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Is Synthesis is disgusting ?


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#126
Anduin The Grey

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DJBare wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...
Sorry, but the reapers are the kind of species that goes out shopping for fruit every Wednesday. They kill organic civiliaztions, that's what they were created to do.

Not, they're created for preserving something of the Reaperized species, possibly their collective minds (each of us is a nation). In any other respect, they're just the Catalyst's tools.


Will you please answer, how do you reconsile giving the entire galactic community your genes without their consent?


Are you trying to digress into a pro life/pro abortion thread?

#127
The Angry One

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Ieldra2 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Destroy was never the goal of my Shepard. I always wanted to preserve something of the Reapers if it was possible without succumbing to their indoctrination. If you remove the harvesting of advanced species, the Reapers are interesting. Why would I want to destroy them except for a misplaced notion of vengeance? They were under the control of the Catalyst, after all.


By your logic, the ****s would never have been put on trial in Nuremberg.
After all, it's just vengeance right?

I mean, Sovereign and Harbinger were totally reluctant in their roles weren't they?

The Reapers are not human and can't be judged by human notions of good or evil.


What garbage. They can be judged by the standards of the entire galaxy. The Reapers revel in destruction and murder. They are evil, and they are a threat.

#128
Ieldra

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DJBare wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...
Sorry, but the reapers are the kind of species that goes out shopping for fruit every Wednesday. They kill organic civiliaztions, that's what they were created to do.

Not, they're created for preserving something of the Reaperized species, possibly their collective minds (each of us is a nation). In any other respect, they're just the Catalyst's tools.


Will you please answer, how do you reconsile giving the entire galactic community your genes without their consent?

First, I don't give everyone Shepard's genes, that's just absurd. Also I don't subscribe to the notion of a genetic rewrite in the first place because "synthetics with DNA" is an oxymoron. Apart from that, yes, it *is* a forced change on the physical level, and yes, it is morally problematic, and yes, I can justify it given that nobody appears to lose their identity. More about than in this thread.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 avril 2012 - 03:20 .


#129
DJBare

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Anduin The Grey wrote...
Are you trying to digress into a pro life/pro abortion thread?

No, I'm trying to work out why anyone would think that passing their gene pool onto the rest of the galactic community without their consent is a good thing.

#130
Gyroscopic_Trout

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Ieldra2 wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...
Sorry, but the reapers are the kind of species that goes out shopping for fruit every Wednesday. They kill organic civiliaztions, that's what they were created to do.

Not, they're created for preserving something of the Reaperized species, possibly their collective minds (each of us is a nation). In any other respect, they're just the Catalyst's tools.



Being pulped and liquified without anaesthetic, then have my consciousness transferred into a mechanical shell over which I have no conscious control to be enslaved for all eternity to the whims of a demented starchild...

That pretty much sounds like Hell to me.  How is destroy not an act of mercy?

#131
Ieldra

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Gyroscopic_Trout wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...
Sorry, but the reapers are the kind of species that goes out shopping for fruit every Wednesday. They kill organic civiliaztions, that's what they were created to do.

Not, they're created for preserving something of the Reaperized species, possibly their collective minds (each of us is a nation). In any other respect, they're just the Catalyst's tools.



Being pulped and liquified without anaesthetic, then have my consciousness transferred into a mechanical shell over which I have no conscious control to be enslaved for all eternity to the whims of a demented starchild...

That pretty much sounds like Hell to me.  How is destroy not an act of mercy?

That's just an excuse. If you want to explore, choose Control and check. *Then* you can fly those Reapers who don't want to exist anymore in a black hole. Or chosse Synthesis and set them free. Maybe some will fly into the next star.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 avril 2012 - 03:22 .


#132
Anduin The Grey

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DJBare wrote...

Anduin The Grey wrote...
Are you trying to digress into a pro life/pro abortion thread?

No, I'm trying to work out why anyone would think that passing their gene pool onto the rest of the galactic community without their consent is a good thing.


I dunno, some would argue it's definitely worked for some in order to pass their genes on in humanity. I have no doubt that some cultures would accuse other cultures of promoting regimes of rape.

#133
ediskrad327

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Synthesis is freaking scary and horrible

#134
stysiaq

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Synthesis is a disgrace of all the writing in games, combined with the greeny circuits present on leaves if you foolishly choose it.
it is:
- cheesy
- dumb
- campy
- anti-climatic
- lazy (they just put a circuits layer on textures/eyes)
- full of fail
- illogical
- space magical (don't quote Clarke for once please)
- DUMBDUMBDUMBDUMB

#135
Cobra's_back

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Cpt. Howdy wrote...

