164 réponses à ce sujet

[kalasaurus]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Do you think it's more of a test, to have organics that are worthy/capable of synthesis?  Or in part because having it created by the organics will provide an unpredictable element that the Catalyst couldn't properly account for?

I think it is.  The crucible is built on every cycle, so it contains the collective knowledge of organics.  The catalyst knew that organics would try to stop the reapers, so he likely planted the original blueprints for the crucible.  If Shepard's capable of uniting the galaxy to the highest EMS in this cycle once the crucible's ready dock to the citadel, then organics passed his "test".  The three choices are solutions to his perceived problem of synthetics vs. organics.

It's just up to Shepard if she wants to actually go along with his ultimate solution of synthesis, though...

[d-boy15]

synthasis is not a reaper goal, it a new solution of that vent kid.

doesn't make me want to choose it anyway.

[incinerator950]

d-boy15 wrote...

synthasis is not a reaper goal, it a new solution of that vent kid.

doesn't make me want to choose it anyway.

Holy **** someone listened?!

[Lestatman]

I haven't considered EMS due to the fact I don't see any of the choices as a victory.

Control = You help the Geth upgrade the Reaper Code and even encourage Edi to become more independant, plus can you really say you'll be able to control the Reapers forever and isn't controling a race go against what Shep stands for.
Synthesis = Against what Shepard stands for "Diversity" and it would have Shepard force something onto all those races without them having a say in it.
Destroy = From the Star Kid Shep is told all Synthentic life is destroyed so goodbye Edi, Geth even tho I've read on a tweet that Edi can somehow survive.

Guess that's why I've never really thought about EMS as each choice leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

[DJBare]

d-boy15 wrote...

synthasis is not a reaper goal, it a new solution of that vent kid.

doesn't make me want to choose it anyway.

Harbinger: Salvation through destruction
The reapers ultimate goal is ascession, the mergin of organic and synthetic, synthesis does this more efficiently, same thing better looking husks.

Modifié par DJBare, 23 avril 2012 - 07:39 .

[Darth Malice113]

incinerator950 wrote...

d-boy15 wrote...

synthasis is not a reaper goal, it a new solution of that vent kid.

doesn't make me want to choose it anyway.

Holy **** someone listened?!

Listening is not what this thread is about (any fool can do that) .

It's about THINKING about what has been said.

[DJBare]

Lestatman wrote...

I haven't considered EMS due to the fact I don't see any of the choices as a victory.

I know what you are saying, but my point is, whether you like any of the options or not, they are "presented" in such a fashion as to "appear" like rewards.

Modifié par DJBare, 23 avril 2012 - 07:43 .

[Lestatman]

DJBare wrote...

Lestatman wrote...

I haven't considered EMS due to the fact I don't see any of the choices as a victory.

I know what you are saying, but my point is, whether you like any of the options or not, they are "presented" in such a fashion as to "appear" like rewards.

True it does feel like that.  Well done ur the 1st organic to reach me so here are ur rewards.

[Rothgar49]

I can't help but wonder then whether the crucible was of original Reaper design then. Implanted as a test for each cycle to complete.

[Bill Casey]

d-boy15 wrote...

synthasis is not a reaper goal, it a new solution of that vent kid.

_______________________________________________________________


Saren Arterius: "The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined. A union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both. The weaknesses of neither. I am a vision of the future, Shepard. The evolution of all organic life. Join Sovereign, and experience a true rebirth."

_______________________________________________________________


Sovereign: "[we are] The pinnacle of evolution and existence"

_______________________________________________________________

(Upon Destroying the Human Reaper)

Legion: "An interesting choice, Shepard Commander. Your species was offered everything Geth aspire to. True unity. Understanding. Transcendence. You rejected it. You even refused the possibility of using The Old Machine's gifts to achieve it on your species own terms. You are more like us than we thought."

Shepard: You told me the Reapers were more my future than your's. You knew what they were, didn't you?

