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MP store poll and idea compendium


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#1
greghorvath

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THE POLL HAS BEEN CLOSED. THANKS FOR VOTING AND ALL YOUR IDEAS.



I like the random drop store system. 8%(79 votes) 
I like the random drop store system and have spent real money on packs. 5%(52 votes)
I do not like the random drop store system. 9%(89 votes)
I do not like the random drop store system, but I have spent real money on packs. 6%(60 votes)
Option 1 + but I would never spend real money in an in game store. 12%(121 votes)
Option 3 + and I would never spend real money in an in game store. 11%(111 votes)
Option 1 or 2 + but I would prefer a system where I knew what I was buying. 10%(106 votes)
Option 3 or 4 + and I would prefer a system where I knew what I was buying. 18%(185 votes)
Option 1 or 2 + I would probably spend (more) real money in a system where I knew that I was buying. 6%(56 votes)
Option 3 or 4 + but I would probably spend (more) real money in a system where I knew what I was buying. 16%(159 votes)

This was the poll situation at 15:14 CET on 15.06.2012. With 1018 votes, the poll was 92nd most voted poll on the BSN at the time.

First, I want to thank everyone that took a little time to vote and thank those even more that commented and posted in the idea compendium thread.

A special thanks goes out to ThinLizzy92, who went as far as to include a link to the poll in her signature! A big thanks to ABjerre, Stinja and Ismadiis, who helped with regular bumps.  

Second, I have to say that I am not unreservedly happy. It took the community nearly 2 months to reach 1000 votes, which is rather pathetic in the light of the intensity of emotions towards the store, and the fact that the ending debate generated tens of thousands of votes in several polls in less time. More importantly it generated an organised cooperation and unified effort from thousands of people in and out of the BSN. I wasn’t expecting a movement of this magnitude, but to tell the truth I was expecting a certain extent of focus and at least some help from like-minded gamers. There was neither. This may be caused by several things from my personal lack of  appeal, through the complicated nature of the poll, to just a simple lack of community interest. I will not try to find the actual cause for this because, to be frank, I do not feel it is worth my time.

On an even more personal note, I am done with being an active forumite. It makes me very sad that people have so misunderstood the name of this site and actually did turn it into the BS Network. The poll will not be closed for the time being but I will not be making updates here and will not monitor the poll any longer.

I will send Bioware QA the results and will let them decide what they do with the information. I am no longer dedicating any more of my time to this issue. If anyone wishes to take this task upon themselves, they are free to use this thread and poll data as they wish (i.e. if you want some change in the poll intro or in this thread: send me a message).

With that said, I will now make a few assumptions and statements based on the data above. Those that would wish to note things like "the BSN represents only a small fraction of MP gamers" will kindly refrain from doing so as the sample size is large enough to be considered representative.

The results pretty much speak for themselves. 41% likes or sort of likes the store and (for the sake of 100%) 59% percent wants it to change. This can be categorised as an EPIC FAIL. A product that is disliked by 59% of customers is not something any supplier can be happy with.

The fail proportions are just staggering if we take into account the fact that only 25% of people have stated they like store period. 75% percent wants some sort of a change. This is definitely not something to be satisfied with.

In earlier breakdowns I have given some assumptions regarding the money making potential increase of a possible store change, so I will not repeat these, those interested can just look them up.

The conclusion is very simple: if BioWare has any interest in keeping up the illusion that they listen to their fans, the store issue will have to be addressed in a radical way. A way that will have to be found or at least helped along by someone else than me.

greg out
______________________________________                      ___________________



IDEA COMPENDIUM

1. 

A tweak to the store, could be that when purchasing Spectre Packs with Bioware Points, they guarantee a random Untra Rare. This would give (some) people what they want (sretainty that they dont buy "nothing"), and Bioware a higher potential revenue per customer, as well as opening the possibility of repeat transactions, if new weapons are released in the future (new ultra rare weapons and or characters, customizations, you name it).

Even with a Spectre Pack guaranteing a random Ultra Rare card when bought with points (160 of them, roughly equal to $2),  the current amount of Ultra Rare weapons would represent a potential 7 *10 * 2 = $140 worth of packs. I highly doubt that people, who spend money in the store, on an average are spending more than that before they relize what is going on. (by courtesy of ABjerre)


2.

