561 réponses à ce sujet

[Taboo]

Biotic Flash Kick wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I refuse to go against evolution, the process that has kept the universe in check for billions of years. Why would I go against nature itself?

because your mission is stop the reapers and take back earth.
That is why.
That is why the destroy ending in the only real ending.

Control: Reapers still and exist and you control them... for now.
Synthesis: Reaper still live and you don't have control over them.
Destroy: Reapers are dead. Earth is saved if less populated. Your goal of the third game right is completed.

Destroy is the only ending that has ANY resemblence to what Shepard was trying to do throughout the entire trilogy? Why make a 180 RIGHT at the end?

[The Angry One]

Anduin The Grey wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Synthesis is not only incredibly stupid and anti-scientific, it's also racist, disgusting and despicable.

I'd be interested to know what in sci-fi you didn't find disgusting and despicable? Trekkie fan maybe, how's that heisenberg compensator thingy work anyway? Very well thankyou apparently

What are you going on about?
Synthetic augmentation perhaps?
There's nothing wrong with synthetic augmentation. The problem with synthesis (aside from the failures in science, biology and evolution)  is the philosphy behind it and the method.

Philosophy - Organics and synthetics can never get along because they are different, therefore the solution is to make them the same. If they are the same there will be no conflict. This is not only laughable, it's also racist.

Method - Impose this change on every being in the galaxy whether they like it or not.

[Tietj]

I'm personally repulsed at the idea of synthesis. I imagine there are quite a few other individuals in the galaxy who are.

My fear for the extended cut (which I'm generally optimistic about, however) is that it will expand on synthesis being the "best" choice, through a lot of narrative contrivance. "And every being in the galaxy was very happy that Shepard chose green..."

[Unit-Alpha]

GiarcYekrub wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

GiarcYekrub wrote...

Zolt51 wrote...

It is *very* questionable to say the least.
I personally won't choose it. I just don't feel "entitled" to make the decision on behalf of everyone else. Even though I've just spent the last 5 years saving their collective ass.

BUT I can understand that some people would at least want to try it. It is a fascinating avenue to explore, and it's a chance that simply won't come twice.
If you take the catalyst's logic seriously, then it's practically the only option too. Other endings you just consider that the synthetics problem will just have to take care of itself in the far, far future.

I feel the same with the destroy/control endings, I'm not going to kill the Geth and EDI and I'm not going to rob them of their freewill

But synthesis robs *everyone* of their free will.

No it doesn't, Your DNA has nothing to do with free will, you me both have human DNA doesn't stop us both from being individuals. You could look at it as gifting humanity to the synthetics as Shepard has taught Legion and EDI and it has been shown in the past that memories in the ME universe are stored in DNA promoting understanding and tolerance thoughout the galaxy.(but I guess that depends on the type of shepard you were)

I didn't say that; I'm saying the act of forcing the change on every living creature is robbing them of their free will.

[Norrax]

additionally synthesis in the ME3 level doesn't exist or make sense reality (i know its scifi but it bioware boasts that it tries to get as close to scientific fact as possible) it is just literary space magic!

[GiarcYekrub]

Biotic Flash Kick wrote...

GiarcYekrub wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

GiarcYekrub wrote...

Zolt51 wrote...

It is *very* questionable to say the least.
I personally won't choose it. I just don't feel "entitled" to make the decision on behalf of everyone else. Even though I've just spent the last 5 years saving their collective ass.

BUT I can understand that some people would at least want to try it. It is a fascinating avenue to explore, and it's a chance that simply won't come twice.
If you take the catalyst's logic seriously, then it's practically the only option too. Other endings you just consider that the synthetics problem will just have to take care of itself in the far, far future.

I feel the same with the destroy/control endings, I'm not going to kill the Geth and EDI and I'm not going to rob them of their freewill

But synthesis robs *everyone* of their free will.

