196 réponses à ce sujet

[Dallagar Swift]

ReggarBlane wrote...

There is a difference between standing up for oneself and being a total ^$*@# to everyone. She dislikes people and prefers to live apart from them. So... she's mean and unsociable.
People either live together or against each other. She seems to be very much the latter. Nothing makes up for that.

No they call that antisocial, not unsociable. I realy like her for her strong traits. You always know where you stand with her. If she likes you she says so and if she hates you she says so. How much better can it get. She is very observant and intelligent. I wish I could find a woman like her.

[Layn]

did morrigan actually ever brag about being a master manipulator? all i remember is her saying that she doesn't get recognized as an apostate, and when she is, all she has to do is be pretty and cry rape to be saved by templars instead of being killed.

flemeth however makes it seem that morrigan actually is good at manipulating, but i believe thats only because she expects morrigan to be like her. then again it might be true, but morrigan just doesn't care about if people like her and is just along for the lulz and the possible chance at giving birth to an old god baby.
actually when i confronted flemeth and she said that, i stopped for a moment and had to think about how i stand with morrigan. why am i there confronting her mother without her. thats when i decided that she was a friend and i just had to trust her.

Modifié par Crrash, 08 décembre 2009 - 09:30 .

[ReubenLiew]

I find it cute that people who claims to have never met a Morrigan in life wants to, and everyone who has doesn't want to.



Ignorance is bliss, non?

[Statulos]

Hardin4188 wrote...

I think the Chantry's regulation is a good thing. The trouble in the tower shows that the templars were getting slack. Maybe apostates shouldn't be hunted down, but they definitely should eliminate blood mages. They are too dangerous to keep around.

That is as absurd as banning electricity because it... electrocutes people.

Blood Magic is a tool and that´s it. The Chantry hates it for a very simple fact: if a mage wants to perform awesome magic, needs lyrium and, how curious, the Chantry controls its distribution. But blood is something every mage has and can spill to archive extra power (just like Jowan shows in the mage origin) .

It is also true that Blood Mage can use someone else´s blood to get "extra juice for your batteries" but once again, that is up to the personal morals of the mage, not a fault of the tool itself.

adembroski11 wrote...
That said, I don't see Morrigan as
strictly Libertarian. She reminds me of people who look at oppressed
people in, say, Iran, China, or North Korea and make the claim that
their culture does not allow for freedom or that they don't want
freedom. She seems to look down on the oppressed as somehow deserving
of their bondage simply for being in bondage, and this is typically a
view you get out of isolationist leftists, not Civil Libertarians and
Social Capitalists like Rand and Smith.

DA offers a perfect example of that theory being taken to the toilet: they do not have a culture of liberties because it´s fairly difficult to fight AK´s with words. Alienages and casteless dwarfs show how it is very difficult in material terms to overthrow a system which prevent you form having the tools to revolt, both cultural (knowledge and education) and material (weapons).

When you tell Morrigan about becoming a golem herself in the Anvil of the Void scene she just thinks "hey, that´s not cool!" 

Modifié par Statulos, 08 décembre 2009 - 09:45 .

[Layn]

Statulos wrote...

That is as absurd as banning electricity because it... electrocutes people.

Blood Magic is a tool and that´s it. The Chantry hates it for a very simple fact: if a mage wants to perform awesome magic, needs lyrium and, how curious, the Chantry controls its distribution. But blood is something every mage has and can spill to archive extra power (just like Jowan shows in the mage origin) .

It is also true that Blood Mage can use someone else´s blood to get "extra juice for your batteries" but once again, that is up to the personal morals of the mage, not a fault of the tool itself.

yeah blood magic is alright, just the same rules as always apply "don't hurt anybody else" and definitely "don't kill anybody else".

[Acemath]

Okay,i have my own opinion about Morrigan,and too lazy to typ it right now.But as i already stated in another thread:Bioware has done it to create a character where people speak about even years after today.I tip my hat to the devs for that...i can't remember any game-character that has this many threads about them/it/her/him.....