The store system would be vastly improved, and I would be tempted to spend real money on it, if there was a guarantee that you would always unlock something that you did not yet have unlocked - i.e. no more character cards when you've already unlocked every appearance option for that class. Keep the distribution of rarity as it is in each pack, and if you've already unlocked everything at the rarity for which your 3rd, 4th, or 5th item is supposed to be, award equipment instead.
E.g.- let's say that you buy a Recruit pack. The pool of common cards are the II-X upgrades for the five starting weapons, the I-V upgrades for the 13 common weapon mods, and the 3 appearance options for each human character for 146 unlocks total. After all of those options are unlocked, if you buy a pack that is supposed to include a common card, instead of re-awarding a character card with XP, award a "common" level of equipment instead - i.e. one consumable or one level I ammo/rail arm/armor equipment.

The same rules could easily apply to uncommons & rares as well. Uncommons would be 3 consumables/level II equipment and rares would be 5 consumables/level III equipment. This will ensure a smooth progression through Recruit->Veteran->Spectre packs and keep people buying & playing even after they get good gear due to the fact that the chances for an ultra-rare are still low, but it would prevent the rage from buying pack after pack just to keep getting useless XP - at least those players will be getting *something* and have significant amounts of high-level equipment to play around with (by courtesy of twxabfn)


3.

I think a better idea would be to offer an initial N7 weapon at a fixed price, similar to how some N7 weapons were offered in the single player.The price would be significantly higher than the cost of buying 10 PSP's dueto the guarantee and ability to choose which weapon you were buying. Off the top of my head, I think 10 million might be too high and 2 million would be too low. I think 2.5 million would be acceptable to most people, though I personally feel it should be a bit higher, maybe 3 or 4 million. (editor's note: price suggestion due later)
Now this pack only can be used once for each N7 weapon, and will give you a level 1 weapon. In truth, it will not help people who have already got their weapon of choice and are looking to upgrade said weapon. It will help people who have not got their favorite weapon such as a BW or whatever else a person might want. Any further upgrades would be left with the RNG and the normal store system. (by courtesy of ismadiis)


4.

Make getting awards for certain things a little more rewarding, this could tie in with the store. In example, if someone got 25 headshot kills in 5 conscecutive matches, then they might be rewarded with a voucher for a veteran pack, or even be given a choice of weapon upgrade after the mission. (by courtesy of @LD_Dragon


5.

To both expand game play, pad packs, and keep the money rolling what Bioware needs is to stop production on playable characters and weapon DLCs for the momment and create a system that allows the players to place modifications on those same files. Openning up a new a wider category of unlock/consumables that change enemy spawn rates, strenghts, composition, etc. Building the UI and setting up how these different elements will interact is no simple, but will add an element of chaos and unpredictability to a rather static game currently. Essentially it becomes a sanction way to tweek and generate custome game types within the current structure. (by courtesy of Dorje Sylas)


6.

2. Cap the number of non UR packs you can receive in a row 3. Award a UR for every 500 levels of N7 (this would encourage promoting and you wouldn't mind training so much) (by courtesy of Kai Peng)

7.

PSPshould start at 1% chance to get ur. Every pack you buy raises this chance by 1%. When you get an UR. it resets. This way you can still have good luck, but if your luck sucks, you at least know you will eventually get one by default. (by courtesy of xtorma)

8.

"Research Project" concept: It takes a certain amount of EXP to unlock the ability to purchase the weapon, and then it takes a set amount of credits to buy it too.
Weapons and equipment would scale with rarity and level. A level 1 Uncommon would not require nearly as much exp & credits to buy as a level 10 Ultra-Rare obviously...
For example:
I set the Saber IX as my research project. I need to get 1,500,000 personal experience (Only counting your score, not the whole team's) from games before it becomes available.
After I get the 1,500,000 personal experience I now have to pay to have it produced or shipped or whatever you want to call it. It costs $350,000-500,000 since it is an Ultra-Rare.
We still have to play a ton of matches to unlock stuff, but we can actually get the weapons we want! (At the cost of about 10 matches or around 3~ hours or so.)
Our Manifest could show what we were researching and maybe have a "Queue" where we could add multiple items to work towards. (by courtesy of Drummernate)


Modifié par greghorvath, 30 août 2012 - 01:32 .


#2
DasLeid

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Can't click the link. Don't want to copypasta ;)

#3
greghorvath

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As a bump, here is the momentary result (23.04.2012. 14.40 CET):

Like options: 52%
Dislike options: 48%

#4
Sofie1991

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Posted my entry :) I like the system, but would prefer one where I knew what I was buying :)
Also, nice poll, I hope bioware will take notice of the outcome and adjust something accordingly if it's at all necessary

Modifié par Sofie1991, 23 avril 2012 - 12:46 .


