59 réponses à ce sujet

[Eternal Phoenix]

I remember that the City Elf origin in DA:O played out slightly differently if you were a female and I remember there being some dialogue exclusive options for male and female characters but in Dragon Age 2 I don't really remember encountering anything exclusive to a gender. Genders in recent Bioware games feel to be becoming more like purely aesthetic choices. Hell, this seems to be trend for all recent RPG's. How about including options like this for DA3:

• You have to sneak into some random Chantry. Since the priests are women only a woman character can do this.
• Qunari don't view women as warriors. When encountering Qunari as a woman, they should remark upon such and gaining respect from the Qunari should therefore be much harder than it already is.

Just two examples but I'd imagine that more situations and events could be made different based on your character's gender and there could be simple differences in dialogue too. I hope your gender in the next DA game actually means you get a slightly different experience otherwise your choice in gender simply roles down to seeing a different appearance with another voice.

I also recall Origins having a certain chain of quests becoming avaliable only if you had a certain thievery level. I believe more stuff like this should be in Dragon Age 3 but for specialization and class instead. This means that each playthrough will truly be different especially if you're playing a new gender, class and specialization each time.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 23 avril 2012 - 08:59 .

[Reznik23]

It'd make me more inclined to re-play...

[Chrumpek]

I remember how people remarked that I'm from a noble family, am a mage and some of the people knew that I'm myself am using blood magic. Awesome :>

[Vovea]

Specialization and class maybe. Gender no. Small comments by NPCs don't bother me but I'd like the same game experience whether I choose to play as male or female, and yes, I do play both.

The problem with mechanics like this is that it takes away something from a playthrough if the player hasn't done something in a certain way. For example, like you mentioned, Slim Couldry and his 'Crime Wave' quests. A whole bunch of content was locked off if you didn't put a point in pickpocketing and a point in stealth before meeting him for the first time.

If class and specialization did factor into a quest, I'd prefer it if it meant going about a quest in a different way and not it being unavailable.

Modifié par Vovea, 24 avril 2012 - 07:36 .

[rak72]

I could get behind this

[Eternal Phoenix]

Vovea wrote...

Specialization and class maybe. Gender no. Small comments by NPCs don't bother me but I'd like the same game experience whether I choose to play as male or female, and yes, I do play both.

The problem with mechanics like this is that it takes away something from a playthrough if the player hasn't done something in a certain way. For example, like you mentioned, Slim Couldry and his 'Crime Wave' quests. A whole bunch of content was locked off if you didn't put a point in pickpocketing and a point in stealth before meeting him for the first time.

If class and specialization did factor into a quest, I'd prefer it if it meant going about a quest in a different way and not it being unavailable.

Why no for gender? It's something that previous Bioware games have done and it needs to be brought back. I remember a loading screen for ME2 boasting that a playthrough as a different gender will be different but it never was. Create a female or male Shepard, it doesn't matter in the end.

Dragon's Dogma is doing it right. There's certain items that only a certain gender can equip and then we have the troll enemies which are attracted to female characters. There's also quests that can be completed in a special way by a certain gender. In one quest you have to get into a bandit camp that is composed of females. Females characters can just run in but male characters will either need to use force to break in or dress up as women to sneak in.

Having certain options become avaliable for a gender doesn't lock things off as the other gender could still get the quest and complete it but one gender might have another option avaliable for the quest. You shouldn't be able to do everything in one playthrough and there should be certain things that are locked off which means that we have all the more reason to replay. Dragon Age 2 didn't give much reason to replay. Your choices amounted to nothing really save for getting different dialogue or an extra side quest here and there but what I want is for paths to become open that provide more lengthy content. Such a system doesn't need to be simply restricted to choices and their consequences, such a system could also work based on the player's class, specialization and gender.

A blood mage for example could end up in a plot where some Templars are hunting him/her down or how about having a plot where you have to defeat the demon you made a pact with? You could fail and the consequence could be negative (statistics drain and the demon keeps coming back and haunting you).

[Chrumpek]

Vovea wrote...

Specialization and class maybe. Gender no. Small comments by NPCs don't bother me but I'd like the same game experience whether I choose to play as male or female, and yes, I do play both.

