561 réponses à ce sujet

[Gogzilla]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Gogzilla wrote...

Truth be told i picked synthesis
because
If your going to blow up the relays , why not go one better and change their .. biology/architecture ? ...
Next to that kind of destruction , the morality behind galactic rape seemed moot.

Except we have statements from Bioware refuting the idea that destroying the relays kills everyone.

I did'nt know that at the time, did you know when you were playing ?
I only had what the kid told me to go on.

Plus you just don't remove the relays and move on with FTL. Peope are going ot die in the short term due to supply shortages , lack of medicine and people in ships arround the galaxy at the time of the explosion.
There could be a flotila around one Mass relay that just got owned in the blast, maybe more. How many replays are even out there ?
What if there was a pre-space civ that mistook the relay explotions for an attack and that started a nuclear war. that would decimate their planet.
The unforseen consequnces are almost limitless.

On the galactic scale, there are loads of stuff that can happen.

How many people would just die if you disabled all  aeroplanes for even an hour ?

Modifié par Gogzilla, 23 avril 2012 - 02:49 .

[-Area51-Silent]

Anduin The Grey wrote...

I thought the yahg were great! They're already dangerous but in the Shadowbroker Dossiers it hints that their IQ drops considerbly once they become enraged. Besides, would make a great new antagonist to threaten the galaxy, who wants a boring safe galaxy to defend?!

In synthesis, we're going to fix that problem...

[Anduin The Grey]

The Angry One wrote...

Cpt. Howdy wrote...

nycmode75 wrote...

I still don't get why Shepard was the one they wanted to make this decision.

They didn't. Shepard was just the first unlucky fool to reach the chamber of madness and thus the only one who could make this decision. Why the catalyst regards this decision as necesarry is still unclear though...

The Catalyst is a psychopath who's set up arbitrary rules for it's "game".
Someone finally came that far, so the next stage of the "game" begins.

Anduin The Grey wrote...

I thought the yahg were great!
They're already dangerous but in the Shadowbroker Dossiers it hints that
their IQ drops considerbly once they become enraged. Besides, would
make a great new antagonist to threaten the galaxy, who wants a boring
safe galaxy to defend?!

What are they going to do? Send probes that reach us in 200 years with a picture of a Yahg giving the middle finger?

Not unless what's been posted here on the fourms by staff about don't discount FTL, also, if ME4 is based 200 years in the future where the Asari have been working out and slowly building their own Mass Relays it's another moot point.

[Unit-Alpha]

Gogzilla wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Gogzilla wrote...

Truth be told i picked synthesis
because
If your going to blow up the relays , why not go one better and change their .. biology/architecture ? ...
Next to that kind of destruction , the morality behind galactic rape seemed moot.

Except we have statements from Bioware refuting the idea that destroying the relays kills everyone.

I did'nt know that at the time, did you know when you were playing ?
I only had what the kid told me to go on.

Plus you just don't remove the relays and move on with FTL. Peope are going ot die in the short term due to supply shortages , lack of medicine and people in ships arround the galaxy at the time of the explosion.
There could be a flotial arround one Mass relay that just got owned in the blast.
What if there was a pre-space civ that mistook the relay explotions for an attack and that started a nuclear war. that would decimate their planet.
The unforseen consequnces are almost limitless.

On the galactic scale, there are loads of stuff that can happen.

How many people would just die if you disabled all  aeroplanes for even an hour ?

I'm not saying the way they handled it was acceptable, I'm just stating that's what Bioware has come out and said.

[matthewmi]

Anduin The Grey wrote...

DJBare wrote...

-Area51-Silent wrote...

in that case then the sythesis ending is making decisions for those we know and do not, meaning the rammifications are much larger in scale than we can understand. That said, the sheer destruction of the less evolved races due to this new "power" could be untold. Pushing any undeveloped society faster than it should with tools it should not have is a terrible idea.

(think about if people during the crusades had the knowledge suddenly to build nukes)

Yeah, lets "assume" for the moment that individuality is maintained, I hope everyone is ready for the Yahg, highly aggressive, but most importantly HIGHLY intelligent.

I thought the yahg were great! They're already dangerous but in the Shadowbroker Dossiers it hints that their IQ drops considerbly once they become enraged. Besides, would make a great new antagonist to threaten the galaxy, who wants a boring safe galaxy to defend?!

If you pick synthesis you obviously want a boring galaxy to defend. 
Otherwise how does synthesis solve any problems unless there is no
chance of conflict, or some free choice is removed.  If I had free
choice after synthesis I could go and create a new synthetic race and
program it to kill everyone...

