159 réponses à ce sujet

[robertm2]

lillitheris wrote...

robertm2 wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

robertm2 wrote...

because people didnt like the ending so they want to nitpick at every single thing in the game they possibly can because the ending bit is getting old and bioware is addressing the issue. so now people want to skim through every single issue no matter how minor it is so they can find something else to hate.

Should this be read as your Shepard being so bad at his/her trade (or you being such a terrible player) that you would not have been able to kill Kai Leng if he wasn't invulnerable? You had to cheat and enable god mode in the last fight on the Cerberus, didn't you?

im have no idea how you came to this conclusion but no. it should be read as people whining about every little thing because the ending thing has passed more or less. and no i didnt cheat on me3 i play on xbox and i beat it on insanity my first playthrough. just because you had issues with him doesnt mean other people had to cheat to win. his last fight was a joke the only parts of that game that were challenging were parts with ravagers/harvasters and the fight with the reaper.

So, if you weren't terrible enough to need to cheat to win Kai Leng…why didn't you beat him on the Citadel? He was right there, unprotected. Why didn't you take him out? Or Thessia?

he escaped on the citadel and on thessia it was part of the story. saren escaped on virmire nobody complained. there are alot of games with recurring villians who dont die the first time and nobody says a negative thing about it. this just proves my point that kai leng is the next cool thing to complain about in me3. people want to hate the game so they will playthrough until the seek out every single "plot hole" and fallacy that could possible exist. the same people who said they would never play it again are playing it just to find something else to whine about on forums. he wasnt the best villian in video game history but he wasnt the main villian either. not every game needs epic boss battles.

[lillitheris]

robertm2 wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

robertm2 wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

robertm2 wrote...

because people didnt like the ending so they want to nitpick at every single thing in the game they possibly can because the ending bit is getting old and bioware is addressing the issue. so now people want to skim through every single issue no matter how minor it is so they can find something else to hate.

Should this be read as your Shepard being so bad at his/her trade (or you being such a terrible player) that you would not have been able to kill Kai Leng if he wasn't invulnerable? You had to cheat and enable god mode in the last fight on the Cerberus, didn't you?

im have no idea how you came to this conclusion but no. it should be read as people whining about every little thing because the ending thing has passed more or less. and no i didnt cheat on me3 i play on xbox and i beat it on insanity my first playthrough. just because you had issues with him doesnt mean other people had to cheat to win. his last fight was a joke the only parts of that game that were challenging were parts with ravagers/harvasters and the fight with the reaper.

So, if you weren't terrible enough to need to cheat to win Kai Leng…why didn't you beat him on the Citadel? He was right there, unprotected. Why didn't you take him out? Or Thessia?

he escaped on the citadel and on thessia it was part of the story.

Sounds like you just weren't good enough to touch him so it only makes sense he got away. Did he even have to use his invulnerability bubble? You probably didn't do enough damage for that.

[robertm2]

lillitheris wrote...

robertm2 wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

robertm2 wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

robertm2 wrote...

because people didnt like the ending so they want to nitpick at every single thing in the game they possibly can because the ending bit is getting old and bioware is addressing the issue. so now people want to skim through every single issue no matter how minor it is so they can find something else to hate.

Should this be read as your Shepard being so bad at his/her trade (or you being such a terrible player) that you would not have been able to kill Kai Leng if he wasn't invulnerable? You had to cheat and enable god mode in the last fight on the Cerberus, didn't you?

im have no idea how you came to this conclusion but no. it should be read as people whining about every little thing because the ending thing has passed more or less. and no i didnt cheat on me3 i play on xbox and i beat it on insanity my first playthrough. just because you had issues with him doesnt mean other people had to cheat to win. his last fight was a joke the only parts of that game that were challenging were parts with ravagers/harvasters and the fight with the reaper.

So, if you weren't terrible enough to need to cheat to win Kai Leng…why didn't you beat him on the Citadel? He was right there, unprotected. Why didn't you take him out? Or Thessia?

he escaped on the citadel and on thessia it was part of the story.

Sounds like you just weren't good enough to touch him so it only makes sense he got away. Did he even have to use his invulnerability bubble? You probably didn't do enough damage for that.

nice trolling. do you have anything intelligent to say or are you just here for the purpose of trying to get a negative reaction out of people? your only proving my point that people have no real reason do dislike him they just want to hate the game.

[OriginalNameGuy]

Well, I have never read the books so Leng was new to me. I had no idea what to expect from his character and when I went online all I saw was the cereal jokes that I never understood until I heard about Deception. Anyway, I got the vibe that he is supposed to be a badass, but gameplay wise it is really disappointing that he is no more challenging than your average phantom. He is a boss, so where is the cheap stuff? He would be more annoying if he used his pistol more and it was always funny to hear him call Shepard slow while I zoom all over the screen via biotic charge.

[DazenCobalt17]

Saren was awesome as a Villan. Leng reminded me of a middle school kid trying to over compensate. I mean for !#$%'s sake who sends an email to their adversary taunting them!?

[Slymandro]

Because Saren wasn't a space ninja.