The problem with mechanics like this is that it takes away something from a playthrough if the player hasn't done something in a certain way. For example, like you mentioned, Slim Couldry and his 'Crime Wave' quests. A whole bunch of content was locked off if you didn't put a point in pickpocketing and a point in stealth before meeting him for the first time.

If class and specialization did factor into a quest, I'd prefer it if it meant going about a quest in a different way and not it being unavailable.

So you didn't like Dragon age Origins mechanics, because you couldn't do everything the first time you play killing all the replayability there is?

[MILK FOR THE KHORNE FLAKES]

CERTAINLY class MAKES A LOT OF SENSE, PARTICULARLY WHEN BEING A MAGE OR NOT IS SO SALIENT TO THE SETTING.

RE: THE QUNARI THING, I AGREE THAT IT WOULD MAKE SENSE FOR A QUNARI TO TREAT MALES AND FEMALES DIFFERENTLY. HOWEVER, IT WOULDN'T BE A STRICT "WOMEN ARE RESPECTED LESS" THING, BECAUSE THAT'S NOT HOW QUNARI SEXISM WORKS.

[Eternal Phoenix]

^
Aye I know. They don't view women as warriors is all.

Also, I want my milk back...

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

It would be great to see gender, occupation, race, ect matter. It does make a tangled mess for the people writing dialogues and it becomes even more complex with voice acting, especially with the voiced protagonist and a variety of reactions, accents and possible emotes made in the vast variety of conditions a player can dream up.

[Ponendus]

The problem with this is statistics. If BioWare chooses to make plot points that only matter to a particular gender, they need to consider what percentage of players play that gender. Then they need to consider how much development time they want to contribute towards creating something that only x% of players will ever see.

I totally agree that it would be awesome, but there are alot of difficulties with it. Perhaps a way to get around it, would be to play a companion of the correct of the gender if your protagonist was not of that gender? We have 'taken over' companions in DA before, such as rescuing the warden from prison in DAO. That seemed to work. The criticism of it is that it creates a disconnect from the player and the protagonist when you do it. Things to think about anyway.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Ponendus wrote...

The problem with this is statistics. If BioWare chooses to make plot points that only matter to a particular gender, they need to consider what percentage of players play that gender. Then they need to consider how much development time they want to contribute towards creating something that only x% of players will ever see.

I totally agree that it would be awesome, but there are alot of difficulties with it. Perhaps a way to get around it, would be to play a companion of the correct of the gender if your protagonist was not of that gender? We have 'taken over' companions in DA before, such as rescuing the warden from prison in DAO. That seemed to work. The criticism of it is that it creates a disconnect from the player and the protagonist when you do it. Things to think about anyway.

If there is no difference at all then I think traditional preference statistics apply. However, when the changes to gender, class and specialization lead to different gameplay and/or storylines then there is likely to be a shift in that. But I am not sure, it almost feels like the chicken and egg problem.

When I look at DA2 then I think most of us can agree that playing a mage was silly. You were not hunted like all the other mages. You were not even recognized when you threw fireballs around, wore a robe and carried a staff. Blood magic wasn't recognized either. Even merchants were allowed to sell blood mage gear in the open just a couple of yards away from Meredith's office.

By implementing gameplay and story changes or accents based on your class and specialization all of the above sillyness could have been avoided. The same goes for the gender samples in the OP. It would not only create a believable world and promote replayability, it would also remove all the rationalizations to keep the story railroaded.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Elton John is dead wrote...

I remember that the City Elf origin in DA:O played out slightly differently if you were a female and I remember there being some dialogue exclusive options for male and female characters but in Dragon Age 2 I don't really remember encountering anything exclusive to a gender. Genders in recent Bioware games feel to be becoming more like purely aesthetic choices. Hell, this seems to be trend for all recent RPG's. How about including options like this for DA3:

• You have to sneak into some random Chantry. Since the priests are women only a woman character can do this.
• Qunari don't view women as warriors. When encountering Qunari as a woman, they should remark upon such and gaining respect from the Qunari should therefore be much harder than it already is.

Just two examples but I'd imagine that more situations and events could be made different based on your character's gender and there could be simple differences in dialogue too. I hope your gender in the next DA game actually means you get a slightly different experience otherwise your choice in gender simply roles down to seeing a different appearance with another voice.