Modifié par matthewmi, 23 avril 2012 - 02:52 .

[Anduin The Grey]

-Area51-Silent wrote...

Anduin The Grey wrote...

I thought the yahg were great! They're already dangerous but in the Shadowbroker Dossiers it hints that their IQ drops considerbly once they become enraged. Besides, would make a great new antagonist to threaten the galaxy, who wants a boring safe galaxy to defend?!

In synthesis, we're going to fix that problem...

Like I said, wouldn't want to buy a game where everything was safe and boring! Bring em on

[Anduin The Grey]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Gogzilla wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Gogzilla wrote...

Truth be told i picked synthesis
because
If your going to blow up the relays , why not go one better and change their .. biology/architecture ? ...
Next to that kind of destruction , the morality behind galactic rape seemed moot.

Except we have statements from Bioware refuting the idea that destroying the relays kills everyone.

I did'nt know that at the time, did you know when you were playing ?
I only had what the kid told me to go on.

Plus you just don't remove the relays and move on with FTL. Peope are going ot die in the short term due to supply shortages , lack of medicine and people in ships arround the galaxy at the time of the explosion.
There could be a flotial arround one Mass relay that just got owned in the blast.
What if there was a pre-space civ that mistook the relay explotions for an attack and that started a nuclear war. that would decimate their planet.
The unforseen consequnces are almost limitless.

On the galactic scale, there are loads of stuff that can happen.

How many people would just die if you disabled all  aeroplanes for even an hour ?

I'm not saying the way they handled it was acceptable, I'm just stating that's what Bioware has come out and said.

If Quarians can live on Turian paste why not and no-one has said to my knowledge that there wouldn't be deaths, just that not everyone would die

[mpgeist]

Actually I like the idea of synthesis, as long as each being gets to decide for themselves if they want to do it. The way this game presents it and forces it on everything is absolutely disgusting.

[Anduin The Grey]

matthewmi wrote...

Anduin The Grey wrote...

DJBare wrote...

-Area51-Silent wrote...

in that case then the sythesis ending is making decisions for those we know and do not, meaning the rammifications are much larger in scale than we can understand. That said, the sheer destruction of the less evolved races due to this new "power" could be untold. Pushing any undeveloped society faster than it should with tools it should not have is a terrible idea.

(think about if people during the crusades had the knowledge suddenly to build nukes)

Yeah, lets "assume" for the moment that individuality is maintained, I hope everyone is ready for the Yahg, highly aggressive, but most importantly HIGHLY intelligent.

I thought the yahg were great! They're already dangerous but in the Shadowbroker Dossiers it hints that their IQ drops considerbly once they become enraged. Besides, would make a great new antagonist to threaten the galaxy, who wants a boring safe galaxy to defend?!

If you pick synthesis you obviously want a boring galaxy to defend. 
Otherwise how does synthesis solve any problems unless there is no
chance of conflict, or some free choice is removed.  If I had free
choice after synthesis I could go and create a new synthetic race and
program it to kill everyone...

Or come up with a bomb that could kill everyone, wait, we already did that

[chris fenton]

It's insanity. How they thought this was a good idea..

[Nerevar-as]

Talogrungi wrote...

The concept is idiotic; galactic peace by unifying organic/synthetic life .. why would it?

Krogans are still gonna hate Salarians, regardless of a shiny green texture on both of their skin.

The idea is not galactic peace, is making organic and synthetics the same class of living being so they won´t fight because they are different. However, when new AIs are created, they will be only synthetic and thus different from the merged and the galaxy goes back to where it was. With the Reapers still around to go back to plan A. So Destroy for me, I´m taking no chances with them.

And I don´t want to think about the psychological impact the merging had, especially in primitive cultures.

[The Angry One]

-Area51-Silent wrote...

Anduin The Grey wrote...

I thought the yahg were great! They're already dangerous but in the Shadowbroker Dossiers it hints that their IQ drops considerbly once they become enraged. Besides, would make a great new antagonist to threaten the galaxy, who wants a boring safe galaxy to defend?!

In synthesis, we're going to fix that problem...

Synthesis fixes nothing. Apparently Mac Walters forgot that civil wars are a real thing.

[Anduin The Grey]

mpgeist wrote...

Actually I like the idea of synthesis, as long as each being gets to decide for themselves if they want to do it. The way this game presents it and forces it on everything is absolutely disgusting.

