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MP store poll and idea compendium


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#201
greghorvath

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Copied from the poll comments:

Kai peng wrote

The upside of the system does not outweigh the negatives. Sure I have received a BW and Paladin in one PSP. But then after having 2 runs of 50+ packs with nothing the frustration far outweighs any joy that the game gives.

The Dr's did an interview where they stated that one of the tenets of a RPG is giving a sense of progression. With n7 ratings being effectively meaningless if you don't promote and the fact you can "buy" training - the only true measure of progression is the credits you earn. However because the random store system any sense of progress is killed when you spend 3-4M credits and get nothing but training.

Solution:
1. Release an n7 pack
or
2. Cap the number of non UR packs you can receive in a row
or
3. Award a UR for every 500 levels of N7 (this would encourage promoting and you wouldn't mind training so much)

The issue is not getting the UR's faster. They have designed the game so it will take hundreds or hours to complete a weapon set and I am fine with that. The frustration comes from the fact that you can get 5 UR's a single day and then have 3 weeks with nothing. Nearly every other system teg Halo, COD gives you a sense of progression with a little bar that increases. It is human psychology to want to see things increase.

Seeing things increase is so core to how we are built psychologically that nearly all RPG work tap into that. In single player you see your level rise, your powers grow and your weapons increase. With ME3 the only measure of progression is 1. n7 level or 2. Your manifest.

The fact that we can have no progression on the manifest makes you feel like you've wasted credits and time. Even Halo reach with the isane goals that will take years of daily play to reach have a little bar that increases a bit every game. ME3 would be a lot better if we had some solid way of feeling like we have progressed.

When you have millions of people playing a system that is randomised you will literally have thousands of people that will have an unsatisfactory experience when they eventually hit long runs of all character cards.

And please - dont say just play for fun. They designed the UR's to be desirable - we are meant to want them. If you say just play for fun then why don't you just stick with your avenger that you started with. They have designed the game to make us want black widows and sabres. Like the OP said, if they are going to dangle a carrot - we need some way of measuring our progress to the goal.

Spending 2-3 weeks and feeling no closer to the goal will frustrate and alienate many people.

I am including points 2 and 3 into the OP. Number 1 is already there (sort of).

Modifié par greghorvath, 18 mai 2012 - 02:07 .


#202
greghorvath

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Copied from a related thread:

xTorma wrote:

This is what i think they should do.

PSP should start at 1% chance to get ur. Every pack you buy raises this chance by 1%. When you get an UR. it resets. This way you can still have good luck, but if your luck sucks, you at least know you will eventually get one by default.

Included in OP.

Modifié par greghorvath, 18 mai 2012 - 02:14 .


#203
Stinja

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Ok, so to bump this thread and make the OP happy.

John123453242 wrote...

If you got them faster, then what?
After you have everything, you have nothing to play for. Play for the fun of the game. Don't play when it isn't fun.

Most other games survive after players unlock everything :?

Lets take Battlefield 3 as a comparison.
If I decide I like a certain style of play, I choose a class that compliments that, and a weapon that I enjoy.  After 1-2 weeks I will have everything unlocked for that particular set, and I can then enjoy the game playing as a soldier at peak performance.  My gun is maxed, with every attachment, and my time-investment sees real progress for my desires.  And both went up reasonably even with each other.I can then choose to try a different class/style/weapon.

with Mass Effect 3 however...
I decide I like a certain style of play, I choose a class that compliments that, and a weapon I enjoy. After 2 days I've maxed my class, but my weapon I still level I-III and I've unlocked no mods for it.  After 1-2 weeks I have unlock a lot of weapons I have no interest in, and still no mods.  I've unlocked a better gun of the one I enjoy, but that's never budged off level I.
I'm not seeing a real return for what I want, and my time-investment is looking poor.

Essentially what is a reasonable amount of time one should play before unlocking what they want?


Also, given EA is involved, why not pay to unlock specific stuff or everything?  Again to take BF3 as an example:

http://uk.gamespot.c...osts-40-6369685

The Ultimate Shortcut Bundle includes all vehicle upgrades, all class-unique weapons and gadgets, and all co-op weapons, giving players a total of 119 upgrades. Normally, those perks would need to be earned by
playing as the different classes, using vehicles, and completing the game's co-op campaign mode.

For those who want only some of the unlockables, EA has broken them out into their own packs, including the Kit Shortcut Bundle (all class unlocks) for 2,000 Microsoft points ($25), the Vehicle Shortcut Bundle for 1,440 Microsoft points ($18), and the Co-op Weapons Shortcut for 400 Microsoft points ($5). Getting even more granular, individual class unlocks are available for 560 Microsoft points ($7) each, while the Air Vehicle and Ground Vehicle Shortcuts are 800 Microsoft points ($10) each.