I also recall Origins having a certain chain of quests becoming avaliable only if you had a certain thievery level. I believe more stuff like this should be in Dragon Age 3 but for specialization and class instead. This means that each playthrough will truly be different especially if you're playing a new gender, class and specialization each time.

It's already been suggested by devs that they want specialisations to matter in the next game. There have been hints of spec-specific quests. This will be cool, so long as people find a spec they want to take (in my first run of DA2, I didn't find any of the warrior specs desirable or in character for my PC so I never took one).

I don't think a class-based quest is necessary in light of spec quests, but it'd still be cool. Let's face it, we always like to get more stuff. Just so long as they're more creative quests than the cliched warriors = kill stuff, rogues = steal stuff, mages = something with magic. Then we can probably do without, heh.

I'd love to see some gender-based stuff though. City Elf became my favourite Origin because of that. I was actually a little disappointed with Mark of the Assassin where you can attempt to flirt/seduce someone to get their keys, and you're successful regardless of gender. It's probably an inclusion thing, the devs don't want anyone to miss out just because they're playing F or M, but I'd much prefer to have my game character fail because of what they are once in a while and be forced to try a different method, than always always get the same outcome as either gender. I won't cry if it never happens, though. After all, I grew up with RPGs where gender was little more than a ♀ / ♂ on the character sheet, and all it did was change a few pronouns and titles. Maybe one NPC would kiss your hand instead of bow. But that was it. *shrug* Romances didn't exist either.

[HighMoon]

Hmm... Interesting. I'd like if there were different things you could do (aside from LI's) depending on gender. No locked content or anything like that.. Just a different route to take (think the city elf origin). And of course people reacting to your gender (unscrupulous men hitting on your female character for example, and you being given the option to ignore them or kick their ass)

And also people reacting to your class; I think Meredith was the only Templar in DA2 who so much as acknowledged that fact that I was an apostate. Of course, DAO wasn't even that much better in this regard, but DG said that's cause a Mage being a grey warden causes less of a kerfuffle or something.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Ponendus wrote...

The problem with this is statistics. If BioWare chooses to make plot points that only matter to a particular gender, they need to consider what percentage of players play that gender. Then they need to consider how much development time they want to contribute towards creating something that only x% of players will ever see.

I totally agree that it would be awesome, but there are alot of difficulties with it. Perhaps a way to get around it, would be to play a companion of the correct of the gender if your protagonist was not of that gender? We have 'taken over' companions in DA before, such as rescuing the warden from prison in DAO. That seemed to work. The criticism of it is that it creates a disconnect from the player and the protagonist when you do it. Things to think about anyway.

The same can be said for The Witcher 2 and yet it achieved good success for leading players to different paths based on their choices. Other areas would be locked off as a result and the player would miss the hours of content associated with them which means they'd need to replay to experience everything. Why should Dragon Age 3 be any different? It shouldn't be created for the gamers who rush through a game expecting to do everything in their first go and afterwards sell the game.

Hint:

The Witcher 2 was well recieved by fans and critics alike. Dragon Age 2 wasn't as much especially when compared to its predecessor.

class, gender and your specializations should have more impact than just changing gameplay slightly (something that gender doesn't effect). The decision as to what your class and gender are should be choices themselves which could lead to content that another gender or class won't aquire. As I explained above though, this doesn't mean that one gender or class would be locked out of said content but one gender or class might be able to beat said content in a different way and thus experience a different path.

It's not like I'm asking for a massive plot line for each class, gender and specialization but I do want my choices for these three subjects to be noted even if only several times. How hard can it be to note these choices several time? There were events that happened in Origins based on your origins and other origins wouldn't experience them. This made Origins popular not the opposite.

Now all Bioware need to do is include a few different events based on your gender, class (there's only three) and maybe certain specializations. It shouldn't be too hard to do and if Mr.Speed doesn't like it then tough. RPG's are meant to be about choices and everything down to the class and gender you pick should matter.

I know it's been hinted that specializations will have some impact and that pleases me. The blood mage specialization is certainly something that needs to be noted upon when you learn it and I'd imagine other specializations that the player may learn could also lead to different content.