#5
Magicman10893

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As of now like and dislike are completely even. I voted for Option 3 or 4 + I would prefer a system where I knew what I was buying, however, I can come to a fair compromise. What if there were simply more diverse packs that narrowed things down a lot more. A pack for just weapons, weapon attachments and ammo/weapon equipment for example would help ease the problem of endless amounts of character cards when Gold weapons are maxed. Maybe even implement that ability to trade cards with each other in the lobby to try and get the weapons you want.

#6
greghorvath

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Thank you Sofie1991 (with the postive attitude: I remember your thank you thread earlier :)!

(If necessary) I am going to bump this thread regularly hoping to get a proper sample size so the conclusions we draw will have some validity. If there is ample data, BW will of course notice. They usually do! :)

#7
greghorvath

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Magicman10893 wrote...

*snip*


At the moment I am mainly interested in the opinion the community has on the issue. I am a bit surprised how many answer fall in the "like" category, but if the likes will be the majority, it is not timely to talk about changing the system. Hopefully, in time the "dislikes" will gain a considerable advantage and then we can start thinking about suggestions how things could be changed. Thanks for voting!

#8
Sofie1991

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Another possible thing they could do is allow us to buy the guns at lvl 1 for 1.000.000 credits, maybe 5.000.000 for ultra rares. So we can get the basic level of them yknow, I rly rly rly want a paladin and haven't gotten one so far. I'd gladly spend 5mill credits to get it at lvl 1.

But no upgrades in that store, only the basic level of the gun. If you want to upgrade your guns you'll still need the random packs, but at least you'll have the gun you wanted :D

#9
greghorvath

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Sofie1991 wrote...
*snip*

But no upgrades in that store, only the basic level of the gun. If you want to upgrade your guns you'll still need the random packs, but at least you'll have the gun you wanted :D


The problem with that is that N7 weapons are pretty much useless at lvl1. For example I have the Black Widow I, which I really love and basically I played to N7 +750 to acquire it. Unfortunately, my Mantis X outperforms it in every situation. I love the BW, but when I want to score, it is not the BW or my Widow V that I grab, but the Mantis.

Of course, if you are not a performance freak like me, you may think differently... :)

#10
Magicman10893

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greghorvath wrote...

Sofie1991 wrote...
*snip*

But no upgrades in that store, only the basic level of the gun. If you want to upgrade your guns you'll still need the random packs, but at least you'll have the gun you wanted :D


The problem with that is that N7 weapons are pretty much useless at lvl1. For example I have the Black Widow I, which I really love and basically I played to N7 +750 to acquire it. Unfortunately, my Mantis X outperforms it in every situation. I love the BW, but when I want to score, it is not the BW or my Widow V that I grab, but the Mantis.

Of course, if you are not a performance freak like me, you may think differently... :)


Well the way it seems to work is that once you unlock a gun you have a higher chance to unlock upgrades for it. For instance, I unlocked the Falcon 1 and Falcon 4 in the same day. A friend of mine got the Geth SMG 4 times in a row after getting the first version of it from regular Spectre packs (he doesn't even have all the rares either if it makes helps clear up my point).

#11
greghorvath

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Magicman10893 wrote...

*snip*


There are theories, but random is pretty much random. I was at about N7 680 when I got the BW. Not at 760, about 50 special packs later I have received no upgrade. Or if we take the Widow, I have almost every rare weapon at lvl X (maybe 10-12 more upgrades to go) 5 of which is the Widow. 

(I am singling out sniper rifles because I play infiltrator every chance I get)

#12
greghorvath

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Hmmm. Only every 3rd person that views the poll actually votes. I wonder why that is... :blink:

Modifié par greghorvath, 23 avril 2012 - 01:21 .


#13
Magicman10893

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greghorvath wrote...

Magicman10893 wrote...

*snip*


There are theories, but random is pretty much random. I was at about N7 680 when I got the BW. Not at 760, about 50 special packs later I have received no upgrade. Or if we take the Widow, I have almost every rare weapon at lvl X (maybe 10-12 more upgrades to go) 5 of which is the Widow. 

(I am singling out sniper rifles because I play infiltrator every chance I get)


That just seems to be the pattern I noticed. In the news article about the guy that spent $100 on packs he just kept getting the Widow after unlocking the first 1. He ended up somewhere around Widow Vi by the time it was over.

#14
greghorvath

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Magicman10893 wrote...

That just seems to be the pattern I noticed. In the news article about the guy that spent $100 on packs he just kept getting the Widow after unlocking the first 1. He ended up somewhere around Widow Vi by the time it was over.


