407 réponses à ce sujet

[RoZh2400]

KiraTsukasa wrote...

How in the hell do you think 1000 votes is representative of over 3.5 million?

The number of people in a sample is NOT what makes it representative...the distribution of characteristics of the people in the sample are...was my explanation really that hard to understand?

[IAMREALITY]

Qeylis wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

Qeylis wrote...

Don't feed the trolls.

Wasn't that what I wrote?

I thought you said something about not minding him or something.  And that there was some spark of intellegence somewhere.  I think we should make a poll to find out it thats true, but he wouldn't believe the results anyway.

Yes, a bunch of simpletons voting on intellect lmfao. Yup.  That would have every bit as much credibility as this poll.

:lol::lol:

[IAMREALITY]

Qeylis wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

You think a poll with just over 1000 people is representative?

Lol.

Considering that people browsing BSN typically have a different perspective on the game than those who don't browse BSN, a poll consisting of every player on the forum would still not be representative. This forum is a minority when it comes to the ME3MP playerbase. This sample is not an accurate depiction of what all the players think.

I think you might be trolling, but I'll take a crack at it.  

Of course you do!  Cause like, if somebody disagrees with your sentiment then they just like GOTTA be trolls and stuff lol.

You have no idea how friggin utterly ridiculous you sound when you post garbage like that, do you.

[greghorvath]

RoZh2400 wrote...
Regardless of whether or not the OP's poll is statistically valid, it IS interesting to note that we can now SUGGEST to Bioware/EA to MAKE a better poll, one that will actually capture the ME3 MP population's opinions

Finally! Someone gets it! Thanks, man.

[KiraTsukasa]

RoZh2400 wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

How in the hell do you think 1000 votes is representative of over 3.5 million?

The number of people in a sample is NOT what makes it representative...the distribution of characteristics of the people in the sample are...was my explanation really that hard to understand?

So you have 3.5 million people. One person says yes, another says no, and the other 3,499,998 people don't matter?

Yeah, I find that really hard to understand.

[hijackerjack]

KiraTsukasa wrote...

RoZh2400 wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

How in the hell do you think 1000 votes is representative of over 3.5 million?

The number of people in a sample is NOT what makes it representative...the distribution of characteristics of the people in the sample are...was my explanation really that hard to understand?

So you have 3.5 million people. One person says yes, another says no, and the other 3,499,998 people don't matter?

Yeah, I find that really hard to understand.

I guess it's kinda like a senate or something. They "represent" the views of the majority I assume. Since it would be a pain to get all 3.5 million to vote, a decent number of people, all that represent different areas (like countries or something) do a vote to get a general idea. It's not like anything is definitive. Yeah the idea is dumb, but it works (usually and hopefully lol)

[IAMREALITY]

greghorvath wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

You think a poll with just over 1000 people is representative?

Lol.

Considering that people browsing BSN typically have a different perspective on the game than those who don't browse BSN, a poll consisting of every player on the forum would still not be representative. This forum is a minority when it comes to the ME3MP playerbase. This sample is not an accurate depiction of what all the players think.

 And nobody said this poll was a "representative poll"

Actually you did.  Right in your friggin header for chrissakes..

It was insinuated, I admit, in order to make it look more important than it actually is,

Ding ding ding ding!  Nice of you to be honest with yourself.  So basically, you are saying the poll isn't representative but instead overly hyped for sake of attention.  Gotcha.  Ya know, I really do see now just how wrong I truly was...

It may not be accurate

.

Nope.  Definitely not accurate either. Glad to see you agree with that as well,.

If I was them, I would implement something similar to what the troll IAMREALITY suggested in his thread to have a shot at a comprehensive "study".

So let me get this straight...  You call me a troll for calling your poll unrepresentative and not to be taken as seriously, then proceed to call it unrepresentative, overhyped and inaccurate, followed by you stating that doing it my way would be the right way?  Yeah...  You just keep on rocking that logic pal!

[KiraTsukasa]

hijackerjack wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

RoZh2400 wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

How in the hell do you think 1000 votes is representative of over 3.5 million?

The number of people in a sample is NOT what makes it representative...the distribution of characteristics of the people in the sample are...was my explanation really that hard to understand?

So you have 3.5 million people. One person says yes, another says no, and the other 3,499,998 people don't matter?

Yeah, I find that really hard to understand.

