407 réponses à ce sujet

[IAMREALITY]

greghorvath wrote...

ABjerre wrote...

IAMREALITY wrote...

It's hilarious how you think that's representative. No matter how many on this board voted it still wouldn't be. The epic fail is your poll, as it was from the start.

I think it is always nice to see an oppinion that counters the one that i have, because it offers the potential of broadening my perspective.

I would really appreciate it, if you would care to elaborate as to why you think that the poll was a fail from the start, so please enlighten us. Consider that it has already been discussed that asking on these forums are the only avalible option, even though having a sample that also included the less active players would be favourable.

Don't mind him Abjerre. IAMREALITY is just trolling again. He likes that. He does display sporadical signs of intelligence, but I am still not convinced.

It really is such a moronic suggestion when someone labels another a troll merely because they strongly disagree.  You just don't like that fact that I'm right, and that your precious poll means bunk.

[Qeylis]

Don't feed the trolls.

[greghorvath]

Qeylis wrote...

Don't feed the trolls.

Wasn't that what I wrote?

[Qeylis]

greghorvath wrote...

Qeylis wrote...

Don't feed the trolls.

Wasn't that what I wrote?

I thought you said something about not minding him or something.  And that there was some spark of intellegence somewhere.  I think we should make a poll to find out it thats true, but he wouldn't believe the results anyway.

[greghorvath]

Qeylis wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

Qeylis wrote...

Don't feed the trolls.

Wasn't that what I wrote?

I thought you said something about not minding him or something.  And that there was some spark of intellegence somewhere.  I think we should make a poll to find out it thats true, but he wouldn't believe the results anyway.

[OblivionDawn]

You think a poll with just over 1000 people is representative?

Lol.

Considering that people browsing BSN typically have a different perspective on the game than those who don't browse BSN, a poll consisting of every player on the forum would still not be representative. This forum is a minority when it comes to the ME3MP playerbase. This sample is not an accurate depiction of what all the players think.

[Qeylis]

OblivionDawn wrote...

You think a poll with just over 1000 people is representative?

Lol.

Considering that people browsing BSN typically have a different perspective on the game than those who don't browse BSN, a poll consisting of every player on the forum would still not be representative. This forum is a minority when it comes to the ME3MP playerbase. This sample is not an accurate depiction of what all the players think.

I think you might be trolling, but I'll take a crack at it.  

You see, this has already been discussed on this board.  What the poll shows is that there is a sense of anger associated with the store.  It might not show how many people are upset by it, or the types of players that are upset.  Does that matter?

If the most loyal players are angry, what does that say about the less loyal players?  Is it crazy to think that this poll means something, or is it crazy to think that it doesn't?

If all this poll says is that 700 people are upset, then thats not that bad.  BioWare can loose 700 customers, no problem.  If this poll says that 70% of BioWares customers are upset, thats bad.  They can't afford to anger that many people.

[Dorje Sylas]

OblivionDawn wrote...

You think a poll with just over 1000 people is representative?

Lol.

Considering that people browsing BSN typically have a different perspective on the game than those who don't browse BSN, a poll consisting of every player on the forum would still not be representative. This forum is a minority when it comes to the ME3MP playerbase. This sample is not an accurate depiction of what all the players think.

.

And yet Bioware won't run one themselves or even release such data if they did. At this point I'd think anyone not on BSN is not someone who really gives a flying fartnugget about this game in the long term. They conned a bunch of people into playing Slots with Packs and came away with at least enough money to cover two content packs. I almost want go and see about getting a copy of EAs quarterly earnings statement and see how much they're really getting out their Slot Machince scheme.

I stand mostly by what I quoted as suggesting in the OP now. If Bioware wants this game to live past the end of July they need to really stop with basic content (new characters) and get 1) a working patch fix to ongoing problems 2) work on adding hooks and ways to expand gameplay. For ****s sake even Minecraft for Xbox gets more patch fixes then this game.  

[greghorvath]

OblivionDawn wrote...

You think a poll with just over 1000 people is representative?

Lol.

Considering that people browsing BSN typically have a different perspective on the game than those who don't browse BSN, a poll consisting of every player on the forum would still not be representative. This forum is a minority when it comes to the ME3MP playerbase. This sample is not an accurate depiction of what all the players think.

Its not the size that makes a poll representative. And nobody said this poll was a "representative poll". It was insinuated, I admit, in order to make it look more important than it actually is, but there are people with with poor skills of understanding written texts who have taken it upon themselves to try to remedy something that never actually was. BS Network at its finest with trolls trying hard to get noticed. 

