159 réponses à ce sujet

[Silhouett3]

robertm2 wrote...

he escaped on the citadel and on thessia it was part of the story. saren escaped on virmire nobody complained. there are alot of games with recurring villians who dont die the first time and nobody says a negative thing about it. this just proves my point that kai leng is the next cool thing to complain about in me3. people want to hate the game so they will playthrough until the seek out every single "plot hole" and fallacy that could possible exist. the same people who said they would never play it again are playing it just to find something else to whine about on forums. he wasnt the best villian in video game history but he wasnt the main villian either. not every game needs epic boss battles.

If they were whining about nothing I'd suspect they were really fans.

Difference is how blank the complainments are now; complain because now the writers must be blamed. In ME1 characters were walking codex entries but writers was't blamed for it. In ME2 we were forced to work for Cerberus but  writers was't blamed for it. They were imperfect and we still cheered for them. We had good reasons to do so. If we were to blame writers, again we have to have good reasons, ending of ME3 is one. I never liked Tali; but never cried out loud "stupid writerz retcon her outta existence" either.

[shadowreflexion]

Salfin wrote...

Kai Leng appears at the end of the story out of  nowhere. He doesn't seem to have any real motivations, he doesn't appear to have much character at all. His dialogue is almost nonexistant, and your only real interaction with him is shooting him.

Saren is set up as your rival carefully through the first ME game. He has clear motivation, character, and passion. He believes in what he is doing. He is trying to save the galaxy, even indoctronated as he is.

Saren is a tragic character.

What is Kai leng? Your guess is as good as mine.

Best character anaylsis I've read in a while. Concise and straight to the point.

[billywaffles]

Kai Leng is just a weapon, like you said. The character has no personality nor motivations. You could assume he was a really strange guy prior to being indoctrinated. I am fine with that because the real antagonist is TIM.

The big difference is that KL is just a weapon, while Saren is a charismatic leader.

[MysticSpace]

Salfin wrote...

Kai Leng appears at the end of the story out of  nowhere. He doesn't seem to have any real motivations, he doesn't appear to have much character at all. His dialogue is almost nonexistant, and your only real interaction with him is shooting him.

Saren is set up as your rival carefully through the first ME game. He has clear motivation, character, and passion. He believes in what he is doing. He is trying to save the galaxy, even indoctronated as he is.

Saren is a tragic character.

What is Kai leng? Your guess is as good as mine.

Is there a difference in Badass Wanna be and Wanna be Badass?  I don't know either better check TVtropes.

Modifié par MysticSpace, 23 avril 2012 - 09:46 .

[MysticSpace]

IElitePredatorI wrote...

Because Saren is Badass:



Kai Leng well... He just fails...

Saren looks like he's almost a Maurader in that pic and that totally badass!

[bahamutomega]

get an M-98 Widow X (upgrade it fully).  shoot a Phantom with it.  in the head.  then shoot Kai Leng.  in the head.

the only things that survive a headshot with my M-98 Widow X (as an infiltrator) are the Banshees, Brutes, Geth Primes and the Atlas mechs.

Kai Leng was turned into TIM's bastard child - TIM wanted Shepard, but when Shepard went rogue, TIM went to the only other comparable N7 operative he had on his payroll.  TIM's line in the video clips on Kronos Station lend evidence to this mentality - "You really do remind me of Shepard..."

would i resent this as Kai Leng (having been written so well in the books)?  yes.  doesn't make up for the lousy script BioWare made up for him.  the plot armor just adds insult (i can kill just about everything in one shot except him) to injury (not just once, but 3 times - Citadel, Thessia, Kronos).  on the Citadel, i can almost accept it.  but for the Renegades who may well have shot the Salarian Councilor (and i'm paragon - i was ready to do it myself just because of the STG base stupidity) just to get to Kai Leng, it would be...  frustrating.  on Thessia, it was plain infuriating - i survived a close encounter with a God-damned Reaper and having some ******-poor shots from the quarian fleet shoot at me, but i can't stand up to him?  no - Thessia was plot armor at it's worst.  the Kronos station plot armor was the writers covering their asses - the plot armor from Thessia coundn't just disappear, could it?