[Steel Majere343]

well actually youd be surprised how many people are really like her. people that hate all religion for some personal purpose because they think that it is the "real" way the world is, without getting deep into this touchy topic suffice it to say i believe they have no more proof then anyone that the world was just created by an explosion, which created all life. but even if that is true, theres absolutely no way to tell if there was a hand in that act by god, we are only living beings and we should see ourselves as such, its unfallable to attempt to understand how everything around us was created, itll never happen.



ANYWAYS needless to say iv met a lot of people that chastise me constantly for my religion, and they are worse than morrigan is in the game, morrigan barely says anything about it until asked.



and she is sarcastic, shes not even that mean lol, she barely makes fun of anyone other then alistair which everyone makes fun of alistair, even wynn! hahaha.



shes nicer to me then both alistair and sten are.

[LdyShayna]

Crrash wrote...

did morrigan actually ever brag about being a master manipulator?

Master?  Not really.  Being a manipulator?  Several times, at least with my characters.

[noretus]

Steel Majere343 wrote...

in response to this i think you should think it through a tad bit more, youv got it quit confused. Morrigan actually (at least if your in a romance with her) does say that she wants to protect you from death, and she also states (if you ask her) that the baby will not be a demonspawn but it will be otherwise normal other then having a gods soul. It is not a demons soul mind you it is the original old gods soul. It is pure, like she says she only wants the soul BEFORE it was tainted. so, in essence, she has a fairly holy baby, not a demonspawn.

again she states multiple times that she wants to do this for the heros sake, not to mention she never says anything about wanting to do that all along, she says maybe thats what her mother planned but otherwise there is no evidence to support that this plan was thought up in advance.

on top of all this dont you think she told the hero the truth maybe..because theres a part of her that cares? she could have not told him as you say, she is intelligent, but instead she tells him what will happen and is completely willing to answer any questions about the baby and the ritual.

so i think your pretty misguided

Calling the baby a demonspawn is really more me poking fun at the concept.

You say Morrigan infact does want to protect the hero from death and actually cares? Then why won't she stick around if you refuse the ritual? If she really cared, she would. If she really cared, she again wouldn't tell the whole story regarding the baby. She would lie to protect you. Either way, she is handling the last discussion stupidly, making stupid assumptions about the hero. She let's her own skewed world view affect her ability to reach her goals way too much, wether it is to really protect the hero out of concern or out of powerhunger. This is why she isn't as intelligent as she likes to think ( or as some people like to think ).
Even if she is right, it still means she is a fool and like I said in the first post, emotionally confused. Others may argue that.

[Hardin4188]

Statulos wrote...

Hardin4188 wrote...

I think the Chantry's regulation is a good thing. The trouble in the tower shows that the templars were getting slack. Maybe apostates shouldn't be hunted down, but they definitely should eliminate blood mages. They are too dangerous to keep around.

That is as absurd as banning electricity because it... electrocutes people.

Blood Magic is a tool and that´s it. The Chantry hates it for a very simple fact: if a mage wants to perform awesome magic, needs lyrium and, how curious, the Chantry controls its distribution. But blood is something every mage has and can spill to archive extra power (just like Jowan shows in the mage origin) .

It is also true that Blood Mage can use someone else´s blood to get "extra juice for your batteries" but once again, that is up to the personal morals of the mage, not a fault of the tool itself.

It's not really the same thing. Electricity doesn't summon demons and turn people into abominations....The Chantry has a very good reason for controlling the lyrium trade. If they didn't then apostates would have better access to it and that can be very dangerous.

Modifié par Hardin4188, 08 décembre 2009 - 10:17 .

[Tianwyn]

i can't remember any game-character that has this many threads about them/it/her/him.....

Aribeth, maybe. Funnily enough, she is another Bioware poster girl with a polarizing personality/story arc, and a . . . unique . . . outfit.