The point is no-one has a clue what Bioware are going to pull, they could do one of a hundred things, they could force feed us the old endings then with the next DLC say we stuck in the Geth Collective the entire time and that the Reaper code had infected us.

I don't mind knocking a story that's crap, I'd prefer to knock it once I've read more than chapter one though

[DarxydeBluus]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Like you said, this is essentially genetic rape, so yes, it is.

This, exactly this, and it disturbs me that many people don't understand that you are violating every sentient being in the galaxy and it disturbs me more that this might be considered the "best" ending.

[DJBare]

Sorry to sound gross, but if I go to a sperm donation clinic and secretly place my seed in one of the test tubes, it's conception without consent, that is synthesis, conception without consent.

[Unit-Alpha]

Anduin The Grey wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Gogzilla wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Gogzilla wrote...

Truth be told i picked synthesis
because
If your going to blow up the relays , why not go one better and change their .. biology/architecture ? ...
Next to that kind of destruction , the morality behind galactic rape seemed moot.

Except we have statements from Bioware refuting the idea that destroying the relays kills everyone.

I did'nt know that at the time, did you know when you were playing ?
I only had what the kid told me to go on.

Plus you just don't remove the relays and move on with FTL. Peope are going ot die in the short term due to supply shortages , lack of medicine and people in ships arround the galaxy at the time of the explosion.
There could be a flotial arround one Mass relay that just got owned in the blast.
What if there was a pre-space civ that mistook the relay explotions for an attack and that started a nuclear war. that would decimate their planet.
The unforseen consequnces are almost limitless.

On the galactic scale, there are loads of stuff that can happen.

How many people would just die if you disabled all  aeroplanes for even an hour ?

I'm not saying the way they handled it was acceptable, I'm just stating that's what Bioware has come out and said.

If Quarians can live on Turian paste why not and no-one has said to my knowledge that there wouldn't be deaths, just that not everyone would die

I never said that no one would die. I only said that the act of destroying the relays doesn't kill everyone in the system.

[Gyroscopic_Trout]

The synthesis ending wouldn't just make a boring galaxy, it would end civilization.  The Catalyst calls it the 'final evolution' of organic life.  So not only is there no war, and everyone's homogenized into one big collective, but there's no real impetus to build or create anything new.  It's like Mordin says in ME2;

"Can't carry load, so invent wheel.  Can't catch food, invent spear.  Limitations.  No limitations, no advancement, no advancement, culture stagnates."

So really, worst case scenario, the synthesis ending results in a galaxy full of dull eyed drooling cyborgs sitting around all day eating nutrient paste and calculating pi.  It's every Borg drone's dream of a utopian society.

[Anduin The Grey]

Gyroscopic_Trout wrote...

The synthesis ending wouldn't just make a boring galaxy, it would end civilization.  The Catalyst calls it the 'final evolution' of organic life.  So not only is there no war, and everyone's homogenized into one big collective, but there's no real impetus to build or create anything new.  It's like Mordin says in ME2;

"Can't carry load, so invent wheel.  Can't catch food, invent spear.  Limitations.  No limitations, no advancement, no advancement, culture stagnates."

So really, worst case scenario, the synthesis ending results in a galaxy full of dull eyed drooling cyborgs sitting around all day eating nutrient paste and calculating pi.  It's every Borg drone's dream of a utopian society.

Except we have no idea Synthesis even works that way.

[GiarcYekrub]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Tietj wrote...

I'm personally repulsed at the idea of synthesis. I imagine there are quite a few other individuals in the galaxy who are.

My fear for the extended cut (which I'm generally optimistic about, however) is that it will expand on synthesis being the "best" choice, through a lot of narrative contrivance. "And every being in the galaxy was very happy that Shepard chose green..."

Michael Gamble said that they are going to fix the EMS issue because they seem to have realized that people do NOT believe Synthesis is the best ending. People like Destroy and it shows.

Genocide(Destroy) is never justified I really hope people do not like destroy

[The Angry One]

DarxydeBluus wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Like you said, this is essentially genetic rape, so yes, it is.

This, exactly this, and it disturbs me that many people don't understand that you are violating every sentient being in the galaxy and it disturbs me more that this might be considered the "best" ending.

In terms of consent, synthesis reminds me greatly of the Helios/JC Denton ending in Deus Ex Invisible War.
Now I've never played any Deux Ex game, but from what I've watched that game at least deals with the fact that, you know, you're doing this without anybody's consent. You're forcing a new way of life on them and they're not going to like it.
The question becomes is improved quality of life and this new vision worth sacrificing free will?