Saren has plot armor.  the writers simply cut to a cutscene before the plot armor becomes truly, painfully obvious.  in ME, one shot kills were pretty rare, especially on higher difficulties.  Saren's plot armor kicked in automatically by beginning the cutscene after a certain damage threshold had been achieved.

there's also the fact that it only occured once in ME - Virmire.  regardless of whether you killed him or convinced him to pull the trigger himself on the Citadel, Saren was dead when Sovereign took complete control and you fought Terminator-Saren (that's what the look reminded me of).

[BobbyDylan]

Saren, while tough, is beatable. If you win, he flees. The writers are not making you fight him with armour that negates damage. While they're both protected by the plot, Saren's protection is cleaverly wheved into the story and makes sense. No one notices it.

Leng, goes to "recharge" his shields in the open, while taking fire. It's badly done. Very badly done. Also, Shep is a retard around leng, letting him get away,and kill his friends. Saren took a fist to the face from Shep.

[XXIceColdXX]

SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

As people have stated it is because Kai Leng has no character which is a shame considering how well written he is in the novels. Thus he appear to simply be a reskinned Phantom, something the player can shoot at without any real purpose behind it.

Id disagree.

Retribution : Not too badly written, although we don't learn much about him.
Deception: Poorly portrayed. Was annoying and better remembered for eating Andersons cereal than being badass.

[Random Geth]

MattFini wrote...

BioWare thought Kai Leng would be the Boba Fett of ME. #Whoops

A character who stood around and did nothing and was then killed by accident?  Yeah, Kai Leng was a bit too useful to be Boba Fett.

[Leafs43]

Kai Leng was fine.

Maybe they could have played up the rival card a bit more and removed the ninja sword and made a better last fight, but other than that he was not the main focus of the story at all.

Modifié par Leafs43, 24 avril 2012 - 05:31 .

[iSpider-Man]

Saren was an established antagonist in ME  while Roided Nightwing is just presented with no explanation in ME3

Modifié par iSpider-Man, 24 avril 2012 - 05:33 .

[Avalon Aurora]

Another problem I had with Kai Leng besides plot armor is that he could not have believeably passed the N training program. This program includes leadership tests and training. Kai Leng displays serious lack of leadership talents. He also fails common sense, let alone showing any real talent in tactics or strategy. The only way I'd believe he used to be N7 is if his indoctrination levels are higher than Saren's were, making him super stupid.

[Ad_Hoc]

AvagerShepard wrote...

Oh dear, none of you seem to understand my question. I didn't like Kai Leng so much either (though I do not hate him as many of you seem to do), I just wonder why it is OK for Saren to have a plot armor and not for Kai Leng. You know, for me it's also annoying that he is just some no name that comes from nowhere and can own one of the best soldiers in the galaxy, but it is pretty obvious that some characters needs to have some plot armor sometimes.

Because when Saren loses he loses, and retreats, you comlete your misson on Vermire.

When Kai Leng loses he  wins you because of the plot armor.

[tractrpl]

AvagerShepard wrote...

 I've notieced that some people are really pissed off about Kai Leng having a "plot armor", meaning you can't kill him om Thessia. Well, guess what? You couldn't kill Saren on Virmire either and no one complains about that.

Wtf is wrong with some of you?I know, I am pissed about the endings also. I am pissed about the lack of Harbinger and about the potential that ME3 had and that wasn't used. But guys! That's no reason to bash EVERYTHING in the game. I don't think Kai Leng was so bad, sure, I would like to have an epic boss battle with Harbinger instead of him, but I really don't think it's Kai Lengs fault that that the game was rushed. 

