The poll is flawed. There's no option for a middle ground. (e.g. Like the system but want a change.)
MP store poll and idea compendium
Débuté par
greghorvath
, avril 23 2012 10:30
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#77
Posté 27 avril 2012 - 02:58
ABjerre
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scooterbaga wrote...
The poll is flawed. There's no option for a middle ground. (e.g. Like the system but want a change.)
That is what the comments are for. Studies show, that when ever you introduce a "middle" option to a survey, people tend to take that, even though they may be leaning to one side. In a very simple questionare like this, the solution is to not introduce such a "middle".
#78
Posté 27 avril 2012 - 02:59
greghorvath
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scooterbaga wrote...
The poll is flawed. There's no option for a middle ground. (e.g. Like the system but want a change.)
Well, the poll is exactly as I wanted it to be (except I should have put numbers before the options).
"Like the system but want a change", if you think about it real hard, means you don't like the current system. If you liked it you would not want it to change. For this, you have two options, just have a look!
#79
Posté 27 avril 2012 - 06:30
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greghorvath wrote...
"Like the system but want a change", if you think about it real hard, means you don't like the current system. If you liked it you would not want it to change. For this, you have two options, just have a look!
"I do not like the random drop store system."
This is not the correct option for me to chose. I like the random drop system. The usage "random" flaws the poll.
#80
Posté 27 avril 2012 - 06:31
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Update: 27.04.2012 20.30 CET
Likes: 41
Dislikes: 59
Vote per view is somewhere at 1/2,5.
Likes: 41
Dislikes: 59
Vote per view is somewhere at 1/2,5.
#81
Posté 28 avril 2012 - 05:03
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scooterbaga wrote...
greghorvath wrote...
"Like the system but want a change", if you think about it real hard, means you don't like the current system. If you liked it you would not want it to change. For this, you have two options, just have a look!
"I do not like the random drop store system."
This is not the correct option for me to chose. I like the random drop system. The usage "random" flaws the poll.
I have a feeling you have already made up your mind that you are right and I am wrong, but I'll present you with the option I would choose if I felt: I "Like the system but want a change":
Option 1 or 2 + but I would prefer a system where I knew what I was buying.
Without going deeper into semantics or metaphysics, consider that most people saying they like the system but want a change do not actually like the random feature that allows repeated items they already have. Basically what they want is a surprise pack, in which THEY KNOW they are going to get something new, therefore, they would like to know what they are buying. Presenting more/more elaborate options would have resulted in an even more complicated poll. And THAT would have truly flawed it.
In most polls you have to choose an option that is CLOSEST to what you think, not EXACTLY what you think, but consider the poll "flawed" if you you wish. I am thankful for any bump, comment and vote!
#82
Posté 28 avril 2012 - 10:20
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Wow.
The likes are back at 43%. I did not see that coming...
The likes are back at 43%. I did not see that coming...
#83
Posté 28 avril 2012 - 10:43
ABjerre
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greghorvath wrote...
Wow.
The likes are back at 43%. I did not see that coming...
I know you probably expected the dislike to go up, but i really dont think we'll see it change a lot from here on. The main objective is to get a large sample size to make it a valid survey, and not something that can be dismissed as a "statistic anormaly".
On a side note, most of the companies i've been in contact with over the years are operating with a product approval rating of ~90%. If it reaches 80%, something drastic has to be done. The numbers in this poll are by any (other) standard of cataclysmic proportions, but sadly i dont think BW or EA will realize that untill after May 15 when D3 is out (it is targeted at roughly the same segment as ME is: Lage single player portion based on RP with a Co-Op MP element to it). By then the Rare-Capped customers will effectively have been dead in the water for months with crappy customer service and no further character development in sight.
#84
Posté 28 avril 2012 - 03:28
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ABjerre wrote...
I know you probably expected the dislike to go up, but i really dont think we'll see it change a lot from here on. The main objective is to get a large sample size to make it a valid survey, and not something that can be dismissed as a "statistic anormaly".
Yep. I did hope so! The 58% we have right now is pretty serious, but I was hoping we would get over 500 and a +60% dislike ratio. I am by no means disappointed, the detailed reasons for which I will posting in a few hours.
