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6 Things Bioware Need To Do To Save Dragon Age III


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#26
HighMoon

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A few things I want..

More party customisation.. I want to be able to put clothes and armor on my companions again, like DAO. Also on this note.. Give us more casual clothes to wear. Maybe at least as many as Skyrim has (but hopefully not as dirty/ ugly).

Let us not have a weapon equipped.. In Origins this was possible, but in DA2 my Hawke always had a staff. -_-

Maybe bring back origins as well.. I bet you could come up with some exciting new ideas here Bioware, I know I can.

Deeper romances.. And better sex scenes. :S

Bring the camera closer to the main character..

#27
Commander Michael

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I don't have high hopes for DA3, not after DA2 (Which was a terrible sequel which did almost everything wrong and did only a few things right) or after ME3 ending (can be remedied whenever the Extended Cut is coming out... Not having high hopes for that one either).

I think it's safe to say that we CAN'T expect the same level of quality (even with its flaws) that Origins had, as EA would never allow BioWare more time to create a game than 1-3 years. You don't make a good RPG in 1-3 years, BioWare...

If they want to save DA3, they just have to do some REALLY, REALLY simple stuff.

1. The combat animations that were in DA2. I seriously still can't believe how they thought it'd be a good idea to have people swinging two-handed hammers with one hand with incredible speed. Oh, and Fenris... What the...? Everything was so out of place for a Dragon Age game... They could've easily sped up the combat without making hilarious animations that take away ALL IMMERSION (immersion is a big part of an RPG, BioWare...)

2. Customization. No origin stories, not even ones that Mass Effect had.
You can't equip armor on your party members. In a RPG... ? They should've atleast added something everytime you upgraded the armor!

3. Story and characters. Varric was the only character who had a personality / depth. Everyone else was just... sorry, I can't remember anyone else... Even the main character was BORING... Can't remember his/her name... Eagle?

The story was full of plotholes and if you are an immersionist player (like myself), you CAN'T play as a mage because it makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER how the people react to you.

Act 2 was BY FAR the best act. The 3rd one made me want to cry. In a bad way. I can't remember what happened in the 1st one... something with the deeproads.

4. choices that actually matter. Can't get into specifics as no spoilers allowed, but I think it's pretty self-explanatory.

5. a good voice actor...? This is a matter of opinion, but I personally thought male Eagle's voice sucked. No emotion or passion whatsoever. Even better, don't have a voice actor and give us a ****load of text. Seriously, even if it gives the illusion of choice, it still helps ME to construct my character to a certain personality.

6. Repeat step 1.

I'm very tired while writing this, so some of my points might be a bit... off?

#28
DaneWolf

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It needs to be RPG more than a Action rpg. It should have the old inventory system and origins. And multible races... I don't care if the main char is voiced over as long as they can do it for elves dwarfs AND humans alike so I can choose wich race I want! I want to give my Blood dragon armor to my warrior in the group... I can't use it when I play a rogue. And I want a Warrior NPC I acturally like... Instead of Aveline the Just and Fenris the Borring!

Thats about it!

#29
Joy Divison

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RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

#5 I agree with. #1 is dead wrong. #6 carries the promise of a snooze festival. Seriously, if games like DAO are so popular, where are all the clones? There aren't any.


www.vgchartz.com/article/88459/skyrim-sales-exceed-34-million-units-in-two-days/

#30
Unknown_Warrior

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Joy Divison wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

#5 I agree with. #1 is dead wrong. #6 carries the promise of a snooze festival. Seriously, if games like DAO are so popular, where are all the clones? There aren't any.


www.vgchartz.com/article/88459/skyrim-sales-exceed-34-million-units-in-two-days/


Skyrim is an entirely different type of RPG. There are absolutely no meaningful choices action/consequence or character definement in Skyrim compared to the DA series. Skyrim also emphasises exploration, whereas DA emphasises characterisation.

#31
Fishy

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There some thing I want to adress . Because I still remember the talk everyone had after the release of Origin. I was  most active back in the day in the forum and had a lot of criticism about the game.(Origin)

It's true that we could change our companions equipement. But my hero and my companions ended up anyway always using the same equipement. I knew people who played the entire game with their DLC stuff  they acquired at the beginning because it's was better than 90 % of what the game would give you during your playthrough . There was not many different type of skin either. Leather armor looked awful and outside of 3-4 set of plate armor there was not much to see..

 Don't get me started on their mage pointy hat.

Origins was far from being perfect in that departement. They changed a lot of stuff in ME2 and Dragon Age 2.  Not every studio can take 10 years to develop a game. I understand why they did what they did. I understand that many people hated the change but Origins was not that deep in that departement.  You need to go back and remember why they did what they did. People have short memory or you're just following the  wagon without putting too much effort into researching.