Ha! Yeah, that's classic. Saren must have had "plot armor" 

[PrinceLionheart]

Saren is actually a fully fleshed out character while Kai Leng is a completely one-dimensional character who's only purpose is to look cool.

Saren and Shepard only have one altercation before the final boss fight. And during that altercation, while Saren has the upperhand, Shepard manages to hold his own in the end. Kai Leng completely pulls off superhuman feats, completely unscathed. His feats are also inconsisted, getting beat by a half-dead Drell at one point.

Saren shows signs of weakness throughout the game. Kai Leng never does.

Shepard loses several dozen  IQ points in order to prop up Kai Leng's "badassness." Shepard, with a high enough morality, was essentially on equal grounds with Saren. 

Modifié par PrinceLionheart, 24 avril 2012 - 06:18 .

[DarthSyphilis59]

did someone say saren!? I just creamed my pants!

[halbert986]

because the sarren fight flowed. Kai lengs fight went like this.

Really a sword? Garrus, Ashley drop him with widows. Ok.. he's recharging maybe I need to attack him despite the gunship and it's flashlight. Easy enough to position myself at an angle where it can't hit me... Hmm he doesn't appear to be taking any damage. Maybe I can blow up the gunship. Nope. Ohh a cutscene... I lost? Just like that..

All in all he seemed like an easy guy to kill. The only reason the fight was difficult was the stupid gunship. Saren on the other hand gave you incentive to take cover. Not to mention you still blew up his base.

[Wes Finley]

You have one fight with Saren, on Virmire, and it's a balls out boss fight, with a hovering platform and (biotic) fireballs, all the good stuff.

...and then Saren bails. He doesn't make any apologies about it, he's just got more important **** to do.

All of this is framed with the revelation of Sovereign, and Saren's position of trying to broker a union between Reapers and Organic life, to which Shepard is a serious threat, while resisting indoctrination. Massive story twists, character growth, drama... all the good stuff.

What's the signifigance of the fight(s) with Kai Leng? What's going on that makes it important, aside from "OH SNAP SHEPARD, DOODS A NINJA, FIGHT HIM". Kai Leng as a character, as something more than GENERIC PHANTOM #42.,doesn't exist without forced cutscene shenanigans and that silly email, so he's weak.

Modifié par Wes Finley, 24 avril 2012 - 06:55 .

[Zamnil Blackaxe]

Saren was presented in a way that made him look like a credible, threatening villain. Kai Leng was presented in a manner that made him look like a bumbling, prancing fairy, not the underhanded, cheating bad-ass that we see from the books. The gameplay sequences with Leng are a damned joke and are frankly insulting as far as boss fights go.

[DamonD7]

"Shepard,

I'm sorry I didn't kill you on Virmire. I totally will next time, though, because I'm all awesome and stuff. There's no way you can handle what the S-Dawg is packing.

Yours,

Saren."

[Oransel]

Oh, Saren, Saren, Saren... Yeah, baby, yeah, Saren... Yeah... Saren... OH YEAH... So good... Sorry, have to clean the PC screen

[Joush]

Saren is much, much better handled.

In the Vermire fight, Shepard damn near has him on the ropes before he flees, base explodeing around him. No retarded boss fight like on Thessia with Kai Lang where no matter what happens you clearly lose to someone with no basic grasp of tactics or fashion sense.

[Hogge87]

AvagerShepard wrote...

 I've notieced that some people are really pissed off about Kai Leng having a "plot armor", meaning you can't kill him om Thessia. Well, guess what? You couldn't kill Saren on Virmire either and no one complains about that.

While I do agree with you that people are complaining too much about things they shouldn't, and indeed things that existed in the first two games, I have to say this.

Forget about Thessia. I played through the Citadel stage yesterday, and I think it's really stupid how neither Shepard nor his two squad mates shoot at Kai Leng while Thane is fighting him on his own. They's standing RIGHT THERE!