300 réponses à ce sujet

[tractrpl]

Sparatus wrote...

Liara is an asari.

An entire race of pointless sexualization and fanservice.

An entire race of laziness. The Asari are all female for the same reason there are no female Krogan and Salarians shown until ME3 and no female Turians shown ever.  They just covered for their laziness this time by making it an all female race.

Modifié par tractrpl, 22 avril 2012 - 06:17 .

[SilvinC]

Jog0907 wrote...

Sparatus wrote...

Liara assembles a band of mercenaries and kills the Shadowbroker herself.

When you start becoming a bigger sue than the PC we are starting to have a problem.

without a stealth ship I might add, since mercs dont have such tech and of course neither did she.

You didn't need a stealth ship for the SB, only TIM's information.

[The Angry Hamster]

Sparatus wrote...

Liara is an asari.

An entire race of pointless sexualization and fanservice.

And I am all in favor of pointless sexualization!

Yay!

[Jog0907]

Kaelef wrote...

Sparatus wrote...

Liara assembles a band of mercenaries and kills the Shadowbroker herself.

When you start becoming a bigger sue than the PC we are starting to have a problem.

All the characters do stuff without you.  You know Garrus takes on several bands of mercenaries at Omega without you, right?

and Shep saving him from such risk is canon, if he didnt help he would have died.

[Kaelef]

Sparatus wrote...

That is within Garrus' character. He is a soldier. I have my issues with him, but he doesn't just switch personalities between games like Liara did in Mass Effect 2.

People's experiences change them in real life.  In real life, people realize they're better suited for things they hadn't previously explored.

Part of what makes Liara an interesting character is her evolution through the series.  The same is true of many of the other characters, just to a lesser degree.

[J.C. Blade]

tractrpl wrote...

Sparatus wrote...

Liara assembles a band of mercenaries and kills the Shadowbroker herself.

When you start becoming a bigger sue than the PC we are starting to have a problem.

That was a bad decision. Previously they said that the LotSB was going to be considered canon. So not playing it is like not playing ME1 or ME3. Sure, you don't need to play it, but it's assumed Shepard was still doing all those things, obviously. I guess they backslid on that.  I would have preferred that LotSB happens with Shepard as canon, regardless of whether or not you actually play it. It would have made the game more consistent and cohesive while at the same time upsetting the Liara haters even more. Brialliant.

However you view such decision LotSB is only canon that it happened, not that Shepard helped her any. I didn't waste any money on that DLC so I was happy that the game acknowledged that my Shepard had nothing to do with Liara taking over the Shadow Broker business.

[Volus Warlord]

Why I don't like Liara:

1.) She's an asari, and the interspecial nonsense is, well, nonsense.

2.) Unrivaled plot armor for a rather weak character.

3.) Ruthlessly over-emphasized, by both Bioware and her fans.

4.) She's an asari.

[tractrpl]

Sparatus wrote...

Kaelef wrote...



All the characters do stuff without you.  You know Garrus takes on several bands of mercenaries at Omega without you, right?

That is within Garrus' character. He is a soldier. I have my issues with him, but he doesn't just switch personalities between games like Liara did in Mass Effect 2.

Shy, nerdy archealogist ---> badass information broker is not logical character progression.

I agree, she was already a badass in ME1 with her super biotic powers. She just became less academic and got a boob job. I think this is what EA wanted. I still don't hate her, though.

[Awookie]

tractrpl wrote...

Awookie wrote...

Plot armor.

Same reason why most Liara haters also hate Kai Leng.

I don't understand that. If you could kill anyone at anytime how could you have a cohesive story? You have to have at least some characters that never die, at least until the end.

The difference is that unlike other squadmates, she can't die.  And she appears in all 3 games, even if only temporarily in the 2nd game. 

Kaidan and Ashley can die.  Wrex can be killed.  In ME2, Tali and Garrus can die if you screw up, along with the other 10 squadmates.  No other character has a 100% chance of survival.  

The Angry Hamster wrote...

 Yea, but you just gotta love those Asari dreadlocks.
[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/w00t.png[/smilie]

Kirk, out.

Where no man has gone before. 

Modifié par Awookie, 22 avril 2012 - 06:29 .

[Lozark]

Well, I already play an adept and adeptShepard is a way better adept than Liara, so having her on my team is redundant. I find her monotone in ME1 really grating, and after ME1 she comes off as a crazy stalker. Her relevance to the plot is forced, she manages to out-perfect even Shepard (and this is my power fantasy, dag nabbit), and the way the writers are in love with her really irritates me. She's also the only character in ME3 who forces herself into the party twice. Twice, when her abilities throw my party balance out of whack because I play adeptShep.

All in all, on her own I just find her aggressively boring, but when she gets as much spotlight as she does it becomes downright irritating.

And I just don't like the asari in general.  Aethyta is the one exception.

Modifié par Lozark, 22 avril 2012 - 06:28 .

[SilvinC]

Sparatus wrote...

Kaelef wrote...



All the characters do stuff without you.  You know Garrus takes on several bands of mercenaries at Omega without you, right?

That is within Garrus' character. He is a soldier. I have my issues with him, but he doesn't just switch personalities between games like Liara did in Mass Effect 2.

Shy, nerdy archealogist ---> badass information broker is not logical character progression.

I've heard people often switch to new careers because their lives change or new circumstances demand it

[MrnDpty161]

I don't know what anyone expected here, regardless of how many characters there was, its impossible to keep such a thing equal, otherwise, it requires more dialogue, more writing, and more plot than a video game should probably attempt. You would start going into the inter-active digital novel at that point.

