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[Unit-Alpha]

GiarcYekrub wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Tietj wrote...

I'm personally repulsed at the idea of synthesis. I imagine there are quite a few other individuals in the galaxy who are.

My fear for the extended cut (which I'm generally optimistic about, however) is that it will expand on synthesis being the "best" choice, through a lot of narrative contrivance. "And every being in the galaxy was very happy that Shepard chose green..."

Michael Gamble said that they are going to fix the EMS issue because they seem to have realized that people do NOT believe Synthesis is the best ending. People like Destroy and it shows.

Genocide(Destroy) is never justified I really hope people do not like destroy

I don't like any of them, but destroy is what we set out to do, and destroy is the only logical way to handle it. And regardless of whether they change the EMS issue, I will always pick destroy.

[The Angry One]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Unfortunately, they do. Too many, in fact.

The number of threads like this is getting really annoying. See my take on the Synthesis here.

I detest all 3 options. But what's the alternative? Synthesis? Endorse racism and force everybody to become a new paradigm whether they like it or not?
Control? Gamble everything on Shepard being able to control the Reapers for the rest of time despite the notable handicap of being dead?

Destroy is the best option, but that's only because it's garbage instead of pure crap.

Modifié par The Angry One, 23 avril 2012 - 03:04 .

[Cpt. Howdy]

GiarcYekrub wrote...

Genocide(Destroy) is never justified I really hope people do not like destroy

But playing god and messing with every living being's DNA (Snythesis) or just delaying the genocide (Controll) is justified?

[Darth Asriel]

Synthesis is the genetic rape of ALL life in the galaxy. It's disgusting. And it's stupid. Starchild calls it the alex of evolution. That's not possible. Evolution is an ongoing process. Species adapt or they die.

Destroy is the only real ending. It was always the goal. Why waver at the finish line? It sucks about EDI and the Geth, but trillions of lives are at stake. And what about justice for all those who died at the Reaper's hands in the countless cycles before? The only safe course of action is to destroy the reapers.

[DJBare]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Unfortunately, they do. Too many, in fact.

The number of threads like this is getting really annoying. See my take on the Synthesis here.

Hang on a moment, are you actually supporting galactic rape?, because seriously that's what synthesis is, you are giving all the species of the galaxy your genes without their consent.

[GiarcYekrub]

Anduin The Grey wrote...

GiarcYekrub wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Tietj wrote...

I'm personally repulsed at the idea of synthesis. I imagine there are quite a few other individuals in the galaxy who are.

My fear for the extended cut (which I'm generally optimistic about, however) is that it will expand on synthesis being the "best" choice, through a lot of narrative contrivance. "And every being in the galaxy was very happy that Shepard chose green..."

Michael Gamble said that they are going to fix the EMS issue because they seem to have realized that people do NOT believe Synthesis is the best ending. People like Destroy and it shows.

Genocide(Destroy) is never justified I really hope people do not like destroy

After seeing how the Reapers have been harvesting the genetic destinies for millions of years I say in Destroy they have it coming :happy:

How do you know their isn't a reaper homeworld full of anti harvesting protesters that your about to wipe out along with the Geth. I mean you only speak to 3 Reapers and something that claims to of created them.

[The Angry One]

Cpt. Howdy wrote...

GiarcYekrub wrote...

Genocide(Destroy) is never justified I really hope people do not like destroy

But playing god and messing with every living being's DNA (Snythesis) or just delaying the genocide (Controll) is justified?

People love to pretend synthesis is some kind of harmless improvement, choosing to ignore the base immorality of it.

In their minds synthesis is a wonderful happy ending where everybody becomes a super cyborg with perfect health that doesn't need to eat or sleep and can live forever.
Meanwhile back in reality, Joker doesn't even get his brittle bones fixed. Super cyborg huh?

[jstme]

Synthesis that we are shown in ME3 is insanely disgusting. It affects every living creature in the galaxy. Nature is being murdered.
As for the general concept of transhumanity - i find it stupid but sadly inevitable. Not disgusting. It is a path to complete artificial creatures though - not synthesis. And it will not influence life in general. It will be just death of ****** Sapiens.
If you will give it a real thought beyond superficial "we will jump higher run faster be ,like, super smart and have no illnesses and will not die" - eventually there will be no reason to keep any biological part, all will be replaced by more efficient and more durable technology. There will be no reason to replace certain organs - stomach, heart, guts ,kidneys and ctr are not needed in a artificial body. There will be no reason for kids since the instinct will be gone with the organic brain and in any case one will be immortal and can upgrade/change everything ,in some kind of "egocentric evolution".
There will be no reason to keep the same shape nor size.
Face it - result of trans-human approach will be super-intelligent "superman" AI with no resemblence to us whatsorever - not physical nor moral nor intellectual. And Humanity will be dead.