Because in the end ..They wanted to give proper Aesthethic to each of your companions. They realized that most people anyway would keep  Morrigan dressed the same during the entire game. Because most if not all equipement were not designed to fit her body and personality.

I think it's deinstituated  her of her personality (Morrigan) when you can just dress her with plate armor.. She's Morrigan the Mage even if you want to make her look like a tank. Let's be honest. Morrigan with a Full Plate armor looked ridiculous. Especialy when she started to talk about magery.

Origins had so much useless loot. You sold everything to purchase that 100 gold piece armor that looked like every other piece of armor  but with better stat. Or you kept  that newb armor because all the 3 other you could use were bad. Just like I never used any mage hat . They all looked the same with different stat and all of them were awful.

Origin was far from being perfect . The combat was strategic but slow and lacking that 'visceral' aspect some of us love. It's worked with sprites model but it's look stupid  with today technology.

They did a lot of mistake in DA2 ... But some of them were good idea.

Modifié par Suprez30, 26 avril 2012 - 12:07 .


#32
Countess Cutlass

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Unknown_Warrior wrote...

Skyrim is an entirely different type of RPG. There are absolutely no meaningful choices action/consequence or character definement in Skyrim compared to the DA series. Skyrim also emphasises exploration, whereas DA emphasises characterisation.


THANK YOU.  It's so annoying when people try to compare DA:O and other Bioware RPGs to things like Skyrim and Fallout: New Vegas.  They are totally different, considering that Skyrim doesn't have the level of characterization as DA:O does.  Skyrim is a sandbox exploration RPG with minimal immersion and emotional impact; you play to kill stuff and dungeon raid.  Bioware RPGs are more character and story-driven.  Totally different animals.

My own opinion, but I really hope that Dragon Age doesn't turn into Skyrim Part 2.  I enjoy exploring in Skyrim, but it doesn't impact me as emotionally -- and I certainly don't get nearly as invested in the story or characters -- as the Dragon Age and Mass Effect games do.

Modifié par Countess Cutlass, 26 avril 2012 - 12:36 .


#33
Joy Divison

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Unknown_Warrior wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

#5 I agree with. #1 is dead wrong. #6 carries the promise of a snooze festival. Seriously, if games like DAO are so popular, where are all the clones? There aren't any.


www.vgchartz.com/article/88459/skyrim-sales-exceed-34-million-units-in-two-days/


Skyrim is an entirely different type of RPG. There are absolutely no meaningful choices action/consequence or character definement in Skyrim compared to the DA series. Skyrim also emphasises exploration, whereas DA emphasises characterisation.


Leaving aside your incorrect characterization of Skyrim having no meaningful choices or character definement (and what again is DA2's meaningful choices?), you are admitting it is in fact an RPG which didn't chase Mass Effect and thus undermines the response I was quoting, right?

Modifié par Joy Divison, 26 avril 2012 - 01:07 .


#34
Sacred_Fantasy

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Suprez30 wrote...
It's true that we could change our companions equipement. But my hero and my companions ended up anyway always using the same equipement. I knew people who played the entire game with their DLC stuff  they acquired at the beginning because it's was better than 90 % of what the game would give you during your playthrough . There was not many different type of skin either. Leather armor looked awful and outside of 3-4 set of plate armor there was not much to see..

That is why I play on PC. I could easily get variety of amor and weapon for aesthetic and stat from modding community. Therefore I don't have such issue in DAO ( I do have such issue in DA 2 because support for toolset is limited ) Beside, I'm a lousy joystick or gamepad controller anyway. I bump into wall all the time trying to move forward. But that just me.

 

Suprez30 wrote...

Origins was far from being perfect in that departement. They changed a lot of stuff in ME2 and Dragon Age 2.  Not every studio can take 10 years to develop a game. I understand why they did what they did. I understand that many people hated the change but Origins was not that deep in that departement.  You need to go back and remember why they did what they did. People have short memory or you're just following the  wagon without putting too much effort into researching.

I remember Origins, Morrigan, my Character and my enjoyment. I don't remember Mass Effect 2's dialogue wheel, limited interaction with the companions over the course of 10 years, paraphrasing, autodialogue etc...


Suprez30 wrote...


Because in the end ..They wanted to give proper Aesthethic to each of your companions. They realized that most people anyway would keep  Morrigan dressed the same during the entire game. Because most if not all equipement were not designed to fit her body and personality.

I think it's deinstituated  her of her personality (Morrigan) when you can just dress her with plate armor.. She's Morrigan the Mage even if you want to make her look like a tank. Let's be honest. Morrigan with a Full Plate armor looked ridiculous. Especialy when she started to talk about magery.