No it doesn't, Your DNA has nothing to do with free will, you me both have human DNA doesn't stop us both from being individuals. You could look at it as gifting humanity to the synthetics as Shepard has taught Legion and EDI and it has been shown in the past that memories in the ME universe are stored in DNA promoting understanding and tolerance thoughout the galaxy.(but I guess that depends on the type of shepard you were)

And?
It doesn't complete your mission goal.

Yes it does, the reapers are stopped

[ShepnTali]

It's disgusting, and lame that Shepard would simply do this no questions asked. A used car salesman would have a field day with this shmuck.

[Unit-Alpha]

GiarcYekrub wrote...

Yes it does, the reapers are stopped

Yeah, same as if we stopped the people we fought in WWII (stupid censor) by accepting their logic. Right, that's a great idea!

Modifié par Unit-Alpha, 23 avril 2012 - 02:23 .

[wright1978]

Yeah, genetic rape

and

given the starbrat considers it as solution to his crazy view of problem of organics creating synthetics it is likely that synthesis is the lobotomisation of life into version of collectors who won't have the temerity to create anything like an AI again because they won't have the inclination to create anything.

[The Angry One]

GiarcYekrub wrote...

Yes it does, the reapers are stopped

The Reapers are still there, genius. They're only flying off because you did their job for them. They won.
Now some other galaxy is going to pay the price of Shepard's cowardice.

Modifié par The Angry One, 23 avril 2012 - 02:22 .

[zaeeds rage]

ShepnTali wrote...

It's disgusting, and lame that Shepard would simply do this no questions asked. A used car salesman would have a field day with this shmuck.

How do you think he got the mako?

[Zolt51]

GiarcYekrub wrote...
I feel the same with the destroy/control endings, I'm not going to kill the Geth and EDI and I'm not going to rob them of their freewill

Hmm. You may be reading a little bit much into it. Does it actually say at any point that you will control all synthetics? 
I only heard "You will control us", [the reapers], but it's also possible that I'm going senile.

[marshkoala]

@GiarcYekrub Nope have to disagree with you there!
Changing someone's DNA is an invasive process!
You would be changing everyone without their input or knowledge.......that sounds bad to me!

[DistantUtopia]

Zolt51 wrote...

It is *very* questionable to say the least.
I personally won't choose it. I just don't feel "entitled" to make the decision on behalf of everyone else. Even though I've just spent the last 5 years saving their collective ass.

BUT I can understand that some people would at least want to try it. It is a fascinating avenue to explore, and it's a chance that simply won't come twice.
If you take the catalyst's logic seriously, then it's practically the only option too. Other endings you just consider that the synthetics problem will just have to take care of itself in the far, far future.

Agree right here, with the bold highlighting my main reason.

However, I am of the opinion that free will still remains (if Starbrat is to be believed, it's "just" DNA changing).  Unless of course he was lying...again...

[GiarcYekrub]

The Angry One wrote...

GiarcYekrub wrote...
Yes it does, the reapers are stopped

The Reapers are still there, genius. They're only flying off because you did their job for them. They won.
Now some other galaxy is going to pay the price of Shepard's cowardice.

So you think its ethically right to commit Genocide of multiple races, when only at war with one, and that one has commited to a truce...

[Gogzilla]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I refuse to go against evolution, the process that has kept the universe in check for billions of years. Why would I go against nature itself?

Evolution is an indsicriminate brute force process.
plus
We kind of already have, even in the real world. We build our civilisation to escape the natural course of evolution.
The Strong are no longer the only ones to survive and procreate.
While we will always continue to evolve stronger traits will not be the only ones to be pased down through generations.

In Mass Effect , Human biotics are not a product of evolution
Most soldiers recieve heavy augmentations.

A species like the Drell can't survie comfortablly unless they alter physiology to deal with Kepral's Syndrome.

Heck if evolution was working as intended Joker should be dead.

With all the tech the varrious species keep stuffing into them , the constantly increasing number of biotics on top of that. they have already outpaced natural evolution.