Not only does Mass Effect 3's ending copy Deus Ex, it actually manages to do it far worse than the Deus Ex which is evidentally labelled by everybody as the bad one.

[Unit-Alpha]

Anduin The Grey wrote...

Gyroscopic_Trout wrote...

The synthesis ending wouldn't just make a boring galaxy, it would end civilization.  The Catalyst calls it the 'final evolution' of organic life.  So not only is there no war, and everyone's homogenized into one big collective, but there's no real impetus to build or create anything new.  It's like Mordin says in ME2;

"Can't carry load, so invent wheel.  Can't catch food, invent spear.  Limitations.  No limitations, no advancement, no advancement, culture stagnates."

So really, worst case scenario, the synthesis ending results in a galaxy full of dull eyed drooling cyborgs sitting around all day eating nutrient paste and calculating pi.  It's every Borg drone's dream of a utopian society.

Except we have no idea Synthesis even works that way.

The problem is that evolution is based on the idea that if you stagnate, you die. A "final evolution" kinda instills a sense of stagnation.

[Anduin The Grey]

GiarcYekrub wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Tietj wrote...

I'm personally repulsed at the idea of synthesis. I imagine there are quite a few other individuals in the galaxy who are.

My fear for the extended cut (which I'm generally optimistic about, however) is that it will expand on synthesis being the "best" choice, through a lot of narrative contrivance. "And every being in the galaxy was very happy that Shepard chose green..."

Michael Gamble said that they are going to fix the EMS issue because they seem to have realized that people do NOT believe Synthesis is the best ending. People like Destroy and it shows.

Genocide(Destroy) is never justified I really hope people do not like destroy

After seeing how the Reapers have been harvesting the genetic destinies for millions of years I say in Destroy they have it coming :happy:

[Anduin The Grey]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Anduin The Grey wrote...

Gyroscopic_Trout wrote...

The synthesis ending wouldn't just make a boring galaxy, it would end civilization.  The Catalyst calls it the 'final evolution' of organic life.  So not only is there no war, and everyone's homogenized into one big collective, but there's no real impetus to build or create anything new.  It's like Mordin says in ME2;

"Can't carry load, so invent wheel.  Can't catch food, invent spear.  Limitations.  No limitations, no advancement, no advancement, culture stagnates."

So really, worst case scenario, the synthesis ending results in a galaxy full of dull eyed drooling cyborgs sitting around all day eating nutrient paste and calculating pi.  It's every Borg drone's dream of a utopian society.

Except we have no idea Synthesis even works that way.

The problem is that evolution is based on the idea that if you stagnate, you die. A "final evolution" kinda instills a sense of stagnation.

I had no idea everything stopped evolving, where or who was that said?

[M Hedonist]

GiarcYekrub wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Tietj wrote...

I'm personally repulsed at the idea of synthesis. I imagine there are quite a few other individuals in the galaxy who are.

My fear for the extended cut (which I'm generally optimistic about, however) is that it will expand on synthesis being the "best" choice, through a lot of narrative contrivance. "And every being in the galaxy was very happy that Shepard chose green..."

Michael Gamble said that they are going to fix the EMS issue because they seem to have realized that people do NOT believe Synthesis is the best ending. People like Destroy and it shows.

Genocide(Destroy) is never justified I really hope people do not like destroy

They'd just have to invent some reason why it doesn't destroy EDI and Geth and it's perfect. And I suspect that's what they're gonna do, just to give us a perfect happy ending to make as many people happy as possible. Maybe make some requirement, like whether or not you solved the Quarian/Geth conflict etc.

Modifié par Sauruz, 23 avril 2012 - 03:03 .

[Ieldra]

GiarcYekrub wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Tietj wrote...

I'm personally repulsed at the idea of synthesis. I imagine there are quite a few other individuals in the galaxy who are.

My fear for the extended cut (which I'm generally optimistic about, however) is that it will expand on synthesis being the "best" choice, through a lot of narrative contrivance. "And every being in the galaxy was very happy that Shepard chose green..."

Michael Gamble said that they are going to fix the EMS issue because they seem to have realized that people do NOT believe Synthesis is the best ending. People like Destroy and it shows.

Genocide(Destroy) is never justified I really hope people do not like destroy

Unfortunately, they do. Too many, in fact.

The number of threads like this is getting really annoying. See my take on the Synthesis here.