407 réponses à ce sujet

[greghorvath]

Update: 10.00 CET 01.05.2012

Likes: 43
Dislikes: 57

[greghorvath]

I see you guys are shy, so I am going to start the flow of ideas. 

We need first a framework, some basics that we need in order to keep things at least somewhat realistic:

1. The idea that everything should be free and choosable (instead of random for money) is obviously NOT ACCEPTABLE. Try to think along the lines of something that contains possible revenue for EA/BW.
2. Take out character cards you maxed out and give N7 instead, is again NOT (fully) ACCEPTABLE. This would damage the longevity many have remarked to be a good idea, as it keeps people involved for longer.

Just to start the brainstorming, here are some possible suggestions (not mine, distilled...):

1. Whenever you would get a character card that is maxed out (in terms of class and customization options), get equipment instead in the same rareness tier (lvl1 for common, lvl2 for uncommon, lvl3 for rare).

2. Whenever you would get a character card that is maxed out (in terms of class and customization options) get weapons instead that are not maxed out. When everything is maxed out, back to the old system, with unchanged
N7 probablity.

3. Keep the random system as it is but introduce a system where you can buy (for BW points or whatever) unlocks/upgrades of your choice. Prices should differ according to tier, but must be kept reasonable (e.g. along
the lines of 400 BW points per 1 lvl of N7, etc.) This way the random system remains for those that 1) like the system, 2) do not want to pay money.

4. A more user-friendly version of 3. would be to introduce a system where you could buy things of your choice for considerably more credits, let say something like an N7 upgrade for 2,5 million credits (or BW points).

5. Hybrids and variations of the above.
 
Okay, some ideas have been laid down, gimme yours! And feel free to comment, rethink the ones above!

Modifié par greghorvath, 01 mai 2012 - 08:50 .

[greghorvath]

Well, as this thread seems to be my playground and mine alone, its up to me to add something:

6. Even respec cards are more useful than maxed out character cards. Perhaps they should be brought back.

[Wesus]

Playground you say :



Just kidding

[greghorvath]

mmm... candy...

[ABjerre]

The problem with the store as it is now, is that it is the only somewhat reliable, way of keeping the cash flowing after the initial sale of the game to customers. However, that doesn't mean it cant be tweeked to give the seller as well as the buyer more of what they want...

I assume that the Bioware's attitude towards putting upgrade up for sale directly is that people will buy what they want, and then stop spending money entirely.

I dont agree that is has to be like that. There are some that see the store for what it is, and never spend money in  it. Then theres the ones that spend some money, and then realize what the store is...

The way the store is now, it only keeps people buying untill they realize they are in fact buying lottery tickets more  than actual upgrades, at which point, they become dissatisfied customers, with little or no chance of repeat business. In effect, this means that no matter what BW throws at them, as long as the store remains what it is  today, people already scorn will not spend money again.

If Bioware changed the store, so people could buy what they wanted, or knew what they were buying, content  developed in the future could be sold in the same way, thus making people repeat their business.

A tweak to the store, could be that when purchasing Spectre Packs with Bioware Points, they guarantee a random Untra Rare. This would give (some) people what they want (sretainty that they dont buy "nothing"), and Bioware a higher potential revenue per customer, as well as opening the possibility of repeat transactions, if new weapons are released in the future (new ultra rare weapons and or characters, customizations, you name it).

Even with a Spectre Pack guaranteing a random Ultra Rare card when bought with points (160 of them, roughly  equal to $2), the current amount of Ultra Rare weapons would represent a potential 7 * 10 * 2 = $140 worth of  packs. I highly doubt that people, who spend money in the store, on an average are spending more than that before they relize what is going on.

Modifié par ABjerre, 01 mai 2012 - 03:35 .

[greghorvath]

ABjerre wrote...

A tweak to the store, could be that when purchasing Spectre Packs with Bioware Points, they guarantee a random Untra Rare. This would give (some) people what they want (sretainty that they dont buy "nothing"), and Bioware a higher potential revenue per customer, as well as opening the possibility of repeat transactions, if new weapons are released in the future (new ultra rare weapons and or characters, customizations, you name it).

Even with a Spectre Pack guaranteing a random Ultra Rare card when bought with points (160 of them, roughly  equal to $2), the current amount of Ultra Rare weapons would represent a potential 7 * 10 * 2 = $140 worth of  packs. I highly doubt that people, who spend money in the store, on an average are spending more than that before they relize what is going on.

Very nice. Ideas like this are exactly what I am looking for: Thought through and well within the framework.
As per your suggestion in chat, I will include this in a hopefully long list of ideas in the OP.

Thanks again!

[greghorvath]

Last update on 01.05.2012 21.15 CET

Likes: 42
Dislikes: 58

[greghorvath]

My early morning update did not appear for some reason...

So, likes: 42-43%
dislikes: 57-58%

[greghorvath]

Bumping for data.