I can't find the reference for you, but I saw someone explain in a thread that if you buy consecutive packs back to back, you have a bigger chance of getting the same item (=upgrades), because in order to not overstrain the servers the random number generator actually needs a few seconds to generate a random number. Being the computer illiterate that I am, this sounds plausible, but may be total garabage as well... B)

#15
greghorvath

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Update (23.02.2012. 16.20 CET): Likes and Dislikes are head to head.

The ratio of votes/views is around 1/4.

#16
twxabfn

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The store system would be vastly improved, and I would be tempted to spend real money on it, if there was a guarantee that you would always unlock something that you did not yet have unlocked - i.e. no more character cards when you've already unlocked every appearance option for that class. Keep the distribution of rarity as it is in each pack, and if you've already unlocked everything at the rarity for which your 3rd, 4th, or 5th item is supposed to be, award equipment instead.

E.g. - let's say that you buy a Recruit pack. The pool of common cards are the II-X upgrades for the five starting weapons, the I-V upgrades for the 13 common weapon mods, and the 3 appearance options for each human character for 146 unlocks total. After all of those options are unlocked, if you buy a pack that is supposed to include a common card, instead of re-awarding a character card with XP, award a "common" level of equipment instead - i.e. one consumable or one level I ammo/rail arm/armor equipment.

The same rules could easily apply to uncommons & rares as well. Uncommons would be 3 consumables/level II equipment and rares would be 5 consumables/level III equipment. This will ensure a smooth progression through Recruit->Veteran->Spectre packs and keep people buying & playing even after they get good gear due to the fact that the chances for an ultra-rare are still low, but it would prevent the rage from buying pack after pack just to keep getting useless XP - at least those players will be getting *something* and have significant amounts of high-level equipment to play around with.

#17
mrcanada

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The people who voted for liking the random drop system obviously haven't maxed many weapons or played MP very long. Fact.

#18
greghorvath

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The split is still even at 20.00 CET 23.04.2012

The vote/view ratio has however improved to more than 1/3.

#19
Ihateyou111

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I didn't vote on my first view because I wasn't logged in. Though IMHO the main reason people aren't voting would probably be that they feel it's futile, even if Bioware saw it and wanted to change the system (despite the amount of work it would entail), EA wouldn't let them. I've got a feeling that the random drop was EA's idea in the first place, and I'd bet money on the "endless character cards" being theirs as well.

#20
greghorvath

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Ihateyou111 wrote...

I didn't vote on my first view because I wasn't logged in. Though IMHO the main reason people aren't voting would probably be that they feel it's futile, even if Bioware saw it and wanted to change the system (despite the amount of work it would entail), EA wouldn't let them. I've got a feeling that the random drop was EA's idea in the first place, and I'd bet money on the "endless character cards" being theirs as well.


Thanks for your comment. We are not at the stage where it can be said to be futile, because right now, all we want to know is where the community stands regarding the issue. If the result will not show a significant majority on the side of those who dislike the current system, there is really not great incentive to take any action, is there?

Right now, we are just gathering information and a littlebit more of that is never futile! :D

#21
LadyAlekto

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needs he option "a store that stops unneded ccards when classes are maxxed out and at level 20

#22
january42

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Personally, I think they should change the system so it doesn't drop maxed stuff. For me, that kills any motivation to spend real money. If I was getting something new in every pack, I might do it. But right now, if you have all the gold weapons maxed, your chances of getting something new are under 5%. No way is that worth it.


If the system does not drop stuff you have maxed, then, even with random drops. If you don't get what you want, you are closer to getting what you want. That isn't true with the current system really. And the fact that it isn't just kills any desire to spend real money.

#23
greghorvath

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Last bump on 23.04.2012 at CET 22:40

The poll is standing at 54% against and 46% on the side of the current store system.

The sample size is still rather small (at 120 votes), but the vote/view shows slight improvement.

Thanks for voting, posting and all.

#24
Mojenator12345

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I like the random system, but concur with others here that there is just too much crap in the current system. I understand (and even appreciate) that BW doesn't want everybody to get all the good stuff right away, but they don't need to derp the distribution to quite this extent. The ratio of useful stuff/worthless crap is just out of whack.

#25
atum

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This really should be two, three, or more questions.

1) Do you like / dislike
2) Have you spent money?
3) Would you spend money if condition X
4) Would you spend money if condition Y

etc.

You're probably getting people leaving the poll because they CBA to decipher it.

Not that it's complicated, but it reads like a reading comprehension test question.

"If two trains left Atlanta at 4:02 pm...."