Besides making no sense at all, it's pretty much the opposite of what Shepard has been fighting for all the time.



This.


I’m pretty sure this option should never have been submitted. No one sees the real threat of a crazy AI. Shepard is a great arbitrator. Shepard doesn’t go against free will or the natural evolution process. Shepard and team were pretty upset with what the reapers did to the Protheans. Shepard also didn’t care for the experiments to make creepers or TIM improvements made on his agents. It doesn’t fit Shepard’s profile to play God.
 
Maybe the only Shepard interested in this was one who failed the peace negotiations between Geth and Quarian, and even this is a stretch. It is plain it wasn’t well thought out. Players have no idea what really happen to organic and synthetic internally. This New DNA wasn’t explained at all. All we saw was green eyes. I also agree that natural evolution works just fine. Human genetic DNA changes can cause a host of new problems.

#136
wright1978

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The starbrat's version of synthesis is an abomination that would make life a pale mockery of its former self. Control is a dangerous gamble that i feel only a Shep who tries to sleep with Morinth would have the confidence to choose. That leaves destroy which is genocidal but the least worst of 3 terrible choices.

#137
M Hedonist

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Ieldra2 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Destroy was never the goal of my Shepard. I always wanted to preserve something of the Reapers if it was possible without succumbing to their indoctrination. If you remove the harvesting of advanced species, the Reapers are interesting. Why would I want to destroy them except for a misplaced notion of vengeance? They were under the control of the Catalyst, after all.


By your logic, the ****s would never have been put on trial in Nuremberg.
After all, it's just vengeance right?

I mean, Sovereign and Harbinger were totally reluctant in their roles weren't they?

The Reapers are not human and can't be judged by human notions of good or evil.

Are you proposing we get them into a mental institution?

Modifié par Sauruz, 23 avril 2012 - 03:28 .


#138
Anduin The Grey

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stysiaq wrote...

Synthesis is a disgrace of all the writing in games, combined with the greeny circuits present on leaves if you foolishly choose it.
it is:
- cheesy
- dumb
- campy
- anti-climatic
- lazy (they just put a circuits layer on textures/eyes)
- full of fail
- illogical
- space magical (don't quote Clarke for once please)
- DUMBDUMBDUMBDUMB


It's certainly different, so was the lack of boss ending. How many flops became cult classics 20 years later? We'll only know then.

#139
DJBare

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Ieldra2 wrote...

First, I don't give everyone Shepard's genes, that's just absurd. Also I don't subscribe to the notion of a genetic rewrite in the first place because "synthetics with DNA" is an oxymoron. Apart from that, yes, it *is* a forced change on the physical level, and yes, it is morally problematic, and yes, I can justify it given that nobody appears to lose their identity. More about than in this thread.


Catalyst: A new "DNA", a new frame work.
Call it oxymoron all you like because I agree that it is, but it's still the story.

You say that nobody appears to lose their identity, funny neither did the scientist in arrival until they decide to take Shepard prisoner, so in essence you based your decision on an "assumption" that everyone maintains their identity.

#140
Sal86

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Ieldra2 wrote...

Gyroscopic_Trout wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...
Sorry, but the reapers are the kind of species that goes out shopping for fruit every Wednesday. They kill organic civiliaztions, that's what they were created to do.

Not, they're created for preserving something of the Reaperized species, possibly their collective minds (each of us is a nation). In any other respect, they're just the Catalyst's tools.



Being pulped and liquified without anaesthetic, then have my consciousness transferred into a mechanical shell over which I have no conscious control to be enslaved for all eternity to the whims of a demented starchild...

That pretty much sounds like Hell to me.  How is destroy not an act of mercy?

That's just an excuse. If you want to explore, choose Control and check. *Then* you can fly those Reapers who don't want to exist anymore in a black hole. Or chosse Synthesis and set them free. Maybe some will fly into the next star.


Well, that's 'just an excuse' for the control ending. We haven't even established that Shepard has that level of control over the reapers, never mind that he would any form of communication with them beyond what simple control he does apparently have. We don't even really know what he turns into when he dies, if anything.

Who says synthesis sets them free?

#141
The Angry One

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Ieldra2 wrote...

First, I don't give everyone Shepard's genes, that's just absurd. Also I don't subscribe to the notion of a genetic rewrite in the first place because "synthetics with DNA" is an oxymoron. Apart from that, yes, it *is* a forced change on the physical level, and yes, it is morally problematic, and yes, I can justify it given that nobody appears to lose significant parts of their identity. More about than in this thread.