[Minimooo]

Gyroscopic_Trout wrote...

The synthesis ending wouldn't just make a boring galaxy, it would end civilization.  The Catalyst calls it the 'final evolution' of organic life.  So not only is there no war, and everyone's homogenized into one big collective, but there's no real impetus to build or create anything new.  It's like Mordin says in ME2;

"Can't carry load, so invent wheel.  Can't catch food, invent spear.  Limitations.  No limitations, no advancement, no advancement, culture stagnates."

So really, worst case scenario, the synthesis ending results in a galaxy full of dull eyed drooling cyborgs sitting around all day eating nutrient paste and calculating pi.  It's every Borg drone's dream of a utopian society.

I hadn't thought about this, but you're right.

I thought synthesis was by far the worst ending morally, but this point of view takes it one step further - Evolution isn't finite, so by 'advancing' to this non existant stage of life, you could potentially be fatally wounding organic life - naturally, evolution is survival of the fittest; the strong survive whilst the weak die. But if everyone is on the same level, then in theory, if some big ol' virus comes bumbling along, it could wipe out all organic life, because if we take what The Catalyst says literally, evolution will be halted - which is what fundamentally keeps species alive.

[Unit-Alpha]

GiarcYekrub wrote...

How do you know their isn't a reaper homeworld full of anti harvesting protesters that your about to wipe out along with the Geth. I mean you only speak to 3 Reapers and something that claims to of created them.

THE HUMANITY!

Sorry, but the reapers are the kind of species that goes out shopping for fruit every Wednesday. They kill organic civiliaztions, that's what they were created to do.

Modifié par Unit-Alpha, 23 avril 2012 - 03:07 .

[Ieldra]

Darth Asriel wrote...
Destroy is the only real ending. It was always the goal. Why waver at the finish line? It sucks about EDI and the Geth, but trillions of lives are at stake. And what about justice for all those who died at the Reaper's hands in the countless cycles before? The only safe course of action is to destroy the reapers.

Destroy was never the goal of my Shepard. I always wanted to preserve something of the Reapers if it was possible without succumbing to their indoctrination. If you remove the harvesting of advanced species, the Reapers are interesting. Why would I want to destroy them except for a misplaced notion of vengeance? They were under the control of the Catalyst, after all.

I find Control and Synthesis both acceptable choices. Destroy? Never.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 avril 2012 - 03:09 .

[Anduin The Grey]

GiarcYekrub wrote...

Anduin The Grey wrote...

GiarcYekrub wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Tietj wrote...

I'm personally repulsed at the idea of synthesis. I imagine there are quite a few other individuals in the galaxy who are.

My fear for the extended cut (which I'm generally optimistic about, however) is that it will expand on synthesis being the "best" choice, through a lot of narrative contrivance. "And every being in the galaxy was very happy that Shepard chose green..."

Michael Gamble said that they are going to fix the EMS issue because they seem to have realized that people do NOT believe Synthesis is the best ending. People like Destroy and it shows.

Genocide(Destroy) is never justified I really hope people do not like destroy

After seeing how the Reapers have been harvesting the genetic destinies for millions of years I say in Destroy they have it coming :happy:

How do you know their isn't a reaper homeworld full of anti harvesting protesters that your about to wipe out along with the Geth. I mean you only speak to 3 Reapers and something that claims to of created them.

You make a very good point, I wanna know where all those <insert species here> reapers are, are they all living inside that massive Jovian giant that noone seems to be able to make contact with, or are they all enslaved by the Catalyst to control the Reapers?

[Swordfishtrombone]

Above all, the problem with the synthesis ending is that it is not PLAUSIBLE. It stretches the requirements for suspension of disbelief far, far beyond breaking point; there's no conceivable way in which some beam of energy could somehow find all organics, and all synthetics, and somehow transform them into half-organic-synthetics.

That is silly. That is fantasy. That is Alice in Wonderland.

Let's say the beam encounters your average space hamster. How does it transform the hamster? Where do the synthetic parts for the half-synthetic-hamster-to-be come from? Do they just materialize out of thin air? Through what mechanism?

How does the beam differentiate between, say, an AI and a VI - does it consider both of them synthetics, and thus transform them into half organic? Where does the organic matter come from to make them half organic?

In fact, how does the beam identify or differentiate AT ALL? Is the energy beam conscious? How? How can you have consciousness without a brain like structure to produce it?

The questions that demonstrate the absurdity of the synthesis option just pile up, if you have any knowledge of biology and technology, and basic physics - if you understand that for something to happen, there must exist a mechanism through which it takes place.

It is aggravatingly far into fantasy, and thus breaks the rules of the genre of the rest of the game.

[The Angry One]

GiarcYekrub wrote...

How do you know their isn't a reaper homeworld full of anti harvesting protesters that your about to wipe out along with the Geth. I mean you only speak to 3 Reapers and something that claims to of created them.