Of course there was going to be a few characters chosen to have more plot around them, it had to center and tie up somewhere in regards to cannon. Its obvious to me that Liara was heavily leaned into as far as cannon coming from ME1 - ME3. It was a lot harder to stay with Ashley due to the inconsistency and the outright back-staging of her character in ME2. I mean Liara was the one that fought for your dead body and then had you rise again.... what did Ashley do? Not much of anything except cry...and then later on, accuses you of being a Cerberus Husk.

Then in ME3 --- well wow. How did you all like that kick in the quad? Most of ME2's Li's vanished into cameos...but low and behold! Liara is in your squad and so is Ashley at some point if you don't blow her away.

So there's always cannon to be found. A choice was made for you --- it was all in the details.

[Pax of Doom]

SilvinTT56 wrote...

Do Liara and Kai Leng haters also hate Joker, Hackett, Aria, Varric, Leliana, Morrigan and Isabela?

I just had a bowl of cereal, so right now I feel kinship to Kai Leng.

Joker: am quite pissed at him.  First off, his loyalty to a dead ship killed Shepard.  Had he abandoned, at Shepard's order, then that pesky death thing would not have happened.  Then after reuniting with him, what does he say?  "I saw you get spaced", a joke said in the same tone as a youtube comment about someone taking a softball to the quad.  Supposedly Joker apologized for it in the 3rd game, I don't remember seeing it.  And we won't mention the ending sequence.

Hackett & Aria are set up to be powerful and in charge.  They're more like Anderson - mission and info dumps.  We don't see them in action, opening of ME3 as exception.

[Kaelef]

Sparatus wrote...

That is logical character development. Wrex doesn't suddenly shift roles out of nowhere.

Right. So going from being a nobody thug to ruler of your entire race is a lot more logical than any of the other stories in the game.  Going from being a nobody soldier to savior of the entire galaxy is totally logical.

You don't have to make up excuses for not liking a character.  So she just rubs you the wrong way -- fine.  I felt similarly about Ashley.  I'm sure all of Liara's perceived transgressions wouldn't have been an issue for you if you hadn't started off disliking her personality in the first place.

[Bat130]

Watch it if you love ME

[Kaelef]

SilvinTT56 wrote...
I've heard people often switch to new careers because their lives change or new circumstances demand it

Yeah, I'm actually more surprised when I meet someone who hasn't made a big career or life change these days.

[Undead Han]

Sparatus wrote...

Liara assembles a band of mercenaries and kills the Shadowbroker herself.

When you start becoming a bigger sue than the PC we are starting to have a problem.

Garrus led a small team of mercenaries (literally squad sized) on Omega, running circles around some of the largest and most powerful mercenary gangs in the Terminus.

Tali becomes an Admiral despite being in her early 20s, and despite not having held any previous military rank that we know of.

Miranda was project head for a research project that produced the greatest medical breakthrough in the history of mankind.

Jacob saved the Council and much of the Citadel from Batarian terrorists.

Mordin helps create a new and more potent strain of the genophage, later helps cure it if you let him, cures a plague on Omega created by the Collectors, and discovers an effective countermeasure against the Reaper immobilization drones.

Kasumi brings down a gunship with ridiculous ninja acrobatics.

Ashley goes from Gunnery Chief to Lt. Commander in the blink of an eye, and becomes the second human Spectre.

Kaidan goes from Lieutenant to Major in the blink of an eye, heads an Alliance biotic special operations unit, and becomes the 2nd human Spectre.

Thane saves a councillor from one of the galaxy's deadlies assassins, despite being terminally ill.

Wrex unites the warring clans on Tuchanka by a combination of military force and diplomacy, effectively becoming king of the Krogan.

Ect, ect, ect.


Liara's accomplishments are no more ridiculous or Mary Sueish than any of the other squadmates. They're all pretty much the League of Extraordinary Gentleman. (or Gentlewomen)

If a player complains about Liara becoming shadowbroker, yet turns a blind eye to all of the above, they're applying different standards to the characters. In short, they're basically saying, "I don't like this character so I refuse to suspect disbelief, even though I suspend disbelief when other squadmates are given equally amazing accomplishments."

Modifié par Han Shot First, 22 avril 2012 - 06:36 .

[Reorte]

SilvinTT56 wrote...

Reorte wrote...

I don't have a problem with Liara that much (although often her voice acting is iffy at best), it's just that she's too omnipresent in ME3 at the expense of other squadmates who I prefer (predominantly Tali and Garrus).

The ME2 squadmates...I can understand the frustation
The VS or Tali...sure
But Garrus??? He has more banter than any other character in the game!

So? Even if the game was 1000 hours long and the only squadmates in it were Tali and Garrus there wouldn't be enough of them.

[tractrpl]

MrnDpty161 wrote...

I don't know what anyone expected here, regardless of how many characters there was, its impossible to keep such a thing equal, otherwise, it requires more dialogue, more writing, and more plot than a video game should probably attempt. You would start going into the inter-active digital novel at that point.

Exactly! Bravo! I'll just mention that it's canon, not cannon. One's related to stories, the other's a gun.

[MrnDpty161]

I had no problem due to the fact that I chose Liara as the Li because I found that story/plot wise, it made better sense for Shepard to do so --- things just felt as they should have been. 2nd would have been Tali Zhora, because it seems she was also chose as a plan B plot lead.

As far as team use? Ehh... I guess. I really didn't see too much difference in terms of who was useful and who wasn't concerning my team, the battles neither change nor were they any harder nor not hard depending upon who you chose. Quite frankly, I think it was one of the illusions of the game... you really could chose whoever you wished.