[Layn]

LdyShayna wrote...

Crrash wrote...

did morrigan actually ever brag about being a master manipulator?

Master?  Not really.  Being a manipulator?  Several times, at least with my characters.

well.. uhm... well... mh... darn. morrigan certainly doesnt make it easy defending her

hey it's LdyShayna! a name i actually recognize from the old forums

[Acemath]

Tianwyn wrote...

i can't remember any game-character that has this many threads about them/it/her/him.....

Aribeth, maybe. Funnily enough, she is another Bioware poster girl with a polarizing personality/story arc, and a . . . unique . . . outfit.

Unique outfit?Where?

[Badger8126]

I think I killed Wynn because of her, she's my only mage now and healer....

[Statulos]

Hardin4188 wrote...

Statulos wrote...

Hardin4188 wrote...

I think the Chantry's regulation is a good thing. The trouble in the tower shows that the templars were getting slack. Maybe apostates shouldn't be hunted down, but they definitely should eliminate blood mages. They are too dangerous to keep around.

That is as absurd as banning electricity because it... electrocutes people.

Blood Magic is a tool and that´s it. The Chantry hates it for a very simple fact: if a mage wants to perform awesome magic, needs lyrium and, how curious, the Chantry controls its distribution. But blood is something every mage has and can spill to archive extra power (just like Jowan shows in the mage origin) .

It is also true that Blood Mage can use someone else´s blood to get "extra juice for your batteries" but once again, that is up to the personal morals of the mage, not a fault of the tool itself.

It's not really the same thing. Electricity doesn't summon demons and turn people into abominations....The Chantry has a very good reason for controlling the lyrium trade. If they didn't then apostates would have better access to it and that can be very dangerous.

Or imagine a massive strike of junkie templars that are not given their dose!
Once again, summoning demons can be archived whitout the aid of Blood Magic and one can be possessed whitout it.
The Chantry, as any other social institution has a very good reason to control whatever they can control: power. And that is the ultimate name of the game.

[Kurupt87]

ReggarBlane wrote...

If everyone was as "practical" as Morrigan, then nobody would feel the need to go beyond what they have. The world would stagnate. If you're so into science, then you know that struggle and evolving is the natural way of things. Morrigan doesn't evolve. She exists in her image and nothing outside of that matters. She accepts nothing that doesn't fit in her ideals. Talk about being closed-minded.
Again, nothing makes up for that.

you don't understand morrigan, she is out for only herself and bettering what she has and her power, which is the be all and end all of evolution, survival of the fittest. conversely, our modern western society of morals and acceptance of all has brought an end to our natural evolution as a species imo.
btw im not an anarchist, i do like our society, this is a biological view.

Modifié par Kurupt87, 08 décembre 2009 - 10:45 .

[cutieyum]

Red Viking wrote...

I wonder how many people here would actually associate with Morrigan if she were a real person. She's great as a character in a video game, but, in real life, what she does translates into a very selfish and toxic personality.

Toxic?? I don't see her spreading lies, and mind-****ing with anyone. She is very straight forward. She asks for what she wants, and wants to live apart in her freedom. A freedom that is also confining, but nevertheless her choice. A choice that might be wrong-headed, but nevertheless voluntary, unlike the other 'lifestyles' of Ferelden, which are imposed.

Why do people hate the character so much and project into Morrigan negative traits of out-of-control hate, malice and manipulation that her psych-abused woman-child doesn't possess?

Morrigan was broken as a child in a way that we don't consider acceptable, she is strong-willed, 'bald-face' and utilitarian. She is the opposite of the paragon of the Victorian ideal. And yet, I find her more acceptable than the other companions (except Oghren), as someone posted 'they are: a mass murderer, a spy-manipulator-assassin, an abomination, a needy man-child, a suicidal assasin, a blood-thristy construct.' All this people are broken in this dark fantasy. They are not passable for RL or to build a house with a white picket fence. Morrigan is no different than the other NPCs, and she is not going to march in some holy jihad into Fereldren like Sten's people will in the future. If there's a philosophy that's dangerous that is the Qunari's, not the Swamp Witch's.