I guess it's kinda like a senate or something. They "represent" the views of the majority I assume. Since it would be a pain to get all 3.5 million to vote, a decent number of people, all that represent different areas (like countries or something) do a vote to get a general idea. It's not like anything is definitive. Yeah the idea is dumb, but it works (usually and hopefully lol)

You don't need all 3.5 million to vote to get a representation, but you need a hell of a lot more than 1000. Not to mention that all these 1000 are only forum goers that happened to click on a particular thread and are able to comprehend the English language. No matter which way you roll it, this is NOT a representation of what the majority thinks.

[RoZh2400]

KiraTsukasa wrote...

RoZh2400 wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

How in the hell do you think 1000 votes is representative of over 3.5 million?

The number of people in a sample is NOT what makes it representative...the distribution of characteristics of the people in the sample are...was my explanation really that hard to understand?

So you have 3.5 million people. One person says yes, another says no, and the other 3,499,998 people don't matter?

Yeah, I find that really hard to understand.

Thing is, it is possible that approximately 50% of the population like it and the other 50% don't. Yes, a large sample size is good. Yes, a tiny sample of <10 is OFTEN bad. What I'm saying is that 1000 CAN be representative, but it ISN'T in this case. I'm also trying to say that just because we reached some arbitrarily large number doesn't mean we've got a representative sample.The point is, for all the people saying "oh my god he got 1000! that's so many! It's GOT to be representative" or "Oh my god, he only has 1000? That's it? No way that's representative", neither is correct, because it focuses on the size, not the characteristics of the population.

And regardless, your counter example is irrelavent to what I said. I proposed asking ALL of the ME3 population, not just 2.

[greghorvath]

IAMREALITY wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

 And nobody said this poll was a "representative poll"

Actually you did.  Right in your friggin header for chrissakes..

Comprehension issue.

It was insinuated, I admit, in order to make it look more important than it actually is,

Ding ding ding ding!  Nice of you to be honest with yourself.  So basically, you are saying the poll isn't representative but instead overly hyped for sake of attention.  Gotcha.  Ya know, I really do see now just how wrong I truly was...

lol. You say that like it was news. "Gotcha" - Glad you feel happy about yourself.

It may not be accurate

Nope.  Definitely not accurate either. Glad to see you agree with that as well.

Noone said it was.

If I was them, I would implement something similar to what the troll IAMREALITY suggested in his thread to have a shot at a comprehensive "study".

So let me get this straight...  You call me a troll for calling your poll unrepresentative and not to be taken as seriously, then proceed to call it unrepresentative, overhyped and inaccurate, followed by you stating that doing it my way would be the right way?  Yeah...  You just keep on rocking that logic pal!

No, mate. This is again a reading comprehension issue. I called you a troll (and reported you) for your offensive tone that you just seem unable to help. The fact that you troll threads is in no relation to the fact that your idea is in fact very good. You are trying to put this entire thing onto a personal level, which furthers my belief that, in addition to your reading comprehension problem, you have serious underlying issues you should try to solve. 

You have absolutely no chance of insulting me, so I would suggest you just stop with the attempts.

Modifié par greghorvath, 18 juin 2012 - 09:05 .

[Ryan_H]

I never even knew about the poll...

[KiraTsukasa]

RoZh2400 wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

RoZh2400 wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

How in the hell do you think 1000 votes is representative of over 3.5 million?

The number of people in a sample is NOT what makes it representative...the distribution of characteristics of the people in the sample are...was my explanation really that hard to understand?

So you have 3.5 million people. One person says yes, another says no, and the other 3,499,998 people don't matter?

Yeah, I find that really hard to understand.

Thing is, it is possible that approximately 50% of the population like it and the other 50% don't. Yes, a large sample size is good. Yes, a tiny sample of <10 is OFTEN bad. What I'm saying is that 1000 CAN be representative, but it ISN'T in this case. I'm also trying to say that just because we reached some arbitrarily large number doesn't mean we've got a representative sample.The point is, for all the people saying "oh my god he got 1000! that's so many! It's GOT to be representative" or "Oh my god, he only has 1000? That's it? No way that's representative", neither is correct, because it focuses on the size, not the characteristics of the population.

And regardless, your counter example is irrelavent to what I said. I proposed asking ALL of the ME3 population, not just 2.

So... you berate me only to agree with what I said to begin with?

[Westy1422]

Thanks for making this post. It would be nice to unlock some great gear, and would keep me playing for a longer period of time.

[greghorvath]

I have changed the title of the thread for the following reasons:

1. Arguing about the nature of "representative" had absolutely nothing to do with the store or the poll.
2. The traffic that was generated did not noticeably increase the size of the sample (7 votes is 3 days??? I mean, really...). Ergo, this kind of traffic is not necessary.


Please, discontinue this argument. Thanks.

Modifié par greghorvath, 18 juin 2012 - 06:41 .

[KiraTsukasa]

greghorvath wrote...

I have changed the title of the thread for the following reasons:

1. Arguing about the nature of "representative" had absolutely nothing to do with the store or the poll.
2. The traffic that was generated did not noticeably increase the size of the sample (7 votes is 3 days??? I mean, really...). Ergo, this kind of traffic is not necessary.


Please, discontinue this argument. Thanks.

In other words, when in doubt, BACK PEDAL BACK PEDAL BACK PEDAL!

[Ryan_H]

greghorvath wrote...
No, mate. This is again a reading comprehension issue. I called you a troll (and reported you) for your offensive tone that you just seem unable to help. The fact that you troll threads is in no relation to the fact that your idea is in fact very good. You are trying to put this entire thing onto a personal level, which, in addition to your reading comprehension problem, furthers my belief that you have serious underlying issues you should try to solve. 

You have absolutely no chance of insulting me, so I would suggest you just stop with the attempts.

Why report him?  Why not just ignore him? 

[Ryan_H]

greghorvath wrote...

I have changed the title of the thread for the following reasons:

1. Arguing about the nature of "representative" had absolutely nothing to do with the store or the poll.

Please, discontinue this argument. Thanks.

Actually, a poll to be useful, has to be representative.  Another problem is that all optional, online polls by their very nature are non-representative and their results are questionable at best--only the people that are interested in the topic take the poll.. 

I can see that you put a lot of time and effort into your poll and analysis.  I can also see that you are frustrated that people are nitpicking the results of the poll which you spent a long time monitoring and then analyzing.  However this is to be expected when you post in a 'public' forum.

[greghorvath]

Ryan_H wrote...

greghorvath wrote...

I have changed the title of the thread for the following reasons:

1. Arguing about the nature of "representative" had absolutely nothing to do with the store or the poll.

Please, discontinue this argument. Thanks.

Actually, a poll to be useful, has to be representative.  Another problem is that all optional, online polls by their very nature are non-representative and their results are questionable at best--only the people that are interested in the topic take the poll.. 

I can see that you put a lot of time and effort into your poll and analysis.  I can also see that you are frustrated that people are nitpicking the results of the poll which you spent a long time monitoring and then analyzing.  However this is to be expected when you post in a 'public' forum.

I am not frustrated at all. I am happy for the traffic 'cause there was none while I was trying to generate it. However, this traffic is not increasing sample size and the conversation is largely off topic, which is against forum rules. As such, this thread is probably better off without it.

A poll like this is useful only because it shows there is interest in this issue. In statistical terms the poll is inaccurate but it does give a hint of what people think abot the store.

@Kira: Sometimes you have to back up. Its that simple.

Modifié par greghorvath, 18 juin 2012 - 08:13 .

[Qeylis]

Ryan_H wrote...

Actually, a poll to be useful, has to be representative.  Another problem is that all optional, online polls by their very nature are non-representative and their results are questionable at best--only the people that are interested in the topic take the poll.. 

I can see that you put a lot of time and effort into your poll and analysis.  I can also see that you are frustrated that people are nitpicking the results of the poll which you spent a long time monitoring and then analyzing.  However this is to be expected when you post in a 'public' forum.

Incorrect.  The poll that started the ME3 ending debacle was not representitive, not at all.  The pollee's were not chosen scientifically.  The massive size of the poll did not make it representitive.  

What it did do, is show that there was a problem.  The s*** storm that happened on the rest of the internet showed the size of the problem.

Once again, this poll shows that there is a problem.  It does not show the size of the problem, or how angry these people really are.  It simply says that there is a problem.  The problem could be larger than what the poll suggests, or it could be smaller.  

It is not the kind of problem that will cause the massive backlash that the ending caused.  Its more of the kind of problem that makes people quietly give up on a company, and talk bad about them to their friends.  I would nerver do that, mind you, but it is that kind of problem.

Modifié par Qeylis, 18 juin 2012 - 03:08 .

[Doc-Jek]

I actually like the random drop system... If it was any easier to unlock things, I would've had it all done by now, and lost some of the excitement of the game.