I'd imagine the mage class will also have more mage-specific content. Maybe you'll encounter some templars who attack you on sight because you're a mage. These same templars might talk to a rogue or warrior character. Some might say it's locking out content but I'd say it's adding believability to the game. I don't want to play a mage who is treated like a warrior or rogue. It has to be different. Likewise, rogues and warriors could also have certain content or dialogue associated with them. Warriors might have a option to break a metal door down whereas a mage or rogue would be too weak to do so and will need to find an alternative way past.

As a rogue you might find a quest where literal stealth comes into play where a warrior or mage would need to complete this quest in an alternative way.

I mean if we go by statistics...well statistics say that most players don't even finish games. Should Bioware therefore make Dragon Age 3 without an ending? At one point in the game the main quest just vanishes. Statistics can't always be trusted or acted upon. Many people play as female characters just as they would male characters. I myself always play through an RPG at least once - if not twice - as a female character. Might as well tell Bioware to take away the choice if gender if we go by statistics which say male characters are the ones most players create...

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 25 avril 2012 - 07:55 .

[Ponendus]

Elton John is dead wrote...

The Witcher 2 was well recieved by fans and critics alike. Dragon Age 2 wasn't as much especially when compared to its predecessor.

Yes but I think the reasons for that are not related to the one we are discussing here.

Elton John is dead wrote...

As I explained above though, this doesn't mean that one gender or class would be locked out of said content but one gender or class might be able to beat said content in a different way and thus experience a different path.

Yes, I agree with this. Like I said, it is something that the developers are bound to consider, creative ways to get around the issue are more likely to be considered rather than locking people out of content dependent on their gender etc.

Elton John is dead wrote...

How hard can it be to note these choices several time? There were events that happened in Origins based on your origins and other origins wouldn't experience them. This made Origins popular not the opposite.

Yes but are you just asking for one thing? The difference between Origins and this discussion is that people are asking for more than just the origins, they also want gender, and class, and specialisations. Aren't we not getting to a point where there is more than just the first few hours of a 50+ hour game that is exclusive? Of course, the plus side is that it will stimulate multiple playthroughs, but the developers will still need to consider if that is worth it.

Elton John is dead wrote...

 It shouldn't be too hard to do and if Mr.Speed doesn't like it then tough. RPG's are meant to be about choices and everything down to the class and gender you pick should matter.

See the thing is I don't think it would be hard to do at all. I wonder if it is worth it. If BioWare gets to a point where 25% of the game is content based on exclusive choices, I can understand them reconsidering it. This is why I wonder if there isn't a way to experience the content regardless of your choices, but just experience it a different way (such as my suggestion of taking control of a follower). Also I don't think it is wise to discount Mr Speed. Mr Speed is a paying customer just like everyone else, what you believe an RPG is 'meant to be' is sadly not the norm these days, there are some tides you just can't fight against. Also, these suggestions you make do not only affect 'Mr Speed'. For example, I don't ever replay Dragon Age in different ways (completely). I have my one story that I have played through from the begininng. I may load a save and make a different choice just to see what would happen out of interest, but I don't play through making different choices. So that means, under your scenario, there could be alot of content that I never get to see. I am a roleplayer and I don't see my way of doing things as any less justified as one that does replay with different choices.

Elton John is dead wrote...
I know it's been hinted that specializations will have some impact and that pleases me. The blood mage specialization is certainly something that needs to be noted upon when you learn it and I'd imagine other specializations that the player may learn could also lead to different content.

I don't think there is anyone that thinks this is a bad idea. These differences in choice certainly need to be acknowledged, the question is to what extent?

Elton John is dead wrote...
As a rogue you might find a quest where literal stealth comes into play where a warrior or mage would need to complete this quest in an alternative way.

Yes this is absolutely the best way to handle it. Totally agree.

Elton John is dead wrote...
I mean if we go by statistics...well statistics say that most players don't even finish games. Should Bioware therefore make Dragon Age 3 without an ending? At one point in the game the main quest just vanishes. Statistics can't always be trusted or acted upon.

This is an absurdity and not at all what I was implying. Whether convenient for your argument or not, statistics do make an impact on the decisions of developers. If you think that making decisions based on desire without considering the facts is a sound idea, then I really don't know what you believe about how businesses run.

