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[mass perfection]

Wouldn't synthesis be turning everyone into reapers?

[Cobra's_back]

Anduin The Grey wrote...

ghostbusters101 wrote...

Anduin The Grey wrote...

As for the genetic rape argument, rape removes choice, there are whole lines of families who most likely owe their whole line to rape, rape is seen as a stain but we are more than just the sum of our genes. We may very well have genetic predispositions but unlike addiction or indoctrination, they do not compel us, to say that synthesis is akin to genetic rape is to claim evolution the same, doesn't matter how you got here, you are here, whether any of us owe our lines to a rapist going back thousands of years or not was not our choice, but we play the cards we are dealt with because they are the only cards we have.

It might be obscene to choose it on Shepards behalf but as players we are not forced to make any choice, none of the choices are prefect but they are the only choices that are open to us.

From Mass Effect 1 the whole Trilogy set itself up for us to make difficult decisions and then to live with the consequences, judging by the ire on the forums sinjce the endings were uncovered am guessing they made the last 3 choices of the trilogy too hard for most if not all of us to swallow.

Not really. In the end, you will use your background to make the decision. Someone who studies biology and has a strong background in evolution more than not would stay away from green. They would probably choose blue or red. They would pick between those two depending on if they could live with losing a 1,000,000 to save a trillion, or make an assumption that control means releasing the reaper from its current programming. They pick blue tell the reapers to go to dark space and do not return. This is a leap of faith but some would prefer it to losing a 1,000,000.



On a different note the concern from the biologist point of view would be the interference with the repeating of successful dominate genes. The stuff that makes us improves over time.
 
The ending is just a bit vague.

The ending is vague, far too vague for anyone to swallow. Personally I chose Synthesis on my first playthrough and for one of my characters that might still be true, the rest will probably be Destroy when I get round to completing them.

As long as it  works for you great. I picked destroy. My next play through will be control. I'm sure the ending DLC will allow all three options to look relatively good.

[WandererRTF]

Sickly green color was aptly chosen for the synthesis.

[Xellith]

Synthesis is the kinda ending that someone like Hitler would even think twice about picking. Its utterly abhorant.

Modifié par Xellith, 23 avril 2012 - 08:09 .

[Anduin The Grey]

DJBare wrote...

Anduin The Grey wrote...

AtlasMickey wrote...

So if I said I wanted to Synthesize y'all, it'd be like I was making a rape threat and trolling everybody in a really vicious and disgusting way, huh? Really?

I want to Synthesize all of you. Every last one.

Ok dokey now turn it into an ultimatum,

You've got a choice, I turn your DNA semi synthetic or I can let the Reapers reduce you to goo while you're conscious and you all die?

Or I can destroy the reapers, why did you limit the ultimatum to two choices when three are available, that's like making up the rules to suit your argument.

No, add all 3 in and my argument remains the same.

For example:

You've got 4 choices,
I turn your DNA semi synthetic,
I destroy the Reapers and we might just destroy ourselves,
I control the Reapers and you'll just have to trust me on this k!
or I can let the
Reapers reduce you to goo while you're conscious and you all die?

The op I challenged limited the choicees with argument I countered his argument wqith said same choices to show what I thought was wrong with his argumenent.

At the end of the day, you choose what you want, they ain't happy happy endings, but those are the only choices you've got. As I said earlier, the trilogy is based on hard choices, none of them easy, the fate of the galaxy is in your hands. Maybe if you choose the 4th option you can wait possibly another 37 million years for the Crucible to be upgraded enough to give more choices.

However, this is Shepard's story, he set out from the very beginning to stop the Reapers and at the end of ME3 you are given 3 ways to do it.

[DJBare]

Anduin The Grey wrote...


No, add all 3 in and my argument remains the same.

For example:

You've got 4 choices,
I turn your DNA semi synthetic,
I destroy the Reapers and we might just destroy ourselves,
I control the Reapers and you'll just have to trust me on this k!
or I can let the
Reapers reduce you to goo while you're conscious and you all die?

The op I challenged limited the choicees with argument I countered his argument wqith said same choices to show what I thought was wrong with his argumenent.

At the end of the day, you choose what you want, they ain't happy happy endings, but those are the only choices you've got. As I said earlier, the trilogy is based on hard choices, none of them easy, the fate of the galaxy is in your hands. Maybe if you choose the 4th option you can wait possibly another 37 million years for the Crucible to be upgraded enough to give more choices.

However, this is Shepard's story, he set out from the very beginning to stop the Reapers and at the end of ME3 you are given 3 ways to do it.

My personal choice is in bold, I've never been much good at playing god.

[Seival]

mass perfection wrote...

Wouldn't synthesis be turning everyone into reapers?