[Qeylis]

IAMREALITY wrote...

Qeylis wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

You think a poll with just over 1000 people is representative?

Lol.

Considering that people browsing BSN typically have a different perspective on the game than those who don't browse BSN, a poll consisting of every player on the forum would still not be representative. This forum is a minority when it comes to the ME3MP playerbase. This sample is not an accurate depiction of what all the players think.

I think you might be trolling, but I'll take a crack at it.  

Of course you do!  Cause like, if somebody disagrees with your sentiment then they just like GOTTA be trolls and stuff lol.

You have no idea how friggin utterly ridiculous you sound when you post garbage like that, do you.

I'm going to be nice to you, because I don't want Abram to Smash this thread.  I was really going to be mean, but I controled myself, are you proud of me?

If you would have read the next sentence, which you conveniently left out (to support your argument, I believe), you would have seen why I thought he might be trolling.  His statement had been asked and answered several times on this thread already.

I am tired of throwing the T word out there.  Sadly, trolls make that peaceful world impossible.  

Feel free to disagree.  Disagreement keeps us honest, and the more honest we are, the more likely it is that the issue that brought us here will be resolved.

[Qeylis]

Doc-Jek wrote...

I actually like the random drop system... If it was any easier to unlock things, I would've had it all done by now, and lost some of the excitement of the game.

I like the RNG store too.  I would be very sad if they got rid of it in favor of a normal store.  I believe that something has to be done about the store, not necessarily direct item purchase.

I would prefer random drop with something more rewarding than a Maxed out Character Card.  A pack of level 3 consumables, or a level 4 or 5 consumable would be cool.  But a maxed CC is almost theft since there is no benefit in having a high N7 rating.

[IAMREALITY]

Qeylis wrote...

IAMREALITY wrote...

Qeylis wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

You think a poll with just over 1000 people is representative?

Lol.

Considering that people browsing BSN typically have ai different perspective on the game than those who don't browse BSN, a poll consisting of every player on the forum would still not be representative. This forum is a minority when it comes to the ME3MP playerbase. This sample is not an accurate depiction of what all the players think.

I think you might be trolling, but I'll take a crack at it.  

Of course you do!  Cause like, if somebody disagrees with your sentiment then they just like GOTTA be trolls and stuff lol.

You have no idea how friggin utterly ridiculous you sound when you post garbage like that, do you.

I'm going to be nice to you, because I don't want Abram to Smash this thread.  I was really going to be mean, but I controled myself, are you proud of me?

If you would have read the next sentence, which you conveniently left out (to support your argument, I believe), you would have seen why I thought he might be trolling.  His statement had been asked and answered several times on this thread already.

I am tired of throwing the T word out there.  Sadly, trolls make that peaceful world impossible.  

Feel free to disagree.  Disagreement keeps us honest, and the more honest we are, the more likely it is that the issue that brought us here will be resolved.

Am I proud of you? Nope. The fact you seem to have such a hard time with self control isn't exactly something worthy of pride

why'd I leave the rest out? Cause it was irrelevant to my point. The justification was also kinda stupid.
Do I believe you're sick of using the T word? Not a chance. In fact I have a feeling you'll be using it plenty.

And feel free to disagree? My apologies if I led you to believe that I, or anyone else, required your permission.

[samb]

KiraTsukasa wrote...

RoZh2400 wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

How in the hell do you think 1000 votes is representative of over 3.5 million?

The number of people in a sample is NOT what makes it representative...the distribution of characteristics of the people in the sample are...was my explanation really that hard to understand?

So you have 3.5 million people. One person says yes, another says no, and the other 3,499,998 people don't matter?

Yeah, I find that really hard to understand.

You... don't understand statistics.  A larger sample size will reduces the likihood that the results are a due to chance.  For a sample to be representative of a population it needs to be random.  Attacking a study for "only" having a sample size of 1000 shows a lack of how research or basic stats work.  1000 is plenty big as a sample size.  Many scientific journals publish findings on much less.

Is this poll a well controlled study?  Not at all.  Is it truly represenative?  No.  But not because of the sample size.  It isn't represenative because it only has people who care enough to post on this forum.

[Qeylis]

IAMREALITY wrote...

This is what I hear.  If you would like to comment on the MP store poll, or if you have some ideas to share, feel free.  That is what this thread is about, and you, sir are off topic, again.  I'm certain that your efforts to derail this debate will not go unnoticed.  Thank you.