Modifié par Gogzilla, 23 avril 2012 - 02:28 .

[nycmode75]

I still don't get why Shepard was the one they wanted to make this decision.

[Unit-Alpha]

GiarcYekrub wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

GiarcYekrub wrote...
Yes it does, the reapers are stopped

The Reapers are still there, genius. They're only flying off because you did their job for them. They won.
Now some other galaxy is going to pay the price of Shepard's cowardice.

So you think its ethically right to commit Genocide of multiple races, when only at war with one, and that one has commited to a truce...

One race and the reapers (and a few individuals). And yes, that is far superior to forcing a change on trillions of lives that were sentient from the beginning.

Modifié par Unit-Alpha, 23 avril 2012 - 02:27 .

[DJBare]

GiarcYekrub wrote...

No, its the perfect ending, where everyone lives and keeps their freewill, EDI & Joker can go on to have many Kids and everyone lives happily every after except for shep who's DNA is part of every living thing in the galaxy.

Yup, Shepard genetically rapes the entire galaxy, way to go Shepard!

[The Angry One]

GiarcYekrub wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

GiarcYekrub wrote...
Yes it does, the reapers are stopped

The Reapers are still there, genius. They're only flying off because you did their job for them. They won.
Now some other galaxy is going to pay the price of Shepard's cowardice.

So you think its ethically right to commit Genocide of multiple races, when only at war with one, and that one has commited to a truce...

The hell are you going on about? The only ones committing genocide are the ones who desire synthesis, i.e. the Reapers.

[bluewolv1970]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Synthesis is morally repugnant, makes the least amount of logistical sense, violates the themes of the series the most, and is generally utterly despicable.

agreed

[Bfler]

Synthesis is against all laws of nature and I guess most people would rather die than to become a cyborg.

Modifié par Bfler, 23 avril 2012 - 02:31 .

[EvilMind]

Synthesis is the best ending, its the next step in evolution which is a good thing. People who whine about it just dont look at the bigger picture, in the long run synthesis is a good thing

[-Area51-Silent]

Not only is it wrong, we have to assume it effects ALL ORGANICS! meaning even those who are not developed and have no idea whats going on! How it is fair to make such a massive decision for those you know and those you do not know? Also! hurling those races foward much faster than their ordinary development would take them would have untold ramifications in their own cultures causing even more chaos to ensue (and possible destruction).

That said, arguing the other side of the end, if (lets say) it only effected the developed species, then couldn't we argue that instead of sythetic vs. organic (chaos) we would then have hybrid sythetic vs. organics, where superiority and jealousy would exist as time goes on! Except now we have a much further developed culture of the hybrid organics who are both intelligent and creative (unpredictable) making it more likely that lesser races would be enslaved or simply seen as inferior.

just my thoughts :-)

P.S

Oh and the other two options simply wouldn't fit either! Control option makes NO sense because just prior to the decsions you spend the time explaining to the Illusive man WHY humanity or any race isn't ready for that power...and last I checked Shepard isn't a hypocrite.

Destroy makes no sense either (unless you destroyed the geth). You spent the time with Legion and Tali to broker peace between the geth and quarians. You are even there to oversee the geth become fully selfaware and sentient making them (argueably) living ("does this one have a soul?"). So by that logic then, destroying the Geth is genocide!

There is no moral dilema because no solution is morally correct, they all carry heavy ramifications which (in the end) will carry terrible consequences (none of which are better than any other).

The best "moral dilema's" were in both ME1 & 2 where you could either save the council and take heavy casualties, or screw the council and reduce human casualties. In ME2, you could destroy what was an abomination OR keep it to study (either keep destroy the mass grave and let those who died have peace, or make it so that you can learn from their death, so they did no die in vain).

Those had real dilemas that made sense because every decsion had both good and bad consequences...these have no real good conseqences, just mostly bad ones (oh MAYBE to save earth...but ya.)

Modifié par -Area51-Silent, 23 avril 2012 - 02:31 .