54 réponses à ce sujet

[Geist.H]

btw sorry its 6/0/6/6/6
forgot bb is 1st and blade armor is 2nd, ur right about the synergy, thats my arguement, but since it lacks tech/biotic combos, there are those who say to use something more viable for gold, altho i cant really argue with them, this close-quarters aoe class is effin insane, test it on bronze till u get the playstyle down, then move to silver, and laugh as u become the next hated after novaguard because u roughly do the same thing

Made the same mistake writing hastily then, 6/0/6/6/6

I'll consdier this.

I would like to say that one of the best CC
classes in the game is hardly lacking group synergy, though. Might not
be as immediate as burst/boom primer, but it's definitely a team play
mechanic.

You can lock down a lane by yourself... The Batarian soldier is INSANE on Glacier, easy to top score here. team synergy ? Just have a Quarian Engineer Cryo Blast on top of it for 25% more dps and halved armor for the lulz... Or anyone with Incinerate AoE. It has plenty of synergies, incendiary ammos are your friends.

Modifié par Geist.H, 23 avril 2012 - 12:51 .

[DarkAedin]

Geist.H wrote...

btw sorry its 6/0/6/6/6
forgot bb is 1st and blade armor is 2nd, ur right about the synergy, thats my arguement, but since it lacks tech/biotic combos, there are those who say to use something more viable for gold, altho i cant really argue with them, this close-quarters aoe class is effin insane, test it on bronze till u get the playstyle down, then move to silver, and laugh as u become the next hated after novaguard because u roughly do the same thing

Made the same mistake writing hastily then, 6/0/6/6/6

I'll consdier this.

I would like to say that one of the best CC
classes in the game is hardly lacking group synergy, though. Might not
be as immediate as burst/boom primer, but it's definitely a team play
mechanic.

You can lock down a lane by yourself... The Batarian soldier is INSANE on Glacier, easy to top score here. team synergy ? Just have a Quarian Engineer Cryo Blast on top of it for 25% more dps and halved armor for the lulz... Or anyone with Incinerate AoE. It has plenty of synergies, incendiary ammos are your friends.

yea, once i figured out this build, my normal team starting treating me the same as they did when i was using the novaguard, this character is a face roll if used SMARTLY

[MrGuse]

astheoceansblue wrote...

It depends on the class.

.

That's all that needs to be said. Really.

[King ManBeerPig]

In my experience, most classes have one redundant or "least" useful skill - and fitness is never it. Fitness is always on, always protecting you, never competing with your other skills on the cooldown bar. I always max fitness on my characters.

[Dashmundo]

King ManBeerPig wrote...

In my experience, most classes have one redundant or "least" useful skill - and fitness is never it. Fitness is always on, always protecting you, never competing with your other skills on the cooldown bar. I always max fitness on my characters.

Asari Adept? Human Sentinel? Turian Sentinel? Geth Engineer (although personally I only put 3 into Hunter Mode, I know plenty who max it).

[Cette]

I have a hell of a hard time prying more than the first three bars of fitness out of a Human engineers skill set.

Everyone else get's full fitness if I have to pull a few points from a passive to get what I need then it'll come from training.

[Skullheart]

fitness is mandatory for my melee GI.

[Grimy Bunyip]

People always talk about dumping fitness, but what about the racial?

especially for biotic detonators and infiltrators.
all you get from it for weight, weapon damage, and power damage.

weight is useless for most infiltrators since most infiltrators go with 1 weapon and MAYBE an SMG these days.
Maybe a little weight capacity is useful on adepts so they can carry a slightly heavier gun. But asari can carry a phalanx without it, and a carnifex with rank 3 in it.

Weapon damage is not terribly useful because of how it stacks with tactical cloak. It translates to like +10% weapon damage -> +4% actual damage per shot.
I suppose weapon damage could be useful on adepts. You actually need to shoot in between casting if you want to keep up in score with an infiltrator.
But it's not like the many adepts actually do that.

power damage isn't too important on infiltrators.
and for adepts, power damage doesn't affect biotic detonations. So once again, not too useful.

[D4rk50ul808]

Yeah I think people think power makes them kill faster. AA adept is always 6/6/6/0/6 because all I do is stasis and detonations, why do I care how much damage the individual skills do. You can overcome 15% power damage quite easily with skilled play. The difference between a Marauder killing you with one burst and you still having shields left over is priceless. The less time you are in cover or laying on the ground, the more time you are killing things.

Modifié par D4rk50ul808, 23 avril 2012 - 03:07 .

[mybudgee]

I like to melee when I can safely, so I use fitness..

[Fortack]

Grimy Bunyip wrote...

power damage isn't too important on infiltrators.
and for adepts, power damage doesn't affect biotic detonations. So once again, not too useful.