#85
Posté 28 avril 2012 - 07:10
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So, I promised a breakdown of what we know so far and I tend to keep my promises. Unless it is inconvenient for me or if I forget. But here I go:
This is the poll situation at 20.00 CET on 28.04.2012. Number of voters is 457 and viewers 1206.
1. I like the random drop store system. 9%(43 votes)
2. I like the random drop store system and have spent real money on packs. 6%(26 votes)
3. I do not like the random drop store system. 9%(43 votes)
4. I do not like the random drop store system, but I have spent real money on packs. 4%(18 votes)
5. Option 1 + but I would never spend real money in an in game store. 12%(55 votes)
6. Option 3 + and I would never spend real money in an in game store. 12%(55 votes)
7. Option 1 or 2 + but I would prefer a system where I knew what I was buying. 11%(48 votes)
8. Option 3 or 4 + and I would prefer a system where I knew what I was buying. 20%(91 votes)
9. Option 1 or 2 + I would probably spend (more) real money in a system where I knew what I was buying. 4%(20 votes)
10. Option 3 or 4 + but I would probably spend (more) real money in a system where I knew what I was buying. 13%(58 votes)
The simplest reading of the result is that options for Likes (1, 2, 5, 7, 9) are at: 43% and Dislikes (3,4,6, 8, 10) are at 58%. (Yes, I know that makes 101%, but it does not matter atm)
I leave it to you to decide whether you think a ~43% "succes rate" is acceptable or not.
If we look at the options in detail, we see that the ratios are actually not as clear cut: those that actually like the current system as it is (1, 2, 5) make up only 27% of the votes. That means that about 73% of players want some sort of a change. I think that is a considerable majority. Don't you?
Of course, this 73% differs in their opinion as to the extent of change they would like, but the fact remains they want something different.
If BW is looking at this thing (even before I send them the material when it reaches an acceptable size), I would draw their attention to the above percentage, especially those that are responsible for quality control.
In addition to the staggering ratio of people wanting change over those that don't, the money making potential is worth another look.
Excluding the 24% who deny the possiblility of spending money in game, only 10% say that they have spent money and remain obscure in terms of future spending possibilities (2, 4). On the other hand, 17 percent declares they would in fact spend (more) money in a store where they would know what they are buying. 10% vs. 17%, means almost twice the money. Just sayin'. And of those that remained unspecific concerning their "spending willingness" (7,8) you have a whooping 31% who just might consider spending some money if the store conformed to their needs. And that is a lot. A potential of 48% percent instead of the current 10%
I know the conclusions are quasi-scientific and a professional could have made the poll many times as good. But as it happens, the professionals that made the game seem to have made a mistake regarding the store system, so we laymen have to help as best we can to achieve what we all want: an enjoyable game that will give everyone what they want from it (fun to one - funds to the other).
I also know that the sample size we have right now is not enough, so, if you have any interest in this, please, spread the word as best you can. Thanks.
This is the poll situation at 20.00 CET on 28.04.2012. Number of voters is 457 and viewers 1206.
1. I like the random drop store system. 9%(43 votes)
2. I like the random drop store system and have spent real money on packs. 6%(26 votes)
3. I do not like the random drop store system. 9%(43 votes)
4. I do not like the random drop store system, but I have spent real money on packs. 4%(18 votes)
5. Option 1 + but I would never spend real money in an in game store. 12%(55 votes)
6. Option 3 + and I would never spend real money in an in game store. 12%(55 votes)
7. Option 1 or 2 + but I would prefer a system where I knew what I was buying. 11%(48 votes)
8. Option 3 or 4 + and I would prefer a system where I knew what I was buying. 20%(91 votes)
9. Option 1 or 2 + I would probably spend (more) real money in a system where I knew what I was buying. 4%(20 votes)
10. Option 3 or 4 + but I would probably spend (more) real money in a system where I knew what I was buying. 13%(58 votes)
The simplest reading of the result is that options for Likes (1, 2, 5, 7, 9) are at: 43% and Dislikes (3,4,6, 8, 10) are at 58%. (Yes, I know that makes 101%, but it does not matter atm)
I leave it to you to decide whether you think a ~43% "succes rate" is acceptable or not.