[Severyx]

My brief thoughts on ABjerre's tweak idea -

I dislike any idea that 'guarantees' an ultra-rare, because that ultimately means they aren't rare at all and they deserve the garbage stats they have. That's game-breaking in layman's statistics terms, because you're changing the probabilities with your money. No, that's not good economics. Tell that to the game designers in charge of constantly monitoring MMO economies who have to contend with extreme amounts of inflation because people are getting access to typically very hard to get things by spending real money on them (AKA gold sellers).

That's like playing a F2P MMO and the only thing standing between you and the rarest, most powerful weapon is a couple bucks. Terrible, terrible design. You can try and tell me 'but no one would ever spend X dollars on getting all of the items!', but that doesn't change the fact that you're effectively breaking balanced game numbers.

This is why BioWare is ignoring all of your (the community) ideas. You have yet to come up with something that actually works and doesn't break the game. I know I'm using a lot of MMO examples, but that's because they're the best example of dealing with random elements, virtual money, and real money.

I don't know about you guys, but being one of the people who will never spend money on packs, I'd never play again if I saw that suddenly everyone except me had a VII black Widow, VII javelin or a X paladin knowing that all they had to do was lay down a few dollars for it.

[WaffleCrab]

I would like the store to stop giving things you have already unlocked(character cards) and instead have an increased chance for the things you havent unlocked yet. I am about 20 unlocks away from having all common, uncommon and rares unlocked, character options included, i got 3.1 mill stashed away for premium spectre packs when they come back, and something just tells me, i aint gonna see a single new ultra rare or even get the 20 unlocks to get all rares... the store system as it is, is complete BS.

[greghorvath]

Severyx wrote...

I dislike any idea that 'guarantees' an ultra-rare, because that ultimately means they aren't rare at all and they deserve the garbage stats they have. That's game-breaking in layman's statistics terms, because you're changing the probabilities with your money. No, that's not good economics. Tell that to the game designers in charge of constantly monitoring MMO economies who have to contend with extreme amounts of inflation because people are getting access to typically very hard to get things by spending real money on them (AKA gold sellers).

The changing of probablitites is already there with the pay for packs option. The current system, however, is built to advocate frustration instead of customer satisfaction. This may be better economics than ABjerre's suggestion (its not btw), but sure as hell it is a bad policy. Prices should be determined in a way that aims at balance and if someone wants to pay the price for everything: let them. I would not want to pay for anything else except the sniper rifles myself, but I would buy packs in the system Abjerre described. It is absolutely certain I will not pay any more in this system, which means no revenue for BW. 

That's like playing a F2P MMO and the only thing standing between you and the rarest, most powerful weapon is a couple bucks. Terrible, terrible design. You can try and tell me 'but no one would ever spend X dollars on getting all of the items!', but that doesn't change the fact that you're effectively breaking balanced game numbers.

I believe the rare weapons at lvl X are just as viable as any of the N7 weapons. Having the latter gives very little actual advantage over the maxed out rares. The attraction is the rarity and the designs. I don't think having them or not having them would actually result in game breaking, whilst a frustrating upgrade system, according to a recent survey () gives grief to at least 57% percent of the community.

This is why BioWare is ignoring all of your (the community) ideas. You have yet to come up with something that actually works and doesn't break the game. I know I'm using a lot of MMO examples, but that's because they're the best example of dealing with random elements, virtual money, and real money.

Being in the shadows listening does not equal ignoring. I have full confidence in Bioware. Yes, I do.

I don't know about you guys, but being one of the people who will never spend money on packs, I'd never play again if I saw that suddenly everyone except me had a VII black Widow, VII javelin or a X paladin knowing that all they had to do was lay down a few dollars for it.

Personally, I just couldn't care less what other people have. All I am interested in is what I have and how I use it. As everything else in this sick sad world, game development, as you obviously know, aims at getting your money. The blatant nature of the current system is what really irritates me, even though I have no problems giving people some of my money for something that entertains me. I even buy original dvds...

Modifié par greghorvath, 02 mai 2012 - 02:19 .

[january42]

2. Take out character cards you maxed out and give N7 instead, is again NOT (fully) ACCEPTABLE. This would damage the longevity many have remarked to be a good idea, as it keeps people involved for longer.
[/b]

Well, if your gonna rule out the only decent compromise, I'm not sure what to say.  The current system actually reduces longetivity as people will realize they arn't gonna get what they want pretty easily.

People would be much more likely to spend money on packs if they knew they were always going to get something they didn't have.   You also get the idea of "forward progresss". Even if the random system doesn't give you what you want, it' get you closer to what you want.  You don't have that now,  so when people ralize that, they will give up.

People who play now when they have all gold weapons maxed are playing because they like the game, not to unlock new weapons(which basicly doesn't happen).  The current store system is actually a source of frustration that makes it more likely they will leave.


Currently, there are 14 * 10=140 gold weapons, 12 consumable upgrades and 12 * 6 = 72 charachter cards.  And 3 respec cards. That's 227 gold slots before you get much in the way of N7 weapons. That is ALOT if you consider how much packs cost.  You could give lower weapons a priority over N7s (if they wern't maxed already).


In short, a system that always gives you something you don't have makes it much more likely that people spend real money. Equipment won't work. That just results in everyone having 200+ consumables and you get the same problem.