Not getting shot is kinda the point of playing Infiltrator (who have an easy - Cloak - time) and Adept (or other casting heavy classes). The health bonus is pointless b/c most of the time you'll be down to one bar anyway (- 80% health bonus). Extra shield make very little difference for classes that lack racial bonuses. The only interesting thing in the Fitness tree is the 15% shield recharge bonus and the melee boost if you spec your class for some face slapping

[Geist.H]

People always talk about dumping fitness, but what about the racial?

especially for biotic detonators and infiltrators.
all you get from it for weight, weapon damage, and power damage.

weight is useless for most infiltrators since most infiltrators go with 1 weapon and MAYBE an SMG these days.
Maybe a little weight capacity is useful on adepts so they can carry a slightly heavier gun. But asari can carry a phalanx without it, and a carnifex with rank 3 in it.

Weapon damage is not terribly useful because of how it stacks with tactical cloak. It translates to like +10% weapon damage -> +4% actual damage per shot.
I suppose weapon damage could be useful on adepts. You actually need to shoot in between casting if you want to keep up in score with an infiltrator.
But it's not like the many adepts actually do that.

power damage isn't too important on infiltrators.
and for adepts, power damage doesn't affect biotic detonations. So once again, not too useful.

You don't understand, speccing weapon damage in your racial is VITAL, it's the only way to do DPS with revenant and widow on your Engineer/Adept... *cough*

I agree.

There is no reason in existence to waste a point on the Quarian last perks for the Engineer, for instance. It's just that bad and useless.

Modifié par Geist.H, 23 avril 2012 - 03:29 .

[Rhaina]

Fitness has its uses, justifying sloppy game play is not one of them if you expect to be taken seriously.

[Sabbatine]

Geist.H wrote...

With my Gengineer, Advanced Hardware is redundant because I will rely on shield-gating, if I'm hit by something when my shield is down, I will die, having 250 or 400 health doesn't matter.

Uh... yes it does matter, unless you're being hit by a super heavy.  The additional health and shields greatly improves your durability against the enemies who will be hitting you most often... the basic troops.

[Hiero Glyph]

To be fair there is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

Let's start with Geth and Hunter Mode. Many claim that Advanced Hardware is useless but they fail to note that all the health and shield bonuses are not affected by the 50% shield drain for having Hunter Mode active. That 50% shield drain cost comes entirely from the base shields alone. This means that investing into Advanced Hardware increses your health, which is rather negligible, but also gives you the entire shield bonus not just 50% of that bonus when Hunter Mode is active.

Another misconception comes from biotic explosion builds. Often players want to increase their damage so they invest into the equivalent of Alliance Training. The damage from a biotic explosion is based on a percentage and scales with the difficulty so only the rank of the skills used to setup and detonate the biotic explosion actually matter (unless the skill has a bonus to the detonation damage directly). As a result, investing into added power damage only affects the skill's initial hit, not the biotic explosion. What this means is that Fitness or the equivalent to it is often the only choice available since investing into weapon or power damage simply does not compare to the damage from a biotic explosion, especially on Gold.

Modifié par Hiero Glyph, 23 avril 2012 - 04:43 .

[mrcanada]

Not as useful? Maybe, but Rank 5 is extremely handy and that 15% makes a difference if you are relying on shield gating. Unless I know you, I don't want to play with your character and their no shields in a PUB. Most who spec this way, go down far more then they let on.

[Geist.H]

Uh... yes it does matter, unless you're being hit by a super heavy. The additional health and shields greatly improves your durability against the enemies who will be hitting you most often... the basic troops.

Once again, if i'm caught with Hunter's mode toggled on, having full AH will change nothing, the centurion will take out my shield in one burst, then my health in one burst since they have multi-hit attacks.

With my Gengineer, my job is to keep trash, HM&Falcon = troopers don't kill you, phantoms/guardians/engineers/nemesis sniping you from the other side of Hydra do, and it takes the same amount of hits:

shield, health-gate, killing blow.

AH 0 or 6, HM turned on or not, it's the same.

The only way to make use of AH is to use cyclonic modulators, which i'm not going to waste on the GE. Timing shield-gating with my turret recovery is all I need.

Rank 5 is extremely handy and that 15% makes a difference

You already get +10% faster recovery with level 3 geth AH, which is unique. I spec 6/6/6/4/4 and I have all the survivability I need because of my gun, not because I waste points in 200 more shield points and 100 health. And no, I'm not hugging covers.

Playing smart and using crowd control >>> Fitness.

Modifié par Geist.H, 23 avril 2012 - 05:06 .

[Hiero Glyph]

Geist.H wrote...

Uh... yes it does matter, unless you're being hit by a super heavy. The additional health and shields greatly improves your durability against the enemies who will be hitting you most often... the basic troops.

Once again, if i'm caught with Hunter's mode toggled on, having full AH will change nothing, the centurion will take out my shield in one burst, then my health in one burst since they have multi-hit attacks.

With my Gengineer, my job is to keep trash, HM&Falcon = troopers don't kill you, phantoms/guardians/engineers/nemesis sniping you from the other side of Hydra do, and it takes the same amount of hits:

shield, health-gate, killing blow.