If we look at the options in detail, we see that the ratios are actually not as clear cut: those that actually like the current system as it is (1, 2, 5) make up only 27% of the votes. That means that about 73% of players want some sort of a change. I think that is a considerable majority. Don't you?
Of course, this 73% differs in their opinion as to the extent of change they would like, but the fact remains they want something different.
If BW is looking at this thing (even before I send them the material when it reaches an acceptable size), I would draw their attention to the above percentage, especially those that are responsible for quality control.
In addition to the staggering ratio of people wanting change over those that don't, the money making potential is worth another look.
Excluding the 24% who deny the possiblility of spending money in game, only 10% say that they have spent money and remain obscure in terms of future spending possibilities (2, 4). On the other hand, 17 percent declares they would in fact spend (more) money in a store where they would know what they are buying. 10% vs. 17%, means almost twice the money. Just sayin'. And of those that remained unspecific concerning their "spending willingness" (7,8) you have a whooping 31% who just might consider spending some money if the store conformed to their needs. And that is a lot. A potential of 48% percent instead of the current 10%
I know the conclusions are quasi-scientific and a professional could have made the poll many times as good. But as it happens, the professionals that made the game seem to have made a mistake regarding the store system, so we laymen have to help as best we can to achieve what we all want: an enjoyable game that will give everyone what they want from it (fun to one - funds to the other).
I also know that the sample size we have right now is not enough, so, if you have any interest in this, please, spread the word as best you can. Thanks.
Modifié par greghorvath, 28 avril 2012 - 09:05 .
#86
Posté 29 avril 2012 - 05:58
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Update: 8.00 CET 29.04.2012
Likes: 43%
Dislikes: 57%
500 votes is still the immediate goal.
Likes: 43%
Dislikes: 57%
500 votes is still the immediate goal.
Modifié par greghorvath, 29 avril 2012 - 03:30 .
#87
Posté 29 avril 2012 - 03:30
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Update: 17.30 CET 29.04.2012
Likes: 43%
Dislikes: 57%
Likes: 43%
Dislikes: 57%
Modifié par greghorvath, 29 avril 2012 - 03:31 .
#88
Posté 29 avril 2012 - 03:43
mrcanada
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Again, people who are in favor of the system, haven't maxed their gold weapons yet. Vote again once you do that in a few weeks and see how much you like the store system then.
#89
Posté 29 avril 2012 - 04:47
ABjerre
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mrcanada wrote...
Again, people who are in favor of the system, haven't maxed their gold weapons yet. Vote again once you do that in a few weeks and see how much you like the store system then.
This. I've also pointed it out numerous times in other threads as well as in this one too: In MP, customer satisfaction is inverse proportional to the amount of unlocked gear.
Unlocked:
[None]----[Common]-----------[Uncommon]--------------------[Rare]--------------[Ultra Rare]--------[All]
Perception of Store:
[Pretty Cool]-----------[Meh]--------[Kinda Annoying]----------[C'MON!]---[Monty Pyton-Rediculous]
Modifié par ABjerre, 29 avril 2012 - 04:48 .
#90
Posté 29 avril 2012 - 08:13
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ABjerre wrote...
mrcanada wrote...
Again, people who are in favor of the system, haven't maxed their gold weapons yet. Vote again once you do that in a few weeks and see how much you like the store system then.
This. I've also pointed it out numerous times in other threads as well as in this one too: In MP, customer satisfaction is inverse proportional to the amount of unlocked gear.
Unlocked:
[None]----[Common]-----------[Uncommon]--------------------[Rare]--------------[Ultra Rare]--------[All]
Perception of Store:
[Pretty Cool]-----------[Meh]--------[Kinda Annoying]----------[C'MON!]---[Monty Pyton-Rediculous]
Monty Python is absurd, not ridiculous. Otherwise the simile is to the point!