Modifié par cutieyum, 09 décembre 2009 - 01:02 .

[marshalleck]

cutieyum wrote...

Red Viking wrote...

I wonder how many people here would actually associate with Morrigan if she were a real person. She's great as a character in a video game, but, in real life, what she does translates into a very selfish and toxic personality.

Toxic?? I don't see her spreading lies, and mind-****ing with anyone. She is very straight forward. She asks for what she wants, and wants to live apart in her freedom. A freedom that is also confining, but nevertheless her choice. A choice that might be wrong-headed, but nevertheless voluntary, unlike the other 'lifestyles' of Ferelden, which are imposed.

Why do people hate the character so much and project into Morrigan negative traits of out-of-control hate, malice and manipulation that her psych-abused woman-child doesn't possess?

Morrigan was broken as a child in a way that we don't consider acceptable, she is strong-willed, 'bald-face' and utilitarian. She is the opposite of the paragon of the Victorian ideal. And yet, I find her more acceptable than the other companions (except Oghren), as someone posted 'they are: a mass murderer, a spy-manipulator-assassin, an abomination, a needy man-child, a suicidal assasin, a blood-thristy construct.' All this people are broken in this dark fantasy. They are not passable for RL or to build a house with a white picket fence. Morrigan is no different than the other NPCs, and she is not going to march in some holy jihad into Fereldren like Sten's people will in the future. If there's a philosophy that's dangerous that is the Qunari's, not the Swamp Witch's.

You raise a question that psychologists and philosophers have been asking decades, if not centuries.

Short answer: people fit things into a box so they can understand it. If some piece of evidence does not fit the box or category to which the subject has been assigned, it's disregarded. This applies to both sides who either love her or hate her. The developers even acknowledge this via Sten with his admonishments against categorizing people.

And no, this isn't a stab at armchair/internet psychology. It's common sense for anyone who has ever taken the time to ponder why people do the things they do.

Modifié par marshalleck, 09 décembre 2009 - 01:09 .

[Darth_Trethon]

Morrigan is one of the most perfect game characters I have ever seen....as is Anora. I am somewhat conflicted as to which is better....that's a tough call to make.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Yeah, we totally need to see more girls like Morrigan in real life.

It'd be the first great step towards legalizing rape.

[cutieyum]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

Yeah, we totally need to see more girls like Morrigan in real life.
It'd be the first great step towards legalizing rape.

WTF??

Please don't troll.

[cutieyum]

noretus wrote...

Most certainly, she shouldn't have started to act like a complete evil **** the moment we meet.
If I was her, I would've done my best to accommodate my behaviour to the hero's. If the hero is a goody two shoes, I'd pretend to be one as well and at least feign giving intelligent advice. If the hero spares the lives of those bandits in Lothering and gets the merchant to lower his prices, I'd compliment him. I would NOT keep making fun of Alistair, I'd be kind to him as well. In general, I'd try my best to be kind and supportive and throw in a few flirty lines every now and then. I'd try to be well liked in the party so that the hero would have as little doubt as possible about my ultimate goals.
Most certainly, when the time comes to do the ritual, I would definitely not tell the hero that this was the true reason I was sent along. I'd cry and beg the hero to do this because he means so much to me and I don't want to see him die. I would feed him lies about how I can force a miscarriage or something and get rid of the demonspawn without anyone having to give their life for it. I sure as heck would NOT tell the hero that I plan on making off with the baby to raise it to be some ultimate spawn of evil. Even if the hero refuses, I could try to fall back on Alistair ( to whom I would have been kind as well like I said ). After the ritual is done, I could play along as long as needed and then make off with my mission accomplished and the hero feeling quite the fool.

You are describing Leliana.