AH 0 or 6, HM turned on or not, it's the same.

The only way to make use of AH is to use cyclonic modulators, which i'm not going to waste on the GE. Timing shield-gating with my turret recovery is all I need.

Rank 5 is extremely handy and that 15% makes a difference

You already get +10% faster recovery with level 3 geth AH, which is unique. I spec 6/6/6/4/4 and I have all the survivability I need because of my gun, not because I waste points in 200 more shield points and 100 health. And no, I'm not hugging covers.

Playing smart and using crowd control >>> Fitness.

This is exactly the type of misinformation that I am talking about though.  Take the Geth's shields.  Advanced Hardware gives them  a shield bonus that is not reduced by Hunter Mode in any way.  As a result, that 10% shield bonus does a whole lot more for Geth than it does for the other races.  What is 10% of the Geth's base shields?  How about 15%?  25%?  As you can see these values are not reduced by Hunter Mode and they are much larger than the Human equivalent from 500 base shields.  This means that Advanced Hardware (read: Fitness) does more for the Geth than for just about any other race.

Note that you still take a lot of damage on Gold and require cover to survive but that does not make the added shields negligible in any way, shape or form.

Modifié par Hiero Glyph, 23 avril 2012 - 05:39 .

[Geist.H]

The numbers don't matter, you still die with the same amount of attacks from enemies because they massively outdps the gain from AH. Not worth the points.

Oh yeah I have 700 shield instead of 500 in Hunter Mode*, great, the phantom will still kill me in 3 hits, the marauders in 2 attacks, a grenade instantly.. Etc

It's useful on bronze and a bit on silver I guess.

*which feels weird because my turret restores 525 shielding, which refills my whole bar when I just lost my shield.

Modifié par Geist.H, 23 avril 2012 - 05:43 .

[mrcanada]

The shield recharges stack.

[CrashFu]

I've always wondered what game people who say "just never get hit in the first place" are playing.

Then again, they're probably the folks you get one or two of in every (silver) match, who spend the entire game hiding at the map's starting area, never uncloaked for more than a second and never attacking anything unless their teammates already have it covered, never capturing objectives or in any way contributing to the success of the mission...

For the REST of us, getting flanked while saving teammates or dealing with objectives is in fact a reality of the game, and so is getting shot by more than one enemy in the same instant. You don't count on a single-shot weapon to one-hit-kill a shielded enemy on Gold difficulty (with a couple specific exceptions), so why should anyone think shield gate is going to keep THEM alive? What keeps you alive on gold difficulty is having enough health, shields, and or damage resist to take a FEW shots without worry, and having teammates who will watch your back.

[suprarj]

D4rk50ul808 wrote...

Yeah I think people think power makes them kill faster. AA adept is always 6/6/6/0/6 because all I do is stasis and detonations, why do I care how much damage the individual skills do. You can overcome 15% power damage quite easily with skilled play. The difference between a Marauder killing you with one burst and you still having shields left over is priceless. The less time you are in cover or laying on the ground, the more time you are killing things.

You can also overcome the entire fitness tree by skilled play. 

[Geist.H]

You can also overcome the entire fitness tree by skilled play.

And without using cover, thanks to a certain weapon, crowd control and map awareness.

[Sabbatine]

Geist.H wrote...

Uh... yes it does matter, unless you're being hit by a super heavy. The additional health and shields greatly improves your durability against the enemies who will be hitting you most often... the basic troops.

Once again, if i'm caught with Hunter's mode toggled on, having full AH will change nothing, the centurion will take out my shield in one burst, then my health in one burst since they have multi-hit attacks.

They may have multi hit attacks but they do not have perfect accuracy and if you're standing still enough to allow them to hit with more than a few of their shots no amount of health or shields would be sufficient to keep you alive on gold.  Fitness allows you to retain operation effectiveness longer, not play like an idiot and survive.

Geist.H wrote... 

Rank 5 is extremely handy and that 15% makes a difference

You already get +10% faster recovery with level 3 geth AH, which is unique. I spec 6/6/6/4/4 and I have all the survivability I need because of my gun, not because I waste points in 200 more shield points and 100 health. And no, I'm not hugging covers.

Playing smart and using crowd control >>> Fitness.

The two are not mutually exclusive and the person who plays smart, uses crowd control, and has fitness will be the most effective team mate in the end.

[Scottus4]

Fitness is amazing. When your shield goes from taking one hit before popping to two hits, you get a HUGE survivability boost. People say this and that about the shield gate, but you also have another "gate" that protects your last bit of HP so that you can never actually die in two hits (sync kill aside). Basically, when your shield takes two hits to pop, you will never die to a Geth Prime, or a Rocket Trooper, or any other enemy that has large hits where most of the damage is absorbed by these "gates".

Honestly, I find Geth Turrets to be more of a danger than primes, since when your shield is low they can finish you off since each projectile from their burst counts towards each gate, not the whole burst.