That's right. There is no issue with iconic look as long as it fit the character. There is issue when developer try to force iconic look on players.


Suprez30 wrote...


Origins had so much useless loot. You sold everything to purchase that 100 gold piece armor that looked like every other piece of armor  but with better stat. Or you kept  that newb armor because all the 3 other you could use were bad. Just like I never used any mage hat . They all looked the same with different stat and all of them were awful.

They are useless to you. They are valuable to me. I keep them to make potion and traps. I don't keep DA 2's junk. I don't keep useless armor in DA 2. That's why I could easily get 50 golds by just selling useless loot and armor in DA 2 even without completing all those fedex quests. 


Suprez30 wrote...



Origin was far from being perfect . The combat was strategic but slow and lacking that 'visceral' aspect some of us love. It's worked with sprites model but it's look stupid  with today technology.

I play strategy games more than I play RPG. My main preferred game is strategy games. In strategy games, viceral aspect is not important.  If it is, Sid Meir Civilization wouldn't have sold that many copies back then in the late 90s.  


Suprez30 wrote...




They did a lot of mistake in DA2 ... But some of them were good idea.

A good idea with poor execution and limited time to develop couldn't save it from massive backlash. I hope BioWare could learn something from this.

#35
seraphymon

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Suprez30 wrote...

There some thing I want to adress . Because I still remember the talk everyone had after the release of Origin. I was  most active back in the day in the forum and had a lot of criticism about the game.(Origin)

It's true that we could change our companions equipement. But my hero and my companions ended up anyway always using the same equipement. I knew people who played the entire game with their DLC stuff  they acquired at the beginning because it's was better than 90 % of what the game would give you during your playthrough . There was not many different type of skin either. Leather armor looked awful and outside of 3-4 set of plate armor there was not much to see..


You mean like how in DA2, not only was the armor shaped the same, even the color was the same, only a very few amount, were different, which mostly was the champions and DLC. and speaking of DLC, it gave companions most of their accesories needs for most of the game, since they can wear it from lvl 1 up,  which further reduced customization.

Suprez30 wrote...
 Don't get me started on their mage pointy hat.

agreed it is ugly, however the problem is they just didnt give out much in terms of mage  apparel.

Suprez30 wrote...
Origins was far from being perfect in that departement. They changed a lot of stuff in ME2 and Dragon Age 2.  Not every studio can take 10 years to develop a game. I understand why they did what they did. I understand that many people hated the change but Origins was not that deep in that departement.  You need to go back and remember why they did what they did. People have short memory or you're just following the  wagon without putting too much effort into researching.
Because in the end ..They wanted to give proper Aesthethic to each of your companions. They realized that most people anyway would keep  Morrigan dressed the same during the entire game. Because most if not all equipement were not designed to fit her body and personality.
I think it's deinstituated  her of her personality (Morrigan) when you can just dress her with plate armor.. She's Morrigan the Mage even if you want to make her look like a tank. Let's be honest. Morrigan with a Full Plate armor looked ridiculous. Especialy when she started to talk about magery.


Giving unique armor to companions to fit their demeanor is all fine and dandy and i welcome it, i wished leliana had her unique armor from the trailer. Luckily modders did that. But taking away the customization fully in a sequel, i feel is always wrong, especially when you end up with tons of items you could never use. It doesnt matter if people keep her in her default armor. You cant judge what your cutomer is gonna do, and wether or not she looks ridiculou is up to each individual person. It doesnt affect anyones game except their own.


Suprez30 wrote...
Origins had so much useless loot. You sold everything to purchase that 100 gold piece armor that looked like every other piece of armor  but with better stat. Or you kept  that newb armor because all the 3 other you could use were bad. Just like I never used any mage hat . They all looked the same with different stat and all of them were awful.


Even though i didnt use alot what i gathered in DAO, doesnt make it useless. Each thing had a certain purpose, unlike DA2 where junk was junk, in which all you could do was sell, and it wasnt for much, in addiotion to all the armors you couldnt use, because you couldnt give them to companions.


Suprez30 wrote...
They did a lot of mistake in DA2 ... But some of them were good idea.


But sadly it isnt judged by ideas, but by execution.

Modifié par seraphymon, 26 avril 2012 - 10:12 .


#36
FieryDove

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Suprez30 wrote...

I think it's deinstituated  her of her personality (Morrigan) when you can just dress her with plate armor.. She's Morrigan the Mage even if you want to make her look like a tank. Let's be honest. Morrigan with a Full Plate armor looked ridiculous. Especialy when she started to talk about magery.