Legion: Transcended flesh. Billions of organic minds, uploaded and conjoined within immortal machine bodies. Each a nation.

_______________________________________________________________


EDI: Reapers are sapient constructs. A hybrid of organic and inorganic material

_______________________________________________________________


Mordin Solus: Cybernetic augmentation widespread afterwards. As Protheans failed, Reapers added tech to compensate. Mental capacity almost gone. Replaced by overworked sensory input transfers. Transmitting data to masters.

Shepard: Is there anything we can do to help them?

Mordin Solus: No! No glands. Replaced by tech. No digestive system. Replaced by tech. No soul. Replaced by tech. Whatever they were, gone forever.

_______________________________________________________________


Catalyst: The reapers are mine, I control them. They are my solution.

_______________________________________________________________


Catalyst: Synthesis is the final evolution of life, but we need eachother to make it happen.

_______________________________________________________________

Modifié par Bill Casey, 23 avril 2012 - 08:15 .

[DJBare]

Thanks Bill, quite a comprehensive list.

[Bill Casey]

Commander Shepard: You let Sovereign implant you? Are you insane?

[Brockxz]

and all this Bill Casey just mentioned are the reason why I can't accept they are forcing Synthesis as best option. Control was absolutely hilarious from the start because I don't see why I need to sacrifice myself to control them when starchild was already controlling them. So the last option was destroy and my paragon Shepard and every other Shepard went that way even I didn't like that option at all. Mostly how they executed. Seriously, if there is some way to shutddown the reapers, why to shoot some tubes and not make console where I press shutdown button? All in all, not a single option was rewarding for me.

[Goodwood]

This is why that one dA post about a fourth option (refuse and fight it out) is, to me, the most viable reward and could really bring forth a phoenix from the ashes. Shepard gets to have his/her epic last speech, and we get to have a really meaningful choice in the matter. Make the Starbrat be an avatar for Harbinger, then have that avatar mutate into various companions' likenesses that taunt Shepard, etc., and then the different endings play out.

If you've got the highest tier of EMS (as it stands, the game offers a maximum of around 7,200 points), then you see a series of cutscenes where the Reapers around Earth are overwhelmed albeit at significant losses. However, none of your companions die and the planet is more or less saved. If you've got medium-high EMS, then a couple of squaddies die (from your crew as well as other folks from ME2, etc.), London is heavily damaged (the Tower falls but the soldiers on the ground are unaffected, etc.), and the fleets in the Sol system suffer more casualties in the process.

The lower your EMS, the worse it gets, right on down to a Reapers Win ending which would cut to some amorphous alien shadow digging up one of Liara's time capsules and opening it, and we see an image of her introducing herself. And, of course, you could still choose to employ the Crucible's "quick and easy" solutions if you're not confident of victory or whatnot. No matter the option (save for the worst), you wouldn't necessarily have to have an epilogue cutscene; a DA:O-style slide-show ending would work just as well.

My opinion, at least.

[DJBare]

Brockxz wrote...

and all this Bill Casey just mentioned are the reason why I can't accept they are forcing Synthesis as best option.

That's the whole point of my OP, synthesis is not the best option, neither is it forced upon you, you only consider it forced because of the consequences of the other two options, the very fact that Shepard can take a breath with the destroy option nullifies the other two options, unless it's a player who wants to take control or create an entirely new race.

[Zulmoka531]

Bill Casey wrote...

Commander Shepard: You let Sovereign implant you? Are you insane?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but synthesis doesn't even remove the Reapers. They are still there, alive and well, and considering they are already techincally a fusion of metal and machine (and well, if the Reapers and all their dangerous tech are still around, surrounded by a bunch of recently synthesized beings..well you do the math).

I just cannot and never will be able to choose that ending. Paragon/Renegade, doesn't matter, it's the very opposite of what my Shepards fought for throughout all MEs.

[Zolt51]

DJBare wrote...

First off, lets get rid of the notion that the catalyst present all three option, this is an error, and here is why.