It turns everyone into husks... Even the plants...

[AtlasMickey]

ghostbusters101 wrote...

AtlasMickey wrote...

So if I said I wanted to Synthesize y'all, it'd be like I was making a rape threat and trolling everybody in a really vicious and disgusting way, huh? Really?

I want to Synthesize all of you. Every last one.

Cute. If you were successful at it . We all visit you in jail.

Nah. You'd thank me afterwards!

Some of you need it more than others. Like TAO. She needs to get Synthesized hard. In the face.

Modifié par AtlasMickey, 23 avril 2012 - 08:17 .

[Anduin The Grey]

DJBare wrote...

Anduin The Grey wrote...


No, add all 3 in and my argument remains the same.

For example:

You've got 4 choices,
I turn your DNA semi synthetic,
I destroy the Reapers and we might just destroy ourselves,
I control the Reapers and you'll just have to trust me on this k!
or I can let the
Reapers reduce you to goo while you're conscious and you all die?

The op I challenged limited the choicees with argument I countered his argument wqith said same choices to show what I thought was wrong with his argumenent.

At the end of the day, you choose what you want, they ain't happy happy endings, but those are the only choices you've got. As I said earlier, the trilogy is based on hard choices, none of them easy, the fate of the galaxy is in your hands. Maybe if you choose the 4th option you can wait possibly another 37 million years for the Crucible to be upgraded enough to give more choices.

However, this is Shepard's story, he set out from the very beginning to stop the Reapers and at the end of ME3 you are given 3 ways to do it.

My personal choice is in bold, I've never been much good at playing god.

I've swung much more that way myself since I've played the ending, at the time I thought great, stop the reapers and prevent the threat of possible future AI's from killing everything all the while thinking, wth is going on? Am looking for dialogue that gets me out of these 3 choices but there's a distinct lack of dialogue choices.

As for playing God, not much of a god if all you have are 3 choices, none of which nobody or at least very few players like.

[alienatedflea]

Anduin The Grey wrote...
He does mention (twice if I recall), once defintiely at your final encounter on the Citadel that he is the prtotype for a new way forward, both organic and synthetic but with neither of the others weakness.

Edit:
He does ask on Virmire, rhetorically, isn't submission better than extinction, neither statement is wrong

Organics made synthetics right?
Synthetics/technology and organics have a symbiotic relationship...right?
Wouldn't one conclude that an emergence of both worlds would be perfection? If such a thing could exist, there would be no need for evolution because technology is always adapting..right?
Sooo with that line of thinking (making it very basic so no one would be confused or misunderstood what I said), How is synthesis disgusting again?

[ArchDuck]

alienatedflea wrote...

Organics made synthetics right?
Synthetics/technology and organics have a symbiotic relationship...right?
Wouldn't one conclude that an emergence of both worlds would be perfection? If such a thing could exist, there would be no need for evolution because technology is always adapting..right?
Sooo with that line of thinking (making it very basic so no one would be confused or misunderstood what I said), How is synthesis disgusting again?

You mean beyond not actually stoping the reason that the reapers say they are doing this for, destroying the current path of evolution across the galaxy, being based off of a false idea of evolution having a pinnacle and forcing it on others with no thought to whether they want to be genetically rewritten,  right?

Modifié par ArchDuck, 23 avril 2012 - 08:38 .

[Anduin The Grey]

ArchDuck wrote...

alienatedflea wrote...

Organics made synthetics right?
Synthetics/technology and organics have a symbiotic relationship...right?
Wouldn't one conclude that an emergence of both worlds would be perfection? If such a thing could exist, there would be no need for evolution because technology is always adapting..right?
Sooo with that line of thinking (making it very basic so no one would be confused or misunderstood what I said), How is synthesis disgusting again?

You mean beyond not actually stoping the reason that the reapers say they are doing this for, destroying the current path of evolution across the galaxy, being based off of a false idea of evolution having a pinnacle and forcing it on others with no thought to whether they want to be genetically rewritten,  right?

Also, gamewise, Mordin sets out very clearly for the writers why they see evolution as a force for good, no evolution and we all end up replaced by tech, even our souls, with no barriers and hurdles to overcome we're just husks. But am of the belief that Synthesis does not kill evolution, but for all I know I could be wrong.

[alienatedflea]

ArchDuck wrote...

alienatedflea wrote...

Organics made synthetics right?
Synthetics/technology and organics have a symbiotic relationship...right?
Wouldn't one conclude that an emergence of both worlds would be perfection? If such a thing could exist, there would be no need for evolution because technology is always adapting..right?
Sooo with that line of thinking (making it very basic so no one would be confused or misunderstood what I said), How is synthesis disgusting again?

