187 réponses à ce sujet

[astheoceansblue]

maxtofunator wrote...This isn't what I'm saying exactly. It is more based on the idea that they try to keep the games as close to being the same as they can, which is why modders get banned...
You can edit the FOV by yourself, and go ahead and do it, but I say that bioware should not ALLOW you to do

No, the reaosn modders get banned is they hack the game for personal gain.

Please, you really do need to watch the videos I linked to to understand the importance of increased FOV on PC and why it doesn't matter on consoles.

Modifié par astheoceansblue, 23 avril 2012 - 04:56 .

[Quxorda]

astheoceansblue wrote...

maxtofunator wrote...This isn't what I'm saying exactly. It is more based on the idea that they try to keep the games as close to being the same as they can, which is why modders get banned...
You can edit the FOV by yourself, and go ahead and do it, but I say that bioware should not ALLOW you to do

No, the reaosn modders get banned is they hack the game for personal gain.

Please, you really do need to watch the videos I linked to to understand the importance of increased FOV on PC and why it doesn't matter on consoles.

Unfortunately this is the biggest problem in getting things like this fixed, a lot of people either don't understand it or don't suffer the ill effects from it (or both) and thus make blind posts saying it's fine. Same type of posts pop up in the HM fix threads. 

[astheoceansblue]

Zehtuka wrote...
If they would suddenly start checking the file integrity they would not ban every random joe out there with an incorrect checksum. If you ever played a game with Punkbuster you should know that you get kicked for an "MD5  checksum error" rather than a character wipe/account ban.

http://social.biowar...3/index/9895899 

They could easily ban for any edit made to the file in MP. There's absolutely no way to assure anyone they wouldn't when they're using blanket statments and not being specific about a thing.

Of course their statement that they are being thorough to ensure only cheaters are banned could mean they'd ignore edits such as this, but still there's no way to tell what they consider to be a cheat.

You can use all the logical reasoning you like, but unless the devs say it's ok if could be punished.

And while you're right in that we probably won't ever get any word on this, it's worth a shot. you never know, they might be one of the first development companies to actually see sense on the issue.

[Kikaimegami]

Quxorda wrote...

Unfortunately this is the biggest problem in getting things like this fixed, a lot of people either don't understand it or don't suffer the ill effects from it (or both) and thus make blind posts saying it's fine. Same type of posts pop up in the HM fix threads. 

Especially when the problems some people have are entirely medical. There's just some people who do not understand migraines at all, less so being able to get them from something like this. Then there's some people who have had migraines, yet can't understand ocular migraines.

It's enough to give me a migraine (baboom-tish).

[maxtofunator]

Quxorda wrote...

astheoceansblue wrote...

maxtofunator wrote...This isn't what I'm saying exactly. It is more based on the idea that they try to keep the games as close to being the same as they can, which is why modders get banned...
You can edit the FOV by yourself, and go ahead and do it, but I say that bioware should not ALLOW you to do

No, the reaosn modders get banned is they hack the game for personal gain.

Please, you really do need to watch the videos I linked to to understand the importance of increased FOV on PC and why it doesn't matter on consoles.

Unfortunately this is the biggest problem in getting things like this fixed, a lot of people either don't understand it or don't suffer the ill effects from it (or both) and thus make blind posts saying it's fine. Same type of posts pop up in the HM fix threads. 

By fixing it, they could mess it up again. I'm not blind posting, but hunter mode IS fine for some people right now, not everyone is the same. HM kills my eyes, so I don't play geth, though I'd like to. But by fixing it, they may then mess it up for the other people. And if you edit the FOV it would possibly add sight that you SHOULDN'T have is the thing. 

[Kikaimegami]

astheoceansblue wrote...


Of course their statement that they are being thorough to ensure only cheaters are banned could mean they'd ignore edits such as this, but still there's no way to tell what they consider to be a cheat.