Elton John is dead wrote...
Many people play as female characters just as they would male characters.

How many?

Elton John is dead wrote...
I myself always play through an RPG at least once - if not twice - as a female character. Might as well tell Bioware to take away the choice if gender if we go by statistics which say male characters are the ones most players create...

No that is not the solution. The solution is to decide how much of an impact that choice would have. 

[Eternal Phoenix]

Ponendus wrote...

Yes but I think the reasons for that are not related to the one we are discussing here.

Not but it too locked content off based on your choices and no one complained about that.

Ponendus wrote... 

Yes, I agree with this. Like I said, it is something that the developers are bound to consider, creative ways to get around the issue are more likely to be considered rather than locking people out of content dependent on their gender etc.

Well I was never implying that wanted complete plots and quests to be locked dependent on gender but if one quest is only avaliable for one gender I still don't see the problem in that. There's things that only a woman can do and things that only a man can do when it concerns certain individuals.

Ponendus wrote... 

Yes but are you just asking for one thing? The difference between Origins and this discussion is that people are asking for more than just the origins, they also want gender, and class, and specialisations. Aren't we not getting to a point where there is more than just the first few hours of a 50+ hour game that is exclusive? Of course, the plus side is that it will stimulate multiple playthroughs, but the developers will still need to consider if that is worth it.

No, the origins influenced certain dialogue and even gave way to optional side quests. There's no reason why class, specialization and gender can't do so too. Unless Bioware are truly going the way of "everyone in Thedas is bisexual" then I guess females and males can have the same dialogue but in some situations there should be differences in dialogue and the Qunari should certainly have gender specific dialogue. I recall Sten having gender specific dialogue (I swear he even mentions you being female) but not the Arishocker. The Arishocker doesn't even mention that you're a female warrior which is something that Sten does and also to other female members in your group.

I don't know if the Airshocker being silent about your gender was intended or if it was the case of the game being rush. If it's the later then I can expect it to be amended in the next game if we encounter Qunari again which I think we no doubt will.

Ponendus wrote... 

See the thing is I don't think it would be hard to do at all. I wonder if it is worth it. If BioWare gets to a point where 25% of the game is content based on exclusive choices, I can understand them reconsidering it. This is why I wonder if there isn't a way to experience the content regardless of your choices, but just experience it a different way (such as my suggestion of taking control of a follower). Also I don't think it is wise to discount Mr Speed. Mr Speed is a paying customer just like everyone else, what you believe an RPG is 'meant to be' is sadly not the norm these days, there are some tides you just can't fight against. Also, these suggestions you make do not only affect 'Mr Speed'. For example, I don't ever replay Dragon Age in different ways (completely). I have my one story that I have played through from the begininng. I may load a save and make a different choice just to see what would happen out of interest, but I don't play through making different choices. So that means, under your scenario, there could be alot of content that I never get to see. I am a roleplayer and I don't see my way of doing things as any less justified as one that does replay with different choices.

Mr.Speed also made it so that Dragon Age 2 had less sales than Origins. Mr.Speed is also the reason why Dragon Age 3 will sell less - at first - than both games. Mr.Speed sucks. So in this case if money is all that Bioware cares about then listening to Mr.Speed isn't the way to go. Dragon Age: Origins is considered by many to be a role playing epic whereas few even call Dragon Age 2 great let alone epic. I can imagine people talking about Origins for years to come just like with Mass Effect 1 but I see few people talking about Dragon Age 2 in years to come.

I don't see how 25% of the game will be locked off based on the player's choice in gender, class and specialization. All I'm asking is for the three to be recognized either through dialogue or through the ability to complete a quest in a certain way. If DA3 included class or gender specific quests then all the better in my opinion. I'm not asking for many class or gender specific quests but if we came across one or two then that'd be good in my opinion. One or two extra quests based on your class, gender or specialization is hardly 25% of the game.

Ponendus wrote... 
I don't think there is anyone that thinks this is a bad idea. These differences in choice certainly need to be acknowledged, the question is to what extent?

Blood mages definitely need some sort of plot involving the templars or perhaps the demon that made a pact with themselves. At the very least I'd like to see some people note that I'm a blood mage.

Ponendus wrote... 

