561 réponses à ce sujet

[Cobra's_back]

YNation913 wrote...

ghostbusters101 wrote...

YNation913 wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

YNation913 wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

What about Joker and EDI?

Okay, really. What about them? What do we see in 10 seconds that tells us whether they've been changed or not?
How does that change that synthesis is what the Reapers want?

Then again you seem to be okay with war criminals winning so nevermind.

Yeah show me a 10 second clip of a collector and a 10 second clip of Javik.
One's a pale imitation of life but 10 seconds isn't enough to tell the difference.

Gotta disagree with this one. The scene in synthesis looks like the culmination of EDI and Joker's romance, which means that they're able to retain what they were before. It's enough to know that they're not husks or indoctrinated because Reaper slaves don't take comfort on the shoulders of their lovers.

Sorry i see no evidence of higher intelligence in that scene. Collectors aren't husks but they are a pale imitation of life, not something i'd ever subject life to in order to ensure its survival.

I thought Collectors actually were husks though. They're not an imitation of life at all, they have no semblance of emotion, no culture, they're just tools.

EDI said their DNA was altered. They were experimented on.

Mordin and Javik said they were just husks; tools for the Reapers. People seem to think synthesis turns everyone into husks, but based on the Catalyst's description of how it would work (flawed as the nuances may be), Shepard would serve as the blueprint for life; and it's made clear that Shepard exists as an organic/synthetic hybrid with free will and all that good stuff.

He didn't make it clear what those changes were. This is the problem. Also, some players have a problem with an act that is consider immoral and criminal by our current laws. There wasn’t a real need for this option. The need was not proven.

[Anduin The Grey]

Droidsbane42 wrote...

It turns people into cyborgs against their will, does god knows what to synthetics, and it turns toasters into racoons...

Let's hope at least it solves incontinence and delhi bellies.

[Capthon]

The synthesis ending result is the backdoor for the reapers for their final goal: to be a part of every single being in the galaxy. With this they can control everything, they ARE everything (or be a part of it). When I think about: It's disgusting ...

[Meltemph]

Yes, he did say "Final evolution of life..."
But -
1. He isn't God. So who knows what will evolve beyond even his comprehension in a Billion years.
2. And this is the important part, he means Final stage. It doesn't mean that natural selection or evolution in general will not happen. Only that it will happen as a synthesis of both organic and synthetic organisms.
When people have babies, they will still be manifestations of their parent's evolution or natural selection or whatever. It's a final stage, not a final state!
Huge difference.

Huh? If you dont essentially treat him like a god, in terms of what the colors mean, then there would be no reason to trust him as a whole. As for "final stage vs final state" by all means please explain. Because with the way that sounds, you think adaptability would be possible and necessary with a synthetic new body(artificially created).

[Cypher_CS]

Meltemph wrote...

I find it really annoying that many here are just looking for every answer on a plate. The story isn't finished yet and we're all arguing about assumptions on things we may or may not have gotten right, considering it's a sci-fi genre most assumptions, mine included are mostly likely based on our own fantasies, not what the writers are working on.

Umm, people are looking for answers that the writers questions brought up, there is no "deep thinking" to understand all the implications of the endings, cause they dont tell us. You dont get "smarter" by thinking about this games ending. Any moron(quite literally) can think of good questions, the hard part is answering them. The writers are either trolling us, or didnt know how to end the series and just asked some very silly questions.

You sound like people who have read Foundation and now all the sudden think they have leveled up their intelligence... No you just leveled up your scifi book knowledge.

Actually, asking questions and thinking DOES make you smarter. The Brain is a Muscle, using it makes it stronger.

[Anduin The Grey]

Capthon wrote...

The synthesis ending result is the backdoor for the reapers for their final goal: to be a part of every single being in the galaxy. With this they can control everything, they ARE everything (or be a part of it). When I think about: It's disgusting ...

Saren thought he could get his own synthesis ending and the Reapers were content enough to tell him just enough for him to continue working for them. Once he had opened the gate to dark space, we were all going to be husks.

[Meltemph]

Cypher_CS wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

I find it really annoying that many here are just looking for every answer on a plate. The story isn't finished yet and we're all arguing about assumptions on things we may or may not have gotten right, considering it's a sci-fi genre most assumptions, mine included are mostly likely based on our own fantasies, not what the writers are working on.

Umm, people are looking for answers that the writers questions brought up, there is no "deep thinking" to understand all the implications of the endings, cause they dont tell us. You dont get "smarter" by thinking about this games ending. Any moron(quite literally) can think of good questions, the hard part is answering them. The writers are either trolling us, or didnt know how to end the series and just asked some very silly questions.

You sound like people who have read Foundation and now all the sudden think they have leveled up their intelligence... No you just leveled up your scifi book knowledge.