Destroy is presented by the races who aided in the construction of the crucible.
Control is presented by TIM
Which leaves, yes you guessed it, Synthesis presented by the catalyst

Very, very good point OP. The catalyst actually tries to dissuade you from the first two.

[Bizantura]

All the speculation is nice, but here on earth in the here and now there is invested interest in control and/or synthesis option. So seeing it used in games is not exactly a revelation nor something original.

Old school : obsessed with control by any means necesary.
New school : control in a new and cool artsy way = inplantation/merging with tech.

Old slave versus new slave result a slave is still a slave but by the old way it takes effort and the new might have people running voluntarily.

Freedom option, who would want to reward that even in a game!!

[Zolt51]

Zulmoka531 wrote...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but synthesis doesn't even remove the Reapers. They are still there, alive and well, and considering they are already techincally a fusion of metal and machine (and well, if the Reapers and all their dangerous tech are still around, surrounded by a bunch of recently synthesized beings..well you do the math).

 
Alive and well and... obsolete. If you choose Synthesis, from their own admission through the Catalyst, you remove their very reason for existing. You achieve a better "solution" that they could have dreamed of.

Zulmoka531 wrote... 
I just cannot and never will be able to choose that ending. Paragon/Renegade, doesn't matter, it's the very opposite of what my Shepards fought for throughout all MEs.

And that is your right. It certainly is a very slippery moral slope that synthesis follows. Do not choose it, fine. The other two still offer plenty of food for thought.

[DJBare]

Oops, this thread is slipping a bit, and in part some of my own fault.

My OP is about what represents the rewards for efforts by the players, and as witnessed by the countless threads it's been the three options presented to Shepard, my OP is an attempt to get people thinking that these are not in fact the rewards.

The reward is saving earth "Take Earth back" and the possibility of Shepard surviving the destroy option, even the destroy option is not a reward because you can get this with low EMS, but the results of using destroy are a reward if EMS is high enough.

[daecath]

DJBare wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...
Red = Mass Genocide

Gotta pick the lesser evil and go with genocide.

It's only mass genocide if have low EMS and/or believe the catalyst, yes the relays are put out of commision whatever you choose and it's believed by many that the races are stranded, but that's a whole other topic, this is about people considering the three options to be some kind of reward when in hindsight they are not.

Pretty sure most people aren't considering those options as any kind of reward.

[d-boy15]

I think they should reward player who archieve the highest ems ending better than just breath scene.

wouldn't be better if we have a scene like shepard rise from rubble then heroic standing and have a backgroud as
death reapers behind? if  this game have that scene, I'm sure as hell people will be less pissed about ending.

Modifié par d-boy15, 23 avril 2012 - 09:13 .

[DJBare]

daecath wrote...
Pretty sure most people aren't considering those options as any kind of reward.

You are missing my point, they may not seem like rewards to some players, but that is how they are presented, it does not matter whether you agree with them or not, their presentation overshadows the real reward "Take Earth back"; see my previous post.

[Zulmoka531]

Zolt51 wrote...

Zulmoka531 wrote... 
I just cannot and never will be able to choose that ending. Paragon/Renegade, doesn't matter, it's the very opposite of what my Shepards fought for throughout all MEs.

And that is your right. It certainly is a very slippery moral slope that synthesis follows. Do not choose it, fine. The other two still offer plenty of food for thought.

Sorry bout' that last bit. Sort of went a little emotional regarding the first half. It, much like this follow up post, was sort of irrevelant to the topic at hand.

[Bounercz]

I still dont get one thing , In ME2 Reapers wanted Shepards body and that sentence was said about 10000times , but why? becouse they wanted to throw it at this Child so Shepard could chose that powerfull synthesis which is most retarded choice of all times ? How can one light which is allways the same, change all DNA to half synthetic half organic ? That is terrible and i gues everyone rather die than become husk puppet for reapers... ,but DJBare is right ,more EMS= more strenght for Reapers to control if you chose control/synthesh** ending ,i hope you know BW that this isnt space magic game like final fantasy .