[greghorvath]

january42 wrote...

Well, if your gonna rule out the only decent compromise, I'm not sure what to say.  The current system actually reduces longetivity as people will realize they arn't gonna get what they want pretty easily.

People would be much more likely to spend money on packs if they knew they were always going to get something they didn't have.   You also get the idea of "forward progresss". Even if the random system doesn't give you what you want, it' get you closer to what you want.  You don't have that now,  so when people ralize that, they will give up.

People who play now when they have all gold weapons maxed are playing because they like the game, not to unlock new weapons(which basicly doesn't happen).  The current store system is actually a source of frustration that makes it more likely they will leave.

Currently, there are 14 * 10=140 gold weapons, 12 consumable upgrades and 12 * 6 = 72 charachter cards.  And 3 respec cards. That's 227 gold slots before you get much in the way of N7 weapons. That is ALOT if you consider how much packs cost.  You could give lower weapons a priority over N7s (if they wern't maxed already).

In short, a system that always gives you something you don't have makes it much more likely that people spend real money. Equipment won't work. That just results in everyone having 200+ consumables and you get the same problem. 

1. I was not trying to rule out anything, actually, just trying to give a framework. I am glad you found something to say regardless.
2. What you suggest is similar in nature to what Abjerre described in his post earlier. However, If the system is changed in a way that guarantees N7 unlocks for in game credits, you can be pretty sure noone will ever spend another cent on the store. Well, okay, there will be some... So, have you checked ABjerre's earlier post (synopsis in OP)? Do you have any ideas regarding that?
3. Equipment question: I tend to play a lot and tend to crash a lot as well. I have this thing against using lvl3 stuff because I hate losing them in a crash on wave 2 (as it incidentally happened today, incidentally playing with ABjerre (N.B. I am not suggesting it was his fault...), but if I had unlimited amounts of them, instead of the bloody thermal clips and the even more uselss ops survival ****s thingies, I would be less stingy... But I value your opinion, so thanks for sharing it!

[Agent-DCR]

Just bought 21 PSP packs, no widow or black widow... this is horrible, (also only 2 ultra rare unlocks).

I really wouldn't mind if it weren't for the fact that I keep getting the same items over and over again.

Would be great if they made it so that you can't get things anymore that you already have, that way there is at least a realistic chance to get some good equipment. The way the system works now there is no way in a million years I will ever get all the equipment I want.

Modifié par Agent-DCR, 02 mai 2012 - 08:40 .

[greghorvath]

Agent-DCR wrote...

Just bought 21 PSP packs, no widow or black widow... this is horrible, (also only 2 ultra rare unlocks).

I really wouldn't mind if it weren't for the fact that I keep getting the same items over and over again.

ouch... I have never had that much credits stacked away, but I know of people who have had even more traumatic experiences. Not that this will console you in any way, but at least you know you are not alone.

Modifié par greghorvath, 02 mai 2012 - 09:38 .

[Agent-DCR]

Yeah I missed out on the last PSP packs so I was saving my creds for next time, since they offer significantly more value, but even that apparently isn't a guarantee for some good gear.

Maxing rares is somewhat doable, but acquiring ultra's seems just downright impossible, let alone maxing them.

[greghorvath]

Maxing rares is doable. Just completed it yesternight!  Widow 10... nice....

Update: 6.30 CET 03.05.2012

Likes:43
Dislikes: 59

That makes 102%... At a sample size of 576, that means around 11,5 people must have voted without showing up in the vote count...

[greghorvath]

A load off my mind: back to 101% (phewww) 14.41 CET

Likes: 43%
Dislikes: 58%

[greghorvath]

Good morning Ladies and Gentlemen!

With a steady growth in the sample the Likes are still at 43% with the Dislikes holding the line at 58%.

04.05.2012 8.50 CET

[greghorvath]

Sitrep on 04.05.2012 22.00 CET

Likes: 43
Dislikes: 58

Tbh. I am starting to doubt this entire venture, as in spite of the steadily growing sample, I am getting disturbingly little feedback. If you are interested in this topic, if you are ready for a change and are willing to go about it in an organized way, do drop a line or two in this thread, just so it can appear to be more than a one man show.

[Agent-DCR]

People probably can't be bothered because of all the downtime/issues.

Modifié par Agent-DCR, 04 mai 2012 - 10:11 .

[greghorvath]

Agent-DCR wrote...

People probably can't be bothered because of all the downtime/issues.

There must be several (and more) reasons:

• general lack of interest
• people don't use the search function, just start random threads
• I am not doing a very good job of marketing this thing
• I started this questionnaire relatively late, so the initial murmur had time to die down. Seasoned players, having unlocked most unlockables, are just playing for the fun of it, newer players can't find the forum () or have not yet grown weary of this godawful system
• people don't think BW cares, so they can't be bothered to try

And numerous other reasons, which are much less interesting than the community's ideas on possible modifications how to make the game even better!

[Agent-DCR]

''people don't think BW cares, so they can't be bothered to try''

pretty much, for almost 4 days now their forums are being flooded with issues and people not being able to play, and yet they still manage to completely negate their community.