It felt like every time Kai Leng was on screen it was for a cutscene so he could dance around being awesome. Everything he said or did seemed like he was trying way to hard to be cool. I think Kai Leng was an incredibly overdeveloped minor character.

Who is he? Why does he serve the Illusive man? What's driving him? None of these questions matter or impact the universe. He's just a really crazy ninja assassin who with something to prove.

They should have either A) Never named him, kept him as mysterious as possible or Actually have him contribute more being IE's attack dog.

[Tleining]

robertm2 wrote...

he escaped on the citadel and on thessia it was part of the story. saren escaped on virmire nobody complained. there are alot of games with recurring villians who dont die the first time and nobody says a negative thing about it. this just proves my point that kai leng is the next cool thing to complain about in me3. people want to hate the game so they will playthrough until the seek out every single "plot hole" and fallacy that could possible exist. the same people who said they would never play it again are playing it just to find something else to whine about on forums. he wasnt the best villian in video game history but he wasnt the main villian either. not every game needs epic boss battles.

The Problem to me was how it was done. With Saren it was a pretty equal fight, one Cutscene and then he is running away.
With Kai Leng you have Thane screwing up (why did he pose? Just shoot Kai already), then Shepard standing around and finally Thane going in close (ugh). After that the Scene on the Car, again, what the Hell? If Kai would have disappeared after wounding Thane it would have been alright. But no, he had to appear again.
Next the Scene on Thessia. Remember on the Citadel? Fighting against 3 is fun!!! to him. I hit him twice on Thessia and he crouched down in the Middle of the Room to "Recharge his Shields". W!T!F!???

It was just too much. Have him get away once. Fine! Have him get away every time? COME ON!!!
Have him survive a Fight with the Support of a Gunship? Enough already.

[fainmaca]

Kai Leng is poorly implemented and is encountered with greater frequency than Saren, making his plot armour much more irritating. Saren gets away from the player once, meaning you are more determined to get him the next time you meet. Kai Leng keeps using Cutscene Powers To The Max and Shepard's Cutscene Incompetence to get away. This frustrates the player and removes the menace of the character rather than reinforcing it.

That and the fact that he has no dialogue to establish himself other than a bunch of cliched taunts. Really, to be any good he needed introducing in ME2 at some point during your dealings with Cerberus.

[parrmi22]

People would like Leng more if his boss fights weren't so laughably awful. Then again, when has ME ever had a good boss fight? Saren and the Human-Reaper were silly; Vasir and the SD cool but not classic. Otherwise, I liked Leng, though I liked him better in Retribution.

[grey_wind]

The problem is that he was really not fleshed out enough, and he was little more than a named mook. It's hard to care about a character like that, and the waste of all his potential is just sad.

[DazenCobalt17]

parrmi22 wrote...

People would like Leng more if his boss fights weren't so laughably awful. Then again, when has ME ever had a good boss fight? Saren and the Human-Reaper were silly; Vasir and the SD cool but not classic. Otherwise, I liked Leng, though I liked him better in Retribution.

silly? how so? I'm just curious because I've never heard from a person on why they thought they were.

[lillitheris]

robertm2 wrote...

nice trolling. do you have anything intelligent to say or are you just here for the purpose of trying to get a negative reaction out of people? your only proving my point that people have no real reason do dislike him they just want to hate the game.

I'm trying to get you to understand that the reason Kai Leng scenes are so reviled isn't “nitpicking everything”, it's that they're genuinely bad. They take player agency away.

If the player was free to act, they'd never just stand there. Kai Leng would be a wet stain on the wall about 5 seconds into the Citadel scene. The developers didn't want this, so they chose the laziest, dumbest possible way to achieve it.

If you go back a bit, you see my suggestion on how to do it from earlier:

self said

So, solution? Instead of just Kai Leng in his invulnerability bubble,
the scene should be orchestrated so that there's a reason why we can't
engage Leng. For example, just as we find the Councilor, there's some
rumble and an YMIR and some Cerberus troops storm from the ramp. The
Councilor runs a little further to hide, while the Cerberus have the
team pinned for a brief time. Optionally Thane could appear and go to
the Councilor and maybe engage one lone Cerberus dude. Then, when we're
closing on the last Cerbs, go to cutscene with us on the other side of
the room, and Kai Leng emerging from the shadow behind the Councilor,
either to stab him, or Thane jumping in front of the blade at the last
moment. Then Kai Leng takes off, and control returns.

Do you agree that it would have been much more realistic to do it that way rather than shoot a cone of idiocy on your entire squad and Thane to boot?

[The Milky Waver]

Saren was introduced as a proper antagonist who you could learn about from Anderson and other characters. Kai Leng was just some new assassin guy that barely anyone knows about who apparently is very important and was introduced poorly, plus he killed Thane or Kirrahe. 

[Merchant2006]

Electavire wrote...

Because Saren is sexually attractive,

I ejaculated when I heard his first line in ME1 as he slowly slithered the words "Nihlus" from his mouth.

Oh im so wet.

[Captain Cornhole]

Modifié par Captain Cornhole, 23 avril 2012 - 05:32 .