So I suppose those other thousands of Reapers that are going around stomping on buildings, shooting civilians for fun, nuking cities and blaring foghorns at passers by are just misunderstood right?

[Anduin The Grey]

Actually what I found disgusting was the all round bangathon theme in ME3, why isn't there a Geth Romance option, Shepard seems to bang everything else

[The Angry One]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Destroy was never the goal of my Shepard. I always wanted to preserve something of the Reapers if it was possible without succumbing to their indoctrination. If you remove the harvesting of advanced species, the Reapers are interesting. Why would I want to destroy them except for a misplaced notion of vengeance? They were under the control of the Catalyst, after all.

By your logic, the ****s would never have been put on trial in Nuremberg.
After all, it's just vengeance right?

I mean, Sovereign and Harbinger were totally reluctant in their roles weren't they?

[M Hedonist]

The Angry One wrote...

GiarcYekrub wrote...

How do you know their isn't a reaper homeworld full of anti harvesting protesters that your about to wipe out along with the Geth. I mean you only speak to 3 Reapers and something that claims to of created them.

So I suppose those other thousands of Reapers that are going around stomping on buildings, shooting civilians for fun, nuking cities and blaring foghorns at passers by are just misunderstood right?

They also tried to poison Tuchanka's atmosphere.
Truly, they are benevolent and misunderstood monsters.

[Gill Kaiser]

I chose the transhumanist endings in all three Deus Ex games, but in those games that was the central theme, and only in Invisible War was it forced on anyone.

In Deus Ex, merging with Helios to produce a benevolent dictator was justifiable because the world was already a dystopia, controlled by the Illuminati, and the only other alternative was a dark age. What's more, it was JC Denton's choice to merge.

Mass Effect 3 not only forces a similar merge on every living being in the decidedly non-dystopian galaxy without their consent, it does so AS WELL AS condemning the galaxy to a dark age!

Utterly insane.

[Anduin The Grey]

The Angry One wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Destroy was never the goal of my Shepard. I always wanted to preserve something of the Reapers if it was possible without succumbing to their indoctrination. If you remove the harvesting of advanced species, the Reapers are interesting. Why would I want to destroy them except for a misplaced notion of vengeance? They were under the control of the Catalyst, after all.

By your logic, the ****s would never have been put on trial in Nuremberg.
After all, it's just vengeance right?

I mean, Sovereign and Harbinger were totally reluctant in their roles weren't they?

Am certainly in agreemnet there, they forced their will on every technologically advanced species for millions of years because they were strong enough to, when they lost, they pay the price and suffer the ignoble end of tyrants.

Modifié par Anduin The Grey, 23 avril 2012 - 03:13 .

[Ieldra]

Unit-Alpha wrote...
Sorry, but the reapers are the kind of species that goes out shopping for fruit every Wednesday. They kill organic civiliaztions, that's what they were created to do.

Not, they're created for preserving something of the Reaperized species, possibly their collective minds (each of us is a nation). In any other respect, they're just the Catalyst's tools.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 avril 2012 - 03:13 .

[Anduin The Grey]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...
Sorry, but the reapers are the kind of species that goes out shopping for fruit every Wednesday. They kill organic civiliaztions, that's what they were created to do.

Not, they're created for preserving something of the Reaperized species, possibly their collective minds (each of us is a nation). In any other respect, they're just the Catalyst's tools.

At this point we don't even know if the Reapers and the Catalyst were in some million year power struggle.

[mpgeist]

I'd rather give the Geth an honorable death than betray all their growth that had happened on Rannoch.

[DJBare]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...
Sorry, but the reapers are the kind of species that goes out shopping for fruit every Wednesday. They kill organic civiliaztions, that's what they were created to do.

Not, they're created for preserving something of the Reaperized species, possibly their collective minds (each of us is a nation). In any other respect, they're just the Catalyst's tools.

Will you please answer, how do you reconsile giving the entire galactic community your genes without their consent?

[signfang]

It contradicts the very fundamental theme of Mass Effect series more than any other endings : Importance of diversity.

The heart, and true power of diversity is accepting the difference, not merging the difference into something vaguely between them. Do I need to be bisexual to understand a woman? No. ****ing. Way.

[Ieldra]

The Angry One wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Destroy was never the goal of my Shepard. I always wanted to preserve something of the Reapers if it was possible without succumbing to their indoctrination. If you remove the harvesting of advanced species, the Reapers are interesting. Why would I want to destroy them except for a misplaced notion of vengeance? They were under the control of the Catalyst, after all.

By your logic, the ****s would never have been put on trial in Nuremberg.
After all, it's just vengeance right?

I mean, Sovereign and Harbinger were totally reluctant in their roles weren't they?

The Reapers are not human and can't be judged by human notions of good or evil.