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[DJBare]

I've posted about this in other topics but felt it needed a topic of it's own because of the confusion surrounding the three options presented by the catalyst.

Disclaimer: I am not defending the ending to this game, in fact my statement just shows how poorly thought out the ending is.

Gamers in general expect some kind of reward for their efforts, the ultimate reward is normally being presented at the end of the game.
I have seen many posts where the player has equated the three options as some kind of reward for high EMS, I also thought the same when I first played, this goes back to players expecting the ultimate reward at the end of the game.
On reflection this is not the case, let me attempt to dissect and explain.

First off, lets get rid of the notion that the catalyst present all three option, this is an error, and here is why.

Destroy is presented by the races who aided in the construction of the crucible.
Control is presented by TIM
Which leaves, yes you guessed it, Synthesis presented by the catalyst

Note the dialogue from the catalyst for each option.

Destroy: All Synthetic life will be destroyed, even you are part synthetic.
Control: You will die, you will lose everything you have.
Synthesis: What? nothing bad to say about synthesis?

The catalyst is attempting to bias your decision making, and that bias points toward synthesis, the reapers ultimate goal, ascension.

What has all this got to do with rewards?, I'm glad you asked, here is part of the reason the ending is poorly thought out.

The EMS equates to the survival of earth and inhabitants during the use of the crucible with "destroy", that is the ultimate reward, the higher your EMS the less chance earth is destroyed when using the destroy option.
The poorly thought out part is because as we have seen, most players equate the three options as a reward when in fact only destroy is the ultimate reward for high EMS, which is confusing because you can get the destroy option with low EMS, accept you cannot save earth with low EMS, saving the earth and inhabitants IS your ultimate reward.

Edit to add on re-reading

My statement on earth being saved as the ultimate reward maybe in error, the ultimate reward is everything(accept the reapers) is saved, with the crucible functioning top level, it only targets Reaper tech, now while this affects EDI and the upgraded geth, I'm going to make the assumption the reaper tech is disable while EDI and the geth remain functional.

Modifié par DJBare, 24 avril 2012 - 06:46 .

[TX-Toast]

Very interesting Dr. Campbell.

[TX-Toast]

Why is high EMS needed for the synthesis option? I can't figure how EMS determine what choices the catalyst shows you.

[DJBare]

TX-Toast wrote...

Why is high EMS needed for the synthesis option? I can't figure how EMS determine what choices the catalyst shows you.

Because with high EMS you are a greater threat, so the catalyst presents what appears to be a garden of eden choice.

[DJBare]

I should add, that with destroy and low EMS you are doing the reapers job for them, high EMS allows the crucible to target the reapers accurately while leaving everything else untouched, with low EMS the accuracy is gone, you destroy the earth and possibly miss many reapers that are spread throughout the galaxy.

[Reptilian Rob]

Solid read, to me though it boils down to this.

Green = Mass Rape

Blue = Mass Slavery

Red = Mass Genocide

Gotta pick the lesser evil and go with genocide.

[DJBare]

Reptilian Rob wrote...
Red = Mass Genocide

Gotta pick the lesser evil and go with genocide.

It's only mass genocide if have low EMS and/or believe the catalyst, yes the relays are put out of commision whatever you choose and it's believed by many that the races are stranded, but that's a whole other topic, this is about people considering the three options to be some kind of reward when in hindsight they are not.

[Legion is Skynet]

DJBare wrote...

TX-Toast wrote...

Why is high EMS needed for the synthesis option? I can't figure how EMS determine what choices the catalyst shows you.

Because with high EMS you are a greater threat, so the catalyst presents what appears to be a garden of eden choice.

I'd be more inclined to say that high EMS means more resources and scientists working on the Cruicible, which could mean more possible configurations of the hardware once the software (the Catalyst) is installed.

[kalasaurus]

This would make sense. I know there's a theory floating around that the Crucible is a trap/test on organics originally designed by the Catalyst/Reapers, and I think that's the case too.

[d-boy15]

The most reward in destroy ending is EDI go boom.

can't let that cripple coward have fun with his sexbot. that not what he deserve.

now, seriously, they should make a destroy ending with 5,000 ems not destroy Geth
that the easy way to make happy ending but I can see that they not gonna do that...

Modifié par d-boy15, 23 avril 2012 - 07:02 .

[DJBare]

Legion is Skynet wrote...

I'd be more inclined to say that high EMS means more resources and scientists working on the Cruicible, which could mean more possible configurations of the hardware once the software (the Catalyst) is installed.

Of course you would, as players/gamers it's what we've come to expect, it's what I came to expect, but they convoluted the ending, because of the catalyst appearance and the options, those became the goal in the players mind, they had forgotten the goal is "Take Earth back".

[Allan Schumacher]

That's an interesting hypothesis and not one that I've seen yet. The motivations for doing so certainly can be rationalized when one factors in that the catalyst is the controller of the Reapers.

Although if synthesis is the goal of the Reapers, why wouldn't it always be presented. Or is there still something to be said about the Crucible's construction, in that the Catalyst won't provide an option that it knows won't work properly because we built some POS Crucible that will behave erratically?

[Siran]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

That's an interesting hypothesis and not one that I've seen yet. The motivations for doing so certainly can be rationalized when one factors in that the catalyst is the controller of the Reapers.

Although if synthesis is the goal of the Reapers, why wouldn't it always be presented. Or is there still something to be said about the Crucible's construction, in that the Catalyst won't provide an option that it knows won't work properly because we built some POS Crucible that will behave erratically?