I'm betting that their servers probably keep a logfile of credits/experience gained per match that has to, for whatever messed up reason, be checked manually by an actual person instead of being monitored automatically for cheating. They check the logs when people report cheating instead of having the server keep an eye on it.

I could be completely wrong, of course, but it'd be damned easy to keep logs like this.

[BlackAlpha]

maxtofunator wrote...

Kikaimegami wrote...

Cobra84 wrote...

maxtofunator wrote...

How is this fair at all for console players? Unless there is a way for us to do this, you won't get it

Your underpowered hardware is why the fov is so low in the first place. PC already has trhings you don't like mods, graphics options, and custom control configurations.

Plus, we're not even allowed in the same MP matches. PC players don't have an advantage over console players, because we're never allowed to mingle in the first place.

This isn't what I'm saying exactly. It is more based on the idea that they try to keep the games as close to being the same as they can, which is why modders get banned...
You can edit the FOV by yourself, and go ahead and do it, but I say that bioware should not ALLOW you to do

Your argument is flawed. You are saying that the PC and console players should get a similar experience, therefore the PC players must stick to the same FOV. But! Limiting the FOV for PC players is like not allowing them to use a mouse. Just like adding mouse and keyboard support, a higher FOV is a standard thing for a PC game. Simply check the video the OP posted. Without a higher FOV, the screen looks weird, not natural, and people get problems with their eyes.

By not getting an increased FOW, the PC players get a game in which the camera feels unnatural and out of place, unlike on the console version. So the PC players get a worse experience. Using your logic, the PC players MUST get the increased FOV or not all platforms get the same experience.

By the way, your other argument makes no sense. PC and console players cannot play with each other. So the PC players do not get an advantage over anyone. 

Modifié par BlackAlpha, 23 avril 2012 - 05:21 .

[astheoceansblue]

maxtofunator wrote...

By fixing it, they could mess it up again. I'm not blind posting, but hunter mode IS fine for some people right now, not everyone is the same. HM kills my eyes, so I don't play geth, though I'd like to. But by fixing it, they may then mess it up for the other people. 

Please, take a look at what you've written.

Firslty, HM causes physical pain for some people. all they need to do is tone it down. The worst this will do is annoy some people who liked the way the mode looked before. But some people being annyoyed is a much greater result than some peopel being in actual physical pain.

I'm not sure how you can argue differently.

maxtofunator wrote... 
And if you edit the FOV it would possibly add sight that you SHOULDN'T have is the thing.  

Sight you shouldn't have matters how exactly in a purely co-op game? And as it will be avaialbe to every single PC player, it matters even less!

You're argueing against something that:

1. Wouldn't even affect you as you play on consoles.
2. Would improve the experience for all PC players.

Low FOV also causes health problems for people too, so a fix would be beneficial in more than just allowing for the improvements avaialble with PC hardware.

There's absolute ZERO reason to argue against an FOV increase on PC in this game.

Kikaimegami wrote...

astheoceansblue wrote...


Of course their statement that they are being thorough to ensure only cheaters are banned could mean they'd ignore edits such as this, but still there's no way to tell what they consider to be a cheat.

I'm betting that their servers probably keep a logfile of credits/experience gained per match that has to, for whatever messed up reason, be checked manually by an actual person instead of being monitored automatically for cheating. They check the logs when people report cheating instead of having the server keep an eye on it.

I could be completely wrong, of course, but it'd be damned easy to keep logs like this.

 

I understand, I'm just not willing to risk all the time I've invested, not yet anyway... 

it's getting to the point thugh that the FOV is becoming more and more irritating, especially as I've literally just been through all my other games and found FOV fixes and brought them up to a modern standard.

And as I played through ME3 with the fixe enabled, MP feels very strange being stuck in such an archaic view.

Who knows, one day soon I might just say to hell with it...

Modifié par astheoceansblue, 23 avril 2012 - 05:25 .

[maxtofunator]

BlackAlpha wrote...

maxtofunator wrote...