Alright, how do you know this? Joker? Joker seems okay with "interfacing" with machines either way.
And if we're judging by Joker then we see that nobody got any benefits aside from glowing eyes and green lines everywhere, so what's the point?

So, where do we see how people haven't been negatively affected? What about the population at large? What about the Geth? Oh you mean because Stargazer and his moron grandson still say the same dialog? Whoopdeedoo, 10,000 years later a drunk old man still talks rubbish synthesis or not. HOORAY.

#142
Cypher_CS

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 I'm really trying to get it, but I can't seem to be able to.
Guys, the whole game is about the Journey.Each player made his own choices throughout the game.So comments like nycmode75's "seemed to directly contradict whatever Shepard was fighting for the whole time" seem rather moot, since that's what HIS Shepard was fighting for.That's what nycmode75 got from the story. That's his own point of view, his own experience coloring his view. His own choices.
The Catalyst doesn't tell you which to pick, he gives you three choices. It's up to YOU, the player, to pick which choice sits the best with your developed Shepard.Have you been constantly Anti Geth, throughout the games? Or maybe you're just the ultimate Renegade, the baddest ass Nay Sayer? Then you'd probably pick Destruction (I'm just throwing off the top of my head), just to watch things blow up!Have you put your trust into TIM or gave him the Collectors' Base or feel megalomaniac enough to think you can control them? Then you'd pick Control.Have you tried to make peace with everyone? Got the Geth and Quarians fully cooperating? Tried to walk the middle ground and actually believe that this can all work well together? Pick Synth.
Yes, the "just pick one" sort of "game play" is quite underwhelming.But those who immersed themselves in the lore and developed story and empathize with Shepard, will probably want to choose the path best suited for their developed character.
What I mean by underwhelming in regards to the "Pick one" thing, is that even though on your first playthrough you'd probably want to pick the one best suited for you, the other options are just a Post Cerberus Base save away.It does kinda take the edge off of it. You don't need to replay the whole thing to pick the other things, just restart the last mission.
But overall, the major three options are quite fitting.

You guys can say the option is absurt or unrealistic or disgusting.
Maybe so, but it's a choice.
And it's not without precendence in the game.
The Geth/Quarian cooperation gives some small inklings into that "possibility", if you took to Tali after that whole endeavor and she tells you about how the Geth are helping the Quarians with their immune system, by residing in their enviro-suits.
That coupled with the fact that pretty much everyone in the ME universe has some sort of implant or another (from Biotics to Omnitools to prosthetics and so on...), there is indeed some direction there.
Only major problem is, again, the abruptness it happens with. Or the immediacy.

#143
Ieldra

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DJBare wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

First, I don't give everyone Shepard's genes, that's just absurd. Also I don't subscribe to the notion of a genetic rewrite in the first place because "synthetics with DNA" is an oxymoron. Apart from that, yes, it *is* a forced change on the physical level, and yes, it is morally problematic, and yes, I can justify it given that nobody appears to lose their identity. More about than in this thread.


Catalyst: A new "DNA", a new frame work.
Call it oxymoron all you like because I agree that it is, but it's still the story.

You say that nobody appears to lose their identity, funny neither did the scientist in arrival until they decide to take Shepard prisoner, so in essence you based your decision on an "assumption" that everyone maintains their identity.

What about Joker and EDI?

#144
xefiroEA

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The problem to me, beyond the actual way it is implemented, is that it is proposed as the solution to the 'fundamental problem' that synthetics will eventually wipe out all organics. Beyond the validity of the fundamental problem in the first place, which one may not agree with, the solution goes against the morality of the game so far.

Where the game always defended strength through diversity, we are being asked to agree to peace though homogenization. Since these two kinds can't coexist, let's make everyone the same. This way of reasoning is what is the problem.

Aside of that, Synthesis itself is a worthwhile goal to strive for, and to reach when we are ready for it. It shouldn't be forced on a galaxy that isn't ready for it.

#145
Ieldra

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Ah....the voice of reason. Many thanks. Indeed, it was never my Shepard's goal to destroy the Reapers, that's what makes the "Destroy is the only option" people so disgusting to me.

Cypher_CS wrote...
I'm really trying to get it, but I can't seem to be able to.
Guys, the whole game is about the Journey.Each player made his own choices throughout the game.So comments like nycmode75's "seemed to directly contradict whatever Shepard was fighting for the whole time" seem rather moot, since that's what HIS Shepard was fighting for.That's what nycmode75 got from the story. That's his own point of view, his own experience coloring his view. His own choices.