However, the poll does represent the views of 1000 people. It may not be accurate according to the rules of statistics, but that was not the goal. The goal was explained several times earlier, but the underlying idea behind the poll was to give BioWare a heads up about something that does in fact break the game for many people. This the poll, in fact, does. If I was them, I would implement something similar to what the troll IAMREALITY suggested in his thread to have a shot at a comprehensive "study".

What actually is hurtful is that people are arguing about totally off-topic BS in this thread while there was almost no interest while it was concerned only with the poll itself. And to an extent that is indicative of how important the issue of the store actually is to most of the community... I won't make a poll about that though...

[rmccowen]

greghorvath wrote...

And nobody said this poll was a "representative poll". It was insinuated, I admit, in order to make it look more important than it actually is, but there are people with with poor skills of understanding written texts who have taken it upon themselves to try to remedy something that never actually was. BS Network at its finest with trolls trying hard to get noticed.

You titled the thread "Representative sample size reached for the MP store poll". Then you stated in a revision to the OP that "...the sample size is large enough to be considered representative."

Now you're admitting that it was "insinuated" that it was representative, in order to "make it look more important than it actually is". And then, in the same sentence, you accuse your critics of being "trolls trying hard to get noticed".

I've tried several times now, for more than an hour, to come up with a substantive response to the rest of your post. But honestly, it all boils down to this: you've now admitted that you deliberately lied in order to attract attention, and that calls everything else you have to say into question. I'm not sure where to go from there; my initial motivation was to make sure that readers understood the limitations of your results, but you're currently doing an excellent job of discrediting yourself with no real help from me.

But you still do have my attention (likely because I'm prone to compulsive behavior, but never mind that). If you'd like to shift the conversation to a more constructive one, I'm all ears. For instance, we could talk about what Bioware actually could learn from your 1000 voters--that might be interesting. But first I'd like an apology, both for the lie and for calling me an attention-seeking troll with poor reading comprehension.

Modifié par rmccowen, 17 juin 2012 - 09:55 .

[samb]

 I have spent money on packs but I don't like the current system. If there was less risk of getting bad items (read character cards) then I would spend more.  Considering Many just spent $50 on battlefield premium I think it is safe to say if you provide reliable products people will pay for it. 

[OblivionDawn]

Qeylis wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

You think a poll with just over 1000 people is representative?

Lol.

Considering that people browsing BSN typically have a different perspective on the game than those who don't browse BSN, a poll consisting of every player on the forum would still not be representative. This forum is a minority when it comes to the ME3MP playerbase. This sample is not an accurate depiction of what all the players think.

I think you might be trolling, but I'll take a crack at it.  

You see, this has already been discussed on this board.  What the poll shows is that there is a sense of anger associated with the store.  It might not show how many people are upset by it, or the types of players that are upset.  Does that matter?

If the most loyal players are angry, what does that say about the less loyal players?  Is it crazy to think that this poll means something, or is it crazy to think that it doesn't?

If all this poll says is that 700 people are upset, then thats not that bad.  BioWare can loose 700 customers, no problem.  If this poll says that 70% of BioWares customers are upset, thats bad.  They can't afford to anger that many people.

Less loyal players typically don't play enough to care about the store system, or they have no problem throwing money at the store system. None of my friends browse BSN, and they couldn't care less about the packs. Some hardly know that the packs are random. They're playing because they enjoy the game itself.

If the poll implied that 70% of Bioware's customers were upset, then that would be bad. This poll is NOWHERE close to a sample that big.

At the end of the day, Bioware is a company. They listen to the majority of their consumers. This poll does not represent the majority.

[Qeylis]

samb wrote...

 I have spent money on packs but I don't like the current system. If there was less risk of getting bad items (read character cards) then I would spend more.  Considering Many just spent $50 on battlefield premium I think it is safe to say if you provide reliable products people will pay for it. 

I guess the best poll is posts like these.  Posts from people that will not spend money on a system that almost guarantees that you will not get anything at all (read Maxed Character Cards).  In the absence of a comprehensive poll conducted by BioWare, this, and the poll for which this thread is named, will have to do.

[OblivionDawn]

rmccowen wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

And nobody said this poll was a "representative poll". It was insinuated, I admit, in order to make it look more important than it actually is, but there are people with with poor skills of understanding written texts who have taken it upon themselves to try to remedy something that never actually was. BS Network at its finest with trolls trying hard to get noticed.

You titled the thread "Representative sample size reached for the MP store poll". Then you stated in a revision to the OP that "...the sample size is large enough to be considered representative."