I guess if your EMS isn't high enough, you're not "worthy" to be considered viable for Synthesis, as you are too weak and haven't proven to be an addition that strengthens the new race.

[DJBare]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
Although if synthesis is the goal of the Reapers, why wouldn't it always be presented. Or is there still something to be said about the Crucible's construction, in that the Catalyst won't provide an option that it knows won't work properly because we built some POS Crucible that will behave erratically?

Ready for some speculation?, we inadvertently build it for them with high EMS, we are doing their work for them, synthesis would be the most complex of the options, the more scientists and engineers we throw at the crucible the greater the chance it gets built, remember, we don't know what the crucible does or how it functions(bit silly if you ask me, but that's the story)

[pikey1969]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Although if synthesis is the goal of the Reapers, why wouldn't it always be presented. Or is there still something to be said about the Crucible's construction, in that the Catalyst won't provide an option that it knows won't work properly because we built some POS Crucible that will behave erratically?

Gonna sound juvenile, but I think the following is a decent reasoning.

Lower EMS = less unity, smaller army, weak mind/will, and ultimately no display of 'respectable' force.

Lower EMS = The current generation of organics are unworthy of Synthesis with the synthetics.

[d-boy15]

destroy ending seem to be most different outcome compared to all endings

this choice alone have 4 different outcome while control have 2 and synthasis has only 1.

[Bill Casey]

If anything, high end destroy should rob the Geth of their Reaper gifts...
They return to their collective and have to achieve their AI evolution on their own...

It should also rob EDI of a portion of her intelligence...


I mean, the whole point of Destroy is a categorical rejection of the need for the Reapers...
You put faith that synthetics and organics will find a way to coexist on their own...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 23 avril 2012 - 07:23 .

[Allan Schumacher]

I guess if your EMS isn't high enough, you're not "worthy" to be considered viable for synthesis, as you are too weak and haven't proven to be an addition that strengthens the new race.

Yeah that's what I am wondering as well. It fits with the idea that the Crucible is designed to work with the Citadel which strongly indicates the idea behind it was present. I'm warming to the idea that it might just be a test.

Synthesis is definitely provided as an option that the Catalyst doesn't ostensibly state any negative consequences to it (even though near as I can tell, Shepard dies just the same as in the Control ending).

[Allan Schumacher]

DJBare wrote...

Ready for some speculation?, we inadvertently build it for them with high EMS, we are doing their work for them, synthesis would be the most complex of the options, the more scientists and engineers we throw at the crucible the greater the chance it gets built, remember, we don't know what the crucible does or how it functions(bit silly if you ask me, but that's the story)

Do you think it's more of a test, to have organics that are worthy/capable of synthesis?  Or in part because having it created by the organics will provide an unpredictable element that the Catalyst couldn't properly account for?

Gonna sound juvenile, but I think the following is a decent reasoning.

Lower EMS = less unity, smaller army, weak mind/will, and ultimately no display of 'respectable' force.

Lower EMS = The current generation of organics are unworthy of Synthesis with the synthetics.

That doesn't sound juvenile at all!

[Peranor]

Synthesis is disgusting
And the fact that BioWare seems to regard it as the "best" ending... Well.. implications unpleasant

[Bill Casey]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Although if synthesis is the goal of the Reapers, why wouldn't it always be presented.

It'd be an easy way to fool gamers into thinking it's good...
At 2800 EMS, it's a pretty low hanging fruit...

Meanwhile, the Shepard rubble scene is a high hanging fruit...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 23 avril 2012 - 07:33 .

[Reptilian Rob]

DJBare wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...
Red = Mass Genocide

Gotta pick the lesser evil and go with genocide.

It's only mass genocide if have low EMS and/or believe the catalyst, yes the relays are put out of commision whatever you choose and it's believed by many that the races are stranded, but that's a whole other topic, this is about people considering the three options to be some kind of reward when in hindsight they are not.

Exactly, I don't see how ANY of those choices are rewards...

[DJBare]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Ready for some speculation?, we inadvertently build it for them with high EMS, we are doing their work for them, synthesis would be the most complex of the options, the more scientists and engineers we throw at the crucible the greater the chance it gets built, remember, we don't know what the crucible does or how it functions(bit silly if you ask me, but that's the story)

Do you think it's more of a test, to have organics that are worthy/capable of synthesis?  Or in part because having it created by the organics will provide an unpredictable element that the Catalyst couldn't properly account for?

From the reapers point of view, yes, but from Shepards point of view it's a violation of everything he/she stood for throughout the series, strength through diversity, individuality, synthesis in the end just boils down to prettier looking husks.

[Reptilian Rob]

DJBare wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Ready for some speculation?, we inadvertently build it for them with high EMS, we are doing their work for them, synthesis would be the most complex of the options, the more scientists and engineers we throw at the crucible the greater the chance it gets built, remember, we don't know what the crucible does or how it functions(bit silly if you ask me, but that's the story)

Do you think it's more of a test, to have organics that are worthy/capable of synthesis?  Or in part because having it created by the organics will provide an unpredictable element that the Catalyst couldn't properly account for?

From the reapers point of view, yes, but from Shepards point of view it's a violation of everything he/she stood for throughout the series, strength through diversity, individuality, synthesis in the end just boils down to prettier looking husks.

Also, you force something onto others without consent.

Again, something Shepard would never do.

[incinerator950]

"Solutions" (not many people agree with that statement) are generally not rewarding.

I should go draw a Shepard Reaper leading an orchestra. Oh wait, I can't draw.