The Catalyst doesn't tell you which to pick, he gives you three choices. It's up to YOU, the player, to pick which choice sits the best with your developed Shepard.Have you been constantly Anti Geth, throughout the games? Or maybe you're just the ultimate Renegade, the baddest ass Nay Sayer? Then you'd probably pick Destruction (I'm just throwing off the top of my head), just to watch things blow up!Have you put your trust into TIM or gave him the Collectors' Base or feel megalomaniac enough to think you can control them? Then you'd pick Control.Have you tried to make peace with everyone? Got the Geth and Quarians fully cooperating? Tried to walk the middle ground and actually believe that this can all work well together? Pick Synth.

Yes, the "just pick one" sort of "game play" is quite underwhelming.But those who immersed themselves in the lore and developed story and empathize with Shepard, will probably want to choose the path best suited for their developed character.

What I mean by underwhelming in regards to the "Pick one" thing, is that even though on your first playthrough you'd probably want to pick the one best suited for you, the other options are just a Post Cerberus Base save away.It does kinda take the edge off of it. You don't need to replay the whole thing to pick the other things, just restart the last mission.

But overall, the major three options are quite fitting.

You guys can say the option is absurt or unrealistic or disgusting.
Maybe so, but it's a choice.
And it's not without precendence in the game.

The Geth/Quarian cooperation gives some small inklings into that "possibility", if you took to Tali after that whole endeavor and she tells you about how the Geth are helping the Quarians with their immune system, by residing in their enviro-suits.

That coupled with the fact that pretty much everyone in the ME universe has some sort of implant or another (from Biotics to Omnitools to prosthetics and so on...), there is indeed some direction there.
Only major problem is, again, the abruptness it happens with. Or the immediacy.


Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 avril 2012 - 03:29 .


#146
Anduin The Grey

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Ieldra2 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

First, I don't give everyone Shepard's genes, that's just absurd. Also I don't subscribe to the notion of a genetic rewrite in the first place because "synthetics with DNA" is an oxymoron. Apart from that, yes, it *is* a forced change on the physical level, and yes, it is morally problematic, and yes, I can justify it given that nobody appears to lose their identity. More about than in this thread.


Catalyst: A new "DNA", a new frame work.
Call it oxymoron all you like because I agree that it is, but it's still the story.

You say that nobody appears to lose their identity, funny neither did the scientist in arrival until they decide to take Shepard prisoner, so in essence you based your decision on an "assumption" that everyone maintains their identity.

What about Joker and EDI?


I still wanna know about the possibilty of a romance option with Geth :P

#147
The Angry One

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Ieldra2 wrote...

What about Joker and EDI?


Okay, really. What about them? What do we see in 10 seconds that tells us whether they've been changed or not?
How does that change that synthesis is what the Reapers want?

Then again you seem to be okay with war criminals winning so nevermind.

#148
DJBare

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Ieldra2 wrote...
What about Joker and EDI?

What about them?, oh you mean an organic and a synthetic coming together?, yes by their own choice while retaining their individuality.

#149
Siansonea

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I would not appreciate having my DNA rewritten without my consent.

I probably would not want my DNA rewritten if it meant I would become some kind of hybrid being. I wouldn't necessarily be "me" anymore.

And how does that work with pure synthetic creatures like EDI and the geth? How do they get "rewritten" to become a synthesis of organic and synthetic life? Really, the idea is absurd, and only an armchair philosopher would think it was a profound idea or a "best ending" scenario. Really, whoever came up with the Synthesis idea is not as smart as he thinks he is.

Not to mention, the idea of Joker and EDI being the new Adam and Eve smacks of adolescent male fantasy. Can't handle a real woman? How about a sex robot who just wants to take care of your every need? ::flips table::

#150
matthewmi

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Ieldra2 wrote...

Darth Asriel wrote...
Destroy is the only real ending. It was always the goal. Why waver at the finish line? It sucks about EDI and the Geth, but trillions of lives are at stake. And what about justice for all those who died at the Reaper's hands in the countless cycles before? The only safe course of action is to destroy the reapers.

Destroy was never the goal of my Shepard. I always wanted to preserve something of the Reapers if it was possible without succumbing to their indoctrination. If you remove the harvesting of advanced species, the Reapers are interesting. Why would I want to destroy them except for a misplaced notion of vengeance? They were under the control of the Catalyst, after all.

I find Control and Synthesis both acceptable choices. Destroy? Never.


Vengeance isn't always misplaced.  The reapers deserve to be destroyed, what is interesting about them?  They come every 50k years or so kill all advanced civilizations, then go back to darkspace and go to sleep, don't think they sit around debating things, and there seems to be no freedom of choice as a reaper otherwise wouldn't  eventually based of probability one of them decide hey reaping just ain't cool.