While i wouldnt pay us$40 for everything, it is an option, and i might buy say a "Shotgun Pack", which unlocks all shotguns for us$7.  And it makes the Bioware points and randomness look very poor in comparison to BF3's upgrade costs.  Would us$40 of credits unlock everything in ME3 :unsure:

It's the lack of control for me, you get no way to improve the chances to upgrade what you want currently.

Modifié par Stinja, 18 mai 2012 - 08:56 .


#204
greghorvath

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Stinja wrote...

Ok, so to bump this thread and make the OP happy.

Thank you. Now I am happy... :) (Its not really about happiness, is it? Its rather about the fact that nothing will happen, if we open thousands of threads without any attempt at coordination.)

If I decide I like a certain style of play, I choose a class that compliments that, and a weapon that I enjoy.  After 1-2 weeks I will have everything unlocked for that particular set, and I can then enjoy the game playing as a soldier at peak performance.  My gun is maxed, with every attachment, and my time-investment sees real progress for my desires.  And both went up reasonably even with each other.I can then choose to try a different class/style/weapon.

I couldn't agree with you more.

I'm not seeing a real return for what I want, and my time-investment is looking poor.

Exactly.




Also, given EA is involved, why not pay to unlock specific stuff or everything?

This is a possible solution I would personally support. However, If you take the time to browse through this thread, and other realted material you will find peopl feel quite strongly against such a solution. Hybrids and alternative solutions have been suggested.

While i wouldnt pay us$40 for everything, it is an option, and i might buy say a "Shotgun Pack", which unlocks all shotguns for us$7.  And it makes the Bioware points and randomness look very poor in comparison to BF3's upgrade costs.  Would us$40 of credits unlock everything in ME3

Fair point. Bundles is a good suggestion.

It's the lack of control for me, you get no way to improve the chances to upgrade what you want currently.

Well said.

#205
COLZ7R

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I cant see why anyone would have a problem if something like a n7 pack was added. the people who say they enjoy the random pack system could still buy psp's and sp 's and keep going that way if they really want to and the rest could grind away for the pts to get the n7 pack

#206
greghorvath

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COLZ7R wrote...

I cant see why anyone would have a problem if something like a n7 pack was added. the people who say they enjoy the random pack system could still buy psp's and sp 's and keep going that way if they really want to and the rest could grind away for the pts to get the n7 pack

That is so simple, that it never actually occured to me... Great... :o

Modifié par greghorvath, 18 mai 2012 - 02:15 .


#207
COLZ7R

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And you got your thread bumped again!! Yay you

#208
greghorvath

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 It is not entirely accidental that it takes me hours to answer every new post... ;) Its the best tactic if there is no significant traffic in the thread. However, I hope people will start posting here once they understand its in their interest this entire thing was set up...

#209
greghorvath

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Update: 17.20 19.05.2012

Likes: 41
Dislikes: 60

#210
mrcanada

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COLZ7R wrote...

I cant see why anyone would have a problem if something like a n7 pack was added. the people who say they enjoy the random pack system could still buy psp's and sp 's and keep going that way if they really want to and the rest could grind away for the pts to get the n7 pack


It's what I've been saying for a month and a half.

#211
greghorvath

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mrcanada wrote...

COLZ7R wrote...

I cant see why anyone would have a problem if something like a n7 pack was added. the people who say they enjoy the random pack system could still buy psp's and sp 's and keep going that way if they really want to and the rest could grind away for the pts to get the n7 pack


It's what I've been saying for a month and a half.

Of course, then people would whine even worse about the many lobbies farming geth and so on and so forth. What I like in COLZ7R's post is the simple straightforward rationale, but for actual implementation, I would personally like to see something that does not involve hours upon hours of mindless farming as this is very similar to what we have now...

Modifié par greghorvath, 19 mai 2012 - 08:47 .


#212
greghorvath

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With ove 700 votes right now (20.05.2012) the Multiplayer store system poll is in the first 150 polls based on the number of votes. Not bad, considering there are more than 26000 of them so far...

Thanks for everyone that voted, but please remember we need a lrage sample so we can show the community (not just a fragment of it) wants a change. So, bring your friends and relatives! :D

Modifié par greghorvath, 20 mai 2012 - 06:09 .


#213
Stinja

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greghorvath wrote...

Update: 17.20 19.05.2012

Likes: 41
Dislikes: 60


I never actually voted in the poll.

Fixed B)

greghorvath wrote...
 It is not entirely accidental that it takes me hours to answer every new post...


I have many thoughts and questions, but limited time.  I'll try to ask one every few days, when this is on page 5+ ;)

Modifié par Stinja, 20 mai 2012 - 08:05 .


#214
greghorvath

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Stinja wrote...
I have many thoughts and questions, but limited time.  I'll try to ask one every few days, when this is on page 5+ ;)

Much appreciated, my good sir! :wizard: I'll try not to let it fall so far back, and your comments may generate attention and new posts, so please don't wait too long... :o

And update: 21.26 CET, 20.05.2012 
sample size: 710

Likes: 41
Dislikes: 60

Modifié par greghorvath, 20 mai 2012 - 07:28 .