Actually, asking questions and thinking DOES make you smarter. The Brain is a Muscle, using it makes it stronger.

Splitting hairs much?  Thinking about what toothpaste I am going to buy makes me smarter too.

[DJBare]

YNation913 wrote...


Mordin and Javik said they were just husks; tools for the Reapers. People seem to think synthesis turns everyone into husks, but based on the Catalyst's description of how it would work (flawed as the nuances may be), Shepard would serve as the blueprint for life; and it's made clear that Shepard exists as an organic/synthetic hybrid with free will and all that good stuff.

That's the problem.

[Cobra's_back]

Anduin The Grey wrote...

Capthon wrote...

The synthesis ending result is the backdoor for the reapers for their final goal: to be a part of every single being in the galaxy. With this they can control everything, they ARE everything (or be a part of it). When I think about: It's disgusting ...

Saren thought he could get his own synthesis ending and the Reapers were content enough to tell him just enough for him to continue working for them. Once he had opened the gate to dark space, we were all going to be husks.

Very true.

[The Angry One]

Cypher_CS wrote...

Actually, asking questions and thinking DOES make you smarter. The Brain is a Muscle, using it makes it stronger.

Unfortunately this is an ending that requires you to not use your brain to appreciate it.

[Cypher_CS]

Dude, the body is NOT synthetic. It's a hybrid.
Of course adaptability would be possible. AI today can adapt, so why can't it in a futuristic sci fi world?

[Cypher_CS]

The Angry One wrote...

Cypher_CS wrote...

Actually, asking questions and thinking DOES make you smarter. The Brain is a Muscle, using it makes it stronger.

Unfortunately this is an ending that requires you to not use your brain to appreciate it.

I think this topic and countless others like it on these forums quite frankly and successfully contradict your statement 

[d-boy15]

evolution should not be force, it should happen by nature.

in game, they show us what happen when salarian try to mess with evolution
and mordin even tell that salarian should let krogan evolve on their own.

also, there are two dialog from shepard that make me not choose synthasis

"I won't let fear compromise who I am"

"I gonna win this war and I'll do it without sacrifice the soul of our species"

Modifié par d-boy15, 23 avril 2012 - 04:23 .

[Anduin The Grey]

Meltemph wrote...

Cypher_CS wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

I find it really annoying that many here are just looking for every answer on a plate. The story isn't finished yet and we're all arguing about assumptions on things we may or may not have gotten right, considering it's a sci-fi genre most assumptions, mine included are mostly likely based on our own fantasies, not what the writers are working on.

Umm, people are looking for answers that the writers questions brought up, there is no "deep thinking" to understand all the implications of the endings, cause they dont tell us. You dont get "smarter" by thinking about this games ending. Any moron(quite literally) can think of good questions, the hard part is answering them. The writers are either trolling us, or didnt know how to end the series and just asked some very silly questions.

You sound like people who have read Foundation and now all the sudden think they have leveled up their intelligence... No you just leveled up your scifi book knowledge.

Actually, asking questions and thinking DOES make you smarter. The Brain is a Muscle, using it makes it stronger.

Splitting hairs much?  Thinking about what toothpaste I am going to buy makes me smarter too.

Actually splitting hairs much has resulted in hundreds of threads and thousands of posts, hands up anyone who thought the endings were crap or were executed poorly. I can't imagine many hands staying down.

So what are we arguing about if we all have the same basic notion, as far as I'm concerned the phrase, "I called it first". It's better we stick to the facts and keep the assumptions as assumptions, interesting as some of them may be unless it's canon it's not fact.

Modifié par Anduin The Grey, 23 avril 2012 - 04:21 .

[Meltemph]

Cypher_CS wrote...

Dude, the body is NOT synthetic. It's a hybrid.
Of course adaptability would be possible. AI today can adapt, so why can't it in a futuristic sci fi world?

Yes they are synthetic by the definition.  These hybrids are not natural, they wre essentially created in a lab.  Evolution didnt create this new "framework".  Their adaptation would not be the same as it stands now.  Yes evolution woulds till ahppen because you cant stop it, but my point is, that the child argued that a final stage of evolution would be what this is... eitehr the kid is lying or the writers actaully thought this.

My point to that post was to see how you were arguing the writers idea behind the child...but you are not.  It seems like you are doing more with the ending then even the writers.

[Meltemph]

I think this topic and countless others like it on these forums quite frankly and successfully contradict your statement

Only because it dumps easy to ask questions at the end of the story. That doesnt make the ending good, it just means the writers knew some questions that always cause debate. Eugenics kinda has that "hot button" all over it typically.

So what are we arguing about if we all have the same basic notion, as far as I'm concerned the phrase, "I called it first". It's better we stick to the facts and keep the assumptions as assumptions, interesting as some of them may be unless it's canon it's not fact.

