm actually surprised the characters didn't have a full on mental breakdown, I'd be ****ing my pants already if I were in a damn force field completely prone while a Krogan and his Geth troops wanted to drag me out dead or alive.

"It does not matter they were trying to kill her because they are still people in her head. There is a reason Cops are taken off duty and sent to a psychologist after killing someone."

What? It does matter that they were trying to kill her. How can it not? It's her life versus theirs. It's Cerberus goons for heaven's sake, an organization of ill repute that are quite unabashedly "pro-human" to make it worse. Do you not remember all the monstrocities implicated about Cerberus in ME1? Why there was so much disagreement with the VS and Shepard in ME2? The line of morality and insanity that's emphasized throughout ME3? What did you honestly think is acceptable when two Cerberus soldiers are after you? Singularity and keep running? They vented the air and killed human civilians... for a well known Asari affiliated to Shepard, her odds were probably even worse. On another note, her having a calm demeanor while taking care of those two Cerberus officers is actually necessary and is basic firearm training.You have to be collected to aim.

Your example with cop and shrink is so simplified without much reasoning that you didn't scratch the surface of psychology. Apathy is a coping mechanisn, and is a way to deal with horrors and stabilize one's self so the individual can still be able to function. Apathy is not a sign on mental instability to a degree that would inevitably equate to a cold blooded killer. You are mistaking apathy for a lack of conscience, which is what psychopaths are. No one, and I really do mean no one character in this wonderful trilogy is plain black and white. Liara still feels, the whole Thessia arc is an epitome of that.

Off hand tidbit, go read "Man's Search for Meaning" by Viktor Frankl, a psychiatrist and neurologist and more importantly, a Holocaust survivor. It'll give you an insight on human development in the face of war.

Modifié par Veltazar, 25 avril 2012 - 12:14 .

[Vasirr]

Hahaha Assless Asari! Thats funny..

[Raiil]

tractrpl wrote...

In both ME1 and ME2 Liara is damn near the most useful squadmate unless you yourself are already an adept. In ME1, you just have her use singularity, all bad guys go up in the air, and you just turkey shoot. Didn't get to kill them all, you just use lift, turkey shoot. One of those shotgun wielders or krogen with regen that needs 1000 bullets to kill? Just use warp. I mean having Liara is almost like cheating, that's how much easier she makes the game merely by having her in her squad. The same goes in ME3, though I used her stasis more instead of singularity , it helped me with using headshots with my sniper rifle. 

So, how can you NOT like her? She's so damn useful, like an instant easy switch. Is that why you hate her, because she's the most useful squadmate in the game? Or do you play as an adept already and therefore don't need her? Maybe you don't like her voice actress. What is it?

Because in ME1 she came off as a creeper, in ME2 they forced her to be my bff and was all ~*cold and powerful*~, and in ME3 they shoved her in my face, down my throat and she came up to my room uninvited.

I never used her on my vanguard, and I don't use her on my adept. I happen to think her VA is extraordinarily talented but every time Liara talks I cringe a little from the direction and the breathiness in her voice. Maybe it's because I seem to have a preference for the killers in my squad, but I preferred to bench her and go on my merry way.