Now you're admitting that it was "insinuated" that it was representative, in order to "make it look more important than it actually is". And then, in the same sentence, you accuse your critics of being "trolls trying hard to get noticed".

I've tried several times now, for more than an hour, to come up with a substantive response to the rest of your post. But honestly, it all boils down to this: you've now admitted that you deliberately lied in order to attract attention, and that calls everything else you have to say into question. I'm not sure where to go from there; my initial motivation was to make sure that readers understood the limitations of your results, but you're currently doing an excellent job of discrediting yourself with no real help from me.

But you still do have my attention (likely because I'm prone to compulsive behavior, but never mind that). If you'd like to shift the conversation to a more constructive one, I'm all ears. For instance, we could talk about what Bioware actually could learn from your 1000 voters--that might be interesting. But first I'd like an apology, both for the lie and for calling me an attention-seeking troll with poor reading comprehension.

This.

He's said everything that needs to be said about this poll.

OP, if anyone fits your description of attention-seeking troll, it's you. Because of:

you deliberately lied in order to attract attention

that.

You have no credibility, OP.

[samb]

Qeylis wrote...

samb wrote...

 I have spent money on packs but I don't like the current system. If there was less risk of getting bad items (read character cards) then I would spend more.  Considering Many just spent $50 on battlefield premium I think it is safe to say if you provide reliable products people will pay for it. 

I guess the best poll is posts like these.  Posts from people that will not spend money on a system that almost guarantees that you will not get anything at all (read Maxed Character Cards).  In the absence of a comprehensive poll conducted by BioWare, this, and the poll for which this thread is named, will have to do.

LI should clarify that I brought packs when I first started playing, where I needed upgrades on everything. Even an uncommon gun or character cards would be good returns. But now, when all my gd and silver guns are maxed, spending real money on what is likely junk is just a dumb move. 

BW knows just how much they are making on this game. They just don't seem to know their costumer base well enough to see how to maximize their profits. 

[Qeylis]

OblivionDawn wrote...

Qeylis wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

You think a poll with just over 1000 people is representative?

Lol.

Considering that people browsing BSN typically have a different perspective on the game than those who don't browse BSN, a poll consisting of every player on the forum would still not be representative. This forum is a minority when it comes to the ME3MP playerbase. This sample is not an accurate depiction of what all the players think.

I think you might be trolling, but I'll take a crack at it.  

You see, this has already been discussed on this board.  What the poll shows is that there is a sense of anger associated with the store.  It might not show how many people are upset by it, or the types of players that are upset.  Does that matter?

If the most loyal players are angry, what does that say about the less loyal players?  Is it crazy to think that this poll means something, or is it crazy to think that it doesn't?

If all this poll says is that 700 people are upset, then thats not that bad.  BioWare can loose 700 customers, no problem.  If this poll says that 70% of BioWares customers are upset, thats bad.  They can't afford to anger that many people.

Less loyal players typically don't play enough to care about the store system, or they have no problem throwing money at the store system. None of my friends browse BSN, and they couldn't care less about the packs. Some hardly know that the packs are random. They're playing because they enjoy the game itself.

If the poll implied that 70% of Bioware's customers were upset, then that would be bad. This poll is NOWHERE close to a sample that big.

At the end of the day, Bioware is a company. They listen to the majority of their consumers. This poll does not represent the majority.

At some point we are going to have to start using some common sense.  

Lets say the poll means nothing (it doesn't).  Lets think about this, now.  Do people like to spend money and get nothing?  Did we really need a poll to tell us that people like to get something when they spend real money?

I understand what you people are saying about it not being "Representitive."  I get it.  Can we freaking move on?  

Can we discuss what it does mean now?  This BS about it meaning nothing is BS.  Perhaps it is proof that BioWare/EA should conduct a more thorough study.  It does prove that there is a portion of the community that is upset about the store.  What size is that portion?  That is unknown.  

[Qeylis]

samb wrote...

Qeylis wrote...

samb wrote...

 I have spent money on packs but I don't like the current system. If there was less risk of getting bad items (read character cards) then I would spend more.  Considering Many just spent $50 on battlefield premium I think it is safe to say if you provide reliable products people will pay for it. 

I guess the best poll is posts like these.  Posts from people that will not spend money on a system that almost guarantees that you will not get anything at all (read Maxed Character Cards).  In the absence of a comprehensive poll conducted by BioWare, this, and the poll for which this thread is named, will have to do.

LI should clarify that I brought packs when I first started playing, where I needed upgrades on everything. Even an uncommon gun or character cards would be good returns. But now, when all my gd and silver guns are maxed, spending real money on what is likely junk is just a dumb move. 

