Allan Schumacher wrote...
Okay. This DOES mean that the game kind of self balances in that players that struggle will receive more experience, which eventually balances out in that the poorer players will get less xp since they'll be a higher level killing lower level guys.
How would you change the level up mechanics though, because right now I'd see this as punitive to better players, since poorer players open up greater versatility to their characters through additional abilities, and one thing I enjoy about RPGs is unlocking additional abilities. If I find myself gaining less xp because I'm roflstomping the game, do you have any concerns that I'll actually find the game less enjoyable since I'll get less cool new abilities to play with compared to a poorer player?
It actually balances out in that the poorer players will get MORE xp, but I think you did understand that and just accidentally switched adectives.
And to your second paragraph, three points.
One - previously, you had discussed nerfing the main quest diffuclty, since not everyone would do the side quests. I feel like THAT is penalizing a player more than an invisible XP mechanic that most players will not even feel. After all... how many fights in the DA universe have people really and truly barely taken a hit on? Few and far between... and almost unheard of in large or hard fights, where you usually get the most combat XP.
So, yes, it does penalize the player... but then again, with the concept of side quests, someone is always getting penalized. If you do them, the person who does not is penalized and may rage-quit because they cannot get past a certain point in the main quest. If you nerf the main quest, the side quest of saving the cat from a tree can be a harder difficulty than slaying the dragon, which is bonkers when you step back and look at it (obviously, I'm speaking in hyperbole). And if you level scale everything, saving the kitten from the tree will be EXACTLY as hard as slaying the dragon, which is also ridiculous.
My concept scales a player's XP gained, in marginal, baby steps the entire game. Very rarely will you consistently be receiving the 50% penalty. Similarly, very varely will you receive the 200% bonus. More than likley, I'd ensure the game and combat design would match so that the vast majority of players would have problems getting below the 75% penalty range in any given fight and the vast majority of players never got beyond the 150% bonus. It would take some testing and tweaking, but I do not envision this system working where a player who is doing well and advancing in levels all of a sudden hits a brick wall, out of nowhere. It would be a small effect, felt throughout the entire game, that would help control the overall difficulty in relation to the only real metric we have to see how well you are doing in combat - how close you come to dying.
Second point - I completed my Masters in Business Administration degree a year and a half ago. During those classes, I took a Business Writing course that I thought would be easy. After all, I have a semi-analytical mind and I don't mind writing (as can be seen by the walls of text I have posted in here through the last few days), so I thought that it would be a fairly easy course. However, one of our first assignments was to write a sample, made up, Business Requirements Document (BRD). I went through and filled out the different sections with my made up scenario and turned it in.
It came back soaked in red ink. I had failed to collect all the information needed (even in my imaginary scenario, ironic, I know), to take into account varainces that could cause issues, to address the risk levels of varying solutions in greater detail and, all in all, didn't do the assignment right. It was a crushing blow and made me realize that the course was not going to be cake walk. But this lesson stuck with me. After I got my degree, I was given a promotion at my work and now I write or review BRDs on a weekly basis. But none of those BRDs compare to the amount of learning I received getting back my first one soaked in red ink.
There are many tasks I have learned in my professional and educational careers for the first time. But it is only the assignments we do particularly bad on that stick out with us and give us the most instruction and feedback.
My point being this - Experience has become in RPGs an expected benefit. If we kill a monster, we should get every XP point we are entitled too! But you have to remember - XP is an abstract construct for the concept of learning. And just like learning in literally every aspect of the human expereince - once you reach a certain level, you tend to plateau for a long period. It is the nature of things. You shouldn't be so good at combat that you can kill things with no effort... and then expect to learn more about combat to make your moves more impressive! That's completely counter-intuitive. Its not punishment, its reality. If you are REALLY good at something to the point where you don't try, then you aren't learning. That's why some children repeat the same grade, because they are struggling (and could, arguably be said, are getting more expereince from the 3rd grade - given that they are taking it twice) and other children skip kindergardern or the first grade - because if they have progressed so rapidly and done so well, that if they were to be sent to the next logical grade or step, they would gain almost no experience from it. Unfortunately, for a story-based RPG, it can be difficult to skip entire sections, so the only alternative is to place the "child" in the grade, but realize they won't learn as much (i.e., gain as much experience).
And my third and final point - there is mantra for fun RPG design: ABL. Always. Be. Leveling.
Skyrim does this amazingly well, in many respects. You have almost two dozen skills, all of which are leveled up individually. You can go through one dungeon and level up your armor skill, your weapon skill, your sneak skill, your magic skill and your lockpick skill... which may in turn allow you to raise your overall character level. Which then means you get to choose a level-based perk!
Again, I do not want to mirror the Skyrim leveling system of advancing by doing (since that can basically mean you stand in front of a mudcrap for twenty minutes, just soaking in levels) for either the model I have proposed or in the DA franchise. But it does point out something obvious - people love leveling up. This can be done the TES way, where you essentially have a dozen different types of experience (Speech experience, smithing expereince, one-handed weapons expereince) which I think could be very interesting in the DA world, or you can go the Diablo route, and have standard levels that go up to level 50 or 60 in one playthrough.
The multiple XP idea could work in DA, where if a character uses magic, say even a specific type of magic, such as Blood Magic, their Blood Magic XP goes up. By the same token, they could also be casting a buff on the entire party from the Creation tree. So when the fight is over, they could receive XP that goes to the Blood Magic tree and the Creation Tree. This, in turn, could allow them in circumstances to level up both Creation and Blood Magic in the same fight, a double level up if you will. Higher level skills or talents in these trees would take a ton of experience to unlock, so a player has the choice of diversifying their skills by using lots of different trees, or by sticking to one tree and work on becoming a purist.
The Diablo method would also be interesting, where every area or dungeon would likely result in a level up. But there would then be the requirement that you would need to follow the Diablo skill tree method (or something similar). Meaning if you unlock the Fireball skill, you'd actually need to level that skill up 5 times before you can unlock the Firewall skill, and so on and so forth. No longer would one skill be unlocked, but rather you'd need to consistently level it up after it is unlocked to keep it powerful and relevant, in addition to unlocking other skills.
Ultimately, my point is that people DO like to level up. So I'd suggest a leveling or a skill progression system that is allowing constant advancement, even if you are being penalized with the 50% XP gain in every fight.
Also, as a complete sidebar, I think sneak and persuasion XP awards should be awarded based on the number of enemies you avoid fighting if you go that route (aka, if you successfully sneak past 5 darkspawn, it should give you the same amount of XP as killing those 5 darkspawn, or if you persuade someone to let you walk in and skip fighitng two dozen guards, it should give you XP totaling, or even surpassing, the XP gained from killing those two dozen guards). It has always been the case that these options are awarded with barely as much XP as killing an enemy, so combat is always encouraged as the way to achieve the highest XP levels. Totally not on topic, but it is something that has bothered me.
Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 28 avril 2012 - 01:02 .
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