You mean beyond not actually stoping the reason that the reapers say they are doing this for, destroying the current path of evolution across the galaxy, being based off of a false idea of evolution having a pinnacle and forcing it on others with no thought to whether they want to be genetically rewritten,  right?

reapers leave dont they? the cycle is ended after choosing whatever choice you make...and with synthesis you save the geth...and you are not back in the stone age (red) and since you think that the machines would have human tendencies to lie to you, then I suppose you think anything is possible...

[alienatedflea]

Anduin The Grey wrote...

Also, gamewise, Mordin sets out very clearly for the writers why they see evolution as a force for good, no evolution and we all end up replaced by tech, even our souls, with no barriers and hurdles to overcome we're just husks. But am of the belief that Synthesis does not kill evolution, but for all I know I could be wrong.

thats because collecters were enhanced husk race...

When you see the green blast wave hit everyone on earth, did the humans not cheer?  If we were all turned to husks, the humans would have been mindless drones...but they werent!

[Mr.House]

alienatedflea wrote...

Anduin The Grey wrote...

Also, gamewise, Mordin sets out very clearly for the writers why they see evolution as a force for good, no evolution and we all end up replaced by tech, even our souls, with no barriers and hurdles to overcome we're just husks. But am of the belief that Synthesis does not kill evolution, but for all I know I could be wrong.

thats because collecters were enhanced husk race...

When you see the green blast wave hit everyone on earth, did the humans not cheer?  If we were all turned to husks, the humans would have been mindless drones...but they werent!

They did not chear in the green ending, nice try.

[ArchDuck]

alienatedflea wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...

You mean beyond not actually stoping the reason that the reapers say they are doing this for, destroying the current path of evolution across the galaxy, being based off of a false idea of evolution having a pinnacle and forcing it on others with no thought to whether they want to be genetically rewritten,  right?

reapers leave dont they? the cycle is ended after choosing whatever choice you make...and with synthesis you save the geth...and you are not back in the stone age (red) and since you think that the machines would have human tendencies to lie to you, then I suppose you think anything is possible...

It has nothing to do with lies. The catalyst logic is wrong. Evolution by definition has no pinnacle. Also if it did, you could not know what form that would be unless you also knew, with 100% certainty, the exact course of the future.

Edit: The reapers do leave, for now, but unless the synthesis ending also removes free will (husk ending) then it does not stop anyone from making another pure synthetic race in the future.

Modifié par ArchDuck, 23 avril 2012 - 08:53 .

[Cobra's_back]

alienatedflea wrote...

Anduin The Grey wrote...

Also, gamewise, Mordin sets out very clearly for the writers why they see evolution as a force for good, no evolution and we all end up replaced by tech, even our souls, with no barriers and hurdles to overcome we're just husks. But am of the belief that Synthesis does not kill evolution, but for all I know I could be wrong.

thats because collecters were enhanced husk race...

When you see the green blast wave hit everyone on earth, did the humans not cheer?  If we were all turned to husks, the humans would have been mindless drones...but they werent!

Pick green if you don't care about the natural evolutionary process. Some however do and don’t touch it. Technically it does interfere with natural evolution. It is because the kid said a new DNA framework. We don’t know what that really is internally. All we see is green eye.

[alienatedflea]

Mr.House wrote...

alienatedflea wrote...

Anduin The Grey wrote...

Also, gamewise, Mordin sets out very clearly for the writers why they see evolution as a force for good, no evolution and we all end up replaced by tech, even our souls, with no barriers and hurdles to overcome we're just husks. But am of the belief that Synthesis does not kill evolution, but for all I know I could be wrong.

thats because collecters were enhanced husk race...

When you see the green blast wave hit everyone on earth, did the humans not cheer?  If we were all turned to husks, the humans would have been mindless drones...but they werent!

They did not chear in the green ending, nice try.

My point is...the humans fighting the reapers did not act like they were instantified husks...this husk business and the green ending is pure speculation...nothing more.

[Reever]

Honestly, I thought it was a good idea at the moment. I didn´t think about "genetic rape" or anything, because I figured with this new state of being, everyone would understand. It would be something else, would be beyond our comprehension (I know it sounds reaperish already, but bare with me xD).
I also didn´t think everybody would be the same, because the ways of thinking would still be unique but at the same time connected in a way we would impossibly understand the way we are now.

This is everything speculation of course, but we really didn´t get more info. So that´s how I view this. And of course, it really is space magic and it has been badly implemented , but ah well, I just hoped the galaxy would have taken the right path...(even though I don´t think I thought much about Starbrat saying anything about the evolutionary pinnacle or whatever...).

[alienatedflea]

ghostbusters101 wrote...