This is an absurdity and not at all what I was implying. Whether convenient for your argument or not, statistics do make an impact on the decisions of developers. If you think that making decisions based on desire without considering the facts is a sound idea, then I really don't know what you believe about how businesses run.

Then not all statistics should and not all statistics can be reliable as I proved. Then again maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Bioware did listen to the statistics about players not completing games. Perhaps that's the reason why Bioware rushed the "endings" of Mass Effect 3 for Mr.Speed. We all know how that went and Mr.Speed doesn't care and he's back on Call of Duty now.

If Bioware truly listen to the statistics then they would be producing a game similar to Origins. From their hints it sounds like Dragon Age 3 will be more like Origins in terms of gameplay and they're even bringing back a form of companion customization which is a plus for me. So who knows what they're listening too. They are certainly going their own way at the same time though.

Ponendus wrote...  
How many?

God knows but I do know that female Shepard has a massive fan following which should prove something. Even if only 30% play female that's still much if millions buy the game. Based on female Shepard's popularity I'd say that much more play a female character or at least give it a try. Bioware recognized this which is why there was a trailer dedicated to a female Shepard and let's not forget Bioware giving a default female Shepard a more iconic and unique look. Asides from that and Bioware also included a female Shepard on the reverse of the cover art of Mass Effect 3 for those that prefer her to a male Shepard.

They went to all that work for her so I'd say that could do something similar for Dragon Age 3 but focus more on the impact in the game even if it's only a few dialogue differences or a few dialogue choices that come up during conversation that are gender specific.

Bioware had a few good ideas with Dragon Age 2. I remember there being mage specific dialogue/actions in some points and you could even call upon your companions in some circumstances. Perhaps Bioware are going to make dialogue much more varied in Dragon Age 3 based on your gender and class. Perhaps they wanted to do such for Dragon Age 2 but because it was rushed out they never had the chance. Aye it's not up to me or anyone else about what goes into the game but I can hope and wish that Bioware include at least something noting your choices in subject we are discussing.

[Ponendus]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Mr.Speed also made it so that Dragon Age 2 had less sales than Origins. Mr.Speed is also the reason why Dragon Age 3 will sell less - at first - than both games. Mr.Speed sucks. So in this case if money is all that Bioware cares about then listening to Mr.Speed isn't the way to go. Dragon Age: Origins is considered by many to be a role playing epic whereas few even call Dragon Age 2 great let alone epic. I can imagine people talking about Origins for years to come just like with Mass Effect 1 but I see few people talking about Dragon Age 2 in years to come.

I entirely agree with you that Mr Speed seems to be ruining things for us. I wonder, what did you think about the way that the 'story mode/action mode/normal mode' was implemented in ME3? I thought that was a quite a clever way to cater to a variety of gamers. We all know about the comments that one of the very good developers here at Bioware made about wishing there was minimal combat and instead focussed on story - that was catered for in ME3. We also had Mr. Speed being catered for through 'Action Mode', and the rest of us that just wanted a balance were catered for too.

Discarding the ending for a second because none of us will know what actually drove them to decide that was the way to go (I personally don't have nearly as much of a problem with that ending as the rest of the world - but I certainly see I'm in the minority there), is this something that could help to cater for all in Dragon Age?

It is a little off-topic, but these sorts of options that you choose right from the start may be creatively used to incorporate some of the suggestions here about gender, race etc impacts. How I don't know, I'll think about it.

[Ponendus]

Elton John is dead wrote...

God knows but I do know that female Shepard has a massive fan following which should prove something. Even if only 30% play female that's still much if millions buy the game. Based on female Shepard's popularity I'd say that much more play a female character or at least give it a try. Bioware recognized this which is why there was a trailer dedicated to a female Shepard and let's not forget Bioware giving a default female Shepard a more iconic and unique look. Asides from that and Bioware also included a female Shepard on the reverse of the cover art of Mass Effect 3 for those that prefer her to a male Shepard.

So just because I'm bored it occurs to me to explore this a little more. It appears there are some statistics, take a look here. Now although the validity of these results could be argued, let's just assume for arguments sake they are true.