On the other hand, we do have to admit that once rares are at lvl 10 (my manifest, if you are interested), most of us lose the intense antagonism against the store. Lvl 10 rares are better than ultra rares lvl1-5, so basically after you unlock enough you just go: pffft, whatever most of the time you get the crap. In othere words: by the time you unlock enough things, you really lose interest. Hopefully only for the store and not the entire MP, as mrcanada suggested in his comment to the poll. Incidentally, I felt/feel very much the same, even though I got over the sickening part with the help of the guys on my friends list...
But guys, we all know its not just weapon unlocks. Most of us that play a lot have had to go for games without medigel, rockets, while you have ops survival packs and thermal clip packs maxed out (no wonder, by the time ops survival kicks in you are dead in gold and whoever thought you need cliprefills like this in this game never bothered to check the maps themselves. Or perhaps they were calculating with the bugged crates on Condor or Reactor... Very bad job of balancing, if you ask me... But speaking of the ****tier consumables, pray tell, why is it that they can be maxed out? Even if I have loads of them I dont want to be screwed over by even the consumables! sheesh). If you only buy recruits, you probably will get one of them (you buy four for the price of a veteran, that is enough for one public/random/random/gold game). If you buy veterans, you might not get anything, as it happened to me with quite a few in a row. (Since the jumbo equipment packs are active again, I've been buying them with very few spectres. Perhaps getting what I intended to buy with the jumbos help me getting over the fact that I get the maxed out character cards in the spectres...
As the poll shows, BW/EA would probably earn more if they were willing to reconsider the store, so I really see no excuse as to not take into consideration the ideas that we are goind to be collecting soon enough.
I will not do the update right now. As an easter egg, I allow those interested to go to the poll and count!
(even if this messes with my vote/view)
#91
Posté 30 avril 2012 - 03:45
greghorvath
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The situation on 30.04.2012 at 5.45 CET is:
Likes:42
Dislikes: 58
P.S. The sample size is almost at the 500 mark. With this bump, it will probably be reached.
Likes:42
Dislikes: 58
P.S. The sample size is almost at the 500 mark. With this bump, it will probably be reached.
#92
Guest_The Mad Hanar_*
Posté 30 avril 2012 - 03:47
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I think it's what keeps the MP interesting, to be honest.
#93
Posté 30 avril 2012 - 03:48
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The Mad Hanar wrote...
I think it's what keeps the MP interesting, to be honest.
Well, vote accordingly then!
#94
Guest_The Mad Hanar_*
Posté 30 avril 2012 - 03:49
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greghorvath wrote...
The Mad Hanar wrote...
I think it's what keeps the MP interesting, to be honest.
Well, vote accordingly then!
I just did, good sir.
#96
Posté 30 avril 2012 - 05:49
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Update Rejoice Edition: At approximately 7.40 CET on 30.04.2012 we reached the sample size of 500 votes. Thanks to all that participated!
Likes: 42%
Dislikes: 58%
Spread the cheer and the news of the poll. 1000 votes is the goal to make this look serious. Thanks, guys!
Likes: 42%
Dislikes: 58%
Spread the cheer and the news of the poll. 1000 votes is the goal to make this look serious. Thanks, guys!
#97
Posté 30 avril 2012 - 02:23
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16.30 CET
Situation is unchanged.
Situation is unchanged.
#98
Posté 30 avril 2012 - 02:34
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LET'S TAKE THINGS TO THE NEXT LEVEL!
The sample is steadily growing and we can see from the results that a change is long overdue.
Let's start gathering ideas and suggestions of what we would like to see change, and how could we make the changes in a way that would encourage MP longevity, cashflow for EA/BW, and gamer satisfaction.
Let me have them people! I hereby volunteer to gather, systematize, make salient, etc. those great ideas you all have to offer!
In case you have not yet voted, please, right your ways and do so!
P.S. There is no guarantee that this poll and thread will actually lead to changes in the system, but I sure can guarantee nothing is going to happen unless we ourself help it along.
The sample is steadily growing and we can see from the results that a change is long overdue.