Kikaimegami wrote...

Cobra84 wrote...

maxtofunator wrote...

How is this fair at all for console players? Unless there is a way for us to do this, you won't get it

Your underpowered hardware is why the fov is so low in the first place. PC already has trhings you don't like mods, graphics options, and custom control configurations.

Plus, we're not even allowed in the same MP matches. PC players don't have an advantage over console players, because we're never allowed to mingle in the first place.

This isn't what I'm saying exactly. It is more based on the idea that they try to keep the games as close to being the same as they can, which is why modders get banned...
You can edit the FOV by yourself, and go ahead and do it, but I say that bioware should not ALLOW you to do

Your argument is flawed. You are saying that the PC and console players should get a similar experience, therefore the PC players must stick to the same FOV. But! Limiting the FOV for PC players is like not allowing them to use a mouse. Just like adding mouse and keyboard support, a higher FOV is a standard thing for a PC game. Simply check the video the OP posted. Without a higher FOV, the screen looks weird, not natural, and people get problems with their eyes.

that's not what I mean by advantage. Lets look at a game like Skyrim real quick, on the PC, a player can mod their weapon EASILY to instakill somebody. Now try that on your xbox, it becomes a lot harder. Is that fair?
I know the argument is for FOV, but it is a rocky road, and then if I can increase FOV on the pc, who's to say let's just not increase it more, and more, and then hey screw it, let's give them a full range of view up to 180 degrees if they want because people keep complaining

[Quxorda]

maxtofunator wrote...

Quxorda wrote...

astheoceansblue wrote...

maxtofunator wrote...This isn't what I'm saying exactly. It is more based on the idea that they try to keep the games as close to being the same as they can, which is why modders get banned...
You can edit the FOV by yourself, and go ahead and do it, but I say that bioware should not ALLOW you to do

No, the reaosn modders get banned is they hack the game for personal gain.

Please, you really do need to watch the videos I linked to to understand the importance of increased FOV on PC and why it doesn't matter on consoles.

Unfortunately this is the biggest problem in getting things like this fixed, a lot of people either don't understand it or don't suffer the ill effects from it (or both) and thus make blind posts saying it's fine. Same type of posts pop up in the HM fix threads. 

By fixing it, they could mess it up again. I'm not blind posting, but hunter mode IS fine for some people right now, not everyone is the same. HM kills my eyes, so I don't play geth, though I'd like to. But by fixing it, they may then mess it up for the other people. And if you edit the FOV it would possibly add sight that you SHOULDN'T have is the thing. 

The only change HM needs is the blur reduced or removed and possibly the brightness toned down - it's primarily the blur effect that causes peopels problems and doing those two things isn't going to mess anything up.

Also, you aren't seeing what you should be seeing now, that's the problem. Sitting at a PC monitor, your brain can't process why you have barely any peripheral vision and this gives people headaches, motion sickness, dizzyness and other problems. This isn't a game balance issue,  every single 3D PC game should have a FoV slider - if it doesn't then it is not a functional PC game in the way any gamebreaking bug renders a game non-functional.  Right now you are playing with the equivlent of horse blinders on, that isn't natural and it isn't a legitiment balance option for a game because it causes a large number of people health problems.

Consoles use limited FoV because people play consoles on larger screens (TVs) from further away, they also use it as a way to squeeze more graphic fidelity out of the nearly eight year old console hardware (less FoV means fewer things have to be rendered). Neither of these are aplicable to PC games.

Changing your FoV on PC is not cheating, it is not breaking balance, games designed for PC need to be designed with a high or adjustable FoV in mind because it is important for the platform. You really should watch the videos in the OP, they explain all of this quite well.