I disagree completely. Why would it matter to you if I put Morrigan in plate? In an RPG sense I could say I was best buddies with her and convinced her to become an AW to be more powerful and have better survival. She was all about power and survival. No? Yes?

Suprez30 wrote...

Origins had so much useless loot. You sold everything to purchase that 100 gold piece armor that looked like every other piece of armor  but with better stat. Or you kept  that newb armor because all the 3 other you could use were bad. Just like I never used any mage hat . They all looked the same with different stat and all of them were awful.


This is...a bit silly maybe? How many times did I open shiny chests in d2 and get nothing but rusty spoons, torn trousers or moth eaten scarves? I couldn't even do anything but sell for a pittance! At least a good part of the *junk* in DAO could be used to make things...which I loved doing.

I don't like mage robes/hats in either game. (I want to wear pants!) I became an AW in DAO just to avoid that, didn't take any AW buffs/skills otherwise. (It was too OP) But then mages always were anyhow so its kinda moot.

I didn't have all the companions looking the same in DAO every run, unlike you it appears. I switched things up constantly and it was fun having the *option* to do so. Lel in medium/heavy armor and tankish this time? Light and archer next time, same with all the others. Even Sten and Oggy became xbow archers several times and it was FUN. (For me)

I also liked origins combat except 2-handers which were too slow for my tastes.

I did like the improved 2-hander combat in Da2 but again it didn't feel finished. 2-handers auto-attack far too much as all the cooldowns wait to pop and it needed more refinement/abilites that were not passive. I didn't enjoy S&B in Da2 but loved them in DAO so that seemed sort of a draw on improvements ...to me.

Anyway arguing each others opinons gets no one...no where fast. Some things were improved, some were not. It's all subjective and we leave BW to wade through it all. (Sportsmans guide has a sale on waders btw)  Image IPB

Modifié par FieryDove, 26 avril 2012 - 02:33 .


#37
DA-Odium

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I think that they should realize that they alienated the core RPG fans with the action focus of DA2. At least half of Dragon Age audience is made of people that appreciate that tactical aspect of the game. Truth be told this is also the half that is less likely to mold their expectations. The other half is made up of players that want to have a good time and don't find it a necessity in finishing the game or optimizing their party or build. Most of the latter, even though they preferred DA2 are not adamant against they way DA:O was. Why is this happening? Because there is a scarcity of quality tactical RPGs out there, while there is an abundance of action packed games to chose from (I might be wrong but even Mass Effect might be a natural action RPG so if you want you can make one tactical and one action).

I find myself in the category of the tactical RPG players and in my opinion the following have to be changed:

Things the should change and they agreed to already:
-bigger world to explore; ideally one nation and not one city
-not to reuse the environments
-customization of playing characters: to be able to equip them with armor.
-more unique visual appearance of characters

Things they should change and not already agreed:
-come back to a tactical view of the party
-go back to a more D&D mechanics
-characters should be better designed (memorable characters: Morrigan, Alistair, Varric, Leliana, Loghain, Flemeth)
-I don't care too much about the voice vs non-voiced protagonist but I must say that I would rather it be voiced
-pay attention to logical inconsistencies that cross the boundary and spoil the immersion: for example mages are scared and hide everywhere while in your party there are a few of them casting spells in front of templars and on top of that they are also blood mages; some characters despise the mages or the templars and are really zealots in that respect yet they could follow you; you can turn into blood mage yet you suffer no consequence for it (you can make blood magic spells really powerful but after a while of using spells you lose some of your attributes for good);
-make romances more difficult to achieve
-i would like for you to include in some way the window that was present in older games you produced and showed a history of the events while fighting (miss, amount of damage, critical hits occurrences)
-bring back the character report while in your party (amount of damage relative to the total party damage etc)
-bring more encounters with highly intelligent dragon shapeshifters like Flemeth or Firkraag from BG2
-make the visual design of weapons, armor, opponents etc less exaggerated and more natural
-renounce at the artificial FedEx quest where you find something and return it to someone for gold; also please bring back the logical quests alla Baldur's Gate2 and IceWind Dale2 where for example a door does not open if you don't put some switches in a particular pattern etc.
-please don't put overpowered equipment in DLC content (major DLC content; you can have for example overpowered sets in a standalone DLC for people that want these things); I find myself despising DLC equipment because sometimes it is so powerful that it destroys balance; also do not use a different color for it since it makes it seem like from another world, simply use the same color as for the vanilla version (for normal, rare, unique).

Modifié par DA-Odium, 26 avril 2012 - 09:32 .


#38
adi4444

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thnx for the post i agree with it :)
and also i realy hope they will change the ugly!!!!! user interface of da2