Let's start gathering ideas and suggestions of what we would like to see change, and how could we make the changes in a way that would encourage MP longevity, cashflow for EA/BW, and gamer satisfaction.
Let me have them people! I hereby volunteer to gather, systematize, make salient, etc. those great ideas you all have to offer!
In case you have not yet voted, please, right your ways and do so!
P.S. There is no guarantee that this poll and thread will actually lead to changes in the system, but I sure can guarantee nothing is going to happen unless we ourself help it along.
Modifié par greghorvath, 30 avril 2012 - 05:33 .
#99
Posté 30 avril 2012 - 04:46
mrcanada
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greghorvath wrote...
ABjerre wrote...
mrcanada wrote...
Again, people who are in favor of the system, haven't maxed their gold weapons yet. Vote again once you do that in a few weeks and see how much you like the store system then.
This. I've also pointed it out numerous times in other threads as well as in this one too: In MP, customer satisfaction is inverse proportional to the amount of unlocked gear.
Unlocked:
[None]----[Common]-----------[Uncommon]--------------------[Rare]--------------[Ultra Rare]--------[All]
Perception of Store:
[Pretty Cool]-----------[Meh]--------[Kinda Annoying]----------[C'MON!]---[Monty Pyton-Rediculous]
Monty Python is absurd, not ridiculous. Otherwise the simile is to the point!
On the other hand, we do have to admit that once rares are at lvl 10 (my manifest, if you are interested), most of us lose the intense antagonism against the store. Lvl 10 rares are better than ultra rares lvl1-5, so basically after you unlock enough you just go: pffft, whatever most of the time you get the crap. In othere words: by the time you unlock enough things, you really lose interest. Hopefully only for the store and not the entire MP, as mrcanada suggested in his comment to the poll. Incidentally, I felt/feel very much the same, even though I got over the sickening part with the help of the guys on my friends list...
But guys, we all know its not just weapon unlocks. Most of us that play a lot have had to go for games without medigel, rockets, while you have ops survival packs and thermal clip packs maxed out (no wonder, by the time ops survival kicks in you are dead in gold and whoever thought you need cliprefills like this in this game never bothered to check the maps themselves. Or perhaps they were calculating with the bugged crates on Condor or Reactor... Very bad job of balancing, if you ask me... But speaking of the ****tier consumables, pray tell, why is it that they can be maxed out? Even if I have loads of them I dont want to be screwed over by even the consumables! sheesh). If you only buy recruits, you probably will get one of them (you buy four for the price of a veteran, that is enough for one public/random/random/gold game). If you buy veterans, you might not get anything, as it happened to me with quite a few in a row. (Since the jumbo equipment packs are active again, I've been buying them with very few spectres. Perhaps getting what I intended to buy with the jumbos help me getting over the fact that I get the maxed out character cards in the spectres...
As the poll shows, BW/EA would probably earn more if they were willing to reconsider the store, so I really see no excuse as to not take into consideration the ideas that we are goind to be collecting soon enough.
I will not do the update right now. As an easter egg, I allow those interested to go to the poll and count!
Couldn't disagree more. At least I had progress to show for my credits prior to maxing them and it gave me a purpose to continue to play. The real frustration of the store was only realized WHEN I maxed my rares and found out how much time and credits I would now be doomed to waste. I have wasted well over 1.5 million credits and not seen an N7 weapon. No word of a lie. The system is stupid and it's killing the game for a lot of players like me.
#100
Posté 30 avril 2012 - 05:18
greghorvath
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"most of us" not "all of us"
But I know exactly how you feel, believe me. I just personally feel, well, meh about the store system atm instead of the outright loathing I had. But I am sure that the jumbos with their solid content add greatly to my current "peace" with the store (which basically means that spectres havent pissed me off since I haven't bought any...).
So, whatever I wrote earlier, I tend to agree with you.
not "all of us"But I know exactly how you feel, believe me. I just personally feel, well, meh about the store system atm instead of the outright loathing I had. But I am sure that the jumbos with their solid content add greatly to my current "peace" with the store (which basically means that spectres havent pissed me off since I haven't bought any...).
So, whatever I wrote earlier, I tend to agree with you.