[BlackAlpha]

maxtofunator wrote...

that's not what I mean by advantage. Lets look at a game like Skyrim real quick, on the PC, a player can mod their weapon EASILY to instakill somebody. Now try that on your xbox, it becomes a lot harder. Is that fair?
I know the argument is for FOV, but it is a rocky road, and then if I can increase FOV on the pc, who's to say let's just not increase it more, and more, and then hey screw it, let's give them a full range of view up to 180 degrees if they want because people keep complaining

I don't see what the problem is. You put a cap on 95 degrees and you are all set. Maybe you aren't a PC player, so you don't understand. There are many games that allow you to change your FOV in the options menu, and there are no problems there, so why should there be problems here?

Modifié par BlackAlpha, 23 avril 2012 - 05:23 .

[astheoceansblue]

maxtofunator wrote...

that's not what I mean by advantage. Lets look at a game like Skyrim real quick, on the PC, a player can mod their weapon EASILY to instakill somebody. Now try that on your xbox, it becomes a lot harder. Is that fair?
I know the argument is for FOV, but it is a rocky road, and then if I can increase FOV on the pc, who's to say let's just not increase it more, and more, and then hey screw it, let's give them a full range of view up to 180 degrees if they want because people keep complaining

This quote proves that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Please, please watch the videos to understand why no one would be asking for such ridiculous FOV amounts, and why it's almost essential to PC gaming to have greater than 60 degrees (around 90 is what most of us need).

If you can't take the time to do that, then I'd ask you to please stop posting your uninformed arguments here.

Cheers!

Modifié par astheoceansblue, 23 avril 2012 - 05:31 .

[Kikaimegami]

maxtofunator wrote...


that's not what I mean by advantage. Lets look at a game like Skyrim real quick, on the PC, a player can mod their weapon EASILY to instakill somebody. Now try that on your xbox, it becomes a lot harder. Is that fair?
I know the argument is for FOV, but it is a rocky road, and then if I can increase FOV on the pc, who's to say let's just not increase it more, and more, and then hey screw it, let's give them a full range of view up to 180 degrees if they want because people keep complaining

What.

Reread what you just wrote. Does that even sound like a remotely sane argument to you? Really?

Also, you should try setting FOV to 180 on a game sometime. If you think we're having problems with our eyes and getting headaches with the current crappy FOV, you should try playing something with the FOV set to anything above 120 

[XCPTNL]

I play with FOV 90 ever since the game came out if I remember correctly. The only downside to modding the coalesced file is that you have to redo this sometimes after an update. But I can live with that.

Also, they already said a long time ago, they would only take actions against people who modify their game to gain unfair progression, unfair advantage, or affect the experience of other players. FOV changes don't really fall into that category.

ORIGINAL POST

[astheoceansblue]

Korjyan wrote...

I play with FOV 90 ever since the game came out if I remember correctly. The only downside to modding the coalesced file is that you have to redo this sometimes after an update. But I can live with that.

Also, they already said a long time ago, they would only take actions against people who modify their game to gain unfair progression, unfair advantage, or affect the experience of other players. FOV changes don't really fall into that category.

ORIGINAL POST

Still murcky waters. If they're talking about unfair advantage at all  in a purely co-op game (when surely all advantage is for the benefit of the team), then adjusted FOV could fall into what that category.

It would be silly for it it, but then the gaming world is full of precident for ridiculous decisions from dev teams.

As I said, I'm going to weigh it up and might just go ahead with the fix myself anyway. Right now the game feels very cumbersome to play.

Modifié par astheoceansblue, 23 avril 2012 - 05:35 .

[JGDD]

Korjyan wrote...

I play with FOV 90 ever since the game came out if I remember correctly. The only downside to modding the coalesced file is that you have to redo this sometimes after an update. But I can live with that.

Also, they already said a long time ago, they would only take actions against people who modify their game to gain unfair progression, unfair advantage, or affect the experience of other players. FOV changes don't really fall into that category.

ORIGINAL POST

Has this affected cutscenes in SP for you? Not that it really matters to me since SP was so...disappointing.