According to the results, 18% of ME3 players played as female. How does BioWare cater to, and provide reaction to this choice. Do they create a quest line that only occurs if you are female? If so how long should the questline be? Every development hour would cost the company dollars, and they are spending it on only 18% of their fanbase right? This isn't to say they shouldn't cater to it at all, but it does make one wonder if asking for exclusive content is justified. Even if it is, should it really be anything beyond, say, one quest? Then again, if you include more content would it inspire more people to play another gender, thus boosting the statistic up to a much more substantial number. I guess the question is, is BioWare the kind of company to put the cart before the horse?

What I find interesting is the class statistics, only 3% of players play an Engineer class. Now how much development time should be spent on that group to make them special?

I am not saying they shouldn't acknowledge choices, but I think some people's (not you, just some) expectations about the extent to which they should acknowledge it are a little high. I like choices and consequences more than anything else in gaming, let's hope that DA3 is about putting the cart before the horse, because I think those numbers are soft, and strong creative minds at BioWare can inspire change. Reacting to statistics is one method, raising them proactively is, I suppose, another.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Ponendus wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Mr.Speed also made it so that Dragon Age 2 had less sales than Origins. Mr.Speed is also the reason why Dragon Age 3 will sell less - at first - than both games. Mr.Speed sucks. So in this case if money is all that Bioware cares about then listening to Mr.Speed isn't the way to go. Dragon Age: Origins is considered by many to be a role playing epic whereas few even call Dragon Age 2 great let alone epic. I can imagine people talking about Origins for years to come just like with Mass Effect 1 but I see few people talking about Dragon Age 2 in years to come.

I entirely agree with you that Mr Speed seems to be ruining things for us. I wonder, what did you think about the way that the 'story mode/action mode/normal mode' was implemented in ME3? I thought that was a quite a clever way to cater to a variety of gamers. We all know about the comments that one of the very good developers here at Bioware made about wishing there was minimal combat and instead focussed on story - that was catered for in ME3. We also had Mr. Speed being catered for through 'Action Mode', and the rest of us that just wanted a balance were catered for too.

Discarding the ending for a second because none of us will know what actually drove them to decide that was the way to go (I personally don't have nearly as much of a problem with that ending as the rest of the world - but I certainly see I'm in the minority there), is this something that could help to cater for all in Dragon Age?

It is a little off-topic, but these sorts of options that you choose right from the start may be creatively used to incorporate some of the suggestions here about gender, race etc impacts. How I don't know, I'll think about it.

Those three modes were Bioware's attempt the cater to different crowds and I guess all crowds got what they wanted save for role players. Two dialogue choices and lots of auto-dialogue isn't exactly what I'd call deep for an RPG. I personally don't know why they removed the three dialogue options but I hope this isn't the future of Dragon Age 3 which I hope doesn't contain as much auto-dialogue. 

If Dragon Age 3 doesn't have some further dumbed down dialogue wheel then I'll be happy and they can do what they like with other modes and Mr.Speed can choose action mode or whatever he wants. Makes me wonder if Bioware are thinking of implementing different modes in Dragon Age 3...

Dragon Age 3 as an action game? God forbid. Well so long as I get my RPG mode I'd be happy and I guess Mr.Speed will be too.

[Orian Tabris]

Well, there was the ability for Sebastian to almost bring up him being with Hawke, if Hawke was female. Though there was no option for a male Hawke to suggest something similar, during that same conversation.

[Vovea]

Chrumpek wrote...

So you didn't like Dragon age Origins mechanics, because you couldn't do everything the first time you play killing all the replayability there is?

Did I say I didn't like Dragon Age Origins mechanics?

I thought putting two skills into pickpocketing and stealth was a waste on my mage and I wish there was another way to be able to access the Crime Wave quests that was designed for different classes.

I also disagree that it would kill replayability. If a quest was accessable via a certain method for say a mage, it'd be different for a rogue. Replayability without locking off content.

Elton John is dead wrote...

There's certain items that only a certain gender can equip

Unless this involves enchanted jockstraps for men only, no thanks.

Elton John is dead wrote...

Your choices amounted to nothing really save for getting different
dialogue or an extra side quest here and there but what I want is for
paths to become open that provide more lengthy content. Such a system
doesn't need to be simply restricted to choices and their consequences,
such a system could also work based on the player's class,
specialization and gender.