Pick green if you don't care about the natural evolutionary process. Some however do and don’t touch it. Technically it does interfere with natural evolution. It is because the kid said a new DNA framework. We don’t know what that really is internally. All we see is green eye.

Thats a big load of horse s**t if I ever smelled some.  If you "care" about evolution then dont take any medical procedures....do not use any technology because even then, you are defying nature.  The human body is only suppose to live until the age of 30 tops...yet we live on average of 75 yrs plus.  WHY? Technology! when you can emerge the two then you get perfection...there is no shelf life of a synthetic while there is for an organic life...yet you claim the green ending is immoral and disgusting then you use technology everyday...I bet you wouldn't know what to do with yourself if you had no technology...

[ArchDuck]

BlueDemonX wrote...

Honestly, I thought it was a good idea at the moment. I didn´t think about "genetic rape" or anything, because I figured with this new state of being, everyone would understand. It would be something else, would be beyond our comprehension (I know it sounds reaperish already, but bare with me xD).
I also didn´t think everybody would be the same, because the ways of thinking would still be unique but at the same time connected in a way we would impossibly understand the way we are now.

This is everything speculation of course, but we really didn´t get more info. So that´s how I view this. And of course, it really is space magic and it has been badly implemented , but ah well, I just hoped the galaxy would have taken the right path...(even though I don´t think I thought much about Starbrat saying anything about the evolutionary pinnacle or whatever...).

I understand, it really does sound like something that might turn out to be highly beneficial and I possibly would choose it for myself if it was available today (and I knew what it actually meant in the long run).

But it starts to break when you think about it. I just can't see having such a big god complex that screwing with evolution and life on such grand scale would seem like a sound idea that could really be controlled or have only good consequences. Making such a choice for others is the problem. If it only gave the choice to every being who could accept it or decline it then that would be a different debate all together.

Modifié par ArchDuck, 23 avril 2012 - 09:19 .

[alienatedflea]

ArchDuck wrote...

alienatedflea wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...

You mean beyond not actually stoping the reason that the reapers say they are doing this for, destroying the current path of evolution across the galaxy, being based off of a false idea of evolution having a pinnacle and forcing it on others with no thought to whether they want to be genetically rewritten,  right?

reapers leave dont they? the cycle is ended after choosing whatever choice you make...and with synthesis you save the geth...and you are not back in the stone age (red) and since you think that the machines would have human tendencies to lie to you, then I suppose you think anything is possible...

It has nothing to do with lies. The catalyst logic is wrong. Evolution by definition has no pinnacle. Also if it did, you could not know what form that would be unless you also knew, with 100% certainty, the exact course of the future.

Edit: The reapers do leave, for now, but unless the synthesis ending also removes free will (husk ending) then it does not stop anyone from making another pure synthetic race in the future.

Evolution is adaption in the long run...yes? What does technology do everyday? ADAPT to new things! You can see this with EDI.  Evolution would not exist in the long run if you are constantly adapting...right? Or it would exist but no one would care since we are changing constantly anyways?

[alienatedflea]

synthesis just grants organics the fountain of youth...immortality sounds nice but to some its very disgusting...

[ArchDuck]

alienatedflea wrote...

ghostbusters101 wrote...

Pick green if you don't care about the natural evolutionary process. Some however do and don’t touch it. Technically it does interfere with natural evolution. It is because the kid said a new DNA framework. We don’t know what that really is internally. All we see is green eye.

Thats a big load of horse s**t if I ever smelled some.  If you "care" about evolution then dont take any medical procedures....do not use any technology because even then, you are defying nature.  The human body is only suppose to live until the age of 30 tops...yet we live on average of 75 yrs plus.  WHY? Technology! when you can emerge the two then you get perfection...there is no shelf life of a synthetic while there is for an organic life...yet you claim the green ending is immoral and disgusting then you use technology everyday...I bet you wouldn't know what to do with yourself if you had no technology...

You are mistaken. The Green ending most definitly voids the natural evolution process.

No one said anything about defying nature. Nature does not have a will to defy (unless you believe in Giai). Evolution and technology use can go hand in hand. But if you could somehow pull off what is in the Synthesis ending then you would be stopping the natural evolution process.

Individuals using technology (chemotherapy, boiling water, nanotech, iodine, stiches, etc.) isn't about defying evolution. If you can't see the difference between a species using its brains (a product of evolution) to solve problems and an outside entity utterly rewriing every creature in existence (galactic scale) then you need to do some thinking.

Modifié par ArchDuck, 23 avril 2012 - 09:34 .

[Unit-Alpha]

mass perfection wrote...

Wouldn't synthesis be turning everyone into reapers?

This is relevant: