43 réponses à ce sujet

[HarlequinDream]

Now, this is probably just me reading too much into things.

However, when you have your conference with Cailin, Duncan, and Loghain at the beginning, Cailin very specifically says he wants your (very, very new) Gray Warden and Alistair at the tower. Now, it's possible he knows you're the newest (though there are others with the same experience as Alistair, we can assume) and that's why he sends you two, but he does specifically mention you two, rather than telling Duncan to send two and Duncan choosing to keep Alistair out of the battle.

That kind of makes me wonder if Cailin might have been in on Alistair's secret and was trying to protect his half-brother from the thick of the battle. He might not have been, but it occurred to me.

[Rainen89]

Considering some noble's son in Howe's prison knew that Alistair was Maric's bastard I'm sure Cailan either knew or acknowledged the rumors.

Modifié par Rainen89, 07 décembre 2009 - 07:32 .

[Lughsan35]

It may also be that he didn't trust Loghaine's men to get it done..



If Logie's men were there there wouldn't have been any lighting of the tower signal to worry about it ..they would have been ordered NOT to light it...

[HarlequinDream]

I think Cailin trusted Loghain completely. He wouldn't have agreed to leave his fate in Loghain's hands if he didn't trust Loghain.



But I guess I was considering how Alistair is convinced Duncan protected him by sending him to the tower when it really wasn't (rather than Duncan just saying it wasn't) Duncan's suggestion. It was Cailin's, very specifically. Which I also think says a lot about Cailin. If he knew, he obviously saw no threat in Alistair, even though a lot of people probably would have.

[The Capital Gaultier]

He wants to fight alongside the Grey Wardens. I'm not sure how many of them were at Ostagar, but it seems like there were about 12 or so. Sending the two newest inductees to the Tower was a way to send Grey Wardens without taking too many Wardens away from the main fight.

[Amagoi]

If he was really making that decision based oh Alistair's background and heritage, that says a lot about his character. It may also have been simply that it seemed like an errand, and better to send some of the newer wardens he knew of than the more experienced wardens he could use in the field.

[Rainen89]

Anyone else feel the entire Tower strategy was completely unnecessary to begin with?

[HarlequinDream]

I guess it just stuck out to me that he says Alistair is to go instead of just telling Duncan to choose two to go. I mean, Alistair wasn't the only one to survive his Joining. (He mentions there was only one death there, and it doesn't sound like it was just him and the other.) It might just be for plot's sake, but it did catch my attention that he says specifically that he wants you and Alistair to go.

[Gamer-erBIO]

Or perhaps it was because there were 2 grey wardens right in front of his face.

[Amagoi]

Perhaps Alistair was the only other Grey Warden under Duncan that came to his mind? Or the only other one he had met (though that's a bit of a stretch considering it's Cailain we're talking about.). Though I believe I read somewhere that we'd get more insight into Cailain from notes he left behind or something like that in Return to Ostagar? Who knows, that might actually be in there somewhere. Can only hope.

[HarlequinDream]

Gamer-erBIO wrote...

Or perhaps it was because there were 2 grey wardens right in front of his face.

Alistair isn't there. It's just you, Duncan, Cailin, and Loghain.

[Darth_Trethon]

At the moment Cailan falls under the idiot category. Return to Ostagar may promote him to "undercover as idiot" where he just tries really hard to make everyone really believe he is an idiot and succeeded. What with him having a secret agenda and all....I'm guessing it involves parties.

[Kerilus]

I think somewhere in the game it is stated that Cailan did do that to protect Alistair. Or is it Alistair's guess?

Modifié par Kerilus, 07 décembre 2009 - 08:49 .

[Original182]

I think in one of your conversations with Alistair, he would say something like maybe Duncan sent him to the tower to protect him.
This is speculation, but maybe Duncan convinced Cailan beforehand to send both you and Alistair to the tower. So that's why when the plan came up, Cailan automatically chose the new Grey Warden and Alistair.
But there seems to be a strong indication that Duncan played a part in keeping Alistair away from the main battle.

Edit: If that's true, then that would explain away why Cailan sent Alistair to the tower, and that means Cailan doesn't know of Alistair as his half-brother.
And even if Cailan knew of Alistair, there is a strong chance that Cailan would seek to harm Alistair because he is a threat to his throne. I don't know how noble Cailan is, but I'm just throwing it out there that it's more likely Cailan really didn't know Alistair was his half-brother.

Modifié par Original182, 07 décembre 2009 - 08:59 .

[ahnnajade]

Cailan knew Alistair was his half brother, yes.

Talk to Anora in Eamon's estate at the landsmeet, and she will say as much in the dialogue trees. Everyone knew about Alistair but Alistair, basically. Maric specifically kept Alistair out of court on purpose for whatever reason.

[Mnemnosyne]

Original182 wrote...

I think in one of your conversations with Alistair, he would say something like maybe Duncan sent him to the tower to protect him.
This is speculation, but maybe Duncan convinced Cailan beforehand to send both you and Alistair to the tower. So that's why when the plan came up, Cailan automatically chose the new Grey Warden and Alistair.
But there seems to be a strong indication that Duncan played a part in keeping Alistair away from the main battle.

Edit: If that's true, then that would explain away why Cailan sent Alistair to the tower, and that means Cailan doesn't know of Alistair as his half-brother.
And even if Cailan knew of Alistair, there is a strong chance that Cailan would seek to harm Alistair because he is a threat to his throne. I don't know how noble Cailan is, but I'm just throwing it out there that it's more likely Cailan really didn't know Alistair was his half-brother.

Every single interaction we get with Cailan from every origin and race has him being a shining example of a good person, even if we react with hostility to him at our first meeting.  His only real character flaw is his glory seeking.  True that this is partly because the game is really trying to make us like him, so that him subsequently dying is taken harder, but what everyone universally says about him is that he's a good man, certainly not the type that would intentionally harm his half-brother because he's a very, very miniscule potential threat to his throne.

If Cailan did know, I cannot imagine him ever trying to harm Alistair intentionally.  Of course, considering he himself was going to be on the front lines, I doubt he considered it such a horribly dangerous place to be anyway, so sending Alistair to the tower was not likely done to protect him and keep him out of the battle.

[Nobody Important]

ahnnajade wrote...

Cailan knew Alistair was his half brother, yes.
Talk to Anora in Eamon's estate at the landsmeet, and she will say as much in the dialogue trees. Everyone knew about Alistair but Alistair, basically. Maric specifically kept Alistair out of court on purpose for whatever reason.

If you talk to Loghain when you recruit him he tells you why Maric never publically announced Alistair as his son even though he wanted to.

[PinkShira]

ahnnajade wrote...

Cailan knew Alistair was his half brother, yes.
Talk to Anora in Eamon's estate at the landsmeet, and she will say as much in the dialogue trees. Everyone knew about Alistair but Alistair, basically. Maric specifically kept Alistair out of court on purpose for whatever reason.

If you save Loghain and talk to him about Alistair and Maric you get your answers.  Well, if you believe what he is saying, but at that time I do not believe he is lying.

Dangit nobody... you beat me to it...lol.

Modifié par PinkShira, 07 décembre 2009 - 09:18 .

[ahnnajade]

Aww you guys are hinting without actually telling me!
Now I may have to let the poor old dude live next game

edit: Hm, unless that's all he says on the matter, too. Ah I'll probably have to see for myself eventually, anyway.

Modifié par ahnnajade, 07 décembre 2009 - 09:22 .

[Apophis2412]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

At the moment Cailan falls under the idiot category. Return to Ostagar may promote him to "undercover as idiot" where he just tries really hard to make everyone really believe he is an idiot and succeeded. What with him having a secret agenda and all....I'm guessing it involves parties.

Like Bhelen?

[HarlequinDream]

Yeah, I think Cailin is generally a good guy.



I mean, my city elf was pretty hostile and very blunt about what had happened to her, and Cailin... had the decency to act pretty appalled.



There is the fact that he was fighting on the front lines himself, but if he did see Alistair as a brother of sorts, he might have still sort of thought "Well, I'll be fine, but I want to be sure he's safe."



And now... I'm curious about what Loghain says, but that means I have to let him live. Bleh.

[Darth_Trethon]

Apophis2412 wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

At the moment Cailan falls under the idiot category. Return to Ostagar may promote him to "undercover as idiot" where he just tries really hard to make everyone really believe he is an idiot and succeeded. What with him having a secret agenda and all....I'm guessing it involves parties.

Like Bhelen?

No not like Bhelen.....Bhelen did a great deal of great things for the dwarves while harrowmont never did a single good thing if you put him on the throne.....if anything Harrowmont was a really crappy ruler that lost ground to the pressing darkspawn, isolated his people and left the dwarves torn by civil wars......completely unlike Bhelen.

Bhelen was a visionary and a great ruler.....unlike Cailan who just wanted to play at war.

[PinkShira]

I have to admit that like Harlequin, I wondered and thought the same things. In my mind Cailin is a good person and was trying to keep his brother out of harms way... as well as the pc since you are the new recruit. I got the impression there was more to Cailin then meets the eye.. sort of like Zevran - more going on inside then what is shown on the surface.

[HarlequinDream]

PinkShira wrote...

I have to admit that like Harlequin, I wondered and thought the same things. In my mind Cailin is a good person and was trying to keep his brother out of harms way... as well as the pc since you are the new recruit. I got the impression there was more to Cailin then meets the eye.. sort of like Zevran - more going on inside then what is shown on the surface.

Cailin did reeeeally stupid things, yes. (Seeking glory and being all "I am a king with no heir. I will fight on the front lines, yay!") But I do kind of think that he wanted you to go to the tower because... you're brand new. Sure, you've fought a few darkspawn here and there, but... you're brand new. And Alistair is his brother.

Maybe I'm just fond of Cailin and wish I could have had him in the game longer, but I like to believe he was at least trying to protect his brother and the newbie.

[PinkShira]

HarlequinDream wrote...

PinkShira wrote...

I have to admit that like Harlequin, I wondered and thought the same things. In my mind Cailin is a good person and was trying to keep his brother out of harms way... as well as the pc since you are the new recruit. I got the impression there was more to Cailin then meets the eye.. sort of like Zevran - more going on inside then what is shown on the surface.

Cailin did reeeeally stupid things, yes. (Seeking glory and being all "I am a king with no heir. I will fight on the front lines, yay!") But I do kind of think that he wanted you to go to the tower because... you're brand new. Sure, you've fought a few darkspawn here and there, but... you're brand new. And Alistair is his brother.

Maybe I'm just fond of Cailin and wish I could have had him in the game longer, but I like to believe he was at least trying to protect his brother and the newbie.

Well, I agree with you.   I have to admit on my third playthrough I started to think maybe I like Cailin because he looks and acts like Alistair a bit.  Anyone know if Steve Valentine voiced Calin as well as Alistair?

Modifié par PinkShira, 07 décembre 2009 - 10:26 .