I agree there is a lack of replayability but I don't agree that it should be the main character's gender that makes that difference. Personality types, how the protagonist answers questions and solves problems, etc, that's what makes them a character. I think placing an importance on gender would take away from that, not add to it. However, like I said before, making the character's specialization and class more related to a quest could be interesting.

[Xerxes52]

Gender? Maybe a few lines of dialogue, but no locked out content (except for hetero romance options of course).

class? Yes. I'd like people to comment on that and have some unique ways of handling situations.

Specialization? Absolutely. I'd go as far as suggesting that each specialization has a unique quest to earn that spec, and maybe another down the line to expand out the tree even further (I think that the protag should only get one spec instead of two, but said spec should be larger and more involved than the regular ability trees). You should have unique dialogue options dependent on what spec you chose.

Modifié par Xerxes52, 25 avril 2012 - 06:27 .

[Heather-Shepard]

Ponendus wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

God knows but I do know that female Shepard has a massive fan following which should prove something. Even if only 30% play female that's still much if millions buy the game. Based on female Shepard's popularity I'd say that much more play a female character or at least give it a try. Bioware recognized this which is why there was a trailer dedicated to a female Shepard and let's not forget Bioware giving a default female Shepard a more iconic and unique look. Asides from that and Bioware also included a female Shepard on the reverse of the cover art of Mass Effect 3 for those that prefer her to a male Shepard.

So just because I'm bored it occurs to me to explore this a little more. It appears there are some statistics, take a look here. Now although the validity of these results could be argued, let's just assume for arguments sake they are true.

According to the results, 18% of ME3 players played as female. How does BioWare cater to, and provide reaction to this choice. Do they create a quest line that only occurs if you are female? If so how long should the questline be? Every development hour would cost the company dollars, and they are spending it on only 18% of their fanbase right? This isn't to say they shouldn't cater to it at all, but it does make one wonder if asking for exclusive content is justified. Even if it is, should it really be anything beyond, say, one quest? Then again, if you include more content would it inspire more people to play another gender, thus boosting the statistic up to a much more substantial number. I guess the question is, is BioWare the kind of company to put the cart before the horse?

What I find interesting is the class statistics, only 3% of players play an Engineer class. Now how much development time should be spent on that group to make them special?

I am not saying they shouldn't acknowledge choices, but I think some people's (not you, just some) expectations about the extent to which they should acknowledge it are a little high. I like choices and consequences more than anything else in gaming, let's hope that DA3 is about putting the cart before the horse, because I think those numbers are soft, and strong creative minds at BioWare can inspire change. Reacting to statistics is one method, raising them proactively is, I suppose, another.

Female engineer here, defying statistics as usual.  I was not included in that statistic, and neither were most people.  This is where statistics lie - they probably got those numbers based on a very small sample group which does little to represent everyone who actually played mass effect.  I'm sure if they literally included everyone playing the game, those numbers would be way off.  My husband also played as femshep, vanguard class by the way.  He always plays as a female when given the choice, including in his dragon age games.  He just prefers to, and he wasn't included in that statistic either.  While businesses do consider statistics, they are also very aware of these problems with statistics and know better than to take the numbers too literally. 

One of the things I like about Bioware is that they go out of their way to appeal to all types of people with all types of preferences.  I doubt they will let such statistics skew thier decisions in the development of DA3, at least I hope not...

[Agent_Dark_]

I don't see why they need to 'lock out' choices based on gender/class/spec. IMO every choice should be available to everyone - whether or not you can succeed at it should depend on your gender/class/spec. I don't want a conversation wheel choice absolutely deciding what I can or can't do.

Eg 1, instead of a 'Flirt' option during conversation with a female NPC only being available to a male character, it's available to all characters. If a female player character choose it though, the NPC might not react favourably at all. Women in real-life aren't arbitrarily locked out of attempting to flirt with other women after all... Of course the chances of success might be a fair bit lower.

Eg 2, NPC gives you a 'thief' quest. You are a warrior or a mage. Nothing stops you from accepting the quest, however when it comes time to steal the loot from the locked chests you are obviously going to struggle. So then you might have to go back to the NPC with your tail between your legs unless you can find another way to do the quest (bring a thief party member, use a scroll of lockpicking, use diplomacy/charm/intimidate to obtain a key or whatever).