[astheoceansblue]

justgimmedudedammit wrote...
Has this affected cutscenes in SP for you? Not that it really matters to me since SP was so...disappointing.

Use the application i linked to in the OP. It allows for FOV increase without affecting the cutscenes. I use it every time I play SP.

Modifié par astheoceansblue, 23 avril 2012 - 05:38 .

[Maria Caliban]

maxtofunator wrote...

How is this fair at all for console players?

It's not. Deal with it.

[Kikaimegami]

justgimmedudedammit wrote...


Has this affected cutscenes in SP for you? Not that it really matters to me since SP was so...disappointing.

I thought cutscenes had their own FOV entry? .....they should 

[JGDD]

astheoceansblue wrote...

justgimmedudedammit wrote...
Has this affected cutscenes in SP for you? Not that it really matters to me since SP was so...disappointing.

Use the application i linked to in the OP. It allows for FOV increase without affecting the cutscenes. I use it every time I play SP.

Hrmmm. Not that it's bad or anything, but using another app to adjust FOV is sort of like a band-aid fix. My SP playing days are pretty much done at this point anyway after, well, you know the story. I won't get into that here.

I'm more curious if a wider FOV would alleviate some of the Geth hunter mode issues. A wider view might make the mode less stressful on the eyes.

[JGDD]

Kikaimegami wrote...

justgimmedudedammit wrote...


Has this affected cutscenes in SP for you? Not that it really matters to me since SP was so...disappointing.

I thought cutscenes had their own FOV entry? .....they should 

Believe it is known that changing the FOV can screw up cutscenes if it is excessive. Only what I've read so take that with a grain of salt.

[astheoceansblue]

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

I'm more curious if a wider FOV would alleviate some of the Geth hunter mode issues. A wider view might make the mode less stressful on the eyes.

That depends.

If the health problems caused byHunter Mode arise from the extra effects enhancing the problems that a low FOV can cause, then sure... it could help.

If the health problems caused by Hunter mode are down to the effects themselves (the added brightness and blur, for example), then I don't see how increasing FOV is going to help.

IMO, it's probably a mix of both so it might alliviate it to a degree, but not entirely.

justgimmedudedammit wrote...

Kikaimegami wrote...

justgimmedudedammit wrote...


Has this affected cutscenes in SP for you? Not that it really matters to me since SP was so...disappointing.

I thought cutscenes had their own FOV entry? .....they should [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png[/smilie]

Believe it is known that changing the FOV can screw up cutscenes if it is excessive. Only what I've read so take that with a grain of salt.

 

Manually editing FOV messes up cutscenes. Before the widescreen fixer allowed for it, the only way around this was to bind a certain macro to a key that let you switch between your desired FVO in game and 0 FOV for cutscenes. As the widscreen fixer does all of this for you automatically and lets you edit the FOV without messing up the cutscenes, it's the best way to make SP FOV improvements.

Modifié par astheoceansblue, 23 avril 2012 - 06:00 .

[DJiensai]

I agree that it is realy important in the case of the FOV to be able to adjust it, as it realy makes you sick if you are not extra far from you monitor when playing.

But in general it is a absolutely retarded idea to not offer settings allready supported by your game engine. and if you realy think that it would be too confusing for your players, then hide the settings behind an advanced options button.

[Cyonan]

It's another thing that should have gotten included in the PC port and didn't.

Can anyone confirm that a 90-100 FOV messes up or doesn't mess up cutscenes or cause any other graphical glitches? I know there can sometimes be issues, but FOV never bothers me personally so I don't know if there is any in this case.

[astheoceansblue]

Cyonan wrote...

It's another thing that should have gotten included in the PC port and didn't.

Can anyone confirm that a 90-100 FOV messes up or doesn't mess up cutscenes or cause any other graphical glitches? I know there can sometimes be issues, but FOV never bothers me personally so I don't know if there is any in this case.

Pleasr read my response two posts up.

Modifié par astheoceansblue, 23 avril 2012 - 05:52 .