#215
greghorvath

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No update just now (no change in results) jus bumping for more data!

VOTE, YOU!

#216
greghorvath

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Sitrep and databump:

Sample size is 724 and ratios have not changed.

#217
greghorvath

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Good morning!. No change (two votes more compared to 12 hours ago). Need more data.

#218
greghorvath

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Losing hope again... need... more... people... bumping....

#219
greghorvath

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Good morning!

5.30 CET 23.05.2012

Likes: 41
Dislikes: 60

#220
greghorvath

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Breakdown. (take two)

Poll is at 741 votes at 14.20 CET on 23.05.2012.

Current results:

1. I like the random drop store system.  9%(65 votes)
2. I like the random drop store system and have spent real money on packs. 5%(39 votes)
3. I do not like the random drop store system. 9%(68 votes)
4. I do not like the random drop store system, but I have spent real money on packs. 5%(34 votes)
5. Option 1 + but I would never spend real money in an in game store. 12%(91 votes)
6. Option 3 + and I would never spend real money in an in game store. 12%(89 votes)
7. Option 1 or 2 + but I would prefer a system where I knew what I was buying. 10%(74 votes)
8. Option 3 or 4 + and I would prefer a system where I knew what I was buying. 18%(137 votes)
9. Option 1 or 2 + I would probably spend (more) real money in a system where I knew what I was buying. 5%(36 votes)
10. Option 3 or 4 + but I would probably spend (more) real money in a system where I knew what I was buying. 15%(108 votes)

The simplest reading of the result is that options for Likes (1, 2, 5, 7, 9) are at: 41% and Dislikes (3,4,6, 8, 10) are at 59%.

Decide for yourself whether a ~41% "succes rate" is acceptable or not...

If we look at the options in detail, we see that the ratios are actually not as clear cut: those that actually like the current system as it is (1, 2, 5) make up only 26% of the votes. That means that about 74% of players want some sort of a change. 74 vs 24. Not much of a question there either.

Of course, this 74% differs in their opinion as to the extent of change they would like, but the fact remains they want something different. 

I would like to draw attention to the above percentage of those responsible for quality control at Bioware.  

In addition to the staggering ratio of people wanting change over those that don't, the money making potential is worth another look. 

Excluding the 24% who deny the possiblility of spending money in game, only 10% say that they have spent money and remain obscure in terms of future spending possibilities (2, 4). On the other hand, 20 percent declares they would in fact spend (more) money in a store where they would know what they are buying. 10% vs. 20%, means twice the money... 

If you add those that remained unspecific concerning their "spending willingness" (7,8) to the 20% you have a whooping 58% who just might consider spending some money if the store conformed to their needs. That is a lot.

I know the conclusions are quasi-scientific and a professional could have made the poll many times as good. But it is clear the recent bits of scrap we have been thrown in the form of the tweaks of late are not enough. A change is due. A change that enables all of us to get what we want from the game (fun to one - funds to the other).

The sample is growing, but momentum is needed. If you have any interest in this, please, spread the word as best you can. Thanks.

Modifié par greghorvath, 23 mai 2012 - 06:13 .


#221
greghorvath

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I am thinking of repurposing this thread to something like this:

" Dear Diary..."

#222
greghorvath

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Dear Diary!

For the last month or so I have had the illusion I could rally the people on the BSN to the common cause of gathering information about the MP store system. Evidently, I was wrong. I am trying to to comfort myself in various ways, but to be honest, I am just bewildered by the lack of focus and interest of my fellow forumites.

Well, at least I have this thread to roam in freely in solitude...

Modifié par greghorvath, 24 mai 2012 - 07:27 .


#223
greghorvath

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Dear Diary!


OOOOh! Very exciting things happening in the poll. The "likers" have gained some ground and are now at 42%. I really am rooting for the other side, who are now at 59%, but any kind of information is still: information.

I have also had some pretty strong beer tonight, so its off to bed for me.

#224
greghorvath

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Dear Diary!

While waiting for the new MP DLC I returned to my single player engineer run. I think I am finally starting to get the hang of the engineer. Not saying I am good, but I notice I tend to die less, which I think at least looks like improvement. However, insanity may not be the best for trying out a new class...

One thing I noticed as well is that how the music of ME3 is infinitely inferior to that of ME2...

P.S. The poll sample size is growing, we have 751 atm.

#225
greghorvath

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Did anyone else notice in the new DLC description the part about the new objective type?

NEW IN-MISSION OBJECTIVE

  • Randomly occurring during waves 3, 6 and 10, this new objective will
    demand that teams retrieve a high priority package and securely escort
    it to a designated extraction zone on each map.

[*]This should make things interesting. Especially in FBWGG... :D

Modifié par greghorvath, 25 mai 2012 - 08:01 .