If all people talked about with the endings was facts, there would be very little to talk about.

Modifié par Meltemph, 23 avril 2012 - 04:24 .

[The JoeMan]

Everytime I start to think that I can maybe force myself to like the ending so I can enjoy this game again synthesis gets in the way and destroys my suspension of disbelieve. Everything comes tumbling down again. Moral issues aside, it just doesn't fit.

[Wolven_Soul]

It is morally repugnant.  It is the worst of the three endings.  Especially since it has repercussions beyond the current galactic civilization.  Imagine your a pre space race and this green wave rolls over you.  I can see a massive world war happening because every nation is going to be blaming every other nation for it, thinking it is some kind of attack at first. 

Even worse, a race in the midieval stage of life.  Their likely going to be thinking it is some form of witchcraft of their version of the devil.

[Anduin The Grey]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Anduin The Grey wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Genetic rape isn't morally/ethically wrong? YOU ARE FORCING A CHANGE ON EVERY LIVING THING.

Also, please tell me you are joking about it not being scientifcally  wrong. Please.

Actually my point is, as it has the whole way through not just this argument but every argument I've involved myself in is that that no discussion involving assumption of the facts is going to get us anywhere constructively.

We have no idea what synthesis actually does, it might just be an advanced form of augmentation, giving us a massive edge over any purely synthetic life that is created.

What are you actually basing genetic rape on? And, if we have indeed been raped would you justify a DLC with a flush option?

You are thinking too narrowly, rape doesn't just mean physical rape. But can you deny you are forcing this change on everyone? And it is evident, look at the freaking trees in the end sequence.

I see nothing that suggests evolution has been eliminated in any way. Evolution doesn't just work forwards it can work backwards too, what I find more atrotious is that story wise, a race with the technology to complete any feat decided that all future life should be reaped, we were little more than cattle to them and pretty much ended up on the Reapers proverbial plates as does many a sunday roast does for us.

[Cypher_CS]

Yes, I have a habit of doing that.
Joe Kucan is a fan of mine because of that and my work on his character

I'm saying you're taking the kid's words at face value.
Hell, even the Bible should NEVER be taken at face value.

****** Sapiens is a stage of Evolution, right?
****** Erectus before it?
****** Neanderthalensis?
Right, these are all stages of Evolution, right?

X-Men have ****** Superior - the Mutants (I'm guessing they don't mean the Morlocks).

That's all this dude means, he, being probably a synthetic or half synthetic himself, can't imagine a stage of evolution beyond ****** Digitalis or whatever.

[Cobra's_back]

The JoeMan wrote...

Everytime I start to think that I can maybe force myself to like the ending so I can enjoy this game again synthesis gets in the way and destroys my suspension of disbelieve. Everything comes tumbling down again. Moral issues aside, it just doesn't fit.

Correct there was no real need for it.

[Wolven_Soul]

GiarcYekrub wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

GiarcYekrub wrote...

Zolt51 wrote...

It is *very* questionable to say the least.
I personally won't choose it. I just don't feel "entitled" to make the decision on behalf of everyone else. Even though I've just spent the last 5 years saving their collective ass.

BUT I can understand that some people would at least want to try it. It is a fascinating avenue to explore, and it's a chance that simply won't come twice.
If you take the catalyst's logic seriously, then it's practically the only option too. Other endings you just consider that the synthetics problem will just have to take care of itself in the far, far future.

I feel the same with the destroy/control endings, I'm not going to kill the Geth and EDI and I'm not going to rob them of their freewill

But synthesis robs *everyone* of their free will.

No it doesn't, Your DNA has nothing to do with free will, you me both have human DNA doesn't stop us both from being individuals. You could look at it as gifting humanity to the synthetics as Shepard has taught Legion and EDI and it has been shown in the past that memories in the ME universe are stored in DNA promoting understanding and tolerance thoughout the galaxy.(but I guess that depends on the type of shepard you were)

The fact that Shepherd forces this on everyone without their consent pretty much does rob them of their free will on this issue at least.

[marshkoala]

@Cypher_CS I understand what you are saying about Shepard having to make a choice.

I think the ending was written poorly and writers and Lit Professors have explained why the ending in general is just bad.

But all anyone has are theories, since the writers have refused to defend or explain their reasons for the ending, and everyone has one.

[Cypher_CS]

Meltemph wrote...

I think this topic and countless others like it on these forums quite frankly and successfully contradict your statement

Only because it dumps easy to ask questions at the end of the story. That doesnt make the ending good, it just means the writers knew some questions that always cause debate. Eugenics kinda has that "hot button" all over it typically.

That's your opinion, and that's fine.
But I didn't question the quality of the ending, I have merely remarked upon their effect in causing these debates. In thinking.