[Armass81]

I kinda feel the crap ending has given some people free pass to criticize the whole game, with some nitpicky comments that would make Smudboy seem tame in comparison. Some people actually think ME3 is a bad game, when its nothing like that. A bad game would be a game like Mindjack or Superman 64. Me3 is actually a pretty good game, if you hadnt noticed.

ME2 had a crap story, a plot that didnt advance the story at all, but most of the people dont care.All they do here is praise the game despite its massive flaws in this.

Modifié par Armass81, 23 avril 2012 - 12:35 .

[Spikko]

Konfined wrote...

Saren was the primary antagonist of Mass Effect, Kai Leng is a named mook. This is a terrible comparison.

This. I don't think they were meant to have the same impact on the story.
I think the Darth Vader/Maul comparison is fine in this case.

[Vapaa]

Saren on Virmire was just as bad as Kai Leng on Thessia; you shoot him during one minute then plays the lengendary Shepard's cutscene incompetence

At least on Thessia you knew Kai Leng was cheating, but Saren on Virmire was jsut plain bad: you reduce his health bar to shreads and then he wins....WTF ?

Modifié par Vapaä, 23 avril 2012 - 12:35 .

[Giantdeathrobot]

There's only one encounter in which Saren could be killed, on Virmire where he basically takes Shepard by surprise and then pins him/her down with biotics while he stands on his flying thingy. It's a far cry from Kai Leng surviving things he should not have, such as his tussle with Thane (where he is exposed to Shepard for several seconds. Shep is a crack shot, there should not have been any problems), his stunt on the car (it's a flying car! Just make it do barrel rolls or something), and of course the entire farce on Thessia (saved by the lens flare of an helicopter? Shepard sucker punches Yagh for a living, and he's stopped by a goddamn lens flare? Plus, Shepard just looking at him lenghtily take the VI while he has a thousand ways of killing the bastard on the spot?). Add to the fact that he's just not that good of a villan (basically a glorified henchmen, completely forgetable if not for his e-mail after Thessia)) and is pretty goofy looking (I blame the visor) and there you have it.

[ackalaya3]

Saren was presented as the main villain up until Virmire, and as such we expected him to be tough as nails. Kai Leng on the other hand is some Naruto-wannabe who not only sticks out in the Mass Effect universe like a sore thumb, but also has little to no exposition. He rarely ever talked, and when he did it was flat, short and generally uninteresting. He was one of the Illusive Man's grunts, no better than the average Assault Trooper. If they'd explained him, given him some personality, or at least made him a tad bit more believable in the setting, I doubt many people would have had a problem.

[formshifter]

tractrpl wrote...

Yeah no sh*t. In ME1, Saren has a good character, but he just hovers around and lets you pump him full of lead, easier than a thresher maw. Kai Leng, now he's as tough to kill and kills you as easily as a thresher maw. A true boss. He was never meant to be a deep character. In the books he's always just a sick son of a b*tch and a threat. He delivered on his promises.

Saw this now and have to ask . . . what?

Playing through on hardcore he didn't HIT anyone on my squad. He's so esay it's ridiculous. Saren was quite a bit harder if you played on the higher difficulties (used Carnage and biotics). It usually took a while to whittle him down, at least. Leng never seemed dangerous so much as coddled. The other thing, Saren SURVIVED the fight through plot armor. Heck, he even RETREATS after you stagger him and he sees your squad starting to get up and aim (Remember, he could make barriers and had shields on top of that to escape).

Leng brags about DEFEATING YOU TWICE, when both times he was losing the fight BADLY and then you got railroaded. (I would have shot his head off when Thane *****-slapped him, Flipped the car over to drop him a few hundred feet, or at least SHOT HIM IN THE FACE when he dropped his barrier to twirl his sword for several seconds before wrecking your car, and finally, KILLED HIM ON THESSIA in under 30 seconds if it weren't for the railroading).

Modifié par formshifter, 23 avril 2012 - 01:37 .

[NoUserNameHere]

People, people: it's a matter of charactarization.

Saren is Darth Vader. When you face him, even at a forced draw, it's a big deal.

Kai Leng is Darth Maul. When he kicks your ass regardless, you wonder who the hell this guy is and why he's so overpowered.

[d-boy15]

I'm surprise no one brought Tela Vasir when we talk about how bad Kai Leng is...

both have so much in common in boss fight, Vasir get away when you hurt her at some point
and return when her back up are wipe out. the different between them is Vasir a spectre and
she can really hurt you.

also, she can make herself interesting in only a first half of DLC,carried an assault rifle with a
cool armor and know how to use biotic.

Modifié par d-boy15, 23 avril 2012 - 01:33 .

[veramis]

Saren didn't throw elementary school taunts at Shepard...

/end thread.

[Zuka999]

Because Saren was smart enough not to use a sword, which has been obsolete for centuries even today?

I thought Kai Leng was pretty cool prior to Thessia. His "can you guess the final chapter? It ends with your death!" taunt was cheesy as all hell, but I dug it. Regardless of how he played out, they let you kill him in a really satisfying way. So, whatever.