BW knows just how much they are making on this game. They just don't seem to know their costumer base well enough to see how to maximize their profits. 

I used to spend money also.  I stopped when I maxed my rares, and the store kept trolling me with CCs.

[samb]

If this thread really does have up to 1,000 votes then it does have statistical power. It might not have been representative at the start but it certeinly is now. All this debate about "is it or isn't it" is purely academic at this point. The OP tallied up everyone's choices and put it up. That is the detonation of representive.

[Offender_Mullet]

The title should read: "BSN Forum Members Sample Size Reached For The MP Store Poll"

Here are the N7 leaderboard numbers.....

PC: 443,399 people

XBox: ???

PS3: ???

I don't know the last 2, but a poll of just 1,018 votes is hardly "representative" of the ME3 MP gaming community as a whole. Just my two cents.

Modifié par Offender_Mullet, 17 juin 2012 - 10:49 .

[samb]

Offender_Mullet wrote...

The title should read: "BSN Forum Members Sample Size Reached For The MP Store Poll"

Here are the N7 leaderboard numbers.....

PC: 443,399 people

XBox: ???

PS3: ???

I don't know the last 2, but a poll of just 1,018 votes is hardly "representative" of the ME3 MP gaming community as a whole. Just my two cents.

Statistical studies with a sample size of 1,000 is pretty good. Many studies from medical journals only have half that amount. The key is if the sample was randomized to be representative of the targeted population. If you want to attack anything you should attack the fact that only forum goers posted and they don't speak for the larger gaming population as a whole. 

[Qeylis]

Offender_Mullet wrote...

The title should read: "BSN Forum Members Sample Size Reached For The MP Store Poll"

Here are the N7 leaderboard numbers.....

PC: 443,399 people

XBox: ???

PS3: ???

I don't know the last 2, but a poll of just 1,018 votes is hardly "representative" of the ME3 MP gaming community as a whole. Just my two cents.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, 25 people could be "Representitive."  The size of a poll is not what makes it "representitive."  It is carefully chosen groups of people that are scientifically blah de blah blah.

Whatever.  It does show that there is something wrong.  It does not show the size of the problem, but it proves without a doubt that there is a problem.

[Offender_Mullet]

The only thing it's representative of is: forum members who obviously hate the store because lack of ultra-rare pulling. :happy: That's all the poll suggested, in various 'options'. "I want this specifically. I want that specifically". Random is random folks. If you bought 80 PSP's in a row without pulling an ultra-rare, then you should have stopped after 20 and saved your credits for another day.

I'd still like to know the # of players registered on the Xbox and PS3 N7 leaderboards. If there's around 1 million people total for all 3 formats, then the poll votes are 0.1% of all registered users. That percentage is microscopic.

Modifié par Offender_Mullet, 18 juin 2012 - 04:19 .

[RoZh2400]

guys...GUYS! Stop fighting over statistical details! Look, the only reason I pointed out that the poll did not have a representative sample was so no one would accidentally interpret the results as "So many people playing ME3 MP hate the store!". Thing is, not many people were exposed to the poll, and of the people who were, few people even bothered to vote, and of THOSE people, a fair number of people voted they didn't like the poll. Regardless of whether or not the OP's poll is statistically valid, it IS interesting to note that we can now SUGGEST to Bioware/EA to MAKE a better poll, one that will actually capture the ME3 MP population's opinions (the type I suggested in my previous comment is still the one I stand by).

And to reiterate what "representative" actually means scientifically/statistically/officially/whatever, I will give you an example:

Suppose there are 1000 marbles in a bag. There are 5 types of marbles: blue, red, green. white, black, 200 each. A representative sample will contain approximately equal proportions, that is 1:1:1:1:1. In other words, a sample size of only TEN (10), where there are 2 of each color is EQUALLY representative as a sample size of TWO HUNDRED (200). where there are 40 of each color is EQUALLY representative to just counting all the marbles. <-- THAT is what representative means.

I criticized the incorrect word usage of the OP, then, since the poll is not statistically meaningful, I then suggested a method for further research into the topic. The further research is the important part. If anyone really IS interested in seeing the true opinions of the ME3 MP, then we should probably just petition Bioware/EA to create one themselves.

[KiraTsukasa]

How in the hell do you think 1000 votes is representative of over 3.5 million?

[hijackerjack]

I tried to do some calculations (trust me, they're probably crap). but for xbox, there are 1,100,867 +/- a lot on the leaderboard. It's probably a crap number, but I just did a quick calculation based on my